PHs vs. Real Anabolics

[chronic666]

Recently (for a few months) I have been researching various anabolics and the new pro-steroid formulas such as superdrol and ergomax LMG. What I am trying to figure out is, not the difference in strength or size gains between something like testosterone and superdrol, but rather the difference in muscle quality. From what I have read, it seems that aside from size and strength, real gear will give you a certain muscle quality that could not be obtained naturally ie. hardness/vascularity. Would taking something like superdrol produce a similar effect? Also, although I am not certain of the reason, it seems most people using real gear develop huge shoulders and traps without much effort. Again, would this be something one could expect from using something like superdrol?

 

[kwyckemynd00]

IMHO, the muscle quality is from extended durations of use, nothing more

SD and Ergomax, etc, impart great gains and are active steroids...

 

[raiderz]

I agree with that reply , both are excellent oral steroids , I see now Phera-Plex is now being released on some sites... the writeups on that one look promising

 

[T-Bone]

Ergomax is not a steroid. Its a pheramone. Superdrol is a steroid though...

 

[MarcusG]

Recently (for a few months) I have been researching various anabolics and the new pro-steroid formulas such as superdrol and ergomax LMG. What I am trying to figure out is, not the difference in strength or size gains between something like testosterone and superdrol, but rather the difference in muscle quality. From what I have read, it seems that aside from size and strength, real gear will give you a certain muscle quality that could not be obtained naturally ie. hardness/vascularity. Would taking something like superdrol produce a similar effect? Also, although I am not certain of the reason, it seems most people using real gear develop huge shoulders and traps without much effort. Again, would this be something one could expect from using something like superdrol?

All are oral steroids. Since the m1t days, there really is no such thing as pro-steroids except that they are not scheduled drugs yet (but you'll still get the ban if you ask/post sources).

 

[lifted]

I was thinking the other day....

If you think about it, all the ban did was make the companies (well, DS and ALRI) work harder to give us better anabolic compounds. If the ban never happened, I don't think that we would have ever had SD/ E max ,etc...and these IMO are better than any PH/PS that was offered pre-ban....well, maybe besides 1-T.

So IMO, all the ban did was backfire just like was thought. And the thing is, it will always continue to do this since science will always be one step ahead.

 

[handzilla]

I agree with that reply , both are excellent oral steroids , I see now Phera-Plex is now being released on some sites... the writeups on that one look promising

I see Ava Devine in your 'tar there, pal! Very stroke-worthy. Haha!

 

[chronic666]

IMHO, the muscle quality is from extended durations of use, nothing more

Do you mean that repeated cycling of a steroid will give you the muscle quality? Or that longer cycles would give you the muscle quality? The reason I ask is because generally something like SD would be cycled for something like 4 weeks whereas something like test E would be cycled for around 8-10 weeks. Therefore, if the muscle quality was derived from longer cycles then other anabolics would be more efficient at producing those effects.

Also, on the topic of the shoulder and trap growth, I am assuming that since these compounds are also considered steroids they would produce the same effect. However, is it common for people to experience this on things like SD and LMG?

 

[lifted]

I've always felt that longer cycles made it easier for me to hold onto my gains. No idea wether it is fact or fiction, but with short 4 weekers with orals, I had a harder time keeping hte gains compared to longer cycles.

Increased trap development with AAS is due to there being more androgenic receptors located in that area. And IMO a longer more mild cycle is better than short bursts every so often with orals/PH's because the more consistent your gains are, the better they get, and mature. I'm not a big fan of getting cock strong only to deflate a month later. PCT will always help one keep gains, but if you're body can't support the new mass even with proper ttraining/diet, then you will eventually lose it. That's why you see so many guys NOT just doing a couple cycles and quitting aas use. You will eventually have to keep using in order to hold onto a certain weight. Of course the guys with the better genetics will have a higher threshold than than the average joe.

 

[ryansm]

Prosteroid is just a sales term, there is no such thing. SD, and the like are steroids, don't fool yourself. The reason SD is used for 4 weeks is that it's a 17aa oral, most other AAS 17aa orals are used in similar fashion i.e. d-bol, anadrol etc... Test E is an injectable, not an oral.

 

[almcdon]

Chronic I am an experienced AAS user, I've used them all.
And although SD and E...LMG do not compare to some of the more potent
and toxic steroids such as anadrol,in terms of thickness gained. They are every bit as effective
as the majority of the rest. (Deca,eq,D-bol,)
E...lmg gave me much more size than SD but SD had many other benefits that I really liked. The pumps were incredible and overall recomposition. Ihope this helps

 

[Brooklyn]

Do you mean that repeated cycling of a steroid will give you the muscle quality? Or that longer cycles would give you the muscle quality?

The muscle quality depends on a number of factors, including the substance in question, the dosage and duration of use, the frequency of heavy weight training, and proper diet and supplementation. The factor most responsible for "muscle quality" is the person doing the training. It stands to reason that longer cycles will result in more gains, if you follow the correct protocol.

generally something like SD would be cycled for something like 4 weeks whereas something like test E would be cycled for around 8-10 weeks

Well, of course. SD is a strong methyl, whereas substances like Test are typically injectable since their bioavailability through oral use is low. Since SD and Ergomax/Phera Plex are methylated, they are harder on your liver than injectables. However, they are legal. You would not generally use DBol, a methylated oral steroid, for 8-10 weeks. In an AAS cycle, DBol is typically used to help bulking at the beginning (Weeks 1-4) of a cycle, before the injectables have taken full effect. SD or Ergomax could conceivably be used in a similar manner but are, as with DBol, useful alone.

From what I have read, it seems that aside from size and strength, real gear will give you a certain muscle quality that could not be obtained naturally ie. hardness/vascularity. Would taking something like superdrol produce a similar effect?

SD is a methylated form of the steroid Masteron and is also chemically similar to Anadrol, so yes, it works much like "real gear" as it is "real gear". Ergomax/Pheraplex appear to be forms of the designer steroid DMT, also "real gear". Search ths board or BB.com and see the SD or Ergomax solo logs of 10-20 lbs of lean mass gains in 4 weeks of use. Of course adding in injectable Test or Tren (or both) will increase results. There just is less of a difference now between what is legally available (for the moment) and what is a DEA Schedule III substance.

Also, although I am not certain of the reason, it seems most people using real gear develop huge shoulders and traps without much effort. Again, would this be something one could expect from using something like superdrol?

I don't think it's a case of "easy" but gear is going to make someone with everything else in order able to achieve genetic potential much quicker. Some people need to work harder at it than others. SD does what it claims. So does Ergomax.

 

[chronic666]

I've got no problem with an injecting myself with something that isn't legal if it is worth it. I am just trying to figure out what the major benefits of using a test/dbol cycle over a SD or LMG cycle would be. It appears that many people tend to favor the standard cycles. However, being that some people report as much as 10lbs LBM gained and kept on a 4 week SD cycle I want to make sure that there would be a clear advantage to standard AAS cycles as opposed to these new orals.

 

[lifted]

The muscle quality depends on a number of factors, including the substance in question, the dosage and duration of use, the frequency of heavy weight training, and proper diet and supplementation. The factor most responsible for "muscle quality" is the person doing the training. It stands to reason that longer cycles will result in more gains, if you follow the correct protocol.

This pretty much sums it up right here. Good explanation.

 

[-2z-]

..I am just trying to figure out what the major benefits of using a test/dbol cycle over a SD or LMG cycle would be.

For me, at this point in time....the major benefit of SD is not being nervous after I receive the package.

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

you will gain more with injecting but I do better with short cycles because I dont get shut down as hard. pct is a b!tch for me. also gaining weight is a b!tch for me except when on.

 

[NO MERCY]

The muscle quality depends on a number of factors, including the substance in question, the dosage and duration of use, the frequency of heavy weight training, and proper diet and supplementation. The factor most responsible for "muscle quality" is the person doing the training. It stands to reason that longer cycles will result in more gains, if you follow the correct protocol.


Well, of course. SD is a strong methyl, whereas substances like Test are typically injectable since their bioavailability through oral use is low. Since SD and Ergomax/Phera Plex are methylated, they are harder on your liver than injectables. However, they are legal. You would not generally use DBol, a methylated oral steroid, for 8-10 weeks. In an AAS cycle, DBol is typically used to help bulking at the beginning (Weeks 1-4) of a cycle, before the injectables have taken full effect. SD or Ergomax could conceivably be used in a similar manner but are, as with DBol, useful alone.


SD is a methylated form of the steroid Masteron and is also chemically similar to Anadrol, so yes, it works much like "real gear" as it is "real gear". Ergomax/Pheraplex appear to be forms of the designer steroid DMT, also "real gear". Search ths board or BB.com and see the SD or Ergomax solo logs of 10-20 lbs of lean mass gains in 4 weeks of use. Of course adding in injectable Test or Tren (or both) will increase results. There just is less of a difference now between what is legally available (for the moment) and what is a DEA Schedule III substance.


I don't think it's a case of "easy" but gear is going to make someone with everything else in order able to achieve genetic potential much quicker. Some people need to work harder at it than others. SD does what it claims. So does Ergomax.

:goodpost:

 

[Spitdeath]

For me, at this point in time....the major benefit of SD is not being nervous after I receive the package.

HA! been there
http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27444

 

[Beelzebub]

I've got no problem with an injecting myself with something that isn't legal if it is worth it. I am just trying to figure out what the major benefits of using a test/dbol cycle over a SD or LMG cycle would be. It appears that many people tend to favor the standard cycles. However, being that some people report as much as 10lbs LBM gained and kept on a 4 week SD cycle I want to make sure that there would be a clear advantage to standard AAS cycles as opposed to these new orals.

used ergomax and SD at different times. both are good but they don't hold a candle to a test/tren combo.

 

[-2z-]

HA! been there
http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27444

Yikes...I remember reading that thread. Creepy!

 

[snakebyte05]

I've always felt that longer cycles made it easier for me to hold onto my gains. No idea wether it is fact or fiction, but with short 4 weekers with orals, I had a harder time keeping hte gains compared to longer cycles.

Increased trap development with AAS is due to there being more androgenic receptors located in that area. And IMO a longer more mild cycle is better than short bursts every so often with orals/PH's because the more consistent your gains are, the better they get, and mature. I'm not a big fan of getting cock strong only to deflate a month later. PCT will always help one keep gains, but if you're body can't support the new mass even with proper ttraining/diet, then you will eventually lose it. That's why you see so many guys NOT just doing a couple cycles and quitting aas use. You will eventually have to keep using in order to hold onto a certain weight. Of course the guys with the better genetics will have a higher threshold than than the average joe.

I'll have to disagree completely with this. I have switched to short transdermal cycles now, for most likely life, except for maybe one every few years.

You get great gains with transdermal, I am on my 5th week of a 6th week cycle and I am already up 12lbs, which was weighed in on thurs. I have been gaining 3-4lbs each week. They are easy to do. The powders are much cheaper than buying injectables. They are much better on your health, and if you do pct right, there should be do reason why you would lose gains. I know jminis has done some and kept all his gains. I am expecting to keep mine.

With them being so short, you save yourself a lot of pct trouble. Cortisol is just started to get increased around week 5/6, meaning it will not be incredibly hard to keep down, the body is just starting to up estrogen, along with a bunch of others. With 10+weeks your body is usually way past used to the aas, cortisol and estrogen are incredibly high bringing down gains bad making pct harder. You have a better chance to be suppresed more.

 

[Syr]

I'll have to disagree completely with this. I have switched to short transdermal cycles now, for most likely life, except for maybe one every few years.

You get great gains with transdermal, I am on my 5th week of a 6th week cycle and I am already up 12lbs, which was weighed in on thurs. I have been gaining 3-4lbs each week. They are easy to do. The powders are much cheaper than buying injectables. They are much better on your health, and if you do pct right, there should be do reason why you would lose gains. I know jminis has done some and kept all his gains. I am expecting to keep mine.

With them being so short, you save yourself a lot of pct trouble. Cortisol is just started to get increased around week 5/6, meaning it will not be incredibly hard to keep down, the body is just starting to up estrogen, along with a bunch of others. With 10+weeks your body is usually way past used to the aas, cortisol and estrogen are incredibly high bringing down gains bad making pct harder. You have a better chance to be suppresed more.

True. I also advocate short cycles of phased cycles. What are you taking transdermal? You mean AAS like test and tren, right?

 

[-2z-]

I'll have to disagree completely with this. I have switched to short transdermal cycles now, for most likely life, except for maybe one every few years.

You get great gains with transdermal, I am on my 5th week of a 6th week cycle and I am already up 12lbs, which was weighed in on thurs. I have been gaining 3-4lbs each week. They are easy to do. The powders are much cheaper than buying injectables. They are much better on your health, and if you do pct right, there should be do reason why you would lose gains. I know jminis has done some and kept all his gains. I am expecting to keep mine.

With them being so short, you save yourself a lot of pct trouble. Cortisol is just started to get increased around week 5/6, meaning it will not be incredibly hard to keep down, the body is just starting to up estrogen, along with a bunch of others. With 10+weeks your body is usually way past used to the aas, cortisol and estrogen are incredibly high bringing down gains bad making pct harder. You have a better chance to be suppresed more.

I agree...shorter (5-6wks) trans cycles seem to be quite productive for many.

 

[chronic666]

I agree...shorter (5-6wks) trans cycles seem to be quite productive for many.

Hmm this sounds interesting. The transdermal you guys are refferring to, would that be the old stuff they used to sell? Or some type of homebrew transdermal?

 

[snakebyte05]

SYR: Yes I mean illegal aas as in test base and bold base, which I am currently on right now.

Chronic666: These are homebrewed, not ones that had ph's in it before the ban. I bought my own powders of test base and boldenone base and mixed it in tgel (I would recommend phlojel now, since it is superior, but I did not know this at the time).


If you are in to ideas of short cycles check out building the perfect beast, they talk extensively about it. It is a great read.

 

[snakebyte05]

I am confused.

You are saying you can buy test base powder legally?

If so where?


Thanks



CROWLER

No, I said I use illegal aas, not legal aas. But you can get test powder legally. Just get a synovex-h kit and convert it to free form test.

 

[Syr]

SYR: Yes I mean illegal aas as in test base and bold base, which I am currently on right now.

Which carrier are you using right now? i've read of a couple logs using T-Gel or Penetrate.
I havent put my hands on phlojel yet, but i have enough DMSO

 

[Syr]

No, I said I use illegal aas, not legal aas. But you can get test powder legally. Just get a synovex-h kit and convert it to free form test.

He can also get fina pellets and convert to get a tren powder, IIRC is not base, that is he has to take into account the ester which is about 30% of the total.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

I imagine, and as glenihan told me, gains from injectable steroids are more maintainable. I've gotten more from 11weeks (right now) of pinning than 4on,4off,4on,4off,4on,12off with any 1-test trans.

 

[snakebyte05]

I imagine, and as glenihan told me, gains from injectable steroids are more maintainable. I've gotten more from 11weeks (right now) of pinning than 4on,4off,4on,4off,4on,12off with any 1-test trans.

Why not try doing it with test trans, not 1-test. It is the exact same as pinning you just adjust your dosage to fit the absorption rate. Think of it like this, when you do a 10 weeks cycle, it takes 4 maybe 5 weeks to fully have the test kicked in. You then have 5 maybe 6 weeks of actual full dosage test in your system. With dermal, by day 3 it has kicked in (at the latest). If you were going to do 12 week injectable, thats basically an 8 week dermal. You can't argue that it would be better health wise, plus you get the same time of a full dosage, with less supression, estrogen rising, and cortisol levels rising. The only difference is you pin twice a week or rub something on everyday. I consider that a minor inconvience for my health plus easier pct.

 

[snakebyte05]

Which carrier are you using right now? i've read of a couple logs using T-Gel or Penetrate.
I havent put my hands on phlojel yet, but i have enough DMSO

I am using tgel, no DMSO. heres my log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30514

It is not the most detailed, but mainly a week to week update on what I am noticing, plus weight gains.

Phlojel plus dmso should yield a higher absorption rate than tgel, plus you can get a much higher mg/ml concentration. Tgel gets 83.33 mg/ml at the highest concentration, where as phlojel gets 150mg/ml, even 200mg/ml for some powders. Plus for the cost of 450grams it is worth almost 7 tgels, going by using 10grams in the phlojel for each cycle.7 tgels is $140, or phlojel which is $65 for 7 tgels worth. (plus higher absorption)

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Why not try doing it with test trans, not 1-test. It is the exact same as pinning you just adjust your dosage to fit the absorption rate. Think of it like this, when you do a 10 weeks cycle, it takes 4 maybe 5 weeks to fully have the test kicked in. You then have 5 maybe 6 weeks of actual full dosage test in your system. With dermal, by day 3 it has kicked in (at the latest). If you were going to do 12 week injectable, thats basically an 8 week dermal. You can't argue that it would be better health wise, plus you get the same time of a full dosage, with less supression, estrogen rising, and cortisol levels rising. The only difference is you pin twice a week or rub something on everyday. I consider that a minor inconvience for my health plus easier pct.

Ahh......man..........dermals are more than a minor inconvenience...:lol:

 

[mass_builder]

SD ergomax and other legal steroids provide gains similar to regular AAS. but i prefer real AAS for one reason, its effect on the body is studied and documented, and you can predict what can it do to your body.

 

[snakebyte05]

Why can't you argue it is better health wise?


CROWLER

No, I mean that minor inconvience of putting lotion on is worth it for my health, since shorter cycles are healthier.

 

[snakebyte05]

Ahh......man..........dermals are more than a minor inconvenience...:lol:

Well I will admit putting tgel on is more than a minor inconvience, but phlojel would not be hard. Putting 3mls of test on a day actually requires some thinking of where you are going to put it, on the other hand, 1ml twice a day of phlojel is pretty easy. Just rub it on the forearms, or behind the knees. You do not need to hit more than one spot at a time.

 

[-2z-]

LOL sorry I missed the illegal part.

Thanks for the info on the syno my cows like that as well and the fina pellets. :cheers:


CROWLER

Yup....there's something attractive about cattle farming.

 

[CROWLER]

Yup....there's something attractive about cattle farming.

For a second there I thought you were going to say there is something attractive about cattle :drunk:


CROWLER

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Well I will admit putting tgel on is more than a minor inconvience, but phlojel would not be hard. Putting 3mls of test on a day actually requires some thinking of where you are going to put it, on the other hand, 1ml twice a day of phlojel is pretty easy. Just rub it on the forearms, or behind the knees. You do not need to hit more than one spot at a time.

Hmmmmmm.........sounds good I could deal with that!

 

[snakebyte05]

I posted this in the anadrol vs superdroll thread.

Anabolic supplements cost ALOT more than AS and do not work as well.

BUT they are legal that is the whole point.


Think about it what do the pros use Mega Max, Superdrol, Ultra Hot TTX or whatever these different supplements are called? Or do they use Test Ent, D-bol, Deca etc???

Of course they do not use the supplements because they just don't work as well as AS and they cost a hell of alot more, BUT they are legal and that is the point.

The supplements available now are simply amazing compared to what was available just a couple years ago. And you do NOT have to worry about a knock on your door after you receive your shippment from a supplement co like you do if you use illegal AS.

For what some guys spend on 12 weeks of these anabolic sups could pay for 2 years of AS powders but to many the extra price is WELL WORTH IT>


CROWLER

Most don't even buy powders since it costs an arm and a leg domestically, international is a whole different story. Waiting for my int'l pack freaked me out. But all went well and I was very pleased with the way business worked. If I did it again I would place a semi large order and never buy int'l again so as not need to worry. But im not sure if ill need to go int'l again for at least a year maybe 2.