First Cycle Plan - Opinions?

[blongo804]

Hey everyone,

Yes, I'm sorry, but it's another cycle opinion thread. Even though I've done a bunch of research, I'd like some opinions/thoughts in my own thread. With that said, I'm looking to start my first cycle next week. Below is what I came up with, including current stats. I have a few questions at the bottom as well.

Height: 6'1ish
Weight: 198, give or take
Body Fat % Guesstimate: 18-20% (top/middle abs visible when flexed)
Age: 25 going on 26
Cycle Goal: Kill fat, add lean mass!

Support Supps:
CEL Cycle Support pre cycle: 1/2 dose/day for a week to build up hawthorn berry. Seems not everyone does this, but I figured why not.
CEL Cycle Support on cycle: full dose daily
CEL Tudca: 500mg daily
Other daily's: CL OxiMega, 5g creatine mono, Evomuse Gut Health

Cycle:
Vicious Labs Cadaver Candy (DMZ): 30/45/45/45/45/45
- Note: I may do 30mg the second week pending how I feel after the first.
- Note 2: I may do two more weeks at 45mg pending how the first 6 weeks go.

Post Cycle:
Nolvadex: 20/20/10/10

AI will be on hand juuust in case. Pre cycle bloods will be done tomorrow. I had a panel done a little over 3 months ago and it looked fine. Ran BLR Vector for 3 months though, so just want to be sure it didn't screw with anything.

How's that plan? Open to all discussion!

Also, my questions are:

1) I've been testing different macros leading up to this, and I'm currently maintaining weight at roughly 220p/95f/265c. Should I continue eating at maintenance and let DMZ do its thing to ensure that hopefully all gains are lean? I have no problem adding carbs if need be. As mentioned above, my goal is to lean out while putting on some solid size. I know you have to eat if you want to grow, but I'd like to keep any fat gains minimal. I'm sure DMZ will help with that regardless, so I'm assuming another 50g or so of carbs wouldn't hurt to try.

2) How should I eat post cycle, if I do up my carbs on cycle? Maybe I'm overthinking the eating aspect.

Training plan will be a hypertrophy based 4 day split, including a random 5th day every so often if time/my body allows.

I'll post up a log if there's interest in one. I took "before" pics already on 7/1.

 

[Mzakif]

Interested

 

[mikeymike85]

I would personally up the carbs, DMZ eats them anyhow, its very forgiving with carbs as it turns into glycogen retention. DMZ is my favorite compound, it will be a fun ride. I ate maybe 1500 cals a day on DMZ and still gained 5-6 lbs while leaning out on my last run.

 

[H.Zoloman]

Any idea what your current bf% is now?

 

[blongo804]

I would personally up the carbs, DMZ eats them anyhow, its very forgiving with carbs as it turns into glycogen retention. DMZ is my favorite compound, it will be a fun ride. I ate maybe 1500 cals a day on DMZ and still gained 5-6 lbs while leaning out on my last run.

Wow that's legit for only 1500 calories/day. I guess I won't be too bashful about upping carbs a bit off the bat. Thanks for sharing your experience!

Any idea what your current bf% is now?

I meant to include that actually. I'll update the original post. I'm thinking I'm around 18-20% right now on a conservative guess. I have visible top two rows of abs when flexed or if I simply breathe in, decently vascular too, especially with a nice pump.

 

[mikeymike85]

Remember, you will look "flat" with 50mg carbs. Increasing them will make you look fuller and your muscles will pop. Take advantage of what DMZ does to carbs...dont be shy. You can eat carbs and still be lean. I do, but I cycle. 50-100mg 3 days, 4th day 200. 5th day i wake up and look leaner from the retention.

 

[Mzakif]

Remember, you will look "flat" with 50mg carbs. Increasing them will make you look fuller and your muscles will pop. Take advantage of what DMZ does to carbs...dont be shy. You can eat carbs and still be lean. I do, but I cycle. 50-100mg 3 days, 4th day 200. 5th day i wake up and look leaner from the retention.

Do you do carb cycling even when you are on cycle ?

 

[khall1974]

You are gonna need a test base to run with DMZ.

 

[mikeymike85]

Do you do carb cycling even when you are on cycle ?

Yes, I don't ever bulk. I recomp all year round. I bulked 10-13 years ago so I've always had a base. I'm only after lean muscle gains. If I gain 2 lbs while reducing 2-3% in body fat, that is a successful cycle.

 

[blongo804]

Remember, you will look "flat" with 50mg carbs. Increasing them will make you look fuller and your muscles will pop. Take advantage of what DMZ does to carbs...dont be shy. You can eat carbs and still be lean. I do, but I cycle. 50-100mg 3 days, 4th day 200. 5th day i wake up and look leaner from the retention.

I'm assuming you mean grams. I also meant I would probably increase 50g carbs on top of the 265g I'm maintaining with at the moment for a total of 315g carbs. I definitely appreciate your input though! I may consider carb cycling while on cycle. I don't do it normally, but have been considering it. Do you stay lower carb on all off days?

You are gonna need a test base to run with DMZ.

See I've seen mixed opinions on that. I know it's going to trash my test, but I'm going to give it a go without a test base for now. It seems people are able to fight DMZ lethargy without a base.

Anyone else want to chime in on whether or not they ran a test base?

 

[RickyBlobby]

Are you planning on doing blood work at any time during or after the cycle?

 

[RickyBlobby]

I'm assuming you mean grams. I also meant I would probably increase 50g carbs on top of the 265g I'm maintaining with at the moment for a total of 315g carbs. I definitely appreciate your input though! I may consider carb cycling while on cycle. I don't do it normally, but have been considering it. Do you stay lower carb on all off days? See I've seen mixed opinions on that. I know it's going to trash my test, but I'm going to give it a go without a test base for now. It seems people are able to fight DMZ lethargy without a base.

Anyone else want to chime in on whether or not they ran a test base?

My first cycle was only 4 weeks and was a mix of epistane and tren. I used no base and felt fine. But. I would assume around the 5 week mark the lack of a test base would start being an issue.. So you may feel symptoms of low test (low E specifically since this is an androgenic compound if I remember correctly) for probably 2-3 weeks at most.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Cycle layout looks great, but I don’t know if dmz would be the best for cutting

 

[blongo804]

Are you planning on doing blood work at any time during or after the cycle?

Post PCT blood work will be taken, yes.

My first cycle was only 4 weeks and was a mix of epistane and tren. I used no base and felt fine. But. I would assume around the 5 week mark the lack of a test base would start being an issue.. So you may feel symptoms of low test (low E specifically since this is an androgenic compound if I remember correctly) for probably 2-3 weeks at most.

Thank you for sharing your experience! I've seen a ton of your posts and appreciate everything you put out there. Great points. I guess I'll continue aiming for 6 weeks, and only push on if the lethargy doesn't get me too bad.

Cycle layout looks great, but I don’t know if dmz would be the best for cutting

Thank you for your thoughts! I've seen many user reports where they've had a recomp-like effect from DMZ while adding size. It seems like it's doable, but of course not easy because it never is.

 

[mikeymike85]

I'm assuming you mean grams. I also meant I would probably increase 50g carbs on top of the 265g I'm maintaining with at the moment for a total of 315g carbs. I definitely appreciate your input though! I may consider carb cycling while on cycle. I don't do it normally, but have been considering it. Do you stay lower carb on all off days? See I've seen mixed opinions on that. I know it's going to trash my test, but I'm going to give it a go without a test base for now. It seems people are able to fight DMZ lethargy without a base.

Anyone else want to chime in on whether or not they ran a test base?

I just do 3 or 4 low carb then one high carb day...i dont plan it around workouts since I'm usually in the gym 5 or 6 days. I agree it will be hard to "cut" on dmz because it just adds so much damn mass, but it could be done with the right diet and cardio, I'd imagine.

 

[Alpha1a]

Cycle layout looks good man for a simple DMz only cycle .
1) I am a big fan of slowly dropping carbs during a cut , my last cut I came down from 400 to 50 g a day by cutting 50g every 5-7 days and worked out very well , so if fat loss is the goal I'd say lower carbs and keep protein and fat right around were they're at now. Also add a refeed day when you're feeling too depleted, usually every 10 days for me and what works for me is something like 100g pro 350-400 carbs and 30-40 fats usually before a power leg day or chest day so I make sure to use that up and take advantage. Besides that just have a good training and cardio plan.
2) post cycle I personally try to keep everything exactly where it was at . I feel as if I try to raise cals i just add fat considering you're shut down.

 

[Matthersby]

You don’t NEED a test base, you just should have one. All will be right in the world when you do. Test propionate for 6-8 weeks would put you out $135 with needles and accessories.

2 reasons guys don’t pin:
- Irrational Fear of the unknown(injecting into a vein and dropping dead) and of needles...
- inability to source(private message anyone around or just google steroid sources)

No offense intended, but all other reasons not to run their cycle with test as a base(or other androgenic compound) most of us see right through the reasoning given and just don’t want to be pricks and point out that it’s 99% most likely one of the other reasons I listed.

 

[blongo804]

I just do 3 or 4 low carb then one high carb day...i dont plan it around workouts since I'm usually in the gym 5 or 6 days. I agree it will be hard to "cut" on dmz because it just adds so much damn mass, but it could be done with the right diet and cardio, I'd imagine.

Ahh that makes sense. I don't necessarily want to "cut", so to say, just hoping some fat goes away while muscle comes on. I can sacrifice some carbs from where I'm at right now, so I'll decide what I want to do for sure when the cycle starts. I'm also not sure on cardio yet, but either way it'll probably be about 10 minutes/day, 40 minutes/week to start. I'll see what that does for me.

Cycle layout looks good man for a simple DMz only cycle .
1) I am a big fan of slowly dropping carbs during a cut , my last cut I came down from 400 to 50 g a day by cutting 50g every 5-7 days and worked out very well , so if fat loss is the goal I'd say lower carbs and keep protein and fat right around were they're at now. Also add a refeed day when you're feeling too depleted, usually every 10 days for me and what works for me is something like 100g pro 350-400 carbs and 30-40 fats usually before a power leg day or chest day so I make sure to use that up and take advantage. Besides that just have a good training and cardio plan.
2) post cycle I personally try to keep everything exactly where it was at . I feel as if I try to raise cals i just add fat considering you're shut down.

Both points sound great. So you think with lower carbs, yet protein/fat where they're currently at, I will hopefully lose some fat while being able to put on some lean size?

You don’t NEED a test base, you just should have one. All will be right in the world when you do. Test propionate for 6-8 weeks would put you out $135 with needles and accessories.

2 reasons guys don’t pin:
- Irrational Fear of the unknown(injecting into a vein and dropping dead) and of needles...
- inability to source(private message anyone around or just google steroid sources)

No offense intended, but all other reasons not to run their cycle with test as a base(or other androgenic compound) most of us see right through the reasoning given and just don’t want to be pricks and point out that it’s 99% most likely one of the other reasons I listed.

No offense taken!

I'm going to have to fall into the category of "irrational fear of needles" for this one. I understand test prop is tried and true, and I also understand how beneficial it would be. I have no reason to believe I couldn't source it (already know a few places off the top of my head), I just don't think I'd be able to pin being that I can hardly let anyone else do it that knows what they're doing. It was hard enough getting a vile of blood drawn this morning! lol

 

[Whisky]

Ahh that makes sense. I don't necessarily want to "cut", so to say, just hoping some fat goes away while muscle comes on. I can sacrifice some carbs from where I'm at right now, so I'll decide what I want to do for sure when the cycle starts. I'm also not sure on cardio yet, but either way it'll probably be about 10 minutes/day, 40 minutes/week to start. I'll see what that does for me.


Both points sound great. So you think with lower carbs, yet protein/fat where they're currently at, I will hopefully lose some fat while being able to put on some lean size?



No offense taken!

I'm going to have to fall into the category of "irrational fear of needles" for this one. I understand test prop is tried and true, and I also understand how beneficial it would be. I have no reason to believe I couldn't source it (already know a few places off the top of my head), I just don't think I'd be able to pin being that I can hardly let anyone else do it that knows what they're doing. It was hard enough getting a vile of blood drawn this morning! lol

To be honest i was in the same boat umtil recently, couldnt watch an injection on tv ffs. But wanted to get on cjc dac and pin test later this year. Been jabbing the cjc 2xpw for the past 4 weeks - amazing what we can make ourselves do if we really want to lol

 

[blongo804]

To be honest i was in the same boat umtil recently, couldnt watch an injection on tv ffs. But wanted to get on cjc dac and pin test later this year. Been jabbing the cjc 2xpw for the past 4 weeks - amazing what we can make ourselves do if we really want to lol

Oh I totally understand I'd probably get used to it over time.. It's truly just something I don't want to get into. I understand I'm bringing up an extreme here, but I have a small family history of drug abuse, that included needles, and I can't help but to relate the two. It's just all in my head. I hope no one takes this the wrong way - it's just different when you were around it at a younger age.

With that said, who knows.. Maybe one day when I'm older, have kids already, couldn't be bothered about anything else, but not now. Also, it may seem hypocritical that I'm simultaneously talking about taking a "drug" myself, but this is far beyond what I consider "bad". I don't smoke, don't drink, never did any drugs of any sort.. Let me just have some DMZ lol.

New post below with pre-cycle blood results.

 

[blongo804]

Pre-cycle labs. Post PCT will come.

 

[blongo804]

First 15mg dose of DMZ down the hatch today! Aiming for 10-12 hour dosages due to its half-life.

Bumped up CEL Cycle Assist to full dose, added in CEL Tudca as well. Took 250mg Tudca, 4 Cycle Assist, 15mg DMZ in one go. I'll probably continue dosing this way for ease.

I'll start a separate log thread tomorrow most likely.

 

[Sam stack]

Y not run test?

 

[blongo804]

Y not run test?

I'm not entirely worried about the lethargy or test crash. I mentioned my other reasons earlier in the thread. We'll see how it goes I guess! I'm optimistic, although sometimes I'm too optimistic lol.

 

[Brienn8989]

I’m running dmz as well and am using 4andro/Epi Andro as a test base. The lethargy on most phs are exaggerated. I’ve ran actual test p/e but if you’re going to inject for a test base you mine as well run a full 10-12 week cycle. Seems pointless to inject just to offset lethargy. Good luck buddy!

 

[blongo804]

I’m running dmz as well and am using 4andro/Epi Andro as a test base. The lethargy on most phs are exaggerated. I’ve ran actual test p/e but if you’re going to inject for a test base you mine as well run a full 10-12 week cycle. Seems pointless to inject just to offset lethargy. Good luck buddy!

How are you liking the cycle so far, and how far along are you? Thanks for your thoughts! I do agree that if I wanted to pin, I'd be doing a much different cycle.

 

[Brienn8989]

How are you liking the cycle so far, and how far along are you? Thanks for your thoughts! I do agree that if I wanted to pin, I'd be doing a much different cycle.

Only a week in so not much to report. Getting fantastic pumps at the gym. Seem to have a bit of extra swagger but that’s most likely because I know I’m about to blow up in a few weeks. Haha Tomorrow I bump up to 48 mgs. Make sure you drink a **** ton of water.

 

[blongo804]

Only a week in so not much to report. Getting fantastic pumps at the gym. Seem to have a bit of extra swagger but that’s most likely because I know I’m about to blow up in a few weeks. Haha Tomorrow I bump up to 48 mgs. Make sure you drink a **** ton of water.

Gotcha. Fantastic pumps sure sounds good at least! Definitely keeping up on water intake. I usually aim for a gallon daily, but i'll be aiming for 1.5 gallons on cycle.

Today was my first day training after the 30mg DMZ dose yesterday and the only other thing I changed is adding a banana to my preworkout stack lol. I gotta say, it's either placebo, banana, or DMZ, but the pump was real today. Saw myself in the mirror before showering and I looked huge. Now let's get that look without a pump!!

I'll post up my own log shortly.

 

[Brienn8989]

Gotcha. Fantastic pumps sure sounds good at least! Definitely keeping up on water intake. I usually aim for a gallon daily, but i'll be aiming for 1.5 gallons on cycle.

Today was my first day training after the 30mg DMZ dose yesterday and the only other thing I changed is adding a banana to my preworkout stack lol. I gotta say, it's either placebo, banana, or DMZ, but the pump was real today. Saw myself in the mirror before showering and I looked huge. Now let's get that look without a pump!!

I'll post up my own log shortly.

Carbs are your friend on cycle.

 

[blongo804]

Carbs are your friend on cycle.

Annnnnd that's why I'm starting with 300g carbs!

 

[Brienn8989]

You are going to explode my friend. Enjoy the ride. You can never have a first cycle again.

 

[KingAnt]

How is your cycle going? Feeling any lethargy?

 

[blongo804]

How is your cycle going? Feeling any lethargy?

Should've linked my log here! Duh.

Here you go sir: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-logs/304805-first-cycle-dmz.html#post6058243

No lethargy to note. Typical post-lunch insulin spike crash, but no other lethargy to note.

 

[Country]

Lol fill me in im on the ifbb Circuit and ive asked a number of pros wtf is dmz?

 

[blongo804]

Lol fill me in im on the ifbb Circuit and ive asked a number of pros wtf is dmz?

DMZ stands for "dymethazine". Google that and you'll get a wealth of info.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

You are gonna need a test base to run with DMZ.

I ran DMZ several times without a test base, with great results... but yeah next go around I am gonna add in Test E for base, say 300mg weekly. DMZ does supress and can make one feel lethargic toward weeks 3-4'ish.

Edit sorry for late reply... Noted you have a log up and are going to go without base this time.

 

[Country]

DMZ stands for "dymethazine". Google that and you'll get a wealth of info.

.thanks brother

 

[Whisky]

DMZ stands for "dymethazine". Google that and you'll get a wealth of info.

I’ve not ran it so googled as I like reading up on aas/ph’s etc..... reading a review that suggests it’s stronger than anadrol, winny and test prop - I know people like it but I thought anadrol and winny were two of the more potent aas out there - is it legitimately going to add more size and/or strength than those?

 

[blongo804]

I ran DMZ several times without a test base, with great results... but yeah next go around I am gonna add in Test E for base, say 300mg weekly. DMZ does supress and can make one feel lethargic toward weeks 3-4'ish.

Edit sorry for late reply... Noted you have a log up and are going to go without base this time.

No problem at all. Glad to hear your thoughts and have you following along now too!

.thanks brother

You're welcome! It certainly helps you do research once you know more than 3 letters! Feel free to follow my log for some real world results as well.

 

[blongo804]

I’ve not ran it so googled as I like reading up on aas/ph’s etc..... reading a review that suggests it’s stronger than anadrol, winny and test prop - I know people like it but I thought anadrol and winny were two of the more potent aas out there - is it legitimately going to add more size and/or strength than those?

Great question that I wish I can answer with personal experience. Maybe someone else will chime in. It does seem DMZ is well-known for its potency/strength.

 

[Country]

Thanks again reading it now.

 

[Country]

Ive just always grown more on 2g of test then a bunch of different compounds. I tried afyer reading doggcrapps cycles for pennies

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Great question that I wish I can answer with personal experience. Maybe someone else will chime in. It does seem DMZ is well-known for its potency/strength.

DMZ = Two Super-drol molecules bound by an azine ring. It's active on it's own and can break down into Super-drol. Just a paraphrase, there's tons of O-chem postings on this if you search enough. Very strong, strong as if not more than traditional steroids.

 

[Brienn8989]

Great question that I wish I can answer with personal experience. Maybe someone else will chime in. It does seem DMZ is well-known for its potency/strength.

Comparing apples to oranges. Stronger is a very subjective term. If I had to compare it’s weaker than anadrol/stronger than winny and can’t compare it to test.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Indeed, I was not being precise, stronger for me in a relative sense. In that my tall, ectomorph frame adds lean to slightly wet muscle tissue faster on DMZ and S-drol than even when I was doing a high dose Test E cycle, such as 600mg weekly, that pushed my Total Test through the roof > 3000 when I did blood work on cycle.

I have to use lower doses of most anabolics anyway, DMZ is effective for me even at 10-20mg daily, even without a test base if one can drink enough caffeine to deal with eventual lethargy when natural Test becomes supressed. Some people with higher tolerance,or have just been through too many anabolics, need more like 30-40mg DMZ. But then even at 38 y/o, my natural test after cycles is still 800-900 ng/dL. Still a good range for my age, so for others who suffer from low T, maybe the Test E/C is all they need and if they are mesomorph in nature as well...

 

[Sam stack]

I’ve ran it twice. Didn’t think it was that strong

 

[Sam stack]

Was definitely a good compound though