Havoc + test base log with pic

[Giovannuzzo]

I'll start in a couple of weeks my 2nd cycle.
I'm 23 y/o 1,90 mt ( 6,2 ft) 90kg (198lbs) bf around 13-14%

Cycle:

-Havoc (epistane) 30/40/40/40/50/50
-Test base ?/?/?/?/?/?

Cycle support:

-Ar1macare pro
-fish oil, garlic extract, aloe vera, multivit, vit C, glucosammine for Joints

Pct:

-Clomid 50/25/25/12.5
-Sup3r pct
-AI on hand, pharma ai correct?

I need something for cortisol control?

Wich test base should I buy? Androtest by fusion supplements is good but very expensive because I need 2 bottles, sup3r 4 elite (olympus labs) is good too?
I need anything more?

Sorry for the english

Target--> cut

 

[Giovannuzzo]

luisca3

 

[rowz4broz]

Innnnn

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Sup3r 4 should work fine as a test base. Everything else looks fine

 

[Giovannuzzo]

Sup3r 4 should work fine as a test base. Everything else looks fine

Thank you for the answer, and dermacrine? It's the same or better?

 

[RickyBlobby]

Dermatrest for a test base. You will double your gains vs taking dermacrine. I used formestane as my aromatase inhibitor and never had a problem.

 

[Giovannuzzo]

Dermatrest for a test base. You will double your gains vs taking dermacrine. I used formestane as my aromatase inhibitor and never had a problem.

My friend with experience in ph suggest me to not use dermatrest because it's very strong and this is my 2nd cycle (1st was ostarine solo).
Do you think dermatrest is ok for me?

I'm not prone to gyno (I think lol), I don't know if buy a real AI or "supplement AI"

 

[RickyBlobby]

My friend with experience in ph suggest me to not use dermatrest because it's very strong and this is my 2nd cycle (1st was ostarine solo).
Do you think dermatrest is ok for me?

I'm not prone to gyno (I think lol), I don't know if buy a real AI or "supplement AI"

My second cycle was epistane, trest and formestane. It was my best cycle too. I am very prone to gyno and formestane kept me perfectly safe. If you cant get formestane you could get aromasin and letro. If the aromasin isn't enough, add letro. That should 99% have you covered. In the unlikely event estrogen sides appear, just reduce your trest dosage. Even 25mg a day of dermatrest would be better than dermacrine. Do it, trust me, no reason not to, like I said you can always lower trest dosage. MA research would be a great place to get your aromatase inhibitors.

 

[Giovannuzzo]

My second cycle was epistane, trest and formestane. It was my best cycle too. I am very prone to gyno and formestane kept me perfectly safe. If you cant get formestane you could get aromasin and letro. If the aromasin isn't enough, add letro. That should 99% have you covered. In the unlikely event estrogen sides appear, just reduce your trest dosage. Even 25mg a day of dermatrest would be better than dermacrine. Do it, trust me, no reason not to, like I said you can always lower trest dosage. MA research would be a great place to get your aromatase inhibitors.

Ok ok, I'll think about it.
I know epistane is really dry and you can have high estrogen in pct, not during cycle correct? Dermatrest is wet and you can have high estrogen during cycle, correct too? they both compensate each other or "wet win on dry"?

 

[Giovannuzzo]

Ma research unfortunately don't ship to Italy, I can try in all pharmacie I know and hope that one sells it without a prescription

 

[RickyBlobby]

Ok ok, I'll think about it.
I know epistane is really dry and you can have high estrogen in pct, not during cycle correct? Dermatrest is wet and you can have high estrogen during cycle, correct too? they both compensate each other or "wet win on dry"?

You are right. Epistane "should" help with the estrogen during cycle too. They go very well together, trust me. I have heard of estrogen rebound with EPI so as long as you have your AI handy you should be covered.

 

[Wobmarvel]

Ok ok, I'll think about it.
I know epistane is really dry and you can have high estrogen in pct, not during cycle correct? Dermatrest is wet and you can have high estrogen during cycle, correct too? they both compensate each other or "wet win on dry"?

Cant speak for trest but I'm using dermacrine on cycle at the moment and it's a million times better than androtest. I don't think it's helping with gains but diffinitely helps mitigate sides. Androtest did nothing for me but I possibly didn't run it high enough. Some say you need 6 pills per day.

 

[Giovannuzzo]

You are right. Epistane "should" help with the estrogen during cycle too. They go very well together, trust me. I have heard of estrogen rebound with EPI so as long as you have your AI handy you should be covered.

Okok, thank you very much for the advice

 

[Giovannuzzo]

Cant speak for trest but I'm using dermacrine on cycle at the moment and it's a million times better than androtest. I don't think it's helping with gains but diffinitely helps mitigate sides. Androtest did nothing for me but I possibly didn't run it high enough. Some say you need 6 pills per day.

thanks for the testimony. I also read that to get results you have to use 6 capsules. Too expensive for me

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Thank you for the answer, and dermacrine? It's the same or better?

I’m not a big fan of dermacrine, so I’d say 4 andro is definitely better

 

[Giovannuzzo]

I’m not a big fan of dermacrine, so I’d say 4 andro is definitely better

I will have to decide whether to use dermatrest or 4 andro.
Do you think dermatrest is good to mitigate the "low E of epistane"?

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I will have to decide whether to use dermatrest or 4 andro.
Do you think dermatrest is good to mitigate the "low E of epistane"?

Either will work. Trest is a bit more advanced, so I’m not sure it would be necessary for your second cycle.

 

[Kratom267]

For what its worth, the whole idea of "that's too strong for your second cycle" etc is purely broscience. Your body doesn't adjust to steroid use, there is no "easing in." So if you decide that Trest is best suited for your needs and goals then go for it. Just have to weigh the pros and cons of each compound, they will have the same side effects whether its your first cycle or fourth cycle...

 

[AnabolicGuru]

For what its worth, the whole idea of "that's too strong for your second cycle" etc is purely broscience. Your body doesn't adjust to steroid use, there is no "easing in." So if you decide that Trest is best suited for your needs and goals then go for it. Just have to weigh the pros and cons of each compound, they will have the same side effects whether its your first cycle or fourth cycle...

I’m not saying that it’s too strong, I’m saying that the side effects may be harder to mitigate as a beginner

 

[Giovannuzzo]

Wich side effect have dermatrest despite 4 andro? I have to add something if I use dermatrest?

 

[RickyBlobby]

Just have an AI handy for trest. If for some strange reason the AI isn’t enough just lower your trest dosage until you hit the sweet spot. You don’t have to have 5 cycles under your belt to figure that out. And if you can afford it, get some raloxifene and run it to to be ultra safe and keep from getting completely shut down.

Do you wanna love life during your cycle, or just get through it?

 

[Whisky]

I’m not saying that it’s too strong, I’m saying that the side effects may be harder to mitigate as a beginner

Exactly this. Trest is amazingly good but it can give high estro gyno issues that will need you to be confident in dialling in an ai.

Its alsk not going to give you a cut look on cycle - your abs will probably disappear on cycle due to water retention. Its a great fat burner but just bs prepared to wait until pct to see that (was noting your aim is to cut)

Great compound, just want you to be aware of all this before you start it

 

[Giovannuzzo]

Okok thank, I think will use 4 andro, because I want some help me to get dry with havoc

 

[Giovannuzzo]

Sup3r 4 is good?

 

[delsolrob]

#1 epistane does nothing to manage estrogen on cycle. it's 5a reduced, but cannot convert to DHT...there is no mechanism for it to "manage" estrogen.

#2 rickybobby - I get it, you love trest! But, I see you pushing it on beginners for basic cycles over and over...trest is not a beginners compound! OP, your friend is right, don't use trest...it can come with long term implications and it will make a simple epistane run extremely more complicated than it needs to be.

#3 I would go with dermacrine. I've logged epi and dermacrine a few times in the last 10 years on this board, always been happy. 4-andro would be a great option too, but would be pretty pricy.

 

[RickyBlobby]

I was a beginner when I did it. And I was fine. People are obviously doing too much if they can’t cintrol estrogen. It’s literally the best compound ever. MOST who have used it responsible would agree.

If you can’t manage sides with an AI lower your dose. It’s that easy.

How many trest cycles have you ran delsolrob?

 

[delsolrob]

I was a beginner when I did it. And I was fine. People are obviously doing too much if they can’t cintrol estrogen. It’s literally the best compound ever. MOST who have used it responsible would agree.

If you can’t manage sides with an AI lower your dose. It’s that easy.

How many trest cycles have you ran delsolrob?

and there are people who ran sd for their first cycle, doesn't mean it's advised...sure, many had amazing results. but, I'd still caution them when telling everyone, including inexperienced users that it's king. Especially users who are asking about more mild compounds...

I've been active on this board for 10 years, I'm not new to any of this. I've ran trest twice (td with combined with oral) and had to manage issues with both estrogen and prolactin. To me, the juice may not be worth the squeeze. (pun intended)

additionally, I believe there are potentially long term concerns with fertility

 

[IconicForm]

I'd have to concur, Dermacrine is an ideal candidate for a run of epi!

Yes, I'm biased...but, this is why we brought dermacrine back

 

[Matthersby]

I just want to weigh in on the Trest discussion a couple posts prior. I would have to agree with both of you to an extent. Here’s my thoughts, discard them if you like:
- Ive ran Trest 6 times, and cruised on it from August to December 2016.
- It is absolutely not for beginners, for the simple fact that the estro sides are so erratic, complicated, and persistent, one would need labs every few weeks to tackle them or at least have access to a VARIETY of ancillaries, and have a strong working knowledge of dosing protocols for each, as well as the insight to recognize both low and high estrogen and prolactin.
- In my opinion, although maybe science doesn’t necessarily back me completely, running a DHT alongside it resolves the majority of estro sides perhaps even better than a super aggressive combo of Letro/Nolvadex/Prami and at alarmingly high doses.
- When I ran it with a TRT dose of test or lower, sides were much less pronounced. The higher I ran test, the worse the Trest sides were.
- I’d consider myself a highly experienced user of Trest, and while it’s only recently become widely available, people are more often than not, washing their hands of it. This is alarming because it’s just an incredible drug, if used with responsibility and with a lot of caution. I would agree that lowering the dose should usually work, however this drug hangs on to so many other factors and while I should need to increase my dosage after almost 12 months of use in the last 2 years, I’ve actually found I’ve had to lower it to 25mg/day. Every time I think I’ve got things dialed in with it and know what to expect, I find that I’m wrong. This is not true of Dbol or Winnie, NPP or Mast, or countless other drugs. It’s a fickle bytch

 

[Matthersby]

One thing I would add. I’d never touch it in a million years if I didn’t have a TrT dose to go back to. It will shut you down harder than anything I’ve come across, and for longer than most would think possible too.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I was a beginner when I did it. And I was fine. People are obviously doing too much if they can’t cintrol estrogen. It’s literally the best compound ever. MOST who have used it responsible would agree.

If you can’t manage sides with an AI lower your dose. It’s that easy.

How many trest cycles have you ran delsolrob?

Some people have more sensitive estrogen receptors and might have a harder time controlling gyno. A lot of beginners also don’t have as good of sources for aromatize inhibitors and could end up relying on a bunk aromatize inhibitor.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

One thing I would add. I’d never touch it in a million years if I didn’t have a TrT dose to go back to. It will shut you down harder than anything I’ve come across, and for longer than most would think possible too.

Epistane being “mild” is misleading, I agree. Last time I ran it the lethargy kicked my ass. The first time I ran it my libido went byebye pretty quickly.

 

[IconicForm]

Epistane being “mild” is misleading, I agree. Last time I ran it the lethargy kicked my ass. The first time I ran it my libido went byebye pretty quickly.

I believe he was referencing trest, not epistane

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I believe he was referencing trest, not epistane

Woops, I’m dumb haha

 

[Giovannuzzo]

Ok, thank you all for the advices. This evening I will do the order, recapitulating: 2 bottle of havoc, 1 ar1macare pro, 1 dermacrine. Sup3r pct I already have it at home. The past question, on pred nut the haven't dermacrine, but on m-u-s-c-l-e l-a-b they have all and have a good discount on havoc. The second site is good?

 

[Giovannuzzo]

The last question*

 

[IconicForm]

The last question*

pred does not have dermacrine yet, but power myself does...it's currently OOS, but they received more yesterday and should update inventory shortly.

 

[Giovannuzzo]

*********** haven't havoc unfortunately

 

[Giovannuzzo]

mod edit: gonna get banned

 

[RickyBlobby]

Screw it no more recommending trest I guess.

 

[Giovannuzzo]

Anyone can help me for the retailer? The 2nd (ML.de) is good?

 

[Matthersby]

For Epistane? Just google Epistane and buy it wherever has it. It’s the cheapest drug ever and enough was made to last 10 years post-ban. no one is faking it or selling you sweetener...

 

[AnabolicGuru]

For Epistane? Just google Epistane and buy it wherever has it. It’s the cheapest drug ever and enough was made to last 10 years post-ban. no one is faking it or selling you sweetener...

There’s a lot of fakes out there, especially havoc

 

[delsolrob]

There’s a lot of fakes out there, especially havoc

I believe the license for Havoc is now held by a company in the UK

 

[Giovannuzzo]

I'll buy on pred nut, at least I'm sure it's not fake

 

[Giovannuzzo]

Whyyy this????!? I've bought 3 rpn havoc(90cps) and they send me this ****

 

[Giovannuzzo]

this is even different from the other 3, without the plastic above and already expired!

 

[Whisky]

this is even different from the other 3, without the plastic above and already expired!View attachment 164343View attachment 164344

This is why I don’t mind paying the extra to that company we are no longer allowed to mention. Peace of mind it’s legit.

That said I’ve never seen and suggestion that German pharma isn’t by the way

 

[Giovannuzzo]

This is why I don’t mind paying the extra to that company we are no longer allowed to mention. Peace of mind it’s legit.

That said I’ve never seen and suggestion that German pharma isn’t by the way

I'm not sure I understand, is it legit then?
I wanted to buy from a reliable site that I can not name, but they had finished it, a friend suggested this site.

 

[Whisky]

I'm not sure I understand, is it legit then?
I wanted to buy from a reliable site that I can not name, but they had finished it, a friend suggested this site.

As far as I know epistane under the name havoc is produced by rpn exclusively for the site we can’t name anymore.

On that basis if you want genuine havoc you’d be best buying from them.

However, as far as I know German pharma is a legit site and therefore anything you get from them is probably fine.

Open it and smell it - epistane has a strong sulphurous smell