Theoretically...

[0-hero]

How big should one be after 1 years heavy juicing, if hes almost positive he has a diet and routine that is optimal for him. I know this is very ambigious question with many variables but id really appreciate your opinions.

The reason i ask is that my diet is pretty much nailed, training is basic but optimal and i am the most dedicated gym goer i know. I also rest well.

Ive juiced quite a bit over the last year, 3 cycles all in all with proper PCT but have gained very little in terms of lean mass. You would never think i was on the sauce to look at me.

As you can imagine this is very disheartening to me, is there any explaination for this? I wasent expecting to be a mass monsters but some guys at my gym hardly train and are much bigger than me.

Have been lurking for a while now but thought id join up and express my concerns as i feel you guys really know your ****.

 

[MrUniverse09]

Well obviously your diet and routine are not optimal. Most likely, you're not eating enough.

 

[0-hero]

Without going into too much depth 4000cals per day, all clean with a PCF of roughly 350g protein / 300gcarbs / 100g fats coming from nuts, flax and udo's Training is a 4 day split being based around the big compounds in the 6-10 rep range depending on how good i can keep my form, focused on shifting heavy weights.

The gear is also 100% legit i should mention.

 

[BOHICA]

Not near enough carbs if you are wanting to put on mass. Also too much juice in a year isn't gonna give your receptors time enough to actually use it. Lets see a legit cycle would be around 15 weeks x 3 thats 45 weeks only giving you 7 weeks of PCT and rest? That is no way near enough time for the body to adjust to anything.

 

[Magickk]

Not near enough carbs if you are wanting to put on mass. Also too much juice in a year isn't gonna give your receptors time enough to actually use it. Lets see a legit cycle would be around 15 weeks x 3 thats 45 weeks only giving you 7 weeks of PCT and rest? That is no way near enough time for the body to adjust to anything.

Right on the money bro... Great point

 

[0-hero]

Cycles have all been 8 weeks with short acting esters so PCT has followed almost immediately.

Maybe thats the problemo, not enough time on gear?

I dont respond well to carbs, anything over 400g and i pile on the lard like theres no tomorrow.

Bah sorry for the stupid question guys, its just been a year of trial and error and error and error, you catch my drift. Thanks for your input.

 

[BOHICA]

What have your cycles consisted of, and you have to have at least 350 grams carbs to get those muscles moving. Just gotta find your point in which your gaining but not putting on fat. No stupid questions, especially if you listen to what the knowledgable people on this board tell you. Which you seem to be doing.

 

[Magickk]

How much weight have you gained? How much has your strength gone up?

 

[0-hero]

Gained aroud 14lbs over the year which has been 5lbs lean (watertank BF testing) bodyfat actually went up even though i didnt have a cheat meal in 6 months at one point just totally clean sources.

Strength isnt up much, +20kg deads, +25kg squat, +12.5kgbench

I must admit i was expecting more from a years training. That said i know i have god awful genetics.

Cycles were all prop 1ml EOD with tren to finish the last 4 weeks. PCT consisted of HCG and clomid.

Im glad i am here now though, my next cycle will be going up for critique so will the diet and training that accompanies it.

 

[same_old]

Gained aroud 14lbs over the year which has been 5lbs lean (watertank BF testing) bodyfat actually went up even though i didnt have a cheat meal in 6 months at one point just totally clean sources.

Strength isnt up much, +20kg deads, +25kg squat, +12.5kgbench

I must admit i was expecting more from a years training. That said i know i have god awful genetics.

Cycles were all prop 1ml EOD with tren to finish the last 4 weeks. PCT consisted of HCG and clomid.

Im glad i am here now though, my next cycle will be going up for critique so will the diet and training that accompanies it.

start employing the "time on=time off" policy for cycles. nothing wrong with short esters for 8 weeks at a time, btw. you werent using HCG during your PCT were you? i also agree that 300g carbs isnt enough to make big gains. if you're packing on fat, have you looked critically at your carb choices?

 

[knox]

i'm just guessing your prop is 100mg/ml? that isn't much test, and 4 weeks of tren isn't enough time on imo. I wouldn't run HCG during post cycle either, it's suppressive. i'd suggest run a longer cycle once you are recovered. try a 12 to 18 wk cycle of test enan or cyp. i'd run the tren either the 1st half or the second half if you choose to use an oral to kickstart. Run the HCG from wk 1 to the end or even a week longer. Just curious what are your stats; weight, height etc.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

have you addressed the issue of overtraining?

Post your routine! If you're a hardgainer, you have to train like one to gain.

 

[0-hero]

Wow thanks guys, big volume of responses, to address some of the q's.

Im 6ft 2, 215lbs. 15% bodyfat. I once weighed 340lbs with very little muscle and a 56" waistline.

HCG i would run pre-pct to return nads back to normal size to stop the missus guessing.

Carb choices are primarily - wholemeal / granary bread/rolls, wholemeal pasta, brown rice, basmati rice, veggies and low GI fruits.

I gain fat very very easily but find it very hard to lose it. Someone at another board suggested i have a throid problem?

Longer esters it is then.

 

[BOHICA]

you may have a thyroid problem, my girlfriend has hypothyroidism, which means it doesn't produce enough thyroid therefore causing her to gain weight easily. She doesn't cuz we have her diet worked out, but it is definitley something to get checked out. She has to take pig thyroid every morning to balance hers out.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

What about "Weight Training" routine, bro...you can definitely overtrain on AAS and people do it all the time.

 

[0-hero]

I basically have a dual routine, which is rotated every 4 weeks.


This is my current workout

Chest [Dips 3x10] [Incline DB press 3x8] Flat DB bench [3x6]

Back [Wide lat pull 3x12] [One arm seated row 3x8] [V grip latpull 3x8] [widegrip seated row 3x12]

Shoulders/traps [Seated DB press 3x8] [Standing lateral flare 3x8] [DB Shrugs 4x8] [Uprightrow 3x6] [Reverse laying laterals 3x8]

Arms [DB curls 3x8] [DB preachers 3x6] [Close grip bench 4x6] [2 handed DB extension 3x10]

Legs [Front squat 4x6] [Leg press 3x10] [Calf raise 4x12] [laying ham curls 3x8]

From a back view i have had problems with a few joints down there so any emphasis on it is a no no atm, deads are out and BB rows annoy the hell out of it.
That is one cycle of my routine the other is basically the same but more barbel orientated whereas this is primarily based around dumbells.

Am i way off here or does that look ok.

 

[bigcity]

There is no guarantee, I have seen gain tons while some stuggle, Thats why when people rely on AAS to get big they usually fail, You have to train hard and eat for years before putting quality muscle on.

 

[0-hero]

I totally agree with you mate i wasent expecting to be ronnie overnight, not even in this lifetime but after researching so much and employing what i had learnt to be an optimal environment for growth on AAS the pro's when faced with the long term cons of usage havent been favourable thus far.

I will plug on though regardless of what meds i use.

 

[Nullifidian]

Get your thyroid checked out first off. If you are hypothyroid that doesn't just mean you aren't burning as many calories, it means less of your food is getting utilized for ANYTHING. It means more food is completely wasted. If you are hypothyroid, a constant moderate dose of T3 or T4 depending on what you are deficient in, should actually help not only with fat loss but with muscle gains as well.


Second, use the Swale Protocol for HCG use. DO NOT use HCG during PCT. Use 250-500IU twice weekly WHILE ON. Start the first week of cycle and take the final shot the first day of the last week of the cycle. Wait until all AAS and the HCG have cleared your system before beginning PCT. HCG stays in your system 6 days.

Using that protocol should help keep any gains from your cycle. Be sure to eat right post cycle of course. In fact I would recommend you actually slightly increase caloric intake during PCT. Yes you may gain fat, but at least you will be less likely to lose muscle.

 

[exnihilo]

Word on increasing calories during PCT. DHEA at 200-400mg/day is also a must IMO.

If you want to get lean, run tren, run it in high doses, and run it the entire cycle. That steroid is a miracle. 500-700mg of tren/week (if you can handle it) will rep fat off you and increase your strength phenominally.

I would reduce the volume a touch if I were you. Like, 2 exercises per body part, not more than 3-4 sets per exercise, 5-8 reps per set, not to failure.

 

[0-hero]

The problem i have with tren is the severe sweats. I already sweat a profound amount so much so if i go on a car journey for more than 30mins i have to take another top to change when i get there because it would be soaked through.

Emabressing i know but ive been like it since i was well over 300lbs and its never gone away.

When i have run tren in the past i found it unreal at EOD strength kicked in fast but also found it only amplified the sweating especially at nighttime, i live with my parents and my gf stays over a lot, a lot of questions were being asked.

Although my gf doesnt exactly mind the gear use she wouldnt understand that sweating extra is a norm on tren, and would instantly surmise i was in danger danger lol.

Is there anyway to stop the sweats on tren? or at least curb them.

 

[exnihilo]

wear a light, skintight undershirt to absorb sweat away from your skin during the day. At night, put a towel on your pillow...

Can't do much about it bro, just man up and live with it, tell your girl you're taking a weight loss supplement and say that it causes excessive sweating. You want results you have to pay a price, not like it's a big one.

 

[0-hero]

Your right sunshine.

Thanks for the advice and patience guys.

 

[BIGPHILL1984]

I would say the opposite actually about training. I have to do high sets loads to build good size, but it is genetics, and I hardly ever have signs of overtraining. I would say hit each bodypart in the teens to 20 as far as sets and low reps from 6-8. But that is me.

 

[exnihilo]

Bigphil: I was like you for the first few years I trained. As I've gotten stronger and stronger I can handle less and less volume... Just remember to listen to your body, and if you get plateau'd or start to feel achey or off, cut the volume down.

 

[BOHICA]

I would say the opposite actually about training. I have to do high sets loads to build good size, but it is genetics, and I hardly ever have signs of overtraining. I would say hit each bodypart in the teens to 20 as far as sets and low reps from 6-8. But that is me.

Holy **** lol. I think my body would kill me in my sleep if I did that. But I know people who grow on that, so its best to try out different things to see what works best for you.