Test for cutting

Brain5ick

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Is there much of a point of running test solo during a cut? Just curious. I’d stack it with Var myself but hypothetically would there be much of a benefit?
 
AnabolicGuru

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Maybe to help prevent muscle loss, but if I wanted a steroid for cutting, I’d go for something with actual hardening effects such as winny, mast, tren, etc
 

Brain5ick

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Maybe to help prevent muscle loss, but if I wanted a steroid for cutting, I’d go for something with actual hardening effects such as winny, mast, tren, etc
Yeah there’s definitely better options than solo test. To prevent muscle loss I’d just use a sarm though. I feel like Test could aid in fat loss but not to a great extent.
 

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Test is vital in fat loss. It's androgens,assist in proper glucose storage and use, and it will help prevent you feeling like ****,lazy and wanting to eat loads of crap.
 
Jinsun

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Maybe to help prevent muscle loss, but if I wanted a steroid for cutting, I’d go for something with actual hardening effects such as winny, mast, tren, etc
All of that goes away when you go off cycle. You could cut on dbol or any other androgen for that matter.
 
RickyBlobby

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Anavar has been clinically proven to burn stomach fat, in particular, more than test.

250mg/week of test + 50mg of var + clenbuterol would be a potent, mild combo. If youo want you could also add ALCAR, it is very good sh!t too for burning fat with no side effects.
 
Jinsun

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Anavar has been clinically proven to burn stomach fat, in particular, more than test.

250mg/week of test + 50mg of var + clenbuterol would be a potent, mild combo. If youo want you could also add ALCAR, it is very good sh!t too for burning fat with no side effects.
Have you used alcar before? I'm interested...
 
Matthersby

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All good advice and good drugs recommended. But if Test is all you have, I’d absolutely run it to cut. Some steroids are far better for cutting, but when it comes down to it, I won’t cut, ever, without AAS. Why throw away muscle that you earned?
 
YoungThor

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All of that goes away when you go off cycle. You could cut on dbol or any other androgen for that matter.
I’m glad you said that. I’m cutting on 22mg of lgd even though people recommend bulking with this sarm.
 
RickyBlobby

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Have you used alcar before? I'm interested...
Yes, it worked great for me. Also I turned a co worker onto it, who was on a strict diet/ workout regimine and he went from losing 1lb peer week to 2.5lbs per week! I think it has other benefits too other than fat burning.
 

Brain5ick

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I’m glad you said that. I’m cutting on 22mg of lgd even though people recommend bulking with this sarm.
Let me know how that goes, I was thinking of doing the same thing for curiosity sake.
 
RickyBlobby

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Let me know how that goes, I was thinking of doing the same thing for curiosity sake.
It depends on how much self control you have, because LGD makes most people super hungry. I tried it for 4 weeks during a cut and found myself constantly eating. Dropped it and stayed on S23 and found S23 to be pretty damn good during a cut.
 
warriorscode8

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im cutting with test right now, with only yohimbine thrown in. its working AWESOME> id love to try winny though
 
Jinsun

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I’m glad you said that. I’m cutting on 22mg of lgd even though people recommend bulking with this sarm.
That's only bc of the watter retention that it causes. Watter goes away when you go off cycle. This are just bodybuilding rules, ie. you wont use a "bulker" for a show prep in the last weeks bc it wont make you look hard and grainy. But for us that dont compete this doesn't make much sense as all the hardness from winny or all the veins from var will go away when you go off cycle - which you willonce you are finishd with your cut.

Anabolics are nutrient partitiioners. All of them. Plus they are anticatabolic. But as Ricky said, if it makes you hungry it probably isn't a good cutter :D Like for me, using mk677 in a cut just makes me suffer to much.
 
Jinsun

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It depends on how much self control you have, because LGD makes most people super hungry. I tried it for 4 weeks during a cut and found myself constantly eating. Dropped it and stayed on S23 and found S23 to be pretty damn good during a cut.
Wow, I have to check this stuff out lol.
 
mikeymike85

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Maybe to help prevent muscle loss, but if I wanted a steroid for cutting, I’d go for something with actual hardening effects such as winny, mast, tren, etc
How do you not include Var in there? Var makes me extremely hard. No homo
 
Stickyseeds

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My last cut cycle was test (always test) boldonone also known as equipoise or eq and masterone. Would love to switch the eq with tren but the wife won’t allow it lol. It dosent matter what you take for the most part diet is everything.
 

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Imo var is waste if your diet is on point test is fine. If ur dead set on a stack tren, or if u get low enough in bf mast is great but only if ur low in bf
 
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That's only bc of the watter retention that it causes. Watter goes away when you go off cycle. This are just bodybuilding rules, ie. you wont use a "bulker" for a show prep in the last weeks bc it wont make you look hard and grainy. But for us that dont compete this doesn't make much sense as all the hardness from winny or all the veins from var will go away when you go off cycle - which you willonce you are finishd with your cut.

Anabolics are nutrient partitiioners. All of them. Plus they are anticatabolic. But as Ricky said, if it makes you hungry it probably isn't a good cutter :D Like for me, using mk677 in a cut just makes me suffer to much.
Well not really.. people use SD and Drol just to get that pump in the muscles before a show but yeah for the average beachboy you'd be good with some winny. You can look grainy with anything if you mix compounds.

Winny really isn't that close to var in my opinion. Winstrol will make you dry and lean very fast while var can actually bloat you, it definitely makes you fuller. You won't lose all definition if you do everything correct but yes it's impossible to keep the definition 100%.
 
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Imo var is waste if your diet is on point test is fine. If ur dead set on a stack tren, or if u get low enough in bf mast is great but only if ur low in bf

No steroid is as effective if you're not on low body fat if we want to look ripped. Since mast doesn't add size yeah preferably you need to be kinda lean but it definitely adds definition even if you're not and if you run it for 12 weeks you have a lot of time to make it work.

You also don't run mast alone which makes it worth adding to improve the cycle.
 
RickyBlobby

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Imo var is waste if your diet is on point test is fine. If ur dead set on a stack tren, or if u get low enough in bf mast is great but only if ur low in bf
I can try and find the study, but they did an experiment pitting anavar vs testosterone to see if either promoted abdominal fat loss. The test group did not lose any significant abdominal fat however the anavar group lost a substantial amount. Var directly targets abdominal fat, I tell ya.
 
RickyBlobby

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Here is one study, there are better ones hold up

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15472177

Effects of androgen therapy on adipose tissue and metabolism in older men.

Schroeder ET1, Zheng L, Ong MD, Martinez C, Flores C, Stewart Y, Azen C, Sattler FR.



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Abstract

We investigated the effects of oxandrolone on regional fat compartments and markers of metabolism. Thirty-two 60- to 87-yr-old men (body mass index, 28.1 +/- 3.4 kg/m(2)) were randomized to oxandrolone (20 mg/d; n = 20) or matching placebo (n = 12) treatment for 12 wk. Oxandrolone reduced total (-1.8 +/- 1.0 kg; P < 0.001), trunk (-1.2 +/- 0.6 kg; P < 0.001), and appendicular (-0.6 +/- 0.6 kg; P < 0.001) fat, as determined by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry. The changes in total and trunk fat were greater (P < 0.001) than the changes with placebo. By magnetic resonance imaging, visceral adipose tissue decreased (-20.9 +/- 12 cm(2); P < 0.001), abdominal sc adipose tissue (SAT) declined (-10.7 +/- 12.1 cm(2); P = 0.043), the ratio VAT/SAT declined from 0.57 +/- 0.23 to 0.49 +/- 0.19 (P = 0.002), and proximal and distal thigh SC fat declined [-8.3 +/- 6.7 cm(2) (P < 0.001) and -2.2 +/- 3.0 kg (P = 0.004), respectively]. Changes in proximal and distal thigh SC fat with oxandrolone were different than with placebo (P = 0.018 and P = 0.059). A marker of insulin sensitivity (quantitative insulin sensitivity check index) improved with oxandrolone by 0.0041 +/- 0.0071 (P = 0.018) at study wk 12. Changes in total fat, abdominal SAT, and proximal extremity SC fat were correlated with changes in fasting insulin from baseline to study wk 12 (r >or= 0.45; P < 0.05). Losses of total fat and SAT were greater in men with baseline testosterone of 10.4 nmol/liter or less (<or= 300 ng/dl) than in those with higher levels [-2.5 +/- 1.1 vs. -1.5 +/- 0.8 kg (P = 0.036) and -24.1 +/- 14.3 vs. -2.9 +/- 21.3 cm(2) (P = 0.03), respectively]. Twelve weeks after discontinuing oxandrolone, 83% of the reductions in total, trunk, and extremity fat by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry scanning were sustained (P < 0.02). Androgen therapy, therefore, produced significant and durable reductions in regional abdominal and peripheral adipose tissue that were associated with improvements in estimates of insulin sensitivity. However, high-density lipoprotein cholesterol decreased by -0.49 +/- 0.21 mmol/liter and directly measured low-density lipoprotein cholesterol increased by 0.57 +/- 0.67 mmol/liter and non-high-density lipoprotein cholesterol increased by 0.54 +/- 0.97 mmol/liter (P < 0.03 for each) during treatment with oxandrolone; these changes were largely reversible. Thus, therapy with an androgen that does not adversely affect lipids may be beneficial for some components of the metabolic syndrome in overweight older men with low testosterone levels.
 
RickyBlobby

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Here we go

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8574271

Oral anabolic steroid treatment, but not parenteral androgen treatment, decreases abdominal fat in obese, older men.

Lovejoy JC1, Bray GA, Greeson CS, Klemperer M, Morris J, Partington C, Tulley R.



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Abstract

OBJECTIVE:

To compare the effects of testosterone enanthate (TE), anabolic steroid (anavar) (AS) or placebo (PL) on regional fat distribution and health risk factors in obese middle-aged men undergoing weight loss by dietary means.

DESIGN:

Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial, carried out for 9 months with primary assessments at 3 month intervals. Due to adverse blood lipid changes, the AS group was switched from oral oxandrolone (ASOX) to parenteral nandrolone decaoate (ASND) after the 3 month assessment point.

SUBJECTS:

Thirty healthy, obese men, aged 40-60 years, with serum testosterone (T) levels in the low-normal range (2-5 ng/mL).

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:

Abdominal fat distribution and thigh muscle volume by CT scan, body composition by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), insulin sensitivity by the Minimal Model method, blood lipids, blood chemistry, blood pressure, thyroid hormones and urological parameters.

RESULTS:

After 3 months, there was a significantly greater decrease in subcutaneous (SQ) abdominal fat in the ASOX group compared to the TE and PL groups although body weight changes did not differ by treatment group. There was also a tendency for the ASOX group to exhibit greater losses in visceral fat, and the absolute level of visceral fat in this group was significantly lower at 3 months than in the TE and PL groups. There were significant main effects of treatment at 3 months on serum T and free T (increased in the TE group and decreased in the ASOX group) and on thyroid hormone parameters (T4 and T3 resin uptake significantly decreased in the ASOX group compared with the other two groups). There was a significant decrease in HDL-C, and increase in LDL-C in the ASOX group, which led to their being switched to the parenteral nandrolone decanoate (ASND) after 3 months. ASND had opposite effects on visceral fat from ASOX, producing a significant increase from 3 to 9 months while continuing to decrease SQ abdominal fat. ASND treatment also decreased thigh muscle area, while ASOX treatment increased high muscle. ASND reversed the effects of ASOX on lipoproteins and thyroid hormones. The previously reported effect of T to decrease visceral fat was not observed, in fact, visceral fat in the TE group increased slightly from 3 to 9 months, although SQ fat continued to decrease. Neither TE nor AS treatment resulted in any change in urologic parameters.

CONCLUSIONS:

Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than TE or weight loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat. TE and ASND injections given every 2 weeks had similar effects to weight loss alone on regional body fat. Most of the beneficial effects observed on metabolic and cardiovascular risk factors were due to weight loss per se. These results suggest that SQ and visceral abdominal fat can be independently modulated by androgens and that at least some anabolic steroids are capable of influencing abdominal fat.
 
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Here we go

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8574271

Oral anabolic steroid treatment, but not parenteral androgen treatment, decreases abdominal fat in obese, older men.

Lovejoy JC1, Bray GA, Greeson CS, Klemperer M, Morris J, Partington C, Tulley R.



Author information


Abstract

OBJECTIVE:

To compare the effects of testosterone enanthate (TE), anabolic steroid (anavar) (AS) or placebo (PL) on regional fat distribution and health risk factors in obese middle-aged men undergoing weight loss by dietary means.

DESIGN:

Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial, carried out for 9 months with primary assessments at 3 month intervals. Due to adverse blood lipid changes, the AS group was switched from oral oxandrolone (ASOX) to parenteral nandrolone decaoate (ASND) after the 3 month assessment point.

SUBJECTS:

Thirty healthy, obese men, aged 40-60 years, with serum testosterone (T) levels in the low-normal range (2-5 ng/mL).

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:

Abdominal fat distribution and thigh muscle volume by CT scan, body composition by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), insulin sensitivity by the Minimal Model method, blood lipids, blood chemistry, blood pressure, thyroid hormones and urological parameters.

RESULTS:

After 3 months, there was a significantly greater decrease in subcutaneous (SQ) abdominal fat in the ASOX group compared to the TE and PL groups although body weight changes did not differ by treatment group. There was also a tendency for the ASOX group to exhibit greater losses in visceral fat, and the absolute level of visceral fat in this group was significantly lower at 3 months than in the TE and PL groups. There were significant main effects of treatment at 3 months on serum T and free T (increased in the TE group and decreased in the ASOX group) and on thyroid hormone parameters (T4 and T3 resin uptake significantly decreased in the ASOX group compared with the other two groups). There was a significant decrease in HDL-C, and increase in LDL-C in the ASOX group, which led to their being switched to the parenteral nandrolone decanoate (ASND) after 3 months. ASND had opposite effects on visceral fat from ASOX, producing a significant increase from 3 to 9 months while continuing to decrease SQ abdominal fat. ASND treatment also decreased thigh muscle area, while ASOX treatment increased high muscle. ASND reversed the effects of ASOX on lipoproteins and thyroid hormones. The previously reported effect of T to decrease visceral fat was not observed, in fact, visceral fat in the TE group increased slightly from 3 to 9 months, although SQ fat continued to decrease. Neither TE nor AS treatment resulted in any change in urologic parameters.

CONCLUSIONS:

Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than TE or weight loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat. TE and ASND injections given every 2 weeks had similar effects to weight loss alone on regional body fat. Most of the beneficial effects observed on metabolic and cardiovascular risk factors were due to weight loss per se. These results suggest that SQ and visceral abdominal fat can be independently modulated by androgens and that at least some anabolic steroids are capable of influencing abdominal fat.
Anavar increases metabolism and prevents muscle waste while in deficit. It doesn't directly target fatcells. It basically makes it easier to get lean compared to testosterone but you'd also have to look at effective dose for this.
 
Jinsun

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I've read this studies before, just the outlines you posted here. The first one doesn't really matter as there is no other group with a different aas. The second study, and this one gets posted all over the forums, is done on obese elderly man. We are not one or the other :) Also I would really like to know what were the dosages of Test e and that of var. Also the group that took var had a significant drop in test, lol no chit! They should have given both groups test, one group just as a base and the other something like 500mg, and then compare. I know this study looks promising, but just based on it alone I wouldn't bet all my money on var, especially as we don't know the details of the study. The Test group might have been on a low dose T for all we know. Maybe they gave like 250mg T to the TE group and something like 50mg of var to the other... What was the overall fat loss of both gruops, how was theirs diet adherence...? Well, you get the point :)

For me, var doesn't do anything special to visceral fat. I just ran it, got veins, got harder, got cramps all over, got hot and sweaty as hell, but belly fat; nothing special in my case.
 
RickyBlobby

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I'ver read a bunch of logs too about amazing recomp ability on var. I myself experienced this as well. When looking at the big picture there is a lot of evidence pointing to anavar as the steroid of choice when cutting. 250mg test 50mg var did me right.
 

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Issue with most var is its ugl and the raws cost a lot ive sent tons of var to get tested most comes back low dose dbol
 
mikeymike85

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I can try and find the study, but they did an experiment pitting anavar vs testosterone to see if either promoted abdominal fat loss. The test group did not lose any significant abdominal fat however the anavar group lost a substantial amount. Var directly targets abdominal fat, I tell ya.
I agree, and can concur. Var can transform your midsection if your diet and cardio is on point. No other AAS or DS have ever cut me up like Var. You discover new cuts week 3-8.
 
mikeymike85

mikeymike85

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Var is bomb. Anyone who doesnt agree hasn't run real var or high enough. No sides and amazing cutting ability. I try to run it at least once a year, it costs over 10$ a day tho lol
 
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You haven't tried real var, var is the best fat burner bla bla.. It doesn't target fat cells and it's not the best cutter and it's overpriced as hell. Instead of saying you didn't have the real thing maybe you should ask yourself did (I) have the right thing? Was it actually winstrol or anadrol?

Epistane is stronger than var and a 5th of the price for God sake. I mean if it works for you whatever you get by all means.. And yeah it's not as safe as people make it out to be, it most definitely does its thing on your cholesterol.
 

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The problem with these studies is they are grossly underpowered. The design is crap. I scratch my head when researchers take 30 fat guys and make sweeping conclusions about cause and effect. At BEST, there was an association, but with so few subjects, who really knows? Var is expensive and typically underdosed via UGLs. When you run it with other things, I think it's hard to tell how much the results are due to var vs. other confounders (including diet and training).
 

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