Is is possible to make prostan an injectible?

E-Swift25

New member
Awards
0
Since its a non methylated product, the majority of it is destroyed in the GI tract. This is why you need to dose it so high, also it being a weak compound to being with doesn't help. Ok, enough of the obvious. It it possible to make an injectible out of it, thus eliminating the need for high oral dosing and presumabley make it more effective.
 

chasec

Pityin' fools since '81
Awards
1
  • Established
probably not, when they make tabs they mix in a filler like absorbic acid that would be a pain to filter out. it'd be much easier to just get some real winstrol
 
bigpetefox

bigpetefox

Board Sponsor
Awards
1
  • Established
Methylation protects from first pass metabolism in the liver.. If methylation were for digestive issues, there'd be more of an issue with ulcers than liver values.. ;)
 

chasec

Pityin' fools since '81
Awards
1
  • Established
yes, the liver filters blood and than recirculates it back through the body. eventually whatever survives the "first pass" of the liver will pass back through the liver again and be degraded
 
bigpetefox

bigpetefox

Board Sponsor
Awards
1
  • Established
:goodpost:

So the action would look like this:

stomach--->absorbsion---> first pass---> systemic saturation---> second pass (degrades product further)..

If documented on absorbsion in the stomach, it's possible that a non-methyl can survive the gut.. I think it depends more on tablet coating/capsule filler to determine which goes first.. If there were tests done on a non-methyl base product (oxymetholone without the c17aa) it would better show the active's ability to survive the gut..
 
poopypants

poopypants

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
i asked this previously in another thread but since injection isnt really an option what about making it into a trans derm? is there any set ratio or percentage at wich the prostan would be absorbed compared to oral:transderm? is there at least a known ratio with the classic transderms (say 4-ad) wich could at least help with a general idea?
 

dsl

officially an adult
Awards
1
  • Established
Thanks Chasec & BigPete, that's what I wanted to know.
 
bigpetefox

bigpetefox

Board Sponsor
Awards
1
  • Established
posted by poopypants i asked this previously in another thread but since injection isnt really an option what about making it into a trans derm? is there any set ratio or percentage at wich the prostan would be absorbed compared to oral:transderm? is there at least a known ratio with the classic transderms (say 4-ad) wich could at least help with a general idea?


The problem is these newer products are too new.. Noone's doing anything on that end to find molecular weight, what to brew it with, etc.. It could possibly work in transdermal, even better in depot, we just need someone inclined to test these methods out.. ;)
 
poopypants

poopypants

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
[/b]

The problem is these newer products are too new.. Noone's doing anything on that end to find molecular weight, what to brew it with, etc.. It could possibly work in transdermal, even better in depot, we just need someone inclined to test these methods out.. ;)
allready in the process bro im just trying to get a general idea as to what kind of absorbtion ratio i can expect so i know how much to dose. im gonna follow the transderm formula process listed for 4-ad in the homebrew section, ill definately make a post as to how i feel it works..... or doesnt.
 

chasec

Pityin' fools since '81
Awards
1
  • Established
on the dermal, don't expect any more than 10-15% absorption. it's been debated to hell and back again. it really depends on the molecular weight of the molecule, polarity, etc. you'll have to experiment like pete said
 
poopypants

poopypants

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
on the dermal, don't expect any more than 10-15% absorption. it's been debated to hell and back again. it really depends on the molecular weight of the molecule, polarity, etc. you'll have to experiment like pete said
well then whats the absortion when taken oral so i have some sort of dosing comparison, i mean expeiramenting is dadny and all just gotta have some place to start.
 
Grunt76

Grunt76

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Sniffing the contents of the cap would work. Who wants to try?? :)
 
poopypants

poopypants

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
Sniffing the contents of the cap would work. Who wants to try?? :)
lol man thats funny... (puts away staw),

lol i see that your sig has helped your rep lol. you might as well just go for the all time low record.:lol:
 
Grunt76

Grunt76

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Might as well... :dance:

Oh, but ON-topic, there are chem houses in china who really really want to sell you the pure chem that is Prostanozol.
 
poopypants

poopypants

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
Might as well... :dance:

Oh, but ON-topic, there are chem houses in china who really really want to sell you the pure chem that is Prostanozol.
say what??? even though its still legal would it be possible that something like that would get stopped at customs? hey man if you in actuality have some sort of connect id ge willing to go in on a bunch of raw.
 
Grunt76

Grunt76

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Hey look! Just when It looks like I'm going to -1000, I have a fan! One that breathes! :)


I'm sure it must be doable.
 
Grunt76

Grunt76

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
You know what they should do huh? Instead of putting the stuff in caps, dissolve it in oil and sell it with a graduated dropper.

With all these fillers, it makes it hard on experimenters looking for "other means of administration".

Snorting Prostanozol? Well the list of fillers is pretty tame... It might be doable, especially that only a couple caps a day would be enough.

I wonder how much of it gets destroyed during the first pass? Hm.........
 
poopypants

poopypants

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
You know what they should do huh? Instead of putting the stuff in caps, dissolve it in oil and sell it with a graduated dropper.

With all these fillers, it makes it hard on experimenters looking for "other means of administration".

I wonder how much of it gets destroyed during the first pass? Hm.........
these are all things ive been trying to find out.

ive read diff methods for removing fillers from capsules but it was for 4-AD and i dont know if this compound can handle the same rigors. it involves dissolving it in acetone and then straining it through a coffee filter. evaporate the acetone and the crystals left behind are the active.

like i said though who knows if the prostan can survive the same process though. guess ill find out.

the thing is i really need to know the amount that makes it through first pass and the like so i can have soe kind of comparison for transderm or injectable forms.
 

Klaus

Guest
If you really want to separate the active material from the binders, notacow's crystal fina method works well.
 
motiv8er

motiv8er

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
As far as oral consumption goes, has anyone ever layered a pill not unlike a rx med? I know my time dosed meds in the past have had a coating that extended the pills life. Or someone could release a pain free oral with an acetate ester/ cyp ester.
 
milwood

milwood

Registered User
Awards
1
  • Established
Somebody find the chem house in China and get a kilo or 10. You can snort it, shoot it, smoke it, or do whatever you want, but you won't have to pay ALRI $30/gram or whatever it is capped and labeled. Believe you me, this powder would be a major hit. Logistics and legality (customs included) would likely be a major impediment, however...
 
poopypants

poopypants

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
If you really want to separate the active material from the binders, notacow's crystal fina method works well.
i tried to search it and couldnnt find this mind posting a link?
 
poopypants

poopypants

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
Somebody find the chem house in China and get a kilo or 10. You can snort it, shoot it, smoke it, or do whatever you want, but you won't have to pay ALRI $30/gram or whatever it is capped and labeled. Believe you me, this powder would be a major hit. Logistics and legality (customs included) would likely be a major impediment, however...
i wonder about customs too at least hasseling the process. although this chem is stilll perfectly legal and therefore shouldnt face any problems in the end. the pain in the arse would be getting it in and then finding a lab to re-test its purity.
 
Grunt76

Grunt76

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
i wonder about customs too at least hasseling the process. although this chem is stilll perfectly legal and therefore shouldnt face any problems in the end. the pain in the arse would be getting it in and then finding a lab to re-test its purity.
Lab? Isn't that BB.COM? :D
 

Klaus

Guest
Now that I think of it, prostan with an ester could be a very interesting steroid for injection. If it isn't illegal, perhaps some supplement companies might offer prostan acetate?
 
Grunt76

Grunt76

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Now that I think of it, prostan with an ester could be a very interesting steroid for injection. If it isn't illegal, perhaps some supplement companies might offer prostan acetate?
WE WANTSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS PRECIOUSSSSSSSSSSSSS
 

E-Swift25

New member
Awards
0
Now that I think of it, prostan with an ester could be a very interesting steroid for injection. If it isn't illegal, perhaps some supplement companies might offer prostan acetate?
I can't see why this would be difficult. I'm sure the throngs of organic chemists out there can cook something up. It's been done before, why not again? I'm thiking it might be on par with masteron or something to that effect.
 

french_muscle

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I thought about it too, a longer acting inj version of prostanazol would kick ass it would allow us to run it during the whole cycle without worrying about hepatoxicity
 

E-Swift25

New member
Awards
0
Exactly, tell those bastard to get on it and sell it to me for 50 cents a gram.
 
poopypants

poopypants

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
i just hate needles and the idea of injecting and screwing up. thats why im lookin for a transderm route.... tell you how it works when i get around to it.
 

E-Swift25

New member
Awards
0
I don't mind needles. I like the infrequent poking (2x a week) rather than dosing orals throughout the day. I am very forgetful and my dumb ass misses doses sometimes.
 
poopypants

poopypants

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
I don't mind needles. I like the infrequent poking (2x a week) rather than dosing orals throughout the day. I am very forgetful and my dumb ass misses doses sometimes.
for a bi weekly dosing wouldnt that require some kind of ester? i dont think that anyone has even shown that prostan posses this and if it were to be made into an injectable in its current state its sold in it would still require a daily dosing, if not multiple daily shots, which means a whole lotta stickin.... no fun.
 
Grunt76

Grunt76

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I'm betting snorting pure prostan powder would be all the fun one needs. 2 x 35mg ED would probably be LOTS.

Now if the chinamen would only come up with pricing...
 
poopypants

poopypants

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
ya we were tring to look into a couple chem houses over there but none of them have prostan listed as it is on the label. i suppose they prob use the andro name as opposed to the etio-chan ish or whatever it is. if any one figures out what it is let me know and maybe we can cook something up.
 
jonny21

jonny21

Registered User
Awards
1
  • Established
Ask for 5alpha-androstano[3,2-c]pyrazole 17beta-acetate
Sorry Klaus but you left yourself open to a chemistry question since you knew the molecule name. Would this be lipophilic? If so, then you could probably snort it. I still think it would be better in an oil solution in order to gain access to lymphatic system. Get stanazol. It's probably a lot cheaper in powder.
 
Grunt76

Grunt76

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Why would snorting it not be effective, in simple terms?
 
poopypants

poopypants

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
Get stanazol. It's probably a lot cheaper in powder.
a lot cheaper and a lot more illegal. if you could get bulk powder through customs then be my guest but its not a game id like to play.

not that i would even try it but for the sake of knowledge could you give a more elaboarate reason why a stripped or raw version of prostan wouldnt be effectively absorbed nasaly? wouldnt it be absorbed through the more membranous tissue like putting it under your tounge? or are the tissues too different between the 2?
 
jonny21

jonny21

Registered User
Awards
1
  • Established
a lot cheaper and a lot more illegal. if you could get bulk powder through customs then be my guest but its not a game id like to play.
Where were you expecting to get the Prostanazol Bulk Powder? I was assuming from overseas. You will run the same risk. It was only legal because it flew in under the radar. prostanazol was one of the traget supps for that article and was found to contain steroidal compunds from what i remember from reading. I have a good feeling that Customs won't differentiate.
Try taking with grapefruit juice.
 
Grunt76

Grunt76

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Well I think prostanozol is still actually legal otherwise anyone selling it is asking for SERIOUS trouble. The laws themselves do not prohibit it. Especially raw, bulk powder is a research chem and not a "supplement".

I think it's very much worth a shot. It isn't illegal to possess, for SURE. Anyways I'mma try my hardest to get a quote for it and take it from there. :D

Minimum quantity would probably be a kilo or more. I did get a quote for Max LMG powder and it was to the tune of $400 for 100g. That's a LOT of powder, but that's also a lot of money if they require a minimum purchase of a kilo.

OTOH, they probably don't mind dividing the order and shipping at multiple places. I think it's enough on that particular angle. I believe I am not exactly offending but mods please delete if I am. Sometimes the line is a little blurry. Thanks.
 
Grunt76

Grunt76

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I asked someone to comment on this, as it is becoming an interesting topic.
 
DR.D

DR.D

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
The bottle I have says {3,2}-Pyrazole-5a-etioallocholane-17b-tetrahydropyranol. This nomenclature is a bit confusing. It does not appear to be the acetate ester of the free alcohol. Tetrahydropyran is a cyclic ether that looks like cyclohexane except it has the ether link in place of one of the carbons like THF. If this is an alcohol of that, I am not sure what position the sub is at. The ether oxygen can not be directly linked to the hormone since it is already connected to 2 carbons in the ring so I am a bit confused. It must be connected to another carbon, maybe the same one with the hyroxyl group. If it is the ether I am assuming, then intramuscular, transdermal and intranasal techniques are quite pointless. It is very well suited to be absorbed orally due to it's high lipophilic character and chemical resistance to acid conditions. Aliphatic ethers are generally not extensively metabolized either, so it is probably acting on the receptor as is. Also, the free, demethylated stanazol has zero activity anyway, so metabolism is probably undesirable. 17-ethers are often even more active than their methylated versions, so I am surprised that it is not as strong or stronger than Winni. This probably has to do with electronic or steric factors involving the A ring. Maybe I am totally off here, but the name is too vague to know for sure. If you want to extract/isolate it and try anyway, get a list of the inactives and I'll help. If you can't find one, I'd suggest acetone or dioxane to try first and cross your figures! The MW should be roughly 416 amu.
 
Grunt76

Grunt76

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
The fillers are: microcrystalline cellulose, modified cornstarch, magnesium stearate, silica.

Knowing the actual structure is very very important for getting bulk powder made. ALRI isn't going to make it, heck I might as well get it some other way.

Klaus said the acetate ester would be 5alpha-androstano[3,2-c]pyrazole 17beta-acetate but I really would prefer without any ester since that is what we have been using all along. Why spend $5000 for a couple kilos of stuff that might end up useless?

I'm in love with prostanozol. Does it show?
 
Grunt76

Grunt76

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I have contacted some chinese chemical houses regarding this with the etioallocholane name and they haven't a clue what it means. That's why the actual andro name is important.

Klaus, that little diagram will be seen by chemists in China come monday morning there, which is REAL soon now. :D

Thanks man.
 
DR.D

DR.D

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
... Perhaps we should be asking for {3,2}-Pyrazole-5a-etioallocholane-17b-acetate instead of 5alpha-androstano[3,2-c]pyrazole 17beta-acetate ...
I bet that THP ether (in your diagram) is what it is alright. The problem is that the free alcohol is not active. The acetate would offer a suitable IM form, but it would hydrolyze to the same inactive compound. I'd bet the ether is intrinsic to the activity, not just the oral bioavailability of this compound.
 
DR.D

DR.D

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Well, compounds like this are generally not well metabolized. I'm using studies on diphenhydramine as a ref here because I can't find much on steroid ethers. Mixed aliphatic/aromatics are O-dealkylated in many cases (like phenacetin --> acetaminophen). So the choice of attachments here (THP) seems strange. A cyclohexyl-'1-alkoxy or 1-ene would offer easier metabolism to the free 17b alcohol I'd think. It's not that it's "inactive", just much weaker than Winstrol would be. If it is metabolized to the free steroid, that may explain the high dose requirement. Now I'm interested in some transdermal or IM experimentation! :) I just don't have time for splitting and making esters these days though. Will be quite busy for months, so it's up to you Klaus. You could extract and cleave with an HI/H2O reflux and make a prop ester if you have the time.
 

Similar threads


Top