why do anabolics give some guys big muscle guts?

[SDaigneault]

i see it at the gym. huge guys, clearly on 'roids, and they're stomachs stick out farther than their chests, but when you see them in the locker room, you can see their abs. looks like they have developed muscles there? dont get it... i think it looks kind of bad.

 

[Beelzebub]

kinda like ronnie's gut? i've heard two theories:
1) GH gut due to excessive dosages of growth,
2) or because of the constant overeating that some do over a few meals versus dividing them up into smaller meals throughout the day.

 

[KD1]

Yeah GH gut, GH makes many tissues grow, especially the intestines. So they swell up. I wonder if its permanent, if when they stop competing and their muscles atrophy they still have those swollen guts.

 

[CRUNCH]

Thought I read somewhere that bodybuilding judges were going to start penalizing the competitors for the big guts.

Could have some sort of drug induced dream too...

 

[chasec]

supposedly they are going back to the classical ideas of what a bodybuilder should be. judging by the olypmia results, it's a load of horse sh*t

 

[glenihan]

big article in MD the other month .. they claim its due to the combo of insulin and GH .. i personally don't buy the "eating way too much too often" theory

 

[JonesersRX7]

big article in MD the other month .. they claim its due to the combo of insulin and GH .. i personally don't buy the "eating way too much too often" theory

Yeah, one with Darrem on the cover... read that too.

It's from massive amounts of GH and slin for sure.

 

[SDaigneault]

is GH and insulin from taking AAS?

 

[CRUNCH]

"is GH and insulin from taking AAS?"

Huh??

 

[glenihan]

... its from taking gh and insulin

 

[SDaigneault]

"is GH and insulin from taking AAS?"

Huh??

sorry for the ignorance.

:ntome:

 

[CRUNCH]

Didn't think it was ignorance, just didn't know what you were asking.

 

[Ubiquitous]

There is another theory that tries to explain this.

They say you have a concentration of AR receptors in or around your vestigial fat.. more fat is deposited there, around your organs in the vestigial cavity, if you eat for an all out bulk while on AAS.

More fat on organs, distended belly.:whiner:

I had the gorilla gut syndrome on my last cycle... now I'm keeping that **** in CHECK boyeeee.

 

[x_muscle]

not onlhy GH causes that, but some steroids promotes horizontal organ growth.

 

[Wolfe08]

what's the difference between GH and insulin? I thought it was the same thing...

 

[Ubiquitous]

Uh.. nope... lol ^^^^

GH is Human Growth Hormone. A 191 amino sequence that elongates bones, organs, promotes growth of skeletal muscle, accelerates fat loss, improves elasticity of skin.. life extenionalists love this stuff. It's effects are attributed to IGF-1, that GH mediates.

Insulin is Insulin.. the stuff that's secreted from your pancreas, that can be extremely anabolic post workout. People use exogenous insulin to get an edge on this. it's also dangerous when not used correctly. You can kick the bucket if you don't know what you're doing.

hopefully that clears it up for you Wolfe.

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

not onlhy GH causes that, but some steroids promotes horizontal organ growth.

do you know which ones?

 

[david4zero8]

There is another theory that tries to explain this.

They say you have a concentration of AR receptors in or around your vestigial fat.. more fat is deposited there, around your organs in the vestigial cavity, if you eat for an all out bulk while on AAS.

More fat on organs, distended belly.:whiner:

I had the gorilla gut syndrome on my last cycle... now I'm keeping that **** in CHECK boyeeee.

That's interesting that you wrote that. My gut has become extremely distended the past 6 months or so. My BF is a little high, around 16%, but you can still see the outline of the center division between the abdominal. It's gotten to the point where my gut sticks out further then my chest, and when in public, it becomes a major pain keeping it sucked in.

It really does feel like the internal organs are pushing my abdominal forward, and that it's just not the extra fat around my stomach causing the distention.

Keep in mind that i've only ran one SD cycle, which seems to have made my situation worst.

 

[Scottyo]

people also have to simply realize that your abs are muscles too. so if your biceps are bulging out and your pecs are exploding out of your chest, your abs will be bigger as well. Never done GH, or slin and bodyfat never gets above 9-10% but I can get a slightly distended (at least to me...most people have no clue what im talking about it seems) look when on androgens.
Also, cortisol and the rebound post cycle may have some impact on this and the fact that alot of people do not do cardio work so they have moderate amounts of VAT and minimal sub-q fat.
But regarding the pros and the real big time users....its most likely the GH and slin.

 

[King Nothing]

So would be safe to say Dexter Jackson probably uses none to very little gh/slin while Ronnie probably uses an assload and that's why their guts are so different?

 

[glenihan]

no dex definitely uses a lot of gh and insulin .. as much as ronnie i have no idea .. everyone reacts differently though AND if you look at dex he does have mild distention

 

[King Nothing]

yeah your right, I just saw some pics of him not flexing and he does have it too

 

[jomi822]

during my first two cycles i didnt get any stomach distension at all. on my last cycle (m1t finigenx and prostanzol) it was EXTREMELY noticeable. i have never used slin or gh and even 2 months after my cycle my stomach is slightly distended, especially at night. my cousin and friends have both made "beer gut" comments about it, after which i showed them my stomach and they could not beleive i had a 6 pack and obliques. i would place myself at around 10% bodyfat. i have been on a super low carb diet for the past 7 days and it has not helped the distension.

 

[Wolfe08]

my manager at work has this problem to the max...he's an older guy like 45 or so and he has a huge guy which you would be certain is fat...when he lifts his shirt and flexes you can clearly see a 6-pac form (no oblique definition tho)...but it still pertrudes quite at lot, just not as much when relaxed...does this mean he used HG or insulin in his younger days?

 

[Ubiquitous]

No, you can't always blame GH or IGF, or slin.

. IMO it's vestigial fat and not keeping a strong core. Diaphramatic breathing helps with this, vacuuming your abdomen helps. You can have excellent abdominal conditioning, but if you relax, bloop, it rolls out on you.. if you keep it tight, eventually it will train itself tight. I'm a firm believer in breathing techniques.. training or at rest. You may scoff, but yoga will surely correct this. IMHO yoga is an excellent addition to any training regimen.. for the mind and body.

Gustavo Badel got his in tippy top shape for the last O.. he used to have a hardcore gorilla gut.. if it was organ growth, he couldn't really reverse that then. It would be interesting to see how he conditioned himself back to that.

 

[Beowulf]

Gustavo Badel got his in tippy top shape for the last O.. he used to have a hardcore gorilla gut.. if it was organ growth, he couldn't really reverse that then.

Agreed, Gustavo looked awesome. His progress really made me second guess the organ growth theory.

 

[-2z-]

All the old school BB'ers used to do those vacuum exercises. Those and other core strength exercises are great for core strength too.

 

[max-rot98]

I don't think gh and slin are necessarily the reason. Many people I know have distended guts with a relatively low amount of fat, including myself when I bulk. And not all of them use gh and slin. But with ronnie's and pros the like I believe the growth slin igf make this problem far more dramatic and more irreversible. For example look at darrem charles. He definately has to use gh and slin but he has the smallest waist among the olympia competitors.

 

[diminuendo]

vacums, period. Look at Arnold and Zane, both of whom tout vacums. I had "ripped gut" until I started yoga, so I am going to have to side with Ubiq.

 

[Grunt76]

Yeh but Zane and Arnie didn't use GH or SLIN, let alone IGF-1.

 

[SecretOfSteel]

Vacuums are fantastic, they will definately help out.

As far as the bellies, the guys you see in the gym that are so obviously on roids have a few things going on - first, they're probably swarmed with estrogen from aromatizing steroids, which is helping them retain water and fat - second, they're probably bulking, not doing any cardio, and eating a lot so they couldn't give a crap what they look like - just wait till spring, those guys will start leaning out when they get diet/cardio into the mix for summer.

 

[neverstop]

i have a friend who has this distended belly thing and has a decent six pack and he has never done any aas, gh or slin, he used to be very skinny, started lifting at like 140 and now is at an all naturual 225 (though a bit fatter) everyone is different, lot of factors involved, i agree with the core strengthening thing, would be interested to find out how gustavo got his gut back in!

 

[david4zero8]

Does anyone think heavy deadlifts and squats have a lot to do with the thick midsection/core, and in some cases distention, in the general weightlifting population who do not use gear, whether it be AAS, slin, or hgh?

 

[glenihan]

personally i don't think so .. anyway deads and squats (if they did) would give the appearance of a wider waist due to the obliques getting larger .. it wouldn't make your abs "pop" out more giving "gh gut"

but i also don't believe heavy deads and squats give one a blocky waist i think its genetic ... i do heavy squats and deads often and i have a pretty narrow waist

 

[Tiftan090]

I agree that its not just slin and gh that does it. I normally have no gut at all, but I developed one when I was on a gram of test for five months. BF didn't change much nor did my eating of lifting habits. Test does stimulate gh production, but I doubt it is anything like exogenous gh levels, so I think the test was the main factor there.

 

[triceptor]

while this study was done on short bowel rats, there seems to be some synergy between glutamine and rHGH supplementation that increased the weight of the liver, spleen and lungs. this could be a possible cause of GH gut....

http://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/8/752.htm

here's an excerpt that indicates this possibility

Although rhGH or Gln didn't affected the absolute weight of the remnant small intestine, the ratio of weight/length was greater in rats treated with Gln, rhGH and rhGH+Gln than those with PN alone (2-way ANOVA contrasting 4 experimental groups, P=0.019, 0.012 and 0.018 respectively), there were synergistic effects between rhGH and Gln in the increase of the weight/length of the remnant small intestine. Lung, liver and spleen weights were increased in rats treated with rhGH, others were not significantly affected by rhGH and/or Gln, P>0.05.

 

[briancaswell]

I will go out on a limb and say that I think most of the "steroid guts" can be attributed to a mixture of increased visceral fat (fat on top of internal organs, not sub-q fat) do to irresponsble insulin usage. Exogenous insulin has been shown to cause a rapid increase in visceral fat in humans in only moderate dosages. Slin also helps IGF-1 and GH better exert their effects on ALL muscle tissues (smooth, squamous and striated) by prolonging the life of IGF-1 in the blood stream.

Another factor is heavy IGF-1 usage and gh usage- there are plenty of target receptors for these compounds to bind to on the surface of the large intestine and small intestine, and this can cause a distended belly, especially in higher dosages. These are tissues comprised of smooth muscle, but they will still grow larger when there is a large amount of exogenous IGF-1 and/or GH introduced into the body.

Third factor is increased IM water volume inside the muscles of the abdominal cavity. The use of any anabolic steroid promotes the increased intracellular uptake of phosphorous, calcium, sodium, and water, and the concurrent use of IGF-1 and GH will further add to the intracellular concentrations of water and nutrients.

When the athlete is in competition shape and uses the right combination of non-aromatizing drugs, slin, IGF-1, and GH, there will be little or no fat/water stored subcutaneously, but there will be massive amounts of intracellular H20 located w/in the muscles of the abdominal cavity (and all other muscles in the body- hint- look at the faces of the competitors- some of the increased intracellular water is stored there- some of them have a very WEIRD look), plus there will also be visceral fat on top of the internal organs- the combination of the two causes the bodybuilder to look like he swallowed a pumpkin. This look is further accentuated by sub-4% body fat- voila! A big nasty steroid gut! All in all, the dosages and drugs used by pro bb's are absolutely freakish, and they create massive amounts of synergistic activity in all muscles of the body- BUT, thankfully, the average 3-4 iu a day user of gh will probably not encounter the same problems- simple fact- use, don't abuse

 

[triceptor]

I will go out on a limb and say that I think most of the "steroid guts" can be attributed to a mixture of increased visceral fat (fat on top of internal organs, not sub-q fat) do to irresponsble insulin usage. Exogenous insulin has been shown to cause a rapid increase in visceral fat in humans in only moderate dosages.

Another factor is heavy IGF-1 usage and gh usage- there are plenty of target receptors for these compounds to bind to on the surface of the large intestine and small intestine, and this can cause a distended belly, especially in higher dosages. These are tissues comprised of smooth muscle, but they will still grow larger when there is a large amount of exogenous IGF-1 and/or GH introduced into the body.

Third factor is increased IM water volume inside the muscles of the abdominal cavity. The use of any anabolic steroid promotes the increased intracellular uptake of phosphorous, calcium, sodium, and water, and the concurrent use of IGF-1 and GH will further add to the intracellular concentrations of water and nutrients.

When the athlete is in competition shape and uses the right combination of non-aromatizing drugs, slin, IGF-1, and GH, there will be little or no fat/water stored subcutaneously, but there will be massive amounts of intracellular H20 located w/in the muscles of the abdominal cavity (and all other muscles in the body- hint- look at the faces of the competitors- some of the increased intracellular water is stored there- some of them have a very WEIRD look), plus there will also be visceral fat on top of the internal organs- the combination of the two causes the bodybuilder to look like he swallowed a pumpkin. This look is further accentuated by sub-4% body fat- voila! A big nasty steroid gut!

according to this there was a reduction in vesceral fat. I know that this may not be valid as they are HIV patients and have abnormalities...

Expert Rev Anti Infect Ther. 2005 Oct;3(5):727-38.

[SIZE=+1]Recombinant human growth hormone therapy in HIV-associated wasting and visceral adiposity.[/SIZE]

Yin MT, Glesby MJ.

Division of Infectious Diseases, Columbia University Medical Center, NY, USA. [email protected]

This article reviews the clinical data on recombinant human growth hormone therapy of body composition abnormalities in HIV-infected patients. Short-term recombinant human growth hormone therapy at pharmacologic doses modestly increases total body weight and lean body mass in patients with HIV wasting, resulting in improvements in physical capacity and quality of life. Short-term recombinant human growth hormone therapy has a clear dose-dependent impact on trunk and visceral fat in HIV-infected patients with central fat accumulation, resulting in improvements in perception of body image and a beneficial effect on lipid parameters. Recombinant human growth hormone therapy is also accompanied by dose-dependent side effects related to fluid retention and increased insulin resistance. The optimal treatment strategy, maintenance dose and duration of treatment have not been identified.

my vote remains with organ growth as the reason for GH gut...

 

[glenihan]

I will go out on a limb and say that I think most of the "steroid guts" can be attributed to a mixture of increased visceral fat (fat on top of internal organs, not sub-q fat) do to irresponsble insulin usage. Exogenous insulin has been shown to cause a rapid increase in visceral fat in humans in only moderate dosages. Slin also helps IGF-1 and GH better exert their effects on ALL muscle tissues (smooth, squamous and striated) by prolonging the life of IGF-1 in the blood stream.

Another factor is heavy IGF-1 usage and gh usage- there are plenty of target receptors for these compounds to bind to on the surface of the large intestine and small intestine, and this can cause a distended belly, especially in higher dosages. These are tissues comprised of smooth muscle, but they will still grow larger when there is a large amount of exogenous IGF-1 and/or GH introduced into the body.

Third factor is increased IM water volume inside the muscles of the abdominal cavity. The use of any anabolic steroid promotes the increased intracellular uptake of phosphorous, calcium, sodium, and water, and the concurrent use of IGF-1 and GH will further add to the intracellular concentrations of water and nutrients.

When the athlete is in competition shape and uses the right combination of non-aromatizing drugs, slin, IGF-1, and GH, there will be little or no fat/water stored subcutaneously, but there will be massive amounts of intracellular H20 located w/in the muscles of the abdominal cavity (and all other muscles in the body- hint- look at the faces of the competitors- some of the increased intracellular water is stored there- some of them have a very WEIRD look), plus there will also be visceral fat on top of the internal organs- the combination of the two causes the bodybuilder to look like he swallowed a pumpkin. This look is further accentuated by sub-4% body fat- voila! A big nasty steroid gut! All in all, the dosages and drugs used by pro bb's are absolutely freakish, and they create massive amounts of synergistic activity in all muscles of the body- BUT, thankfully, the average 3-4 iu a day user of gh will probably not encounter the same problems- simple fact- use, don't abuse

:goodpost:


and i doubt its organ growth because people lose their "gh guts" e.g. gustavo

 

[french_muscle]

yup, it's called visceral adipose tissue, or VAT

quoted from a mind and muscle article

"Testosterone, for all its anabolic cash-money-ness, does its damage in several ways—by increasing angiotensin II (14,15,16) and cellular beta adrenergic receptor density (17,18,19), by decreasing 5alpha reductase activity (20,21), and by decreasing 11beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (11betaHSD) activity (22). These processes work in concert to increase activity of cortisol and the stress axis (20,23,24,25,26,27,28), a process intimately linked with visceral adipose tissue accumulation (26,28,29,30), elevated blood lipids (31,32,33,34), oxidative stress/inflammation (35,36,37), and heart disease (28,38,39,40). And while hopefully your wife or girlfriend (or maybe just the judges at your next Mr. Olympia show) will be willing to shrug off your Test-tummy as ‘kind of cute,’ there’s nothing cute about a self-perpetuating condition that differentiates (re: creates new) fat cells even as it sends your overall health prospects a’-plummeting… pronto. Or, as Larsson and colleagues put it rather tellingly in their 1984 study on abdominal adipose tissue distribution, obesity, and their related health risks, “[Our] results indicate that in middle aged men the distribution of fat deposits may be a better predictor of cardiovascular disease and death than the degree of adiposity” (28). They’re talkin’ VAT gentlemen."

 

[dertynasty]

Ok. I have a couple statements and weird things i have heard.

Supposedly there is this world renound doctor that takes care of gh guts and he took care of gustavo, i just need to find out his name again.

Also after my sd cycle i noticed my stomach stuck out a bit more while i could still see my abs. However, i was eating soo much on cycle so I'm not really sure if it was fron the sd or eating.

Now most of you say theres no way it could be from eating, but i notice after i eat a big meal its liek my stomach wants to stick out however if i flex i can still see my abs. and in the AM when i have no food in me i have no gut. soo I dont know.

As far this this next point it could be a myth.
I heard that when u do abs, if you hold your breath on the contraction rather than letting it out, an air bubble is there and your abs kind of form around it. Im not sure but i tend to hold my breath sometimes.

 

[Ubiquitous]

yup, it's called visceral adipose tissue, or VAT

quoted from a mind and muscle article

"Testosterone, for all its anabolic cash-money-ness, does its damage in several ways—by increasing angiotensin II (14,15,16) and cellular beta adrenergic receptor density (17,18,19), by decreasing 5alpha reductase activity (20,21), and by decreasing 11beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (11betaHSD) activity (22). These processes work in concert to increase activity of cortisol and the stress axis (20,23,24,25,26,27,28), a process intimately linked with visceral adipose tissue accumulation (26,28,29,30), elevated blood lipids (31,32,33,34), oxidative stress/inflammation (35,36,37), and heart disease (28,38,39,40). And while hopefully your wife or girlfriend (or maybe just the judges at your next Mr. Olympia show) will be willing to shrug off your Test-tummy as ‘kind of cute,’ there’s nothing cute about a self-perpetuating condition that differentiates (re: creates new) fat cells even as it sends your overall health prospects a’-plummeting… pronto. Or, as Larsson and colleagues put it rather tellingly in their 1984 study on abdominal adipose tissue distribution, obesity, and their related health risks, “[Our] results indicate that in middle aged men the distribution of fat deposits may be a better predictor of cardiovascular disease and death than the degree of adiposity” (28). They’re talkin’ VAT gentlemen."

Thanks frenchy, that's what I was trying to say when i said "vestigial adipose" lol! Visceral.. visceral.. ok got it.. anyways, excellent work frenchy.. I can call you frenchy now, right?

peace!

 

[nolinenowait]

whats a vaccuum