Best cutting FIRST cycle?

[ss01]

Hello,

I've been lifting for 13 years seriously and for my 38th birthday, I thought I might get into really good shape for once. I'm 5'11", 216 lbs maybe 16% bf. I'd like to take this down to 200, maybe 195 and be nice and ripped.

I have pinned with IGF-1 but I have never taken any AAS. I now realize that it will be nearly impossible for me to get there without such help, as any time I go and do serious cardio, I turn flat and seem to lose more muscle - and motivation - than fat.

I'm training 5 times a week, keeping the workouts intense and under 60 minutes. I take in a minimum of 200g per day of protein and calories are maintenance, roughly 3000.

I've tried the anarchy stack, as well as ephedrin and although they seem to have SOME effect, I'm looking to do things without thermogenics this time around. Overall, I am very resistant to most supplements and drugs and larger-than-normal doses are usually required.

Lifts

Bench 250 x 5
Deadlift 355 x 5
Squat - Can't do them no more due to bad knee.
My arms are 17½" and I can curl 70s without cheating.

As I said, I lift 5 times a week with minimal cardio, that is 15 minutes bike each way to and from the gym. I might increase that, who knows.

Also, I plan on taking 7-oxo-dhea and formestane throughout.

Well, if you guys can help me out, that'd be just great, I'll post some Before and After pics from my webcam.

 

[Guido]

stacker2 (or if you're hardcore, clen/T3), sesathin, and test enan for 12 weeks with winstrol for the last 6. Primobolan is also great for low cal diets, but it's a little expensive. I'd go with the winny for the last 6 weeks of your 12-14 week cycle of test.

 

[Matthew D]

Arlow read the board rules

ss,
What does your diet look like?

 

[ss01]

It's clean. I eat all-organic (I don't know if I earn any points for that, but I know I have more energy since I've switched to that), 5-6 meals a day, 3 of which tend to be Just protein shakes with a banana, in order to keep the cals low. I'm not going for the super-low-fat end of things, instead trying to have a diet I can keep. So when I eat chicken, both the thigh and the breast for me. Once in a while I have cheese or peanut butter, but other than that it's lots of veggies and grains, a good bit of soy. Almost no fruit except the tomatoes. Because it's close to vegetarian, I use more whey than one might expect, because the protein from the food is a little low, no matter how much tofu I throw at my plate.

About once a week I'll have french fries, and I cheat very little. I put 3000 cals up there initially, but fitday tells me it's more like 2400, which admittedly isn't much, as they tell me my maintenance is about 3400. But I tried eating that much and I just pile the fat on. I am now on a product called "Metacort" which is 6-oxo-dhea with 7-oxo-dhea. I added some dhea to the mix to see what I would get out of that. Seems to be doing SOMETHING but I am also using the product at 3x the recommended dosage rate. And when I say "something" I mean It's nothing obvious.

I'm currently taking a bunch of things, on top of the usual multivitamin and antioxydants, I take 2000mg of ALA per day and about 3000mg of green tea extract. At night I take 3mg melatonin sublingually and 5 to 6 grams of GABA orally. That also seems to be doing something, but I expect it to take longer for me to notice than something that will cost me 100$ in a month, i.e. the metacort, which gives me 300mg 6-oxo-dhea, 300mg 7-oxo-dhea plus 200mg to 500mg DHEA added to it, depending how I feel.

 

[ss01]

Guido, you're saying Test enanthate or primobolan for 12 weeks with winstrol during the last 6?

I've read that winstrol is among the more androgenic of the compounds. Most winny users have changes in their faces as a result of that androgenicity, but I guess that might depend on dosage? Are the better compounds for cutting the more androgenic?

Also, I have all of my hair at 38, and I'd like to keep the "make-you-bald-right-away" hormones out of this... If possible?

 

[glenihan]

Guido, you're saying Test enanthate or primobolan for 12 weeks with winstrol during the last 6?

I've read that winstrol is among the more androgenic of the compounds. Most winny users have changes in their faces as a result of that androgenicity, but I guess that might depend on dosage? Are the better compounds for cutting the more androgenic?

Also, I have all of my hair at 38, and I'd like to keep the "make-you-bald-right-away" hormones out of this... If possible?

1. winstrol will NOT in anyway change your facial features
2. you will not go bald from ANY hormone UNLESS you are already prone to MPB .. at 38 and still a thick head of hair i'd venture to say you aren't

 

[brogers]

Winstrol will wreck your cholesterol profile though, from what I understand. I might opt for Anavar instead if you have the money, I believe it is much more lipid-friendly.

 

[milwood]

what dosages do you guys like for winny and var for 6 weeks at the end of this cycle?

 

[CROWLER]

IMO you have a fairly slow metabolism. I base this on the fact that you work out over 5 hours a week eat only 2400 cals and are not losing weight.

Your metabolism would be increased if you increase muscle mass.

If it were me I would do a lean bulk or what some guys call a body recomp. I now believe it is possible to gains some muscle while losing some fat.

As far as what AS to use I would do a simple Tren, Test E for 12 weeks. You could do a lean bulk and depending upon success change it to a cut.

I don't like to lable a cycle as a cut or a bulk I am bulking for a while then will cut for a week or so then go back to a bulk. I just think it is better to decide what to eat and how much based upon how you are doing and looking in the mirror, rather than set up a diet and then stick to it come hell or high water.


Good luck and let us know how it goes.


CROWLER

 

[gobig1]

Oral Turinabol - 60-80mgs ED (weeks 1-8)
Primo Enanthate - 6-800mg EW (weeks 1-12)

This is an Exceptional Lean Gaining cycle, burns fat as well on the high end of Primo as it raises your core body temp (at least it did mine). The OT is very comparable to Anavar at 1/2 the cost. This is a super low negative sides cycle as well. If your 200lbs and up, go with the high end of the dosages or maybe a little more.

 

[ss01]

I hear you Crowler. Thing is, I'm already 38, and at 216 on 5'10¾" I'm not tiny. As I get older, being freaky-huge-strong isn't that important to me anymore, instead I concentrate on being IN GOOD SHAPE because the fat just gets more and more difficult to take off. Well if something is labeled a "lean mass" cycle and I just eat a little bit less than I should, it turns into a cutting cycle, no?

gobig1 that sounds like just what I need. Do these things turn into estrogen? I already have tits I'm getting rid of, but I don't need a new set... ;-)

 

[Bobby Nevada]

Do triac plus test...or any androgen, maybe test/fina. I don't think you need to get too exotic with the andros - just something to preserve your lbm while on triac and cutting cals or eating at maintenance.

 

[ss01]

Yeah, that's what I was wondering : cut calories, expend a little more, and above all, SOMETHING TO PRESERVE THE MUSCLE. I do like gobig1's idea of primo enanthate ... Is that Primobolan Enanthate for newbs? If it'll help with the fat loss... Do I get to order some clenbuterol or is that crap?

And this triac thing, is that the full name?

 

[Blown]

triac, triacana, Trimax. type it in google and check it out..strong stuff.

 

[CROWLER]

I hear you Crowler. Thing is, I'm already 38, and at 216 on 5'10¾" I'm not tiny. As I get older, being freaky-huge-strong isn't that important to me anymore, instead I concentrate on being IN GOOD SHAPE because the fat just gets more and more difficult to take off. Well if something is labeled a "lean mass" cycle and I just eat a little bit less than I should, it turns into a cutting cycle, no?

gobig1 that sounds like just what I need. Do these things turn into estrogen? I already have tits I'm getting rid of, but I don't need a new set... ;-)

I think we are in agreement just different names for the same sort of cycle.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes. BTW I am a number of years older than you so I know what you mean about the fat gain.



CROWLER

 

[ss01]

Found some Tri-Max, yikes that stuff kicks MAJOR ass.

Did anyone try it alternating 2 days on, 2 days off? I've read somewhere that this is a lot less thyroid suppressive and gives comparable results... Using half the product!! :-D

I'm looking to go fully legal, somethin like :

Lipoderm Ultra on my tits until they vanish
Trimax 2on / 2 off -- I hear this is much less suppressive of the thyroid and gives very good results... ?
Prostanozol
E...Max LMG / Superdrol -- A few weeks of each?

PCT I am not so sure about. I have metacort (6-oxo and 7-oxo transdermal) to which I can add DHEA. Will 100mg of the oxo's and 200mg DHEA be enough? Twice that? Decreasing over time?

My log will obviously be in the prohormones section. There is a similar message over there, maybe I should just update THAT thread instead of comiing here, although your input would be VERY appreciated.

Thanks very much.