need help

[oldskoolbb]

I have been training off and on for 20 years. more on than off. And yes I am getting old.I have never done a cycle. The only supplements I hae ever used that worked was phosphagen. And it worked well. I am 6' 260lbs. bf is 26% and falling. chest 51. arms 18.5 legs 27. waiste 39. I am very gifted genetically. But fat does not go away easily anymore. I have decided to do a ph cycle. then a real cycle. I am tired of looking at these young guys who have a trained a year or 2 if that and then get some gear and walk around like they are gods gift. Just because they put on some size in 3 months. So for the ph this is what I was thinking:

ergo 1 ad and 4ad-4weeks how much?

I know what to eat. What else do I need for during and pct.

Then after some recover time I am going to start real gear. suggestions on this?

 

[oldskoolbb]

oh most of the body fat is in the waist . I have been 238 with a 34 waiste at 11% bf. and i forgot to say I am using phosphagen , cytodyne efx, fish and flax and my weight is going up and bf is going down. been training hard for last 2 months and strict diet. once I am done with phosphagen I want to start PH's..

 

[KD1]

Why bother doing PH's if you cant see your muscles? Get in shape first so you can actually measure your gains. At least down to 238 where you were close to 10% BF. You need at least 6-8 months of a good diet before you can accurately gauge where you are anyhow.

 

[tattoopierced1]

why not try some cutting supps like Melting Point to get rid of some of the fat and then re-assess where you are at and what goals you want. JMO.

 

[oldskoolbb]

6-8 months is a little long..I did not plan on starting anything until BF is down between 10-13%. BF % has not been checked in 6 weeks. Going to have it checked again on friday. Bloodwork is being done tomorrow. I am estimating bf at 18% presently 6 more weeks of dieting and training should get me close to 10 %. weight should come in at 240-250. my diet is ultra strict. has been for 9 weeks. almost precontest except for the carbs.

 

[oldskoolbb]

who makes melting point. is it any better than xenadrine efx? been using the efx for 3 weeks now it does give me an energy boost. but with the excess fat i have now it is hard to tell if it is helping the fat loss. especially since diet is strict and I am increasing cardio.

 

[sctxms]

Why bother doing PH's if you cant see your muscles? Get in shape first so you can actually measure your gains. At least down to 238 where you were close to 10% BF. You need at least 6-8 months of a good diet before you can accurately gauge where you are anyhow.

If you has read his post you would notice he is taking efx which is a diet supp. I run around 14 to 16% body fat and can see my muscle u sound like a jerk to a guy who is only seeking advice. FYI power lifters generaly don't get bellow 15% BF. I know this guy and trust me his arms are most likely the size of your legs and he just started back and he already pushing over 300 on bench. with stict diet he can still drop bf and add muscle. I have gone from 22% bf and with out loosing strength dieted down to 15% for lifting comps

 

[KD1]

If you has read his post you would notice he is taking efx which is a diet supp. I run around 14 to 16% body fat and can see my muscle u sound like a jerk to a guy who is only seeking advice. FYI power lifters generaly don't get bellow 15% BF. I know this guy and trust me his arms are most likely the size of your legs and he just started back and he already pushing over 300 on bench. with stict diet he can still drop bf and add muscle. I have gone from 22% bf and with out loosing strength dieted down to 15% for lifting comps

Im not trying to be a jerk, Im trying to help the guy get the most out of his cycle and believe me if he just bulks up on PHs right now he wont look nearly as good as if he has decent definition first.

If he is your friend be honest with him and let him get in shape before using AAS or PHs. Only 9 weeks in - he will be making great gains for months without these drugs.

 

[sctxms]

I understand were you are coming from but with a good diet, ph, efx, and LDEX he can still drop wieght with out loosing strength or size. Plus trust me on this one most of his wieght is in his gut. I would guess or approach is different with ph. I like to use them when cutting or bulking it is just a matter of my diet that dictates wieght and strength gain versus wieght lost and maintain strength.

 

[oldskoolbb]

9 weeks in after a 3 month layoff. 20 years of training. Muscle memory works fast after a layoff. So you can usually attain your best size and strengeth in 3-4 months. I had major knee surgery back in 87. 5 months on crutches complete atrophy of right leg. after 2 months of rehab doc couldn't believe how it came back. It was actually larger than pre surgery . That is muscle memory. So I am not far from reaching plateaus. When I stated my original bf it is accurate. A lot of guys think they are 8 or 9 % but they are not even close. True 8 and 9 % is lean very lean. top ifbb guys coming into shows 3-4 % and that is with the help of a lot drugs.

 

[sctxms]

No way I thought those guys were all natural just really good genitics

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

I would use 300mg 1ad with 400mg 4ad(trans) and do a cutting cycle like someone else mentioned. this would help you keep muscle while dropping the fat. I only do cutters while on ph. losing weight is not a problem for me keeping muscle and gaining muscle is the problem. you already said your diet is right on so I wont lecture there. pct get some lean extreme, rebound xt, fenugreek. do some reading to figure out doses pct and when to take these supps.

 

[KD1]

I just think you will look a lot better at a ripped 6' 250 w/a 32 in waist than a bulked up 300 w/a 40 incher, which is very possible if you have good growth genetics and you start cycling now. But if you want to go for the powerlifting type physique I guess thats a gameplan.

 

[oldskoolbb]

Bloddwork is done thyroid is still low ..not real low but low. doc said going to give me a something to boost it a little. explains why midsection is bigger than it use to be and slower coming off. My powerlifter build comes from training for football. But I have been bodybuilding for the last 10 years. I don't lift real heavy anymore. To many injuries. You younger guys will find out as you get older your joints hurt worse from training than your muscles. Still lifting heavy is a MUST for putting on Size. Especially if your natural. And diet too. Thanks for the replies guys . I have been in the game for a long time but I am starting a new phase and I do not have a lot of knowledge on this subject. I will post pics and stats after I get started. Which will be about 6 more weeks.