How to SHRED this body? *pics*

[hurricane]

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--

Pictures of said body are attached.

Stats are as follows:

21yrs old
200lbs
Estimated 20% or slightly less bf, likely over 15%--see pics and judge for yourself
No previous androgen history
MINIMUM Goals: Reach 10% or less bf while retaining as much current LBM as possible--anything better, such as reaching lower bf or gaining LBM is more than welcome

I've been reading various sites, articles, etc. for the past several several hours.

At first I thought perhaps I would use Superdrol, but after researching more, doesn't seem to be the answer to the mentioned goals above.

Am willing to use orals or transdermals, would prefer not to inject.

Clen seems like a possible answer, or T2? I was reading about T3 and T2 on PhysicalEnhancement, and it seemed to have said that T2 is better than T3.

Should note 2 bottles (90 caps) of Methyl-Rage (methyl-DHT) are available for use.

Any sort of guidance and information on what would be best to implement in this situation is greatly appreciated. If this isn't the right place to ask, please direct me to where it would be more appropriate.

 

[bda55]

I don't think you need any drugs, just get your diet and cardio in check... I know that's probably not what you want to hear, but thats just IMO. GL

 

[hurricane]

I hear you, and you're probably right, but reality is that it is likely that most people who do use drugs don't "really" need them--they choose to use for their own reasons, whether reasonable or not.

Would still like to discuss the topic at hand however.

Another thing that apparantly I am not informed about..in this "guide"

http://www.avantlabs.com/magmain.php?issueID=24&pageID=300

It states that PCT (tamoxifen) is $10 in bulk powder form. I'm only finding liquid forms that are 1000mg for $45

 

[aspire210]

I hear you, and you're probably right, but reality is that it is likely that most people who do use drugs don't "really" need them--they choose to use for their own reasons, whether reasonable or not.
http://www.avantlabs.com/magmain.php?issueID=24&pageID=300

A) Alot of people say you should use the drugs after you have some inkling how to diet. Drugs won't make up for bad food or bad routines. But say you do use clen and get ripped, without a good diet you have no chance to maintain it. Using something like T3 you will more than likely rebound that much faster. Same thing goes for the steroids, you won't keep what you gain without a good diet.

B) I would remove the asking for a source or the mods will be ban you. Sorry, but this is not an open source board.

Finally, if you want to learn how to eat right and spend less than what you would spend on one cycle and the ancilleries, then see if Bobo is for hire right now.

PS: Methyl rage isn't worth much except for preworkout. Even then most say its underdosed.

 

[hurricane]

I have a pretty good understanding of proper diet, most definitely more so than the average newbie asking what supps or drugs to take.
I would use drugs to achieve goals faster in conjunction with a sound diet and training protocol, then would ensure proper PCT and post-cycle diet and training as well.

I guess it depends on interpretation..I just kind of mentioned that comment about the nolva, I didn't ask for a source. Was just an observation that I noted.

 

[same_old]

diet and patience is the simple answer. T3 with clen and anavar work for just about everyone, but they arent without their risks.

 

[Vtaper]

hurricane, how long have you been training for?

 

[glenihan]

I have a pretty good understanding of proper diet, most definitely more so than the average newbie asking what supps or drugs to take.
I would use drugs to achieve goals faster in conjunction with a sound diet and training protocol, then would ensure proper PCT and post-cycle diet and training as well.

I guess it depends on interpretation..I just kind of mentioned that comment about the nolva, I didn't ask for a source. Was just an observation that I noted.

man no offense but if you had a good understanding of proper diet you wouldn't be 200 and 20% bf

drugs will NEVER make up for shitty diet and training

and you say people who don't need drugs use them .. so therefore so will i .. well if everyone jumped off the brooklyn bridge, would you do it as well?

instead of wasting your money on drugs .. hire bobo you'll learn a ton about how to diet and will get infinitely better results than trying to do it on your own

 

[punta]

man no offense but if you had a good understanding of proper diet you wouldn't be 200 and 20% bf

drugs will NEVER make up for shitty diet and training

and you say people who don't need drugs use them .. so therefore so will i .. well if everyone jumped off the brooklyn bridge, would you do it as well?

instead of wasting your money on drugs .. hire bobo you'll learn a ton about how to diet and will get infinitely better results than trying to do it on your own

:goodpost:

 

[hurricane]

diet and patience is the simple answer. T3 with clen and anavar work for just about everyone, but they arent without their risks.

This is a response more like what I was hoping for.

I do realize that I probably do have the capacity as long as I apply myself to reach my goals without the use of drugs, but like many others, I was looking for a quicker way to help me reach those goals by personal choice, which is the reason I am asking, to further my knowledge and educate myself.

hurricane, how long have you been training for?

This one is a bit harder for me to respond to. I was a real fat ass in high school, but I started training my senior year, and worked up to a 385 squat max. I didn't keep going after that, and while I'm sure my squat RM is improving, I'm almost certain I am nowhere close to my old max. I think a couple weeks back I repped 225 for 6-8, and it seemed to be just right for the weight/reps.
But back to the question--I would say for a few years..I am not too sure how much of that is seriously or actually properly. I have much more knowledge on proper diet/training now than when I started, which I knew nothing at the time.

man no offense but if you had a good understanding of proper diet you wouldn't be 200 and 20% bf

drugs will NEVER make up for shitty diet and training

and you say people who don't need drugs use them .. so therefore so will i .. well if everyone jumped off the brooklyn bridge, would you do it as well?

instead of wasting your money on drugs .. hire bobo you'll learn a ton about how to diet and will get infinitely better results than trying to do it on your own

Hey none taken. I can understand why I'm getting this type of response. Well, what can I say, other than that I've been experimenting/learning/tweaking from using different diet and training for about a year now, and I will admit that I'm just now finally starting to understand role of nutrition, what can be manipulated to produce a given effect/result, etc.

While I believe your response is still a bit on the extreme side--I would debate in saying that there are going to be people who use without perfect diet or perfect training, yet they will still achieve results. I don't plan to be one of those people whatsoever, if I'm going to use, I'm going to get maximum results through a strict diet and a solid training program.

I've experimented with basic iso-caloric at maintenance, deficit, I've found PSMF to be very effective in stripping water and fat, I gave TKD a shot for about a month and didn't feel it was right for me, etc.

--

Anyway, appreciate the responses thus far. I'm still open for people to respond to the original post however so at least I can learn and make my own decision after being equipped with knowledge.

 

[JonesersRX7]

I think you are looking for help in the wrong place. I think you are trying to put a band-aid on a gaping neck wound.

You are fat and doing any type of AAS or other **** to f up your thyroid is not smart. You can't get your diet straight so you probably won't get anything else you put in your body right until the diet is straight.

Stop being lazy. AAS are not short cuts. You have only read a "couple articles" for a "couple hours". This site alone should keep you busy for at least a month... and that's just this site.

You can think i'm an ass or... take the advice others are giving you and be better off.

 

[shootmeagain]

You can think i'm an ass or... take the advice others are giving you and be better off.

Or both.

:head:

:lol:

 

[B5150]

MINIMUM Goals: Reach 10% or less bf while retaining as much current LBM as possible--anything better, such as reaching lower bf or gaining LBM is more than welcome

Any sort of guidance and information on what would be best to implement in this situation is greatly appreciated. If this isn't the right place to ask, please direct me to where it would be more appropriate.

Unless you have been lean before you have no idea what your set point is going to be. Many have a natural set point that is above 10%. At 200lbs and 20% bf you have a considerable amount of fat to loose. With the correct eating and training habits this is very easily attainable without any drugs whatsoever. These same correct habits will allow you to attain some new LBM along the way. Quite honestly you are not fit, regardless of what you believe you have been doing, and when done right for about a year you will get there.

Drugs will get you there quicker and when you stop using them you will fall right out just as quick or quicker. Drugs are use in the event that you have hit at or about your set-point and are unable to break it. Even then once they are discontinued you will meet or exceede your set-point again.

In your shape, a good diet and train program will get you where you need to be without drugs. Live it, learn it and see where it gets you.

JMHOFMPE

 

[hurricane]

Am I looking for help in the wrong place, really? I feel that many share your opinion, that I shouldn't use at the moment, some people have explained why and I understand where there are coming from, however many others are making assumptions and then saying I shouldn't use.
Then there are others who will either just give me the information I am giving for, or at least ask me questions about background and such to get a better understanding of if I should try using or not.

As I've explained, I've been learning what manipulating diet can do for the past year or more. And I am pretty comfortable in saying that I am sure I could reach my goals without the use of any drugs knowing what I know at the moment about nutrition and training. That was the plan anyway, I want to be cut as **** by June '06 or earlier if possible.
I'm on day 3 of a 2 week PSMF cycle to kick start a moderate cutting diet.

I don't think you're an ass at all, everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just ask that they reach this opinion by taking everything into consideration and not making any assumptions whatsoever.

 

[glenihan]

i'm just gonna repeat this one more time .. i GUARANTEE you will lose more weight with bobo then you will on your own with drugs

its money that is much much better spent .. if i had any idea of your level of dedication and knew more about you i would tell you that i would PAY for bobo if you used him for 16 weeks and did not see DRASTIC changes .. but since you have 5 posts and don't know you from a hole in the head i'm not going to make that wager lol

seriously though with dedication and bobo you'll make all the leaps you need while learning way more than you could imagine and not fucking your body up

 

[hurricane]

Hey B, I know of you from AvantLabs boards, appreciate the response.

I haven't been lean before, I've never seen my abs. The goal, before I sparked interest in using for extra assistance on top of a sound diet and training program, was to basically be ripped by June '06.
I'm pretty comfortable in saying that with what I know now, I can probably achieve this without the use of drugs.

I do realize drugs will get me there quicker, which is what caused my interest in the first place, but are you saying that if I were to achieve 10% or so, and after doing proper PCT and proper post-cycle training/diet, and continued to eat and train properly after that fact, I will automatically get fat again once off the drugs?

What drugs are we talking about? I'm fine with people giving opinions, I just want them to take everything into consideration and not make any assumptions.

So far most of the responses here and a couple other boards have been similar, but I'm hearing that if I'm busting ass in the gym correctly and eating right, then Clen or Albuterol may be of help.

So let's get even more specific, say I follow strict diet and bust my ass in the gym and I use Clen or Albuterol at moderate dosing, and I reach my goals quicker than I would without the drug(s). What your saying still applies? And I still mean if PCT and post-cycle is done properly, etc.

I guess what I'm looking for an approach similar to the one Lyle McDonald took about addressing crash dieting in his PSMF book. Although he would prefer people not to in an ideal world, realistically, people are still going to crash diet.

I just want to know assuming diet and training are in check, what drug would help me achieve them even faster? And like I said in the original post, I would rather not inject, etc. Nor am I looking to add a lot of size. I just want to shed bodyfat at the moment. Once I am lean, I will decide if I want to bulk.
I am not going to bulk until I have reached my standards of lean. I know I will have to go through hell to cut if I bulk and gain a shitload of fat, which is prone to happen to fatter people as opposed to leaner people.

 

[bda55]

Hey glen I'm pretty dedicated... plz plz plz

 

[hurricane]

i'm just gonna repeat this one more time .. i GUARANTEE you will lose more weight with bobo then you will on your own with drugs

its money that is much much better spent .. if i had any idea of your level of dedication and knew more about you i would tell you that i would PAY for bobo if you used him for 16 weeks and did not see DRASTIC changes .. but since you have 5 posts and don't know you from a hole in the head i'm not going to make that wager lol

seriously though with dedication and bobo you'll make all the leaps you need while learning way more than you could imagine and not fucking your body up

While I am still interested in learning more about the topic I brought up in my original post, how much does it cost to hire BOBO, and why exactly should I hire him? Why should I hire him over someone like Lyle McDonald? What are his credentials?

 

[glenihan]

well in bobo's training forum there is a thread with before and after pics ... having used bobo myself i can tell you he is phenomenal .. VERY VERY VERY well learned in this area .. i don't know his exact credentials to share i'm sorry .. but i've seen what he did for me and lots of other people .. definitely worth it

i forget off hand how much it costs 300ish sounds about right though .. check out bobo's training forum

 

[snakebyte05]

Am I looking for help in the wrong place, really? I feel that many share your opinion, that I shouldn't use at the moment, some people have explained why and I understand where there are coming from, however many others are making assumptions and then saying I shouldn't use.
Then there are others who will either just give me the information I am giving for, or at least ask me questions about background and such to get a better understanding of if I should try using or not.

As I've explained, I've been learning what manipulating diet can do for the past year or more. And I am pretty comfortable in saying that I am sure I could reach my goals without the use of any drugs knowing what I know at the moment about nutrition and training. That was the plan anyway, I want to be cut as **** by June '06 or earlier if possible.
I'm on day 3 of a 2 week PSMF cycle to kick start a moderate cutting diet.

I don't think you're an ass at all, everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just ask that they reach this opinion by taking everything into consideration and not making any assumptions whatsoever.

Save the drugs for later. I agree in a way with everyone. Save them for when you are closer to your goal. You will be thankful you have them for those last few pounds. When you first lose weight (being fat), you lose the most fastest, naturally. Add drugs into that, you will lose more weight more quickly, but more likely it will be muscle. YOur body is not going to lose 4lbs of fat a week, so if you can already lose 1lbs a week adding drugs in to lose another 2lbs isn't going to be fatloss but muscle loss. Another reason to wait, is because once you get downt o 10-12% you know you have your diet down better, which is why you got there, you will be more prepared to use drugs. Also I would not put in too much hope on getting to 8% bf by this summer. Yes it can be done, but it is a lot of dedication when you have much to lose, and you need to have diet and cardio down very well. YOu say you have just began to realize how changing calories can help out, well it seems you are just beginning to understand diet, which means you most likely won't achieve this by this summer while adding some muscle.

If you must use something, look around for non-stim based products, like melting point, these can help and have much less sides. Save the clen and t3 till you know what you are doing, you dont want to permanently shut down your thyroid, talk about being a fatass forever than.

 

[snakebyte05]

and you say people who don't need drugs use them .. so therefore so will i .. well if everyone jumped off the brooklyn bridge, would you do it as well?

People are using drugs and jumping off the bridge!? I AM SO FRIGIN THERE! Later LOSERS! :head:

 

[snakebyte05]

i'm just gonna repeat this one more time .. i GUARANTEE you will lose more weight with bobo then you will on your own with drugs

its money that is much much better spent .. if i had any idea of your level of dedication and knew more about you i would tell you that i would PAY for bobo if you used him for 16 weeks and did not see DRASTIC changes .. but since you have 5 posts and don't know you from a hole in the head i'm not going to make that wager lol

seriously though with dedication and bobo you'll make all the leaps you need while learning way more than you could imagine and not fucking your body up

Hey hurricane, i dont know if you know how good of advice this is. I plan on using bobo this summer. He can probably help you more than using any drugs can, plus you will learn how to diet and train right specifically for weightloss. He is probably the best money spent, I know I am planning on spending my money on him. Listen to this advice, this will get you to your goal fastest. Honestly, if you are willing to spend money on allthese drugs because you say you want the fastest results, but are not willing to spend it on bobo, you do not really want the fastest/best results, you just want an easy way out. Bobo will do it for you better and faster than drugs, its just not going to be say. I guess this is the part where you show whether you are just looking for the easy way out (like so many in this world) or if you really want to achieve your goal the fastest best way possible. Its up to you from here. Take the best advice givin to you, it will get you there for sure. Either way you will learn MANY other things besides just losing bf.

 

[Vtaper]

With only a few years of training, and considering your age, you will get amazing results with just proper training and diet. Drugs like clen and t3 simply make your body burn more calories, which you can achieve by eating smaller meals, more often; and by doing brief, intense cardio. Why anyone would use these drugs when not in the final weeks before a compitition escapes me. As far as anabolics are concerned, if you decide to use them this early on(years lifting, not age), be prepared to lose much of the gains you make, regardless of how good your pct is.

 

[B5150]

Set a realistic defecit for yourself. Maybe 500 cals a day below maint. Train and cardio. Do this for 4-6 weeks and see where it gets you. You have plenty of time. If after that you see that you are making steady progress continue as such. 1.5-2lbs aweek is a good pace, with 2 lbs being very aggressive and risking loss of LBM. I would get at a pce of about 1-1.5lbs a week without any drugs. Then, you could add a basic E/C two to three times a day if you desired. You don't need all this fancy stuff.

If you are off on your 'real' maintenance calories you will have a struggle reaching your goal, as you will either over eat or under eat. If your training is lacking you will also run into problems. I know you say you have these in check...but the proof is in the pudding. Youhave time, and can learn and adjust, and learn again. Which is what is adviseable for you own lifestyle developing skills. If you need to have the results...you may need to have someone who is an 'expert' at training people for the goals you have in mind. For me...I like to learn. I get better every time. If I need to get ripped for a competition or some other goal thathas exceeded my my current capacity to achieve on my own I would ask for help from an expert.

 

[juggernaut2005]

I think you are looking for help in the wrong place. I think you are trying to put a band-aid on a gaping neck wound.

You are fat and doing any type of AAS or other **** to f up your thyroid is not smart. You can't get your diet straight so you probably won't get anything else you put in your body right until the diet is straight.

Stop being lazy. AAS are not short cuts. You have only read a "couple articles" for a "couple hours". This site alone should keep you busy for at least a month... and that's just this site.

You can think i'm an ass or... take the advice others are giving you and be better off.

maybe I should post this here.. I'm also in the same category with the poster.. im 6'3, 320 and 20%bf.. I think my bf is spread evenly but Im hoping to get to 12-14%.. I havent used any steroids and just got my diet straight last month.. started the 6small meals/day but ive been lifting since 1998, just tput on a lot of muscle and 20% woth of fat..lol

I posted this alreayd but would superdrol stacked with something like anabolic matrix plus a fat burner combined with excellent died/exercise be a good idea? of should I skip superdrol for cutting and just do diet??..

 

[CROWLER]

How about a combination brother.


Diet on your own til you are at 13% or 6 weeks whichever comes LAST then do the clen or whateve else you are thinking of.

I will say I don't think you have enough desire to properly diet and train. So once you are off the drugs all of the fat will come back.

So come on prove me wrong.

Say you start the clen etc now and you get to 14% and get stuck then what?????????????

NOTHING.

So diet and train properly then when/if you get stuck before 10% you can kick the clen in.



CROWLER

 

[B5150]

I do realize drugs will get me there quicker, which is what caused my interest in the first place, but are you saying that if I were to achieve 10% or so, and after doing proper PCT and proper post-cycle training/diet, and continued to eat and train properly after that fact, I will automatically get fat again once off the drugs?

What drugs are we talking about? I'm fine with people giving opinions, I just want them to take everything into consideration and not make any assumptions.

So far most of the responses here and a couple other boards have been similar, but I'm hearing that if I'm busting ass in the gym correctly and eating right, then Clen or Albuterol may be of help.

So let's get even more specific, say I follow strict diet and bust my ass in the gym and I use Clen or Albuterol at moderate dosing, and I reach my goals quicker than I would without the drug(s). What your saying still applies? And I still mean if PCT and post-cycle is done properly, etc.

These drugs will assit you by partioning nutrients or generating a calorie expenditure. Once you remove them those charcteristics are gone. So now, even if your training and diet stay the same, your expenditure is decreased and your body will return to a "set-point" at or above what it will choose (hard to say from individual to individual). The only option then is to further restrict calories or further increase expenditure to compensate for the drugs that used to do it for you before.

If you have a worthy goal to achieve in a reasonable time frame for a reasonable duration the use of drugs is a viable option once you have exhausted all other means. They are supplements, intended to supplement a solid foundation, not be a foundation in and of itself.

 

[ss01]

He's reading a book where the author recommends NOT crash-dieting and starting his diet by crash-dieting. Hm...

He doesn't seem to know about metabolic adjustments to calorie deficits...

He's 21, which means his body right now has THE BEST hormonal balance for achieving his set goals.

He thinks he knows diet because he can say "iso" and "PSMF" and "TKD"...

Seriously hurricane, doing it yourself is pretty much the only way. With a coach/trainer, yes. With drugs, no. Drugs will teach you how to be sloppy and still get some results. Learn how your body works in its NATURAL state. THEN someday when you're my age and your hormonal status isn't what it used to be, THEN consider using.

Getting ripped for June'06 is not only achievable naturally, but doing it naturally is also WHAT WILL TEACH YOU THE MOST ABOUT YOUR BODY. Now, that knowledge is truly INVALUABLE. NOTHING will EVER replace that knowledge.

Are you in this for the short run? Maybe you ought to consider that you might want to learn to BE in good shape forever and not just LOOK GOOD for next summer. The answer to that question is the answer to your question: "drugs or no?"

 

[chasec]

you need no drugs.

www.flanutrition.com

has what you need.

 

[hurricane]

ss01--Have you read Lyle's Rapid Fat Loss Handbook? If not, please stop your assumptions right there.

While I'm no expert, I never claimed that metabolism doesn't slow down when in deficit or said something that might have hinted at me assuming this. What, you don't think I know what the general role of the hypothamalus is in bodyweight regulation?

Christ, if you're going to flame me, at least get ALL of the information first and not assume **** about me. Come on man.

When did I claim to be a diet expert also? I apologize if it seemed that way, but didn't I specifically say that I feel like I am just beginning to see and understand the bigger picture, from piecing things from my experience together, on the role of proper nutrition in relation to bodybuilding?

No I'm not in this for the short run. I want to achieve at least 10% and stay there, then I'll decide if I want to add more size.

Tell me this and I will reconsider, but it MUST be true and ABSOLUTE, no maybe's about it whatsoever:

1. I implement a solid diet/training program
2. While busting ass doing #1, I add in something like Clen or Albuterol [and now I'm hearing some people mention Keto?] to accelerate the benefits of #1
3. I end the use of #2 and then I follow proper PCT and post-cycle protocol for diet/training

NOW IS #4 GOING TO BE TRUE OR FALSE OR MAYBE

4. As a result of #3, specifically the "ending the use of #2" part, I automatically gain all fat lost and/or lose LBM, etc.

--

I do agree with you that if I reach my goals naturally it will teach me most about my body. But I'm willing to sacrifice temporarily for the time being, if that #4 statement is "false" or "maybe"

--

chasec: thanks for the link. Not sure what to say for now, people are recommending Bobo, you're recommending that, and there are other similar options it seems. Not sure on which route would be best if I choose to go for this type of route.
Would rather not go this route if I'm not going the drug route though, because I will be patient and test my knowledge on proper training and diet and see if I can reach my goals on my own without coaching or drugs.

 

[CarryOnTheChaos]

amen...FLANUTRITION has exactly what you want and need for your goals...saves the drugs for tweaking later on when everything else is in order.

Is he currently taking on new clients or is he booked for a while? Cause I know he is one busy man!

regards,
COTC

 

[asap nutrition]

I hear you, and you're probably right, but reality is that it is likely that most people who do use drugs don't "really" need them--they choose to use for their own reasons, whether reasonable or not.

Would still like to discuss the topic at hand however.

Another thing that apparantly I am not informed about..in this "guide"

http://www.avantlabs.com/magmain.php?issueID=24&pageID=300

It states that PCT (tamoxifen) is $10 in bulk powder form. I'm only finding liquid forms that are 1000mg for $45

If you just wish to shred then I would add maybe EQ, Test propionate and winstrol as AAS and T-3, ephedrine and DNP as fat loss aids.

 

[B5150]

NOW IS #4 GOING TO BE TRUE OR FALSE OR MAYBE

4. As a result of #3, specifically the "ending the use of #2" part, I automatically gain all fat lost....


.....But I'm willing to sacrifice temporarily for the time being, if that #4 statement is "false" or "maybe"

re-read what I wrote about the drugs.

The answer is most likely that you will gain back a reasonable amount of fat...unless you can offset the effects that these drugs did for you by some other means.

 

[CarryOnTheChaos]

please do yourself the largest favor and do NOT consider DNP until your diet and training are in order as one of the major possibilities with DNP if not dosed properly and taken with the proper pre-cautions can be death.

regards,
COTC

 

[bda55]

chasec: thanks for the link. Not sure what to say for now, people are recommending Bobo, you're recommending that, and there are other similar options it seems.

FYI, Bobo = FLA Nutrition

 

[dwass]

Hurricane, you're wanting what everybody around our age wants - results yesterday. Trust me... every young guy wants to be friggen jacked and we've all thought about taking the short cuts.

I'll try to get pics of what I'm talking about, but just have fun with the story for now... one of my best friends from high school had been downright fat all his life. He came in freshman year at around 180lbs (5'9 endomorph) and by the time he reached the halfway point of his freshman year in college, he was the same height and 235lbs. From Jan 1 to the time I got back from school (beginning of may) he had cut to 185lbs and gained strength. Right now, he's at about 182lbs, squats 225 for reps, benches 205 for reps, and deadlifts 315 for reps. He has abs, but hasn't ran or done crunches since about July. Just think about that - he used to have tits and now he has abs, and that's purely from his diet.

What did he use? The standard 2,000kcal diet with a bit of the carb calories put towards protein. The only things that entered his body that weren't "real" food were protein shakes and 200mg caffeine anhydrous before cardio.

And you're right - very few people need AAS, but everybody here is in aggreance that you should be at least a little closer to your genetic potential before you start cycling anything.

Work a bit harder on the diet and training aspect - hell, hire Bobo if you're really serious about it. With either of those choices, you're going to get better - and longer lasting - results than with AAS right now... and it will undoubtedly be much cheaper for what you gain.

 

[Bobby Nevada]

Hurricane, the problem with your desired approach to reaching your goal is that you won't really know whether you are losing weight due to drugs and a mediocre diet and training, or whether you have the diet and training down correctly.

Prove to yourself (and us) that you do have your diet and training proper by getting close to your goal. You may have intellectual knowledge of proper dieting and training, but you don't have applied knowledge in these fields.

 

[ss01]

Hurricane, the problem with your desired approach to reaching your goal is that you won't really know whether you are losing weight due to drugs and a mediocre diet and training, or whether you have the diet and training down correctly.

Prove to yourself (and us) that you do have your diet and training proper by getting close to your goal. You may have intellectual knowledge of proper dieting and training, but you don't have applied knowledge in these fields.

:clap2:

 

[chasec]

hey hurricane bobo runs flanutrition.com; it's his company...

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Diet, Cardio and Ephedra. In that order...
Don't start screwing around with T3 or clen until you have your diet down - or you're asking for trouble.