Superdrol + Pheraplex = Hypo

chasec

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I started wednesday on a 30mg SD & 20mg PP cycle to ease back into anabolics. I can allready feel some mild side effects which excite me, because i've been clean ~5 months now. I'm starting to get an increased pump, not a "bigger" pump per se, but it lasts for a good hour and a half after my workout. What I really wanted to report on is the hypoglycemia i'm experiencing between meals. I'm currently eating a 45/30/25 split of carbs, protein, fat. With a meal every 3 hours, i shouldn't be experiencing what I am. All the classic signs of going hypo are present, and it gets worse when i stand up. I broke down and drand a 12 oz coke today to get my blood glucose levels back up. This is really out of character for me, as normally I follow a very low glycemic load diet. My normal fasting glucose level is in the low 80's; which is quite normal.

Anyways, just thought any diabetics who are thinking of trying either product should be aware of this and keep some simple sugars around in a liquid solution for safety
 
julius kelp

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the sd gave me little head spins last cycle when i had carbs low. i'm keeping them at 40% this time, feel much better. it's almost like it strips the sugar from your blood to fill your muscles!
 

Siznoyton

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Thanks for the info. I have found this to be true from many anabolics. Good for everyone to be aware, especially those with a predisposition for hypo (like me).
 

SilentScream27

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I started wednesday on a 30mg SD & 20mg PP cycle to ease back into anabolics. I can allready feel some mild side effects which excite me, because i've been clean ~5 months now. I'm starting to get an increased pump, not a "bigger" pump per se, but it lasts for a good hour and a half after my workout. What I really wanted to report on is the hypoglycemia i'm experiencing between meals. I'm currently eating a 45/30/25 split of carbs, protein, fat. With a meal every 3 hours, i shouldn't be experiencing what I am. All the classic signs of going hypo are present, and it gets worse when i stand up. I broke down and drand a 12 oz coke today to get my blood glucose levels back up. This is really out of character for me, as normally I follow a very low glycemic load diet. My normal fasting glucose level is in the low 80's; which is quite normal.

Anyways, just thought any diabetics who are thinking of trying either product should be aware of this and keep some simple sugars around in a liquid solution for safety
You're going to have to eat a lot more carbs on both of these methyls. Plan it and add it into the diet... it's (supposedly) going straight to glycogen , so don't be afraid of an extra 500-1000 carb calories, especially if you are still getting hypo feelings.
 
DR.D

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I keep dextrose tabs around too, but it hasn't happened in awhile. Stronger anabolics will do this a lot it seems. It helps keep GH levels high, but if you can't function normally, that's not good. If you don't mind, could you monitor your sugar levels just so that we could deterime some dose/blood sugar/time correlations? I'd offer you some supps for it, but AX controls PP and SD testers now. You may have to manipulate carbs as a long term cycle strategy.
 
Rhyalus

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Type II diabetic here.

SD alone lowered morning fasting BG by about 15 mg/dl on average. I won't be doing PP any time soon.

I think type I folks using insulin will have the biggest concerns. Most of the meds for type IIs these days does not send you hypo.

I can't complain - but the lethargy definitely requires more carbs. I found oatmeal, bananas and whole wheat bagels to be very helpful. I also had a bag of organic banana chips in the house for when I got that tired feeling.

Regards,
R
 

wheels

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hello chasec

I started wednesday on a 30mg SD & 20mg PP cycle to ease back into anabolics. I can allready feel some mild side effects which excite me, because i've been clean ~5 months now. I'm starting to get an increased pump, not a "bigger" pump per se, but it lasts for a good hour and a half after my workout. What I really wanted to report on is the hypoglycemia i'm experiencing between meals. I'm currently eating a 45/30/25 split of carbs, protein, fat. With a meal every 3 hours, i shouldn't be experiencing what I am. All the classic signs of going hypo are present, and it gets worse when i stand up. I broke down and drand a 12 oz coke today to get my blood glucose levels back up. This is really out of character for me, as normally I follow a very low glycemic load diet. My normal fasting glucose level is in the low 80's; which is quite normal.

Anyways, just thought any diabetics who are thinking of trying either product should be aware of this and keep some simple sugars around in a liquid solution for safety
.WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD KEEP ME POSTED ON ALL YOUR SIDES AND GAINS FORM THIS STACK,THINKING ABOUT RUNNING SAME STACK ON MY NEXT CYCLE IN OCT.
 
dertynasty

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Type II diabetic here.

SD alone lowered morning fasting BG by about 15 mg/dl on average. I won't be doing PP any time soon.

I think type I folks using insulin will have the biggest concerns. Most of the meds for type IIs these days does not send you hypo.

I can't complain - but the lethargy definitely requires more carbs. I found oatmeal, bananas and whole wheat bagels to be very helpful. I also had a bag of organic banana chips in the house for when I got that tired feeling.

Regards,
R
Sorry to take the thread off topic for a sec.... but what is in ur avatar Rhyalus, ive always wondered
 
CDB

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You're going to have to eat a lot more carbs on both of these methyls. Plan it and add it into the diet... it's (supposedly) going straight to glycogen , so don't be afraid of an extra 500-1000 carb calories, especially if you are still getting hypo feelings.
In other words, nachos.

For those who don't mind going unclean for a little bit.
 
DR.D

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You guys are the reason I have to take appetite suppessants! All this talk of junk food... :lol:
 
Rhyalus

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Sorry to take the thread off topic for a sec.... but what is in ur avatar Rhyalus, ive always wondered
That, my friend, is my herniated disc at L3/L4 (and a minor one at L4/L5).

Imagine a cut away view of me from the left side, chopping me in two halves, left and right. My front is to your left.

If you see the bones that make up the spine, between them is a nice cushion of material that is not supposed to be sticking out and pressing against the spinal cord. I should probably edit that file with a circle to show the problem.

Regards,
R
 

ss01

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Rhyalus, I've had a similar one at L4/L5 about 13 years ago. The disc was pressing so hard agaiinst my spine and the way things were misaligned, the doc said if I ever lifted weights again, I would be in a wheelchair for life.

2 years later I was doing deadlifts with 405. Whenever I would stop training for more than a few days, the hernia pain came back. It doesn't usually do that anymore. Just to tell you, whatever the doc tells you, don't lose faith in what you can or cannot do... :)

Oh, and about hypoglycemia : if your liver is full of glycogen, it's more difficult to send you in hypoglycemia. One good way to ensure liver glycogen replenishment is to eat some fructose. Your liver will gradually release the glycogen into your bloodstream whenever the level goes too low. It's a good way to avoid going hypo without going too high on calories, while you're cutting, for example...
 

chasec

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You're going to have to eat a lot more carbs on both of these methyls. Plan it and add it into the diet... it's (supposedly) going straight to glycogen , so don't be afraid of an extra 500-1000 carb calories, especially if you are still getting hypo feelings.
i'm not going to touch my diet for several reasons; 1 being that i'm allready running a 1000kcal surplus/day. although it does sound like a good idea, i'm going to leave it alone also and monitor my blood glucose levels for Dr. D.

oh, hey Dr. D, don't worry about the supps; i've allready got the whole cycle bought anyways. this one is interesting to me also
 
supersoldier

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Back when I was on M1T, SD, 1T-cyp, ect, my Glucose was frequently in the 50s-60s. Even post-workout after I ate over 100g CHO from whole oats.
 

chasec

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An hour after my workout tonight my blood sugar was 67. This is a pretty significant drop considering that i ingested 80g carbs (blend of oats, malto, fructose) and 40g whey in 20oz milk. so, i'll keep updating as i go. i'll post my morning reading in the AM tomorrow
 
DR.D

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An hour after my workout tonight my blood sugar was 67. This is a pretty significant drop considering that i ingested 80g carbs (blend of oats, malto, fructose) and 40g whey in 20oz milk. so, i'll keep updating as i go. i'll post my morning reading in the AM tomorrow
Thanks for the good data my friend, it is appreciated. Sounds like lots of guys here have a similar issue.

Is there no good way to treat chronic hypo as a long term strategy? Complex carbs and fructose don't seem to be doing the trick.
 

size

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An hour after my workout tonight my blood sugar was 67. This is a pretty significant drop considering that i ingested 80g carbs (blend of oats, malto, fructose) and 40g whey in 20oz milk. so, i'll keep updating as i go. i'll post my morning reading in the AM tomorrow
Definitely keep following this if possible. Best of luck and make carbs your new friend.
 

chasec

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morning reading is a 75. that's before dosing though. i'll give you an afternoon reading tonight
 

MarcusG

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Is being hypo symptom of impaired liver function while on SD? I think Bobo mentioned it could be a possibility since the liver regulates glucose levels.
m1t had worse or similar symptoms.
 

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morning reading is a 75. that's before dosing though. i'll give you an afternoon reading tonight
Is there any chance you could keep a full log of Your SD/PP cycle. I'm interested in this as well.
 
bigpetefox

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I wouldn't mind the dip in blood sugar since mine is always usually over 210.. I've been reading alot of threads, and the blood sugar issue with SD seems to come up quite often..
 
jonny21

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I wouldn't mind the dip in blood sugar since mine is always usually over 210.. I've been reading alot of threads, and the blood sugar issue with SD seems to come up quite often..
What do you take for background insulin? Lantus/NPH? Do you bolus for meals? Or are you on orals?
 
bigpetefox

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Metformin extended release generic, 500mg 2x ED.. I only use Humalog if my doc feels my blood glucose is too high.. I don't know too much about what I should be doing truthfully, I just took the news and the script, and said "I got the diet under control.".. Only been a year since I found out, I'm learning new things about myself everyday because of this..
 
jonny21

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This is what I found out working in hospitals. Doctors aren't really sure which oral to give patients. It is trial by error. Metformin is usually the first one given since it has a dual action mechanism. The primary is on the liver and the second is on peripheral insulin sensitivity. A little unsolicited advice, ask your doctor to re-evaluate your meds. 210 as a normal BS is too high. Shoot for some Lantus. 1 shot in am (maybe 1 in pm) and you are good for the day. Elevated BS's wreak havoc on the kidneys and vascular system. I am amazed at how many people I see with CRI s'dary to poorly/loosely controlled diabetes. Not saying that you are poorly controlled, its just that below 150 would be better, 120 even better, ~100 ideal. just my .02
 
DR.D

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I haven't tried Met but always did well with Diabeta 2.5mg divided in 2 daily doses.

Big Pete, you should try some SD on your next cycle. It may cover 2 bases for you from the sound of it. It's real nice on the skin too.
 
bigpetefox

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This is what I found out working in hospitals. Doctors aren't really sure which oral to give patients. It is trial by error. Metformin is usually the first one given since it has a dual action mechanism. The primary is on the liver and the second is on peripheral insulin sensitivity. A little unsolicited advice, ask your doctor to re-evaluate your meds. 210 as a normal BS is too high. Shoot for some Lantus. 1 shot in am (maybe 1 in pm) and you are good for the day. Elevated BS's wreak havoc on the kidneys and vascular system. I am amazed at how many people I see with CRI s'dary to poorly/loosely controlled diabetes. Not saying that you are poorly controlled, its just that below 150 would be better, 120 even better, ~100 ideal. just my .02
Thanks, I'll check it out.. They had me on Glipdizide(however you spell Glucotrol's chemical name) and it screwed with my blood pressure..
 

chasec

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Ok, today i ate like a fucking pig. Pancake breakfast, buffet dinner, you know the drill. My blood sugar got as high as 113 after breakfast, dipped as low as 64 after my workout and right now an hour and a half after my last meal is sitting at 72.

On a related note, this quasi-cycle is going well. I'm up 6 lbs in 5 days and have no appreciable bloat what so ever. Glycogen replenishment is great for the ego, heh?
 
jonny21

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An hour after my workout tonight my blood sugar was 67. This is a pretty significant drop considering that i ingested 80g carbs (blend of oats, malto, fructose) and 40g whey in 20oz milk. so, i'll keep updating as i go. i'll post my morning reading in the AM tomorrow
Are you diabetic? If so, are you taking any meds?
 

chasec

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Are you diabetic? If so, are you taking any meds?
no, however my family is predisposed genetically to diabetes. i'm trying to prevent ever becoming a diabetic by maintaining a clean diet. just to clarify, the reaction i'm having to the SD&PP isn't worrying me. it just interests me and i thought if anybody else were a diabetic it could help them to know a potential side effect. also, don't think that the hypoglycemia is limited to these 2 anabolics. any strong anabolic produces this effect in me
 
jonny21

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Thanks for taking the time to to post all this info.
 

same_old

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ergomax made me incredibly hypo; far more than did SuperDrol and i had the exact same diet on both. i do have a MILD predisposition to it.
 

diminuendo

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I was doing low-carb for about two and a half years before SD and had to stop while I was cycling since the hypo was so intense. I felt like every milligram of glycogen and glucose in my blood stream was being pumped into my muscles. I found the magic drink for me was a Pomwonderful pomegranite drink. Pricey, but tasty nutritious and glycemic index is super-high for me. It works more quickly than anything else for hypo. The shakes vanish, my face flushes and turns red hot, and my scalp sweats, and the pump goes through the roof...Dim
 
wildman536

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a remedy for that would be a Sonic Blast (only once in a while though) lol. tried it today took a SD then hit up sonic (a Cheat Meal)

i could feel a difference.
 
bigpetefox

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I have plenty of Ultra Fuel and Carbo Force if i need it.. :)
 

chasec

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wow, my morning reading was a 56 today. that's really, really low
 

chasec

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oh, to clarify that was AFTER morning cardio...
 
wildman536

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oh, to clarify that was AFTER morning cardio...
well yeah if you hadnt had anything (Nutrientwise) depending on the intensity of the cardio you would be low but i dont know specifics on how low.

BTW- thanks for keeping us informed!!
 
jonny21

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oh, to clarify that was AFTER morning cardio...
Did you eat prior to Cardio? It's sounding like BG regulation is off. Maybe SD does have an impact on liver glycogenolysis in addition to/instead of peripheral glycogen storage. Someone made mention of this in prior postings, some theory a'la Bobo.
 

chasec

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Did you eat prior to Cardio? It's sounding like BG regulation is off. Maybe SD does have an impact on liver glycogenolysis in addition to/instead of peripheral glycogen storage. Someone made mention of this in prior postings, some theory a'la Bobo.
20g whey, 4g CEE in water (tastes like, well, use your imagination)

the theory on SD impacting glycogenolysis probably isn't too far off base.
 
jonny21

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20g whey, 4g CEE in water (tastes like, well, use your imagination)

the theory on SD impacting glycogenolysis probably isn't too far off base.
I am not too sure that is the case after reading this. I would expect your BS to be low after am cardio on an already glycogen depleted liver. If you had replenished glycogen stores prior to cardio and then came back with a low that would be out of the norm. If you don't mind be a guinea pig :D, try 45-60 grams of carbs 2 hrs prior to cardio and then check the BS. That way we know you had some liver glycogen to work with in the first place.
 

ss01

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Your liver glycogen will replenish best if you use fructose...
 
jonny21

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Your liver glycogen will replenish best if you use fructose...
Any proof for this? I know fructose has to metabolized in the liver due to an enzyme issue. I thought it took more work and time to convert fructose to glucose/glycogen. That is why it does not raise BS levels as quick as other monosaccharides. Facts supporting your statement would be appreciated. Inquiring minds like to know.
 

ss01

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Maybe you can do a search on pubmed if you want some research, I don't know if there's any, it is fairly basic knowledge that fructose replenishes liver glycogen before anything else.

Fructose isn't metabolised as sugar by most tissue. Only the liver can turn the fructose into glucose. That is how it replenishes its glycogen stores first. Dextrose, OTOH, goes to your bloodstream, which is OK, but too much of it will trigger insulin, and it is absorbed by ALL tissue, which makes dosing for keeping the glycemia up much more difficult than using fructose. You might use some of both...

The reason why it doesn't raise blood sugar as quick as the other ones is that the liver watches glycemia and will only release new glucose from fructose IF glycemia is low enough. It is a comparatively slow process, but that's good. In other words, I'd much rather have my liver gradually release glucose into my bloodstream when I'm close to hypo than have to ingest slow/medium/fast carbs all the time and risk triggering insulin while also being on hypoglycemia inducing supplements.........

Oh, and the work involved for the liver is EXTREMELY trivial. Don't worry about THOSE enzymes... Worry about the ones trying to metabolize your methylated steroids...
 

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