I just popped my first Ergomax...

[Zero Tolerance]

Well, here I go again. I've been back to the gym for about a month now after two 6-month long, back to back layoffs due to shoulder injuries. Unfortunatly, I can not continue to be AS serious as I used to be about training. No more bench presses, no more shoulder presses, no more Arnold presses, and a few other things - all history. But, I'm going to make the best with what I can.

So, about 2 hours ago, I popped my first Ergomax along with NGorge about 30 minutes afterwards, then started training. Tonight was back and biceps.. I had a wonderful placebo effect and went heavier on everything with perfect form. That's always very nice...

Here are my questions.. What are my best options to stack with out of the following (that I have): Nordiol, 4AD (my prostate doesn't like 4AD very much), Prostanozol, Superdrol (ahh, probably not), Finigenx (the original), M4OHN, 5AA (don't think my prostate will like that either).. I have a few more but I forget what they are.. Oh, I have Max LMG as well...

What PCT is most-recommended for this type of cycle (I have everything I need)? What nutrients do you take along with Ergomax (and whatever else I may stack with it)? I have all the basics.. And what does a good cycle look like? I know there are a few examples out there but if I can get the latest and greatest answers to these questions, I'd really appreciate it..

Thanks for reading.....

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Well.. As an FYI. I'm probably going to stack the Ergomax with Finigenx. I'm following the procedure noted by NP:

Take 3mls three times per day at least 6-8 hours apart for the first 2 weeks. Increase to 6mls three times per day 6-8 hours apart for 6 weeks. Finish off the cycle with the original 3mls 3 times per day 6-8 hours apart.

If anyone has any further advice, please let me know..

Thanks...

 

[Sir Savage]

You could also try something like E Max with Max, 4-AD, and maybe Pros. if your prostate could handle it. That would be quite a stack, I would imagine.

 

[Zero Tolerance]

My prostate blows... Even on a Nordiol/4AD cycle, I felt bloating after just 3 or 4 days.. I don't think taking Ergomax and Finigenx is very popular.. I hope that's not for a reason...

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Ahh.. I just realized I only have 3 120mg bottles of Finigenx.. I'm going to have to buy another bottle or two.. Should I go ahead and do that or use something else in my arsenal?

 

[Sir Savage]

For some reason, I'm drawing a blank with Finigenx.

But you could stack it with Max LMG or Pros. Maybe both.

 

[Pioneer]

yeah i think its fine to use fini, ive read about great strength gains with it. diplomats used it and loves that ****. go look for his logs and you'll see how well the stuff works.

id say if you have it run it.

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Thank you very much for the replies.. Is it okay to take both of these (Ergomax and Finigenx) at the same time? Or should I separate the dosages. I was thinking one Ergomax around 9am and another around 9pm - and Finigenx around 9am, 3pm and 9pm...

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Ahh.. I just took my first dosage of Finigenx.. Tasty stuff.. I took 3ml... I'm really crossing my fingers that my shoulders don't give out any time soon.. I'm probably not going to go "all out" with the weights, unfortunately... So, I hope I get something out of this...

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Oh, by the way. Here are the results of my bloodtest (taken pre-cycle):

Total Cholesterol: 209
Triglycerides: 247
HDL: 48.8
LDL: 111
Hemo ALC (?): 5.8
Glucose: 97

My diet was very bad and I was very lethargic for a period before this test. So, I think my numbers are normally better than this.. But, there it is.. I'll have my bloodwork done again after my little cycle...

 

[Sir Savage]

Oh, Finigenx. I remember it now. Looks like interesting stuff.

Now you've got me interested. I'm going to be doing a Phera-Plex cycle soon and now I might add some Finigenx.

BTW, did they change the formula at some point?

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Yes, the formula was changed but now it appears to be back to normal.. There are some discussions here about it - somewhere.. Something to do with the 19-Nor...

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Okay. "Magnum" is: 19-norandrosta-4 9-diene-3, 17-dione: 25mg
Non-"Magnum" is: Estra-4,9-diene-3,17-dione 25mg

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Just another note. I'll be using Rebound XT, Activate and Fenugreek for PCT unless anyone feels I should be using something more powerful. I do have several options available...

It would be nice to get some input from a few more people... Thoughts, suggestions, constructive criticism.....

 

[delta314]

Isn't PP the same as e-Max LMG? I thought they both were 10mg parabolix. Anybody stacked e-Max and SD? I have seen where some have done split cycles. Would that be better than a 8 week cycle of one or the other? Sorry for so many questions, but you can't learn without asking...
I just finished week 4 of e-Max. Gained about 12lbs. Eating like a horse. I'm also a little bloated, but strength is up and pumps are great. Doing a scoop of NO Xplode on an empty stomach before hitting the gym at 5am each morning. Starting to look forward to PCT and getting my abs back...

 

[Zero Tolerance]

I'm pretty sure there's on extra ingredient in PP that makes it different.. It's been discussed before. Try a search. I'm not positive about it myself..

I tried N'Gorge two nights ago. I had a slight headache yesterday morning, so I took a half dose. By the afternoon, my head was exploding.. I'd read that NO2 can cause headaches so I'm staying away from it for a little while. I should probably just use it after I'm "off"...

 

[Grassroots082]

Be careful on that prostate, I don't think (from my experience) that it is too kind at all and if you had problems with 4AD then it is very possible you will with Ergo. Hey man if your having problems with your shoulders try the DC stretching routine and try the 12-15 rep range using the 1 second concentric and 3 second eccentric (thanks to B5150).

My PCT w/ Max and Ergomax was pretty rough, maybe that was attributed to Ultra HOT but man I was shutdown hard. Ill use Clomid and Nolva in all my PCT's from now on and really look forward to trying Activate.

 

[Zero Tolerance]

My prostate is okay so far (only 2 days).. My shoulder is a bad sitaution, though. I don't think stretches (or anything for that matter) is going to help. I think I have a unique problem: Severely laterally downsloping acromion (contributing to impingement)...

 

[zed]

I would take something for your Total Cholesterol: 209 which is a little high.( if your are not already) Cissus Rx helped me and others alot with shoulder conditions, may be worth a shot.

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Thanks. I do have some Cissus and I might give it a try. It seems my issue is from bones scraping against one another. What do you think Cissus can do? It would be great if it had some kind of positive affect...

On another note, my prostate started feeling a little iffy yesterday.. I started taking Beta Sitosterol and Saw Palmetto and I'm skipping my Ergomax this morning.. I'm still taking the Finigenx. If I feel okay, I'll add the Ergomax back this evening and see what happens...

 

[SOWarrior]

What does an iffy prostate feel like? Just wondering?

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Bloating, primarily. Uncomfortable to sit (which I do all day). Even uncomfortable to walk. Urination a bit restricted...

 

[zed]

Cissus works gradually stregthens bones and tendons, it has angeleslic properties as well. I think it would be a great addition to your stack due to your pre condition plus the strength increase you will have which may cause further stress on your shoulder when working out other area that indirectly work the shoulder.

Are you taking anything for Cholesterol? 209 is a little high and additional androgens will only increase that number. Niacin, garlic, red yeast rice all are good, easy to get additions.

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Another FYI. I'm having a little less prostate trouble after using the Saw Palmetto and Beta Sitosterol. Maybe it's just a placebo affect, but that's good enough for me. It's not perfect, but an improvement. Let's see how I feel tomorrow...

 

[Zero Tolerance]

I've been reading here about how PP is a lot like Ergo with less Androgenic side effects.. I just purchased two bottles of PP and even though I'm doing better as far as my prostate in concerned (the Saw Palmetto and Beto Sitosterol are helping) - I still have a tiny bit of discomfort. I'm curious about whether or not PP will have even less effect on my prostate. Would it be okay to switch right now since both Ergo and PP are relatively similar?

Thanks in advance...

 

[Zero Tolerance]

I haven't been going as heavy as I'd like, but I've been training consistently. I earned a few new stretchmarks tonight - or atleast I only noticed them tonight - after doing chest and triceps. My triceps exploded all over the gym.

Otherwise.. What do new stretchmarks actually mean? A bigger pump than usual? I'm guessing that's the case because I really didn't notice these new marks last week...

 

[Zero Tolerance]

One other question.. I'm feeling soreness inbetween my pecs and shoulders.. It's not too bad when I'm actually lifting - the discomfort is mostly afterwards.. Sort of like a burning/sore feeling.. Can something like this be attributed to the Ergomax or FiniGenX?

 

[Sir Savage]

I think Pat Arnold said ErgoMax is about 70% DMT (Phera-Plex) and 30% of an isomer. Both E Max and PP will probably have fairly similar effects on your prostate.

The stretch marks probably just mean you're growing. I got some near my underarms the first time I did One+.

 

[3clipseGT]

From what DS AX and SNS have said, PP is all the B isomer while E max LMG is a mix between the A and B isomer. This makes PP much stronger then E max LMG but E max is stil a good product.

PP is either all of the A or all of the B whichever one of those is stronger, im pretty sure its the B though.

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Interesting...

Hey all. I thought I'd make mention of how I'm doing. I'm on my 9th day and I've gained 6lbs. I'm getting 14 reps with what I struggled to get 4 with a week ago. Remember that I can't go too heavy because of my shoulder handicap. I'm responding pretty well. I haven't done as AAS cycle in over 10 years...

I'm taking a small dose of FiniGenx at 9am; a dose of Ergomax at 10am; another small dose of FiniGenx at 4pm; a dose of Ergomax at 10pm; and a small dose of FiniGenx at 11pm. I'm also taking CEE daily.

I'm feeling that the late doses will help the healing while I'm asleep. What I find very strange is how I have an extremely full, full-body pump when I wake up in the morning. It's like I just got out of the gym and had an amazing workout.

Is this normal? I don't remember anything like this with Deca, Sustanon, Dianabol, Andriol or Finiplex (which I took wrong anyway)...

 

[Yjyankee]

I think Pat Arnold said ErgoMax is about 70% DMT (Phera-Plex) and 30% of an isomer. Both E Max and PP will probably have fairly similar effects on your prostate.

The stretch marks probably just mean you're growing. I got some near my underarms the first time I did One+.

One+... I loved that stuff! wish I had more. My best gains yet!

Hey Zero, great log! I have a bottle of the Ergo waiting for Feb 1st.

 

[Sir Savage]

Yeah, One+ was the shizzle. Stuff made you blow up.

I agree, this is a great log. So much so that I think I've decided to take FiniGenx with my Phera-Plex when I start in a week or two...

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Thanks. I didn't even mean for this to be a log but I suppose it's "something" of a log.. If any moderators see this, could you please rename my topic to Ergomax LMG / FiniGenx MiniLog?

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Man, I had a wierd workout. Tonight was back and bis.. My whole back had a ridiculous pump. One of my lats shot out and hit somebody in the back of the head. He jumped up, turned around, looked at me for a second, and then acted like nothing happened..

Anyway, I think I'm experiencing the "back pump" people on SD talk about. It must be.. It was intense, and it screwed-up the second half of my back workout and the first half of my bicep workout.

I have to admit my head got a little bigger before the gym tonight. Somebody was telling me how big I looked and that psyched me up. I worked out hard enough to feel naseaus and I was on the verge of getting a headache. I wonder if my blood pressure is going up. It's normally considered "low" - so I figure I have something to work with.. Maybe I'll start with some of the blood pressure supps right now. I didn't think I'd have to bother but I'm guessing I experienced a little high blood pressure this evening.. What do you think?

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Oh, P.S. My shoulders are always such a problem. That "discomfort" I'm feeling between my delts and pecs affected my curls today. Hammer curls were almost impossible - so I cut down from 3 or 4 sets to 2.. What the heck is this problem?

 

[Zero Tolerance]

I'm overwhelmed by all the feedback and help provided...

Anyway. I'm still at about 6lbs gained and I'm now on my 12th day in.. On Monday night, I up my FiniGenx to the recommended double dose that I'm taking now. My strength is still going up. I'm doing 14 reps with perfect form with weight I couldn't do more than 4 sloppy reps with two weeks ago.

I'd probably be gaining more weight if I could blast 6-8 heavy reps but my shoulders prevent me from doing that. Still, with the little bit I've gained, people are noticing. That's interesting. I'll probably be on this cycle for 8-10 weeks (6 for the Ergomax) and maybe I'll mix Prostanazol or something else toward the end (FiniGenx lasts 8-10 weeks).

I think this cycle is really helping me to stay in the gym. Normally, I have to struggle with the weights and I think that's where my problem is with injuries. Now that I can lift quite a bit of weight for a lot of reps and actually do it extremely cleanly with excellent form, I'm not running into any problems...

 

[Grunt76]

I'm sure a lot of people are reading your log with interest but don't want to clog it with useless non-advice and it's difficult to diagnose you by examining the computer screen.

No matter, I'll be my usual maverick of the message boards and suggest you add Cissus Rx because this injury could be anything from tendon to muscle to (who knows?) ligament related. Since it's only your 12th day of many, it might have time to get delivered to you before you reach halfway through...

Worth a try, IMO. The reviews are good.

 

[Zero Tolerance]

I do have Cissus. I'm a supplement freak and buy as much as I can as often as I can. It's a strange addition. Thank you for replying. When I did shoulders last night, the issue didn't really bother me. It's so strange. I'll start the Cissus, though...

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Nothing new as of late. I took a few much needed days of rest. It felt like a waste but then I felt much better in the gym last night. I did back and biceps, but took it easy on back - the last time my pump was just too much.. I'm still gaining strength - enough to do more weight with perfect form for high reps than I could do 4 cheating reps a few weeks ago...

 

[Grunt76]

It's good, man. You know, if you can't take a break during your cycle, then you sure as heck can't take one during PCT, so WHEN will you take a break?

I'd much rather take 2-3 days off while on cycle to avoid overtraining or a cold, than get sick in the first few days of PCT and have all my gains wiped off by 2 weeks sick...

Keep us posted on what the Cissus does if you're taking it.

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Thanks. I held off on the Cissus as I've modified my training a bit - and the three day rest has helped. I'm training chest and tris tonight so I'll post back on how things go. I've gained 8 or 9 pounds but I haven't been going crazy with calories. I don't want too much fat gain. I'm on my 17th day.

Something keeps telling me to switch from Ergomax LMG to my PP or SD right now.. I'm still doing the two doses of Ergomax per day as well as 6cc's of FiniGenx, three times daily...

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Maybe I'm just a big puss but I think I'm being smart.. I'm getting very strong but I'm not maxing out. Maybe that's the whole point of doing AAS - get stronger to lift more weight to get bigger - but I feel like I'll get hurt.

Just to report on sides, like I mentioned earlier, I was having some prostate issues but that's under control. My skin is VERY oily and I'm a sweat-machine - so I'm getting acne.. My "crown" area on my scalp looked a little thin before, but I'm probably just being paranoid. I didn't have any gel in my hair so I think that was it.. I'm not finding any hair in the shower or anywhere - but my hair is very short so I guess it would just go down the drain. I'm not worried, I think if it IS falling out, it'll grow back afterwards. I use Minoxidil with Azelaic (spelling?) Acid and topical Spironolactone 5% lotion...

I feel good. Sometimes I'm a little tired during the day. Lucky me, I get to nap. I think my stomach is getting bigger.. Bloated.. Another reason I can't eat too much - I gain weight very easily..

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Just a quick update. I've gained 10 pounds so far (tonight makes my third week). Keep in mind that I'm not lifting nearly as heavy as I can (I can't) and I'm not eating very much (don't want to gain too much fat). I'm doing this cycle as an experiment to see how well these compounds work for me and they're working very well...

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Today is my 35th day. I'm up 12lbs as of this morning. For the past few days, I've been taking 10mg of Ergomax in the morning, 10mg of Superdrol at night and 6ml of Finigenx 3x daily. I'll probably stop the Ergomax altogether and replace the morning dose with Superdrol in a day or two. My strength has gone up a lot on this cycle. I'm getting 6 reps with weight I couldn't budge beforehand. I'm being very careful because of various injuries - otherwise I'd likely have gained much more weight and strength by now..

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Holy crap! I think I have to be finished with SD. A couple of nights ago, I woke up with an incredibly bad cramp in my right arm. I couldn't straighten it at all - I had done heavy biceps and light back that night. I figured it was just because my workout was very intense..

Today so far, I had a terrible cramp in my jaw when biting my breakfast sandwich, a terrible cramp in my neck while yawning, and now I just got a cramp in my stomach bad enough where I thought I was going to die. All I did was my normal abdominal flex to "sit up" in my chair and answer the phone..

What the heck is going on? This morning was the first morning I took 10mg of SD in the AM instead of Ergomax. There's no way I can continue on like this. It's very damn scary...

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Anybody ever hear of this happening or what?

 

[Jblake]

I get bad cramps while on cycle as well. I take potassium and taurine and they seem to help. Extreme stretching after training seems to help me even more than the supps. They also seem to help with gains and recovery, but I don't think this is applicable to your jaw unless anyone out there knows of some wierd facial stretching exercise.

On another note...

One of my lats shot out and hit somebody in the back of the head.

I'm trying to picture this... I have never experienced this particular side effect, lol.

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Are these cramps sought of the same thing as the "back pumps" I read about? I do have Taurine and I'll start taking it right now if it'll allow me to stay on the SD for my 2 or 3 weeks.. I just wasn't sure if what I was feeling was the same thing. Any more input would be greatly appreciated..

And yes, the "lat shoot" is a wierd side effect.

 

[sean taylor]

Drink lots of water on SD.

 

[bigpapapump]

Ive not tried SD yet but when I was on m1T I had a cramp in my jaw that was so bad it almost brought me to tears...ha ha ha. But of course I didn't stop and fortunately it was the only one I had. Ive heard the two are close.

When u first started on Ergo when did you feel it kick in? Like I said I have used M1t several times in the past and it always kicked in about 5-6 days in. This is day three on Ergo(20) and swear I already feel the ****. I don't think it placebo because to be honest I am skeptical that it will do much...but my attitude is defiantly changing after reading your results.