NPP sides vs Deca...

[spirall08]

True that NPP is much easier on the side effects than deca? I'm pretty prone to most sides - gyno/hair loss/lethargy, but I've only ever run Test/Sust/EQ and wanted to give something else a shot.

For those who ran one or both, what do you think? Notice any differences?


Thinking of:
Sust - 200mg 3x/wk
NPP - 100mg 3x/wk
Tbol finisher.
Asin 12.5 eod
Prami or caber eod
hcg 250iu 2x/wk throughout.

 

[Chados]

Not sure it's easier but it seems to cause less bloat on people and mostly users claim they get a bit cleaner results. I would guess it's stronger since short esters tend to release a bit more per 100mg. Then again you can add a tiny bit more deca and get the same amount, short esters are normally more expensive too so if this little amount would bother you, it shouldn't be a problem with money.


Example test E 100mg might release 80 mg while prop gives you 90. Don't know the exact numbers but it's not much.

 

[Outofbody]

OP - you are correct sir, and it seems to me you've done your homework. Nice setup you've got planned out. Since NPP is not very androgenic, you shouldn't have to worry about hair loss either. Wouldn't hurt to use some nizoral 2% if concerned though.

 

[Chados]

OP - you are correct sir, and it seems to me you've done your homework. Nice setup you've got planned out. Since NPP is not very androgenic, you shouldn't have to worry about hair loss either. Wouldn't hurt to use some nizoral 2% if concerned though.

While hairloss isn't that much of a concern with deca or npp I can't imagine the androgenic rating actually being low. It's one of the best bulkers out there and these ratios are false. They are made on rat studies and not only that but they don't really tell us how much of this we get in to our bodies. Example anavar has a higher androgenic and anabolic rating than anadrol? Absolutely not on humans. Androgenic is what packs on size.

 

[Outofbody]

While hairloss isn't that much of a concern with deca or npp I can't imagine the androgenic rating actually being low. It's one of the best bulkers out there and these ratios are false. They are made on rat studies and not only that but they don't really tell us how much of this we get in to our bodies. Example anavar has a higher androgenic and anabolic rating than anadrol? Absolutely not on humans. Androgenic is what packs on size.

NPP is highly anabolic in comparison to it's androgenic rating:
Androgenic/Anabolic ratio: 37:125

It is very friendly on the hairline/acne

 

[Chados]

NPP is highly anabolic in comparison to it's androgenic rating:
Androgenic/Anabolic ratio: 37:125

It is very friendly on the hairline/acne

Again these charts are so misleading. You take halotestin that doesn't add any size at all and according to these charts it's the most anabolic and androgenic out there. Even if the ratios are true it doesnt tell us how they bind to receptors in humans.

I'm not an expert on this and if anyone has any resonable answer to exactly how these ratings are measured id be interested to hear.

https://www.steroid.com/anabolic-Androgenic-Steroids.php

Remove the (s) on http.

 

[Outofbody]

They can be misleading, but it's well known that NPP lacks androgenic side effects, and is easy on bloat (compared to deca). I think that's what the OP was mainly concerned about.

 

[Chados]

They can be misleading, but it's well known that NPP lacks androgenic side effects, and is easy on bloat (compared to deca). I think that's what the OP was mainly concerned about.

What you said about side effects makes a lot of sense. From my understanding they don't all give you the sides while they give you the size and vice versa.

 

[spirall08]

Not sure it's easier but it seems to cause less bloat on people and mostly users claim they get a bit cleaner results. I would guess it's stronger since short esters tend to release a bit more per 100mg. Then again you can add a tiny bit more deca and get the same amount, short esters are normally more expensive too so if this little amount would bother you, it shouldn't be a problem with money.


Example test E 100mg might release 80 mg while prop gives you 90. Don't know the exact numbers but it's not much.

OP - you are correct sir, and it seems to me you've done your homework. Nice setup you've got planned out. Since NPP is not very androgenic, you shouldn't have to worry about hair loss either. Wouldn't hurt to use some nizoral 2% if concerned though.

Thanks guys appreciate it.

One more thing... When do you stop pinning the NPP? I know with Sust you stop 3 weeks prior to PCT to allow it to clear. Deca can be 4 weeks prior. What about NPP?

 

[Outofbody]

I'm a bad one to ask. I'm in cruise on test 4 life mode hehe... no PCT's for me.

 

[Chados]

Thanks guys appreciate it.

One more thing... When do you stop pinning the NPP? I know with Sust you stop 3 weeks prior to PCT to allow it to clear. Deca can be 4 weeks prior. What about NPP?

Isn't sust about 17 days or am I forgetting something?

 

[pureburl]

Isn't sust about 17 days or am I forgetting something?

Guess it depends if you go by the 2 or 3 week rule to let long ester test clear. I do 2 weeks but lately I've been hearing it might be more like 3

 

[Chados]

Guess it depends if you go by the 2 or 3 week rule to let long ester test clear. I do 2 weeks but lately I've been hearing it might be more like 3

Yeah normally it's always been 2 weeks. Sustanon is tricky since it has 3 esters. I just remember 17 for some reason , not that I think one or two days matters. Same with enthanate, 2 weeks but some say 10 days. It's probably smart to wait at least 2 weeks since it seems to be working for most people.

 

[Nac]

NPP is great, OP. Really good compound. I havent run it at anything less than 500mg so cant comment on how youll find it at 300mg, though.

 

[Outofbody]

I'm actually putting together an NPP spring run myself. Probably going to run it at 600mg/week and test prop at about 300mg/week, but I'm not very new to cycling and have run tren and trest a number of times. Might throw some mast in there too.

 

[Chados]

I'm actually putting together an NPP spring run myself. Probably going to run it at 600mg/week and test prop at about 300mg/week, but I'm not very new to cycles and have run tren and trest a number of times. Might throw some mast in there too.

Mast is such a good compound to add and you don't get any annoying sides like joint problems during cycle as with winstrol. Deca might help with this but probably not completely.

 

[Outofbody]

Mast is such a good compound to add and you don't get any annoying sides like joint problems during cycle as with winstrol. Deca might help with this but probably not completely.

Yeah I've always stayed away from winny because of this. I had wanted to save the mast to use in another trest ace run down the road, but we'll see. Might use it this time too.

 

[Nac]

I'm actually putting together an NPP spring run myself. Probably going to run it at 600mg/week and test prop at about 300mg/week, but I'm not very new to cycling and have run tren and trest a number of times. Might throw some mast in there too.

Ive gone off orals to the point where Id rather frontload stuff like EQ, and even NPP.

Whats your typical cruise consist of?

 

[Outofbody]

Ive gone off orals to the point where Id rather frontload stuff like EQ, and even NPP.

Whats your typical cruise consist of?

I've also sworn off orals now that they constantly cause me insane heartburn and completely destroy my appetite. I'm on a TRT dose most of the time, on 125mg/week but when cruising between blasts to keep gains up (which I'll do if I'm having a good run in the gym, no injuries, etc) then I cruise at about 250-400mg test per week. All depends. Sometimes I'll cruise on 500mg/week, so long as I am eating very clean/balanced and keep health markers in check.

I once cruised on a TRT dose of test and about 300mg/EQ for almost a year when I was coming out of a surgery for my shoulder, but I had to give blood a few times.

 

[Nac]

I've also sworn off orals now that they constantly cause me insane heartburn and completely destroy my appetite. I'm on a TRT dose most of the time, on 125mg/week but when cruising between blasts to keep gains up (which I'll do if I'm having a good run in the gym, no injuries, etc) then I cruise at about 250-400mg test per week. All depends. Sometimes I'll cruise on 500mg/week, so long as I am eating very clean/balanced and keep health markers in check.

I once cruised on a TRT dose of test and about 300mg/EQ for almost a year when I was coming out of a surgery for my shoulder, but I had to give blood a few times.

Interdasting. You ever run trest ace with NPP? Gonna pair them as part of my next blast.

 

[Outofbody]

Interdasting. You ever run trest ace with NPP? Gonna pair them as part of my next blast.

Never, but I really want to try pairing tren/trest ace/mast sometime!! I almost ran this almost 2 yrs ago but got injured right before the run. I definitely want to be feeling great before attempting this, and will need everything I can muster up for the scalp lol

 

[Nac]

Never, but I really want to try pairing tren/trest ace/mast sometime!! I almost ran this almost 2 yrs ago but got injured right before the run. I definitely want to be feeling great before attempting this, and will need everything I can muster up for the scalp lol

I think for me the doses/ratios of each compound would determine my goal (or rather, my body comp goal would determine the dose ratios).

I guess for example, tren300/mast400/trest200 would be a lean bulk. Id prolly up the tren/mast and lower the trest for a cut.

What were you considering? Aside from lots of pinning for 6 or so weeks lol

 

[Outofbody]

I was thinking 300/300/300 and lean bulk / recomp. Originally was thinking 350 all around. I pretty much always recomp and never do a classic all out cut. I'd definitely use prami/raloxifene (instead of nolva). And some lithium orotate for mood. Probably would run it for more like 8 weeks and would have to force myself off of it. I'm not one to get sides from tren and normally have to force myself off. I once took trest ace for almost 12 weeks too (of daily pinning) and ran from 350mg/week to 500mg/week, not sure why I'm admitting that though lol.. that's way too long for trest.

 

[Nac]

I know what you mean. I feel my best just on trest, absolutely golden all round. Closest I get on other stuff is a tren/mast/EQ combo. But despite feeling mint, my lipids are pretty trash. Rhr is also getting too high.

 

[Outofbody]

I feel like we’ve been hijacking this thread, but since we’re at it, do you think I should run that NPP/test prop cycle with mast or no mast? I was thinking of saving a bit of money this time and not using it, plus I’m running NPP pretty high anyhow. But I’m up in the air about it.

 

[Nac]

I dunno man, as a general rule I like to keep my weekly totals to less than a gram; if that kind of arbitrary limitation dosn't bother you then all good.

In saying that, Id prefer to run mast 500+, and really even then as something to compliment tren.

IMO, in your case (if it were me), it would come down to my cycle/blast goals, length of cycle/blast, and what I was planning for after the blast. Hell, in one scenario Id be tempted to blast for 8 or so weeks with test/npp eating surplus, then dropping npp and kcals to new maintanence and adding 3-400mg mast to te tezt for a nice recomp period...but this would also depend on what kind of gear/amounts I was using prior to hopping on npp.

 

[Chados]

I feel like we’ve been hijacking this thread, but since we’re at it, do you think I should run that NPP/test prop cycle with mast or no mast? I was thinking of saving a bit of money this time and not using it, plus I’m running NPP pretty high anyhow. But I’m up in the air about it.

If you're lean before cycle yes. If you can't see abs no. Thats kinda where i draw the limit.

 

[Nac]

Also some good labs are doing IM var. I think var is possibly more versatile than mast.

 

[Outofbody]

Thanks guys. That’s the first I’ve heard of IM var. Interesting. I’ve never tried var but I’d def be down to try it IM.

 

[spirall08]

Yeah normally it's always been 2 weeks. Sustanon is tricky since it has 3 esters. I just remember 17 for some reason , not that I think one or two days matters. Same with enthanate, 2 weeks but some say 10 days. It's probably smart to wait at least 2 weeks since it seems to be working for most people.

NPP is great, OP. Really good compound. I havent run it at anything less than 500mg so cant comment on how youll find it at 300mg, though.

Thanks yea I can play around with the dose. I've read 400 is good for a 1st timer. Maybe start at 300/wk and if I'm feeling ok, bump to 400.

So if I'm stopping Sust 17-21 days before PCT, anyone have input on when to stop the NPP?

 

[Cgkone]

True that NPP is much easier on the side effects than deca? I'm pretty prone to most sides - gyno/hair loss/lethargy, but I've only ever run Test/Sust/EQ and wanted to give something else a shot.

For those who ran one or both, what do you think? Notice any differences?


Thinking of:
Sust - 200mg 3x/wk
NPP - 100mg 3x/wk
Tbol finisher.
Asin 12.5 eod
Prami or caber eod
hcg 250iu 2x/wk throughout.

If your like me and get tired from high test maybe keep the sust to just 300mg per week..

 

[Cgkone]

Peole add nandrolone to test cycles because
It converts less to estro than test
And its less androgenic
So 400 mg test with 400 mg NPP
Smokes 800 mg test.
800 mg test would have my joints achy
With NPP joints are well lubed

 

[YamahaC76]

Peole add nandrolone to test cycles because
It converts less to estro than test
And its less androgenic
So 400 mg test with 400 mg NPP
Smokes 800 mg test.
800 mg test would have my joints achy
With NPP joints are well lubed

500 mg Test and 300 mg NPP would also work?

 

[Cgkone]

500 mg Test and 300 mg NPP would also work?

Same idea yup.
It would be superior to 800 mg of just test.
Is do lower test but some people really like test so either way

 

[spirall08]

Peole add nandrolone to test cycles because
It converts less to estro than test
And its less androgenic
So 400 mg test with 400 mg NPP
Smokes 800 mg test.
800 mg test would have my joints achy
With NPP joints are well lubed

500 mg Test and 300 mg NPP would also work?

Same idea yup.
It would be superior to 800 mg of just test.
Is do lower test but some people really like test so either way

Interesting and good to know. I always thought with Nandrolone/Deca you wanted to keep the Test high to avoid lethargy/Deca dick cause apparently this stuff shuts you down pretty hard. Thoughts?

 

[spirall08]

Peole add nandrolone to test cycles because
It converts less to estro than test
And its less androgenic
So 400 mg test with 400 mg NPP
Smokes 800 mg test.
800 mg test would have my joints achy
With NPP joints are well lubed

500 mg Test and 300 mg NPP would also work?

Same idea yup.
It would be superior to 800 mg of just test.
Is do lower test but some people really like test so either way

Interesting and good to know. I always thought with Nandrolone/Deca you wanted to keep the Test high to avoid lethargy/Deca dick cause apparently this stuff shuts you down pretty hard. Thoughts?

 

[Bintherduntht]

Yeah normally it's always been 2 weeks. Sustanon is tricky since it has 3 esters. I just remember 17 for some reason , not that I think one or two days matters. Same with enthanate, 2 weeks but some say 10 days. It's probably smart to wait at least 2 weeks since it seems to be working for most people.

The longest ester in sustanon is test decanate which has a 15 day half life I believe?

 

[Bintherduntht]

Interesting and good to know. I always thought with Nandrolone/Deca you wanted to keep the Test high to avoid lethargy/Deca dick cause apparently this stuff shuts you down pretty hard. Thoughts?

Caber will help the lethargy deca dik. If you can't get that yes test should keep your libido/energy up

 

[Bintherduntht]

True that NPP is much easier on the side effects than deca? I'm pretty prone to most sides - gyno/hair loss/lethargy, but I've only ever run Test/Sust/EQ and wanted to give something else a shot.

For those who ran one or both, what do you think? Notice any differences?


Thinking of:
Sust - 200mg 3x/wk
NPP - 100mg 3x/wk
Tbol finisher.
Asin 12.5 eod
Prami or caber eod
hcg 250iu 2x/wk throughout.

Sides? Idk... Nandrolone is nandrolone right?

Just how test e, c, sust is all the same. Test.

So the difference would be the ester right? Why would an ester change the steroid?

 

[Chados]

The longest ester in sustanon is test decanate which has a 15 day half life I believe?

Not quite sure but sounds resonable

 

[Outofbody]

I dunno man, as a general rule I like to keep my weekly totals to less than a gram; if that kind of arbitrary limitation dosn't bother you then all good.

I was just skimming the thread again and this post made me remember the only time I ran over 1G total per week... was about 8-900mg/test cyp with 500mg/deca per week during the only all out bulk I've ever done, blew up like whoa and felt amazing, but had major night sweats. For some reason, when running test on the lower end while running 19-nors, sweats aren't really a problem. Strange how that works, never knew why.