Anabolic Steroids and Collagen production
- 08-19-2005, 03:00 PM
Anabolic Steroids and Collagen production
I've been wondering about certain aas and their effect on collagen production. I know that winny, anavar, deca, eq, and primo all have positive effects on collagen production, also another one of the reasons rHGH is so important in anti-aging is because of it's effect on the increase of collagen, I was just wondering do any of you guys have info on some of the other steroids such as tren , test, dbol, abombs, anything like that?
- 08-19-2005, 03:02 PM
Well, Testosterone raises it when taken in low dose, up to about 200mg/wk (Test E or Cyp). Doses past that it actually starts to lower production. At max dose, it lowers it by about 80%.
- 08-19-2005, 03:04 PM
Nullfidian, any links on what you're saying? I'd like to read up on that.
08-19-2005, 04:05 PM
Give me a while. I'll have to do some digging to find it, and I don't really have the time or resources for it at the moment.
08-19-2005, 04:18 PM
More collagen production equates to less chance of strechmarks right?
08-19-2005, 04:32 PM
More collagen production means less chance of joint injury, and it means stronger joints.
For steroids, EQ and Deca are the number 1 and number 2 respectively in terms of building strong joints. Primo isn't too far behind.
While winny increase collagen synthesis, it decreases cross striation of tendons and ligaments. So while the joint tissue is thicker, it becomes more brittle.
08-20-2005, 04:02 PM
Any luck on finding the source?Originally Posted by Nullifidian
08-20-2005, 07:36 PM
Been house hunting this weekend. I haven't had time for jack.
08-21-2005, 12:26 AM
There is a thread somewhere in here from several months back about this, I dont remember what the title was though. It gave the percent increase/decrease in collagen synthesis for several steroids. Just as Nullifidan said, Deca #1, EQ #2, and primo #3. I know high doses of test do lower it, but I dont know of any studies off hand to prove this.
08-21-2005, 10:25 AM
Do a search on this, I've posted an article which gives the complete lowdown on this a couple of times.
08-21-2005, 10:27 AM
Here it is again
"While injecting test increases protein syntesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.
Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.
Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen syn while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.
Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.
You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.
Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.
While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.
To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.
Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood
Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.
Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.
Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.
These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:
Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days
Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.
GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.
Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.
Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.
08-21-2005, 11:07 AM
I read the above post many times before and it probably been posted multiple times to every bodybuilding board but the source of the data has never been revealed. The numbers are just thrown out like confetti.
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