1/4 andro and epi log

[Mzakif]

Hey All,

Started my 1 cycle 1 week ago

General details :
- Age 41 years old
- 4 years lifting continuously and Martial arts
- Body fat should be in range do 9 to 11 % I’ll update that ASAP

Cycle details:
1st month

- 1 andro 345mg up to 460
- 4 andro 330mg up to 440
- Epi 1000mg up to 1250

2nd month

- 1 andro 455mg
- 4 andro 360 mg to 475
- Epi. 1250 to 1500

Cycle support:

- Arimidix will be available in hand as pharma grade AI
- arimcare pro

In addition to :

-Omega 3 3000mg a day
-joint soother to fight any joint dryness

For pct :
- Sup3r pct plus
- Clomid and i might add Nolvdex (didn’t take final decision )

Training:

Sat Arms
Sun legs
Mon chest
Tue. Back
Wed. Arms
Thur. Shoulders

Low intensity cardio 3 to 5 times a week to minimize andros impact on lipids and keep body fat % at minimum

Calorie intake so far is 2000 Calories

In addition to arms and shoulder feeder workout on 5 days a week ( i exclude pre muscle training day and twining day itself)

I’ll update log on weekly basis as I don’t feel like much can be added on closer frequency

Plz let me know if I miss any details while updating log.

 

[Mzakif]

Saved for before and after pics

 

[Mzakif]

1st week

Well started at lower end dose of each compound and using my cycle support as described.

Nothing to mention so far every thing seems normal no changes at all

The only thing is when I didn’t dose epi with 1 and 4 first does in the morning to keep Epi for PWO extreme lethargy and kind of burning feeling all over my rib cage

All went away when I took Epi

 

[JoePaul39]

Hey All,

Started my 1 cycle 1 week ago

General details :
- Age 41 years old
- 4 years lifting continuously and Martial arts
- Body fat should be in range do 9 to 11 % I’ll update that ASAP

Cycle details:
1st month

- 1 andro 345mg up to 460
- 4 andro 330mg up to 440
- Epi 1000mg up to 1250

2nd month

- 1 andro 455mg
- 4 andro 360 mg to 475
- Epi. 1250 to 1500

Cycle support:

- Arimidix will be available in hand as pharma grade AI
- arimcare pro

In addition to :

-Omega 3 3000mg a day
-joint soother to fight any joint dryness

For pct :
- Sup3r pct plus
- Clomid and i might add Nolvdex (didn’t take final decision )

Training:

Sat Arms
Sun legs
Mon chest
Tue. Back
Wed. Arms
Thur. Shoulders

Low intensity cardio 3 to 5 times a week to minimize andros impact on lipids and keep body fat % at minimum

Calorie intake so far is 2000 Calories

In addition to arms and shoulder feeder workout on 5 days a week ( i exclude pre muscle training day and twining day itself)

I’ll update log on weekly basis as I don’t feel like much can be added on closer frequency

Plz let me know if I miss any details while updating log.

Subbed. Looks like a solid cycle plan with prohormone dosages on point. Only 2000 calories a day, assume this is a cut then? What is your height and weight?

 

[Mzakif]

Actually I didn’t take final decision regarding Calorie intake

I was on 1800 Calories the past month with 16 hours internment fasting and low carb intake to drop my fat percentage as much as possible before starting my cycle.

This worked for me and I managed to drop allot of fat and lost minimum muscle about 0.66lbs muscle according to pre cycle inbody results

So what I did is just add 200 Calories and stopped fasting

However I’m not sure this is the best I could do . I’m just testing how things will go

To answer your question No it not a cut cycle I’m looking for as much as possible lean gains .

Hoping to get out with much muscle Ana 1 digit body fat

My carbs at about 100 to 150 grams and the rest of calorie are protein and fat

I’m 5.64ft , 158lbs with fat percentage in range of 9 to 11%

 

[JoePaul39]

Actually I didn’t take final decision regarding Calorie intake

I was on 1800 Calories the past month with 16 hours internment fasting and low carb intake to drop my fat percentage as much as possible before starting my cycle.

This worked for me and I managed to drop allot of fat and lost minimum muscle about 0.66lbs muscle according to pre cycle inbody results

So what I did is just add 200 Calories and stopped fasting

However I’m not sure this is the best I could do . I’m just testing how things will go

To answer your question No it not a cut cycle I’m looking for as much as possible lean gains .

Hoping to get out with much muscle Ana 1 digit body fat

My carbs at about 100 to 150 grams and the rest of calorie are protein and fat

I’m 5.64ft , 158lbs with fat percentage in range of 9 to 11%

Since you aren’t looking to cut I would consider eating more than 2000 calories on your cycle.

 

[Mzakif]

Since you aren’t looking to cut I would consider eating more than 2000 calories on your cycle.

Will do after checking this week progress
Any lean gains suggestions for Calories intake according to my stats ?

 

[JoePaul39]

Will do after checking this week progress
Any lean gains suggestions for Calories intake according to my stats ?

100 grams carbs a dayis low for someone looking to add muscle that is not looking to lose weight. Might want to bump that up.

 

[LeanEngineer]

In to see your results!

 

[Mzakif]

Week 2 passed and I think there was slight strength gain and maybe more vascular and increased muscle fullness as some people on the gym has some comments.

Now I’m at the end of week Three but I can’t judge anything as I’m on a vacation and hotel gym lacks weights ana machine , therefore I did my best to each muscle with higher reps range and increased volume.

Food is not on point and I think I lost some of muscle fullness I had las week and vascularity .

Andros dose are still at lower end as planned .

I’m kinda disappointed and I hope that week won’t kill planned gains.

I’ll increase my calories to 2500 next week. And I wish to get lean mass as mush as possible.

I’m open to any advise and questions.

 

[Mzakif]

Alright as far I didn’t run all compounds at lower doses

I’ll continue the remaking 10 days of 1st month on:
330mg 4andro
345mg 1andro
1000mg Epi

2nd month doses will be higher:

570mg 1andro
585mg. 4 andro
1750mg Epi

Reason go doing this I that I want to use all what I have and I’m thinks that as they would start to kick in in 3rd or 4th week it’s time to push further.

So far no sides at all



Any inputs on this

 

[JoePaul39]

Alright as far I didn’t run all compounds at lower doses

I’ll continue the remaking 10 days of 1st month on:
330mg 4andro
345mg 1andro
1000mg Epi

2nd month doses will be higher:

570mg 1andro
585mg. 4 andro
1750mg Epi

Reason go doing this I that I want to use all what I have and I’m thinks that as they would start to kick in in 3rd or 4th week it’s time to push further.

So far no sides at all



Any inputs on this

I think your first months dosages of the andros is on target, but the 2nd month all three andros are way overdosed. No need to go over 1000 mg on Epi Andro. Also, would keep 1 and 4 andro at 330 mg each or at most boost it up to 440 mg each. Anything over you run the risk of increasing the likelihood of potential sides and also over draining the same receptors which won’t result in any additional gains. With that being said, while I don’t recommend running those high dosages in your 2nd month, can’t say I wouldn’t be interested in the potential outcome to see if it produces increased gains! Good luck!

 

[Mzakif]

I think your first months dosages of the andros is on target, but the 2nd month all three andros are way overdosed. No need to go over 1000 mg on Epi Andro. Also, would keep 1 and 4 andro at 330 mg each or at most boost it up to 440 mg each. Anything over you run the risk of increasing the likelihood of potential sides and also over draining the same receptors which won’t result in any additional gains. With that being said, while I don’t recommend running those high dosages in your 2nd month, can’t say I wouldn’t be interested in the potential outcome to see if it produces increased gains! Good luck!

Well actually I don’t have the experience to decide that’s why I made this update and honestly I was afraid to sides too.

But which sides exactly you are referring to gyno, bp, lethargy, etc


In same time I think someone else mentioned running of 1 and 4 andro in range of 500 and epi at 1200

If I didn’t increase them to the max I can, the only option i have is to run them on the following doses as I’m using different products:

455mg. 1 andro
475mg. 4andro
750mg epi

 

[JoePaul39]

Well actually I don’t have the experience to decide that’s why I made this update and honestly I was afraid to sides too.

But which sides exactly you are referring to gyno, bp, lethargy, etc


In same time I think someone else mentioned running of 1 and 4 andro in range of 500 and epi at 1200

If I didn’t increase them to the max I can, the only option i have is to run them on the following doses as I’m using different products:

455mg. 1 andro
475mg. 4andro
750mg epi

Potential sides would include lipids getting more out of whack (though they will bounce back after the cycle), back bumps, fatigue. Also would keep an eye on blood pressure
. I suggest reading this article https://blog.priceplow.com/prohormones/1-andro

 

[Mzakif]

Potential sides would include lipids getting more out of whack (though they will bounce back after the cycle), back bumps, fatigue. Also would keep an eye on blood pressure
. I suggest reading this article https://blog.priceplow.com/prohormones/1-andro

Will do as it’s seems to have more info that what I found on other sources

And will also see what others would say.

Thanks allot

 

[Whisky]

100 grams carbs a dayis low for someone looking to add muscle that is not looking to lose weight. Might want to bump that up.

Yep totally agree with this. Was reading down thinking that even if you were cutting 2,000 Cals was low with your cardio volume.

Biggest mistake I made on my first cycle was not pushing the Cals higher earlier. The partitioning effect is immense and you’ll be extremely unlikely to gain fat with your training regime if the food you eat is decent....

 

[Mzakif]

Yep totally agree with this. Was reading down thinking that even if you were cutting 2,000 Cals was low with your cardio volume.

Biggest mistake I made on my first cycle was not pushing the Cals higher earlier. The partitioning effect is immense and you’ll be extremely unlikely to gain fat with your training regime if the food you eat is decent....

Willl increase it to 2500 calorie this week
50% protein, 30% carbs and 20% fat.

Shall I keep Calories same on rest days ?


What do u Think about increasing andros doses as per my recent update in 2nd month

 

[Whisky]

Willl increase it to 2500 calorie this week
50% protein, 30% carbs and 20% fat.

Shall I keep Calories same on rest days ?


What do u Think about increasing andros doses as per my recent update in 2nd month

Macro split is what I would do (but many would recommend higher carb than that).

Yep same on rest days imo. That’s when you are growing and building muscle. Gotta fuel that recovery process.

Like joe Paul said I wouldn’t suggest going above 440 (to be fair I went up to 500 but wouldn’t do the same again). I’d personally just extend the cycle a week.

And epiandro no need to go above 1,250 or whatever dose below that you feel it at. Some people find 800 is enough, others 1,000 and some 1,250. More than that is probably a waste though....

 

[Mzakif]

Macro split is what I would do (but many would recommend higher carb than that).

Yep same on rest days imo. That’s when you are growing and building muscle. Gotta fuel that recovery process.

Like joe Paul said I wouldn’t suggest going above 440 (to be fair I went up to 500 but wouldn’t do the same again). I’d personally just extend the cycle a week.

And epiandro no need to go above 1,250 or whatever dose below that you feel it at. Some people find 800 is enough, others 1,000 and some 1,250. More than that is probably a waste though....

Yeah I’m always afraid of carbs as I feel like when ever I increased them they give me more fat although I pay attention to carb source and eat clean

Regarding Epi I though that it need to be that high as far as 1/4 andros dose for higher

Also though the I will give me more and more libido

 

[Whisky]

Yeah I’m always afraid of carbs as I feel like when ever I increased them they give me more fat although I pay attention to carb source and eat clean

Regarding Epi I though that it need to be that high as far as 1/4 andros dose for higher

Also though the I will give me more and more libido

You don’t have to fear carbs on cycle bro

 

[Mzakif]

Week 4.

Increased Calories to 2500
Macros were 50 protein, 30 carbs and 20 fats

I feel a bit more of strength gains
I cannot recognize much of size gains
I can see the that i gained a bit more fat as I’m not veiny as used to be.

According to indody today I gained 0.8 kg muscle and 0.5kg fat all of them in trunk

However I think I’ll have to do it again tomorrow as I didn’t go to bathroom since yesterday and I have eaten shot loads of junk on my chest meal.

Training program still going good Ana as scheduled but I Was too busy and I didn’t do any cardio this week


Also noticed that sometime I carve something sweet and sometimes that my appetite increase and I can eat all of my Calories after training

No sides so far

I’m bit disappointed as I though I would gain more without fat.
But maybe I have high expectations as i think many people said andros will kick in in 3rd or 4th week.

I think I’ll keep Calories the same and do cardio and I will cycle carbs and make them Lower in arms and shoulder days

 

[Mzakif]

Week 5

Dose increased to about 570 1/4 andro ana 1500 epi

Added baby aspirin

Calories was 2500

I was cycling carbs 270gram/170/270/150/50/0
Then last day of the week was too high as I had my cheat meal and desert

According to inbody lost some weight 0.4 kg muscle and 0.3 fat although I was on 2500 Calories
And I did 30 min low intensity cardio 3 times only.

Now only 22 days remaining and I didn’t gain more than max muscle mass I had before my pre cycle cut .

No side at all.
Still feel stronger didn’t increase weight on all lifts but the hard one are more controllable and done in a better form .
Not vascular as before.

I’m extremely disappointed

I’ll increase Calories to 3000 Calories
40 carb 40 protein and 20 fat
This time I’m thinking of keeping carbs constant and stop cycling .
Whisky elo76 Chasingtails Smont LeanEngineer Toren AnabolicGuru 21marine JoePaul39 BloodManor booneman77

Had to stop creatine monohydrate as I ran out of it.

Could it be part of the reason I’m seeing less muscle mass on inbody


Any thoughts ?
Any idea what’s wrong ???
What I should do

 

[Mzakif]

Noticed that strength is increased yesterday and today on legs day and chest

Nothing else to report

 

[booneman77]

none of these compounds will really even kick in hard until week 4+... and considering how low you started, it may take 5-6 to really see much. That said, the gains on these also will likely not be too dramatic with lower calorie intake so you have to curtail your expectations based on all of those factors.

 

[Whisky]

Yep agree with booneman77 it’s probably only around now you’ll start to get the full benefit.

Everyone is different re calorie needs but doing liss cardio 4/5 times a week at 6.2 and 200lbs I was eating 4,000 Cals a day to gain (stayed the same for first few weeks until I got to that level.

Personally I noticed the leanness most in pct from the 1/4/epi run so don’t worry too much on cycle, if you know your eating clean and training hard you won’t be gaining fat at your calorie numbers bro.

Gotta keep pushing man.

 

[elo76]

Can you list the manufacturer of each compound you have?

 

[Mzakif]

Can you list the manufacturer of each compound you have?

1st month used the following:

Olympus labs EPI
Sparta nutrition the one
Olympus Labs Sup3r 4

2nd month :

Olympus labs epi
Olympus Labs Sup3r 4
Spartan hard from sparta nutrition
Cerberus from Sparta nutrition

Product bought from blackdiamond Supplements and from predato r nutrition UK

 

[Mzakif]

Yep agree with booneman77 it’s probably only around now you’ll start to get the full benefit.

Everyone is different re calorie needs but doing liss cardio 4/5 times a week at 6.2 and 200lbs I was eating 4,000 Cals a day to gain (stayed the same for first few weeks until I got to that level.

Personally I noticed the leanness most in pct from the 1/4/epi run so don’t worry too much on cycle, if you know your eating clean and training hard you won’t be gaining fat at your calorie numbers bro.

Gotta keep pushing man.

How much Calories do U think I would need ?
Pushed it to 3000 already

 

[Mzakif]

none of these compounds will really even kick in hard until week 4+... and considering how low you started, it may take 5-6 to really see much. That said, the gains on these also will likely not be too dramatic with lower calorie intake so you have to curtail your expectations based on all of those factors.

How much Calories u think I should consume

 

[Whisky]

How much Calories do U think I would need ?
Pushed it to 3000 already

Personally I’d be increasing about 250 a day each week until I started seeing the scale go up

 

[elo76]

This ^. Keep adding. Andros didn't kick in until after 5 weeks for me. You should be gaining weight without them though if eating correctly.

 

[Mzakif]

Personally I’d be increasing about 250 a day each week until I started seeing the scale go up

Sorry didn’t get it bro 250 Calories daily till scale goes up.
Or what ?

 

[Mzakif]

This ^. Keep adding. Andros didn't kick in until after 5 weeks for me. You should be gaining weight without them though if eating correctly.

Yeah eating clean but I eat 1 cheat meal a week.
Well I still have 3 more weeks to go so I’ll hope that all the gains coming on the way

What made you feel they kicked in exactly ?

Today was back day and most of the weigh s went up ana the rest were much more controlled .

Regarding endurance felt like I can keep going and going.

Regarding Calories didn’t get what whisky meant

Does it mean increase 250 Calories daily till I see scale go up or what ?

 

[elo76]

Yeah eating clean but I eat 1 cheat meal a week.
Well I still have 3 more weeks to go so I’ll hope that all the gains coming on the way

What made you feel they kicked in exactly ?

Today was back day and most of the weigh s went up ana the rest were much more controlled .

Regarding endurance felt like I can keep going and going.

Regarding Calories didn’t get what whisky meant

Does it mean increase 250 Calories daily till I see scale go up or what ?

I, personally get a "ON" feeling, very alpha, weight on the bar and scale rise quickly. There should also be some body comp changes. Andros are weird though. At least for me they were. Felt like total crap, and it seemed like I made most my gains in PCT.

Whisky means to up your calories by 250/day. Week 1, add 250, check weight. Week 2 add 250 more, check weight.....etc.

If it was me, I would add 500-1000. An extra 500 cals per day above maintenance is only around 0.5 LBS per week. You should be gaining if you are in surplus.

 

[Mzakif]

I, personally get a "ON" feeling, very alpha, weight on the bar and scale rise quickly. There should also be some body comp changes. Andros are weird though. At least for me they were. Felt like total crap, and it seemed like I made most my gains in PCT.

Whisky means to up your calories by 250/day. Week 1, add 250, check weight. Week 2 add 250 more, check weight.....etc.

If it was me, I would add 500-1000. An extra 500 cals per day above maintenance is only around 0.5 LBS per week. You should be gaining if you are in surplus.

Thanks man

Yes they are weird I don’t feel crap at all but seems like I’m on same path And my gains may come in PCT.

Can you recall how much u gained on cycle and how much came in you PCT?

Currently I’m 159 lbs on 3000 Calories since 3 days ago and my scale is same

What do you think if i increase my calories to 3500 Calories and check my weight by the week end .

And I’ll keep it he macros split 40% carb 40% protein and 20% fats

 

[booneman77]

Thanks man

Yes they are weird I don’t feel crap at all but seems like I’m on same path And my gains may come in PCT.

Can you recall how much u gained on cycle and how much came in you PCT?

Currently I’m 159 lbs on 3000 Calories since 3 days ago and my scale is same

What do you think if i increase my calories to 3500 Calories and check my weight by the week end .

And I’ll keep it he macros split 40% carb 40% protein and 20% fats

You won’t gain in pct... up your cals by 250 and see at the end of 7 days if weight went up, if not, add another 250. If it did, stay there for another week and reevaluate. Continue until you gain too much in two consecutive weeks.

 

[JoePaul39]

Thanks man

Yes they are weird I don’t feel crap at all but seems like I’m on same path And my gains may come in PCT.

Can you recall how much u gained on cycle and how much came in you PCT?

Currently I’m 159 lbs on 3000 Calories since 3 days ago and my scale is same

What do you think if i increase my calories to 3500 Calories and check my weight by the week end .

And I’ll keep it he macros split 40% carb 40% protein and 20% fats

You definitely must be classified what they call a “hard gainer” if you are eating 3000 calories are 159 pounds and not gaining weight. I am 185 pounds and would gain a little on 3000 calories. Do you have a manual labor job in which you burn off a lot of calories?

 

[Mzakif]

You defiantly must be classified what they call a “hard gainer” if you are eating 3000 calories are 159 pounds and not gaining weight. I am 185 pounds and would gain a little on 3000 calories. Do you have a manual labor job in which you burn off a lot of calories?

No at all normal desk job and you may add to this that sometimes I work from home.

I was consuming 2500 Calories last week and this week Increased it 3000 Calories and scale was the same every morning.
Therefore increased it to 3500 Calories yesterday to check and see as I have 3 weeks only remaining on this cycle

 

[JoePaul39]

No at all normal desk job and you may add to this that sometimes I work from home.

I was consuming 2500 Calories last week and this week Increased it 3000 Calories and scale was the same every morning.
Therefore increased it to 3500 Calories yesterday to check and see as I have 3 weeks only remaining on this cycle

I don’t think increasing your calories by an additional 500 a day if you were seeing no gains at 3000 is a bad idea at all. There are 7 days in a week and 500 calories times 7 days is a weekly surplus of only 3500 calories. There are 3500 calories in a pound so at most I would expect you would gain a pound in a week.

 

[Mzakif]

I don’t think increasing your calories by an additional 500 a day if you were seeing no gains at 3000 is a bad idea at all. There are 7 days in a week and 500 calories times 7 days is a weekly surplus of only 3500 calories. There are 3500 calories in a pound so at most I would expect you would gain a pound in a week.

I did so already

And hoping that the best is to come in remaining 3 weeks

 

[mikeymike85]

Post pix..I'm the exact same height and weight as you. 9% BF, add 5% to it on this forum.

 

[Mzakif]

Post pix..I'm the exact same height and weight as you. 9% BF, add 5% to it on this forum.

Before or now ?

 

[Mzakif]

After increasing Calories to 3500, macros split 40 p/40c/20f also started to use creatine monohydrate again
Finally scale moved about 1.1 kg

Doses are still same

Thanks Whisky elo76 JoePaul39 booneman77

I look a bit fuller
Did inbody yesterday and I’m up about .9 kg lean mass and about .1 kg fat

Never had the chance to understand this machine it’s results always different that my expectations

Don’t know how come ? Any idea ?

Anyway now I’m tempted to move up to 4000 Calories as I have 2 weeks only remaining

Strength gains still coming and nice pumps throughout workout.

Still no sides.

Finally how much I should expect from this cycle according to my readings 10 to 15 lbs but with current progress I’m not close at all to 10 lbs .

Just passed my maximum this week by 300 grams for lean

 

[JoePaul39]

After increasing Calories to 3500, macros split 40 p/40c/20f also started to use creatine monohydrate again
Finally scale moved about 1.1 kg

Doses are still same

Thanks Whisky elo76 JoePaul39 booneman77

I look a bit fuller
Did inbody yesterday and I’m up about .9 kg lean mass and about .1 kg fat

Never had the chance to understand this machine it’s results always different that my expectations

Don’t know how come ? Any idea ?

Anyway now I’m tempted to move up to 4000 Calories as I have 2 weeks only remaining

Strength gains still coming and nice pumps throughout workout.

Still no sides.

Finally how much I should expect from this cycle according to my readings 10 to 15 lbs but with current progress I’m not close at all to 10 lbs .

Just passed my maximum this week by 300 grams for lean

Congratulations on the gains! What are you using to measure body fat?

 

[Mzakif]

Congratulations on the gains! What are you using to measure body fat?

Thanks
impedance analysis using inbody device @ gym

And fat caliper fat caliper too but caliper tells me fat percentage only and I have to calculate it