30 y/o, genetic test shows that I have zero bodybuilding potential. How to proceed?

[SpicedCider]

Just like the thread title says, I had a genetic test done (www.fitnessgenes.com, if you're curious) that shows that I have no fast-twitch muscle whatsoever and that I also have other genetic markers that suggest I have basically zero bodybuilding potential. These results don't come as a surprise to me, as I have always had a very hard time gaining muscle/strength, despite the fact that I have always focused on using good form, ensuring there is a solid "mind-muscle connection," eating at least 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight, etc. I am basically that guy who works out at the gym and looks like he doesn't even exercise, despite the fact that there are other guys in the gym around my age who work out with crappy form, have garbage diets, and yet are somehow at least fairly muscular. People usually say to maximize your genetic potential before moving to PEDs, but what if someone's genetic potential is absurdly low? (Food for thought...)

So anyways, now that I'm 30 years old and after a solid decade-plus of wasting every minute I've spent in the gym, I'm ready to get serious and take action so that I can actually start getting results from working out in the gym. Some of you may be aware that I am currently in the midst of the final 4 weeks of a 12-week Ostarine cycle (first 8 weeks at 20 mg/day, final four weeks at 25 mg/day). So far, I have gained about 4 pounds according to the scale, I look more muscular overall (back is wider/arms are thicker/chest is more square), and I look leaner and more vascular. Weight is up on every single lift as well.

Needless to say, my experience with Ostarine has gotten me hooked on PEDs. The sad thing is that Ostarine is regarded as such a mild compound, but given my history in terms of what I've been able to achieve in the gym ever since I started working out at age 18, the gains I've made so far are really impressive to me. I can only imagine what I could achieve with more potent compounds.

So having said that, once my Ostarine wraps up (and I've taken at least a 4-6 wk break), I'm looking to start a cycle of something much more hardcore, and I was wondering if you guys would be willing to give me suggestions on what to run. I was thinking about a cycle of something like either Trestolone or Mechabol, especially since both of them are regarded as being "feel-good" compounds (would prefer to avoid something that makes you feel super lethargic or depressed). I would also rather avoid pinning at this point, but the other option (based on my research) would be to jump straight to legit gear with something like a cycle of Test E at 250-500 mg/week.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance

 

[SpicedCider]

^^ Damn, didn't realize I had written such a huge wall of text.

 

[BlockBuilder]

You wasted your money. This is a complete scam. FitnessGenes? Really?

 

[SpicedCider]

You wasted your money. This is a complete scam. FitnessGenes? Really?

How is it a scam? Unless the test results themselves are inaccurate, isn't bodybuilding potential influenced by genetic factors? Each allele test also shows (based on population studies) the estimated % of the population that has the same genetic factors as you. For certain alleles, it estimated that only 1-2% of the population has the same profile as me (and in a "bottom 1%-ile," not "top 1%-ile" way).

 

[hairygrandpa]

There is a LOT of stuff out there -but keeping in mind: no pinning, simplicity, well being, suppression recovery, low sides, "liver friendly" here
my suggestions:
6 weeks:
T-bol 60mg/d 60/60/60/60/60/60 or Anavar 50mg/d 50/50/50/50/50/50
together with Toremifene 60mg/d for 9 weeks: 60/60/60/60/60/60/60/60/60 or chlomid 25mg/d 25/25/25/25/25/25/25/25/25

T-bol is more for a lean bulk and is slightly liver toxic but a really "feel good" compound. Anavar shines more in a cut and is the least suppressive and toxic compound but could cause lethargy, especially in the first two weeks. Neither of both converts to estrogen.
I would not use Trestolone for now, as it is VERY suppressive and converts to a nasty form of estrogen, that could be hard to control, it also rises prolactin and you may end up with tits AND lactating.

Both Anavar and T-bol are often faked and fairly expensive, you will need a good source.

 

[SpicedCider]

There is a LOT of stuff out there -but keeping in mind: no pinning, simplicity, well being, suppression recovery, low sides, "liver friendly" here
my suggestions:
6 weeks:
T-bol 60mg/d 60/60/60/60/60/60 or Anavar 50mg/d 50/50/50/50/50/50
together with Toremifene 60mg/d for 9 weeks: 60/60/60/60/60/60/60/60/60 or chlomid 25mg/d 25/25/25/25/25/25/25/25/25

T-bol is more for a lean bulk and is slightly liver toxic but a really "feel good" compound. Anavar shines more in a cut and is the least suppressive and toxic compound but could cause lethargy, especially in the first two weeks. Neither of both converts to estrogen.
I would not use Trestolone for now, as it is VERY suppressive and converts to a nasty form of estrogen, that could be hard to control, it also rises prolactin and you may end up with tits AND lactating.

Both Anavar and T-bol are often faked and fairly expensive, you will need a good source.

Thanks, this is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. It seems like you get the gist of what I'm looking for, but I probably should've added in my original post that in addition to wanting a "feel-good" compound (or at least not a "feel-bad" compound), I would also like something that causes as little bloat as possible (or preferably none at all) and only promotes lean mass gains. I would rather take something that helps me to "only" gain 7-8 pounds of pure lean mass with zero water retention than to take a compound that results in me gaining 20+ pounds, with the majority of it being water weight/glycogen retention. I'd also like something that promotes a lean/vascular look; I'm seeing a moderate amount of this with Ostarine, and it's really addictive, especially since I've never looked this lean at any other point in my life.

Quick question -- is it necessary to take torem/clomid during a T-bol cycle if it doesn't convert to estrogen? Also, how much lean mass (I.e., not water weight/glycogen retention) can someone expect to gain from an 8-9 week cycle of T-bol?

Thanks

 

[Power-Lift]

Why would you even bother? Just lift hard and heavy, take your Flintstones Vitamins and keep doing it.
I started in 1977, Im here still loving it more than ever 41 years later. Never had access to drugs until 2009 (After 31 years of natty).

Feck that genetic bull-****e test, just lift, eat, feck, sleep, repeat... Im 52 next month, Iron is my life... always has ben since 1977...

 

[SpicedCider]

Why would you even bother? Just lift hard and heavy, take your Flintstones Vitamins and keep doing it.
I started in 1977, Im here still loving it more than ever 41 years later. Never had access to drugs until 2009 (After 31 years of natty).

Feck that genetic bull-****e test, just lift, eat, feck, sleep, repeat... Im 52 next month, Iron is my life... always has ben since 1977...

Congratulations on your progress; you have obviously done really well over the years with lifting and gaining muscle. The reason I'd like to start taking PEDs more often is not just because of the results of the genetics test -- moreso, it's the fact that the genetics test basically confirms what I've suspected all along based on my experiences in the gym and with gaining muscle. (Having a torn labrum and rotator cuff doesn't help either)

 

[Renew1]

Congratulations on your progress; you have obviously done really well over the years with lifting and gaining muscle. The reason I'd like to start taking PEDs more often is not just because of the results of the genetics test -- moreso, it's the fact that the genetics test basically confirms what I've suspected all along based on my experiences in the gym and with gaining muscle. (Having a torn labrum and rotator cuff doesn't help either)

That test is.....quite a LOAD. Don't just swallow what you're fed.

But its obvious from your post and responses that you've done very little research into the compounds that you think are going to change all of that. Trest is KNOWN for bloat. You should know that, Brother. Studying IS something that you have control over.

It's always very tempting to believe that we aren't responsible for our situation, but we are. No matter what some test may say.

Keep working and studying hard, bro....THAT is what determines our outcome.

 

[aovereem]

Perhaps you're not doing what's necessary while in the gym. I'd say 95% of people you see in the gym are wasting their time. Are you making every set, every rep count? Are you pushing yourself to the limit while deadlifting or fighting your fear and anxiety while getting under the bar for those super heavy overhead presses or squats? Or are you content with just sitting on your ass "squeezing" in some stupid machine just because Phil Heath does it?

Btw, ostarine is a sh1t substance with the worst gains to side-effects ratio I've ever experienced..

 

[Renew1]

These PhD geneticists have some strong opinions about these tests......

But according to Claude Bouchard, Ph.D., and director of the human genomics laboratory at Pennington Biomedical Research Center in Baton Rouge, LA, not enough is understood about underlying science behind most of these direct-to-consumer tests to provide valid recommendations.

“When it comes to these current genetic tests for fitness and performance, they have almost zero predictive power,” he says.

The author of this Self article also points out that “A group of 23 geneticists from around the world agreed, as they wrote, along with Bouchard, in a consensus statement in the British Journal of Sports Medicine in September. The key takeaway: Although this field has grown tremendously in recent years, the science is still in its earliest stages, and at the moment, tests relying on it hold no value.”

https://www.highya.com/fitnessgenes-reviews

 

[mikeymike85]

Why wouldn't they check your test levels then? Kind of redundant taking test if your test levels are good with no "fast twitch muscle". Never heard of such things. Anyhow anavar and Tbol seem to be your only option. Anavar is 1000x better than Osta.

 

[YoungThor]

Every man has the genetic potential to put on a lot of mass unless he has some disease. If you don’t have some disease or atrociously low test levels then your not training and eating hard enough. Are you pushing yourself as hard as possible in exercises you don’t like doing. Maybe it’s pull-ups and deadlifts, or something else? Are you changing your routine constantly? You don’t need to follow a plan either, you could make adjustments to your workout every time your in the gym. And maybe you need 6-7 LARGE meals a day. Keep pushing yourself.

 

[BloodManor]

I bet your diet is **** and that you don’t go hard enough in the gym/program sucks - no offense
Don’t buy into those genetic things, not everyone has the best genetics for bodybuilding but work hard enough and you will see plenty of results

 

[Whisky]

Just like the thread title says, I had a genetic test done (www.fitnessgenes.com, if you're curious) that shows that I have no fast-twitch muscle whatsoever and that I also have other genetic markers that suggest I have basically zero bodybuilding potential. These results don't come as a surprise to me, as I have always had a very hard time gaining muscle/strength, despite the fact that I have always focused on using good form, ensuring there is a solid "mind-muscle connection," eating at least 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight, etc. I am basically that guy who works out at the gym and looks like he doesn't even exercise, despite the fact that there are other guys in the gym around my age who work out with crappy form, have garbage diets, and yet are somehow at least fairly muscular. People usually say to maximize your genetic potential before moving to PEDs, but what if someone's genetic potential is absurdly low? (Food for thought...)

So anyways, now that I'm 30 years old and after a solid decade-plus of wasting every minute I've spent in the gym, I'm ready to get serious and take action so that I can actually start getting results from working out in the gym. Some of you may be aware that I am currently in the midst of the final 4 weeks of a 12-week Ostarine cycle (first 8 weeks at 20 mg/day, final four weeks at 25 mg/day). So far, I have gained about 4 pounds according to the scale, I look more muscular overall (back is wider/arms are thicker/chest is more square), and I look leaner and more vascular. Weight is up on every single lift as well.

Needless to say, my experience with Ostarine has gotten me hooked on PEDs. The sad thing is that Ostarine is regarded as such a mild compound, but given my history in terms of what I've been able to achieve in the gym ever since I started working out at age 18, the gains I've made so far are really impressive to me. I can only imagine what I could achieve with more potent compounds.

So having said that, once my Ostarine wraps up (and I've taken at least a 4-6 wk break), I'm looking to start a cycle of something much more hardcore, and I was wondering if you guys would be willing to give me suggestions on what to run. I was thinking about a cycle of something like either Trestolone or Mechabol, especially since both of them are regarded as being "feel-good" compounds (would prefer to avoid something that makes you feel super lethargic or depressed). I would also rather avoid pinning at this point, but the other option (based on my research) would be to jump straight to legit gear with something like a cycle of Test E at 250-500 mg/week.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance

Hey bro, Personally I get the impression that you have probably been doing the right things in the gym and that you are u unfortunate with genetics (test or no test, some of us have bad genetics for lifting, that’s well known).

As you’ve admitted you’ve seen what peds can do and your hooked (I was exactly the same).......30 isn’t a bad age to go that route either imo.

If you are happy to pin then that’ll be your best option - a test e cycle as a stand-alone would give decent results and you’ll keep the gains. As hairygrandpa points out, TBOL and VAR are additional options (I’d run test with them personally) with low sides.

If you don’t want to pin then personally I’d suggest a 1/4/epiandro cycle for 8 weeks at 330/330/1000 - this as my first ph cycle (many others have also run it) and I was up over 7lbs at end of pct, kept the significant strength gains I made and looked leaner and more vascular than I ever had. Sides are pretty low, it does cost a bit to run the right doses though.

Regardless of which way you go you must research the heck out of the compounds though bro, you’ll be taking things that affect your natural hormones and you’ll need appropriate supports AND A PROPER PCT.

There are loads of cycle logs on here for those cycles.

Incidentally I’d swerve the trest for now (I’ve just finished a cycle on it), it’s an amazing compound and I loved it but lots of people have issues. One for a year or two down the line imo

 

[YoungThor]

It would help if we knew your exact issue. Are you the type of guy who is perpetually skinny in spite of your efforts or do your efforts lead you to just add fat instead of muscle? Nobody has mentioned winstrol but that’ll likely add double the mass that anavar would and it’ll probably add a little more than tbol. But it comes with more risk.

And dude, I’m serious about changing your routine up. After 12 years of no results, I’d have canceled my gym membership. Screw bro splits if they’re not working. Do labor based/strongman exercises. Fill a wheelbarrow with a lot of stone and dirt and see how far you can push it. Do 50 reps. Take two 50 lb sand bags, one for each shoulder and walk up and down your steps. Do 50 reps. Throw in some calisthenics and push yourself to failure. Create a unique routine like this and you will grow. And eat a couple lbs of meat a day. Don’t count grams of protein, count lbs of meat.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Thanks, this is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. It seems like you get the gist of what I'm looking for, but I probably should've added in my original post that in addition to wanting a "feel-good" compound (or at least not a "feel-bad" compound), I would also like something that causes as little bloat as possible (or preferably none at all) and only promotes lean mass gains. I would rather take something that helps me to "only" gain 7-8 pounds of pure lean mass with zero water retention than to take a compound that results in me gaining 20+ pounds, with the majority of it being water weight/glycogen retention. I'd also like something that promotes a lean/vascular look; I'm seeing a moderate amount of this with Ostarine, and it's really addictive, especially since I've never looked this lean at any other point in my life.

Quick question -- is it necessary to take torem/clomid during a T-bol cycle if it doesn't convert to estrogen? Also, how much lean mass (I.e., not water weight/glycogen retention) can someone expect to gain from an 8-9 week cycle of T-bol?

Thanks

My suggested compounds do not bloat at all, they are "dry". You will not get elevated e2 levels from chlomid/torem from this particular cycle. I'm too lazy to explain why.
Gaining muscles is entirely due to a surplus of calories in conjunction with proper training, not from a few grams of chemicals. Yes, you can gain 7 pounds of lean muscles doing those cycles. I would not go longer on T-bol without testosterone as a base. The suggested cycle is for "non-pinners".
The moment testosterone comes into play, all changes.

Edit: No further PCT needed for suggested cycles. No harsh e2 rebound to expect either.

 

[Matthersby]

My genetics are crap, I’m almost 80% Irish, loads of body fat, skinny legs, imbalances everywhere. low reps do next to nothing for me, drop sets, supersets, negatives, and better TuT work better. My back blows up with nothing under 15 reps, sometimes I need high volume, sometimes not so much,
but I won’t continue doing things that don’t work for me. I can’t imagine the tenacity involved with a decade plus of results that weren’t satisfying me. Drugs never solved one thing for me with my diet and training, they simply accelerated the results that I already know how to get with years and years of trial and error, trying 10/1 things that didn’t work vs things that have.

 

[heckler7]

I didnt read the entire thread just some of your original post. its true that some have better genetics, but that doesnt mean you should give up, you can still put in the work and improve yourself if not for the sole reason to be healthy and happy. being a massive freak isnt all there is in life, you can be fit and have abs. girls dont give a **** how much you can bench but they love abs!

 

[hairygrandpa]

I didnt read the entire thread just some of your original post. its true that some have better genetics, but that doesnt mean you should give up, you can still put in the work and improve yourself if not for the sole reason to be healthy and happy. being a massive freak isnt all there is in life, you can be fit and have abs. girls dont give a **** how much you can bench but they love money

^^^Corrected.

Girls may love abs -but smart girls know, that a guy with abs has only love for his own body and is no fun to hang out with (no eating ice cream together, no drinking, guy is always in front of a mirror -or in the gym).
Me: Too undisciplined to have abs, LOL

 

[heckler7]

^^^Corrected.

Girls may love abs -but smart girls know, that a guy with abs has only love for his own body and is no fun to hang out with (no eating ice cream together, no drinking, guy is always in front of a mirror -or in the gym).
Me: Too undisciplined to have abs, LOL

well if we are gonna get technical than yes, girls love money, then coke, then cars, then well coke then dont give a **** about much else

 

[Whisky]

well if we are gonna get technical than yes, girls love money, then coke, then cars, then well coke then dont give a **** about much else

Yeah this is absolutely legit, I’m a walking example, it’s exactly why I (a proper fatty) got laid in my early 20’s lol.

 

[SpicedCider]

Appreciate the responses that have been posted so far. To answer some of the questions that have been asked above -- regarding body type (@YoungThor), I am basically a classic endomorph who got fat (almost 200 lbs of chunky butt at 5'10" at age 17), then lost it when I started running at around that age. Since I started running, my weight has hovered at around ~165-168 lbs.

Regarding testosterone levels, the only time I had them checked was in May 2013. At the time, Labcorp's "normal" range for total T levels was 348-1197 ng/dL (they recently lowered both ends of the range). I don't remember what it was specifically, but my T level was somewhere between 450-500, so it was definitely on the lower end of the range. Of course, the fact that I've been on an Ostarine cycle would result in an artificially low T number, but I'd be curious to see where my T levels are at after being off Ostarine for a few months. Depending on the result, maybe TRT is the way to go?

I also left out another important detail in my original post, which is that I have a labrum tear in my left shoulder as well as rotator cuff tears in both shoulders. These injuries make it really difficult to lift/pull heavy weights, so in recent months, I have instead begun implementing a higher-volume routine (I try to do at least 30-40 reps per set). Ironically enough, the "recommendations" section of the genetic test actually suggests that I would be most successful following a high-weight, high-volume routine (I.e., "lift as much weight as possible for as many reps as you can handle"). The only way to fix the labrum tear and not have it impede my workouts anymore is via surgery, but between school and work, there just hasn't been any good time to get it done. Unfortunately, the shoulder issues also make it really hard to do strongman/labor-based exercises.

So, yeah, after yielding more overt and substantial results (for me, at least) from taking Ostarine over the past ~9 weeks than I've realized in the past 12 YEARS of working out, I am definitely eager to begin incorporating PEDs into my routine in a safe/responsible manner.

 

[SpicedCider]

Hey bro, Personally I get the impression that you have probably been doing the right things in the gym and that you are u unfortunate with genetics (test or no test, some of us have bad genetics for lifting, that’s well known).

As you’ve admitted you’ve seen what peds can do and your hooked (I was exactly the same).......30 isn’t a bad age to go that route either imo.

If you are happy to pin then that’ll be your best option - a test e cycle as a stand-alone would give decent results and you’ll keep the gains. As hairygrandpa points out, TBOL and VAR are additional options (I’d run test with them personally) with low sides.

If you don’t want to pin then personally I’d suggest a 1/4/epiandro cycle for 8 weeks at 330/330/1000 - this as my first ph cycle (many others have also run it) and I was up over 7lbs at end of pct, kept the significant strength gains I made and looked leaner and more vascular than I ever had. Sides are pretty low, it does cost a bit to run the right doses though.

Regardless of which way you go you must research the heck out of the compounds though bro, you’ll be taking things that affect your natural hormones and you’ll need appropriate supports AND A PROPER PCT.

There are loads of cycle logs on here for those cycles.

Incidentally I’d swerve the trest for now (I’ve just finished a cycle on it), it’s an amazing compound and I loved it but lots of people have issues. One for a year or two down the line imo

Thanks for the advice. I think I'll pass on the trestolone for now. I actually looked into running a 1/4/epiandro cycle, but like you said, it just costs so much money to run a cycle of those compounds at their effective doses. I think at this point, I'll look into running a cycle of T-bol, assuming I can find a legitimate source. I might even go with Mechabol if I can't source T-bol. BTW, I already have a bottle of tamoxifen on hand for PCT for whatever I decide to run a cycle of.

 

[SpicedCider]

My suggested compounds do not bloat at all, they are "dry". You will not get elevated e2 levels from chlomid/torem from this particular cycle. I'm too lazy to explain why.
Gaining muscles is entirely due to a surplus of calories in conjunction with proper training, not from a few grams of chemicals. Yes, you can gain 7 pounds of lean muscles doing those cycles. I would not go longer on T-bol without testosterone as a base. The suggested cycle is for "non-pinners".
The moment testosterone comes into play, all changes.

Edit: No further PCT needed for suggested cycles. No harsh e2 rebound to expect either.

Thanks for the info. What I'm kind of confused about is why it would be necessary to take torem/clomid during the actual cycle itself if T-bol doesn't aromatize. Is the point of taking it to simply prevent any possible HPTA-provoked estrogen rebound?

 

[SpicedCider]

It would help if we knew your exact issue. Are you the type of guy who is perpetually skinny in spite of your efforts or do your efforts lead you to just add fat instead of muscle? Nobody has mentioned winstrol but that’ll likely add double the mass that anavar would and it’ll probably add a little more than tbol. But it comes with more risk.

And dude, I’m serious about changing your routine up. After 12 years of no results, I’d have canceled my gym membership. Screw bro splits if they’re not working. Do labor based/strongman exercises. Fill a wheelbarrow with a lot of stone and dirt and see how far you can push it. Do 50 reps. Take two 50 lb sand bags, one for each shoulder and walk up and down your steps. Do 50 reps. Throw in some calisthenics and push yourself to failure. Create a unique routine like this and you will grow. And eat a couple lbs of meat a day. Don’t count grams of protein, count lbs of meat.

Re: your mention of winstrol -- I have actually considered this one as well, but like you said, it comes with more risks/sides. The "shredding" properties of winstrol are really appealing, though.

 

[YoungThor]

It was suggested that you take a SERM during cycle to reduce the amount of suppression you’ll face. It’s essentially a replacement for a test base.

I dislocated my left shoulder two years ago and it healed to about 80-90% and I dislocated my right shoulder two weeks ago and can’t use that arm at all and I doubt it’ll ever heal close to 100%. So I feel for you. Your situation is worse. Now I recommend an intense cycle for sure because it could even help heal you. Especially hgh.

I’d get your test checked. If it’s on the low end of normal then you can artificially lower it with your next cycle and then get trt.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Thanks for the info. What I'm kind of confused about is why it would be necessary to take torem/clomid during the actual cycle itself if T-bol doesn't aromatize. Is the point of taking it to simply prevent any possible HPTA-provoked estrogen rebound?

The serm keeps your nuts going, preventing shutdown and lethargy from low test. Basically, when coming off of T-bol, you have enough testosterone left to hold on to the gains and recovery will be way faster. Please read about Serms a bit to have an idea. Tamoxifen lowers IGF-1 too much, hence chlomid or torem, with torem being the serm of choice.