Ostarine cycle advice

[SpicedCider]

I will be running a cycle of ostarine soon (my first ever SARMs cycle), and I was just wondering if you guys would mind giving me a bit of advice in regards to how I should run the cycle. I have a 60 ct. bottle of ostarine, with 20 mg in each cap. Would it make the most sense to just run an 8-week cycle of 20 mg/day? Or would it be better to just order another bottle so I can up the dose beyond 20 mg/day at some point?

Also, I wasn't sure how necessary it would be to run a PCT afterwards if I do end up just running an 8-week cycle of 20 mg/day. Is that a long enough cycle (and a high-enough dose) to cause significant suppression?

One other concern I have is gyno; I know that ostarine doesn't aromatize, but nevertheless, I've come across several reports of guys apparently developing gyno from taking ostarine. If I start to notice the development of gyno at some point, should I just stop taking the ostarine? If I stop taking it early enough, can I prevent the development of actual breast tissue, or would even the slightest amount of gyno be permanent?

Any advice you guys can provide would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[carsonkeelor]

20mg a day is a fair dose but it should be run for 16 weeks. Get another bottle and run it longer. Pct will depend person to person but it should be planned for. Nolvadex at 20/20/10/10 should suffice. Suppression is very probable on ostarine, and I get suppressed when i run it after around 6 ish weeks. If you experience gyno symptoms while on cycle, start taking 10mg of nolvadex ED. Then pct when the cycle is over as normal. If caught early enough (Ex. Puffiness/Tenderness/Itchiness then lumps can be prevented. Good luck

 

[SpicedCider]

20mg a day is a fair dose but it should be run for 16 weeks. Get another bottle and run it longer. Pct will depend person to person but it should be planned for. Nolvadex at 20/20/10/10 should suffice. Suppression is very probable on ostarine, and I get suppressed when i run it after around 6 ish weeks. If you experience gyno symptoms while on cycle, start taking 10mg of nolvadex ED. Then pct when the cycle is over as normal. If caught early enough (Ex. Puffiness/Tenderness/Itchiness then lumps can be prevented. Good luck

Appreciate the advice. So you don't think Aromasin (exemestane) would be a better option than Nolvadex to control gyno flare-ups?

 

[carsonkeelor]

Well, a lot of people have come out and said that any AI doesn’t work when it comes to gyno symptoms from ostarine, and nolvadex can reverse gyno, so yes i think nolvadex would be more beneficial. Think of it this way: since osta doesn’t aromatize, an AI wouldn’t prevent any aromatization. Therefore, if you do experience gyno sides, an AI wouldn’t stop anything. Nolvadex however reverses gyno sides and would be very beneficial.

 

[SpicedCider]

By the way -- I just took my first ostarine dose (20 mg) earlier yesterday evening and headed to the gym afterwards to work abs, legs (very lightly since I have a meniscus tear), and do cardio. During my cardio session (elliptical), I couldn't help but notice a subtle but smooth feeling of well-being come over me. Also, I typically "max out" at level 17 on the ellipitcal, and I'm usually only able to work-out on level 17 for maybe 8-9 minutes before I feel exhausted and have to cut it down to level 16. However, during tonight's workout, level 17 felt easier than it ever has before (like it might as well have been level 15), and I was able to do over 20 minutes straight through on it. I actually ended up finishing my cardio workout on level 17 and never went back to level 16. The whole experience was almost scary to me, because I'm so used to feeling exhausted after spending just 8-9 minutes on level 17 and I was honestly afraid of having a heart attack or something.

Can ostarine really kick-in this early, or was it more than likely just a placebo effect?

 

[carsonkeelor]

By the way -- I just took my first ostarine dose (20 mg) earlier yesterday evening and headed to the gym afterwards to work abs, legs (very lightly since I have a meniscus tear), and do cardio. During my cardio session (elliptical), I couldn't help but notice a subtle but smooth feeling of well-being come over me. Also, I typically "max out" at level 17 on the ellipitcal, and I'm usually only able to work-out on level 17 for maybe 8-9 minutes before I feel exhausted and have to cut it down to level 16. However, during tonight's workout, level 17 felt easier than it ever has before (like it might as well have been level 15), and I was able to do over 20 minutes straight through on it. I actually ended up finishing my cardio workout on level 17 and never went back to level 16. The whole experience was almost scary to me, because I'm so used to feeling exhausted after spending just 8-9 minutes on level 17 and I was honestly afraid of having a heart attack or something.

Can ostarine really kick-in this early, or was it more than likely just a placebo effect?

More than likely just placebo, or just you getting better at cardio haha.

 

[SpicedCider]

Well, a lot of people have come out and said that any AI doesn’t work when it comes to gyno symptoms from ostarine, and nolvadex can reverse gyno, so yes i think nolvadex would be more beneficial. Think of it this way: since osta doesn’t aromatize, an AI wouldn’t prevent any aromatization. Therefore, if you do experience gyno sides, an AI wouldn’t stop anything. Nolvadex however reverses gyno sides and would be very beneficial.

So actually, regardless of *how* ostarine actually causes gyno (regardless if it is by binding directly to estrogen receptors, aromatizing - which it apparently doesn't do, etc.), Nolvadex would take care of the issue since it prevents estrogen (or anything else) from binding to estrogen receptors in the first place, right? In other words, as long as the estrogen receptors themselves are blocked, gyno simply can't occur, right? Just want to make sure my understanding is correct here.

Thanks again

 

[Peanutbutterj]

Well, a lot of people have come out and said that any AI doesn’t work when it comes to gyno symptoms from ostarine, and nolvadex can reverse gyno, so yes i think nolvadex would be more beneficial. Think of it this way: since osta doesn’t aromatize, an AI wouldn’t prevent any aromatization. Therefore, if you do experience gyno sides, an AI wouldn’t stop anything. Nolvadex however reverses gyno sides and would be very beneficial.

I was under the impression that with Ostarine binding with androgen receptors that more testosterone would be freed up to aromatize over to estrogen.

 

[Glycomann]

I was under the impression that with Ostarine binding with androgen receptors that more testosterone would be freed up to aromatize over to estrogen.

From what I've read, Ostarine frees up steroids from steroid hormone binding globulin so could be liberating testosterone from SHGB to be aromatized or liberating more estrogen for more estrogenic activities. I remember having no problems with ostarine when nothing else in the mix but estrogenic problems when on just a TRT dose of test. No such symptoms when just on my TRT.

 

[Peanutbutterj]

From what I've read, Ostarine frees up steroids from steroid hormone binding globulin so could be liberating testosterone from SHGB to be aromatized or liberating more estrogen for more estrogenic activities. I remember having no problems with ostarine when nothing else in the mix but estrogenic problems when on just a TRT dose of test. No such symptoms when just on my TRT.

That makes sense.

 

[uprightrows]

I have used ostarine for years (cycling, not continuously) , 20mg is fine and there is no real reason to go above that for recomp or cutting. 12-16 weeks is probably ideal, but 8-10 will still get you results if you are cutting hard and your diet is on point. Yes, you should run a PCT with a SERM if you are using 20mg/day for =/>8 weeks. I personally use clomid at 25mg for 4 weeks, but nolva is fine too if you prefer that or it's more available. I have had bloods done for most of my cycles and test is always significantly lowered along with LH and FSH (lowered but not zero) every time I use real ostarine. I have had elevated e2 levels from it a few times, and using an AI does lower it, only had to do that once. I know several people who have also had elevated e2 from it with blood work, none of them developed actual gyno it was always puffiness or sensitivity and an AI corrected the problem for all of them. I would have one on hand just to be safe, and if you can afford it, get blood work done.

Also, is everyone starting an ostarine cycle right now? So many posts about this lately

 

[carsonkeelor]

I was under the impression that with Ostarine binding with androgen receptors that more testosterone would be freed up to aromatize over to estrogen.

I see what you’re getting at here, but ostarine actually suppresses your natural testosterone production because your body thinks it’s being supplemented with external testosterone (ostarine in reality). Therefore, less testosterone in your body.

 

[carsonkeelor]

So actually, regardless of *how* ostarine actually causes gyno (regardless if it is by binding directly to estrogen receptors, aromatizing - which it apparently doesn't do, etc.), Nolvadex would take care of the issue since it prevents estrogen (or anything else) from binding to estrogen receptors in the first place, right? In other words, as long as the estrogen receptors themselves are blocked, gyno simply can't occur, right? Just want to make sure my understanding is correct here.

Thanks again

Nolva would secure you.

 

[SpicedCider]

I have used ostarine for years (cycling, not continuously) , 20mg is fine and there is no real reason to go above that for recomp or cutting. 12-16 weeks is probably ideal, but 8-10 will still get you results if you are cutting hard and your diet is on point. Yes, you should run a PCT with a SERM if you are using 20mg/day for =/>8 weeks. I personally use clomid at 25mg for 4 weeks, but nolva is fine too if you prefer that or it's more available. I have had bloods done for most of my cycles and test is always significantly lowered along with LH and FSH (lowered but not zero) every time I use real ostarine. I have had elevated e2 levels from it a few times, and using an AI does lower it, only had to do that once. I know several people who have also had elevated e2 from it with blood work, none of them developed actual gyno it was always puffiness or sensitivity and an AI corrected the problem for all of them. I would have one on hand just to be safe, and if you can afford it, get blood work done.

Also, is everyone starting an ostarine cycle right now? So many posts about this lately

I know that ostarine is typically taken as a cutting/recomp agent, but I would actually like to gain as much muscle as possible on my cycle (not actually cutting/recomping). Do you know how effective it is as a general agent for lean bulking? I know ostarine probably wasn't the best choice for my goals, but I also have several joint-related issues (shoulder labrum tear, rotator cuff tendinitis, healed meniscus tear that still gives me some issues), so I was also curious to try ostarine even if just to assess its tendon injury-healing effects.

 

[carsonkeelor]

I have personal experience with this as I have been suffering, up until this past december since july of 2016 (had surgery) with a separated AC joint and a torn labrum as well. 10-15mg of ostarine is all it takes for healing to occur, and i had great success with it. Ostarine allowed me for over a year to lift 90% pain free, and i’m still taking it to this day to heal my surgery faster. As far as muscle mass, don’t expect too much. 3-5 pounds muscle tissue.

 

[SpicedCider]

I have personal experience with this as I have been suffering, up until this past december since july of 2016 (had surgery) with a separated AC joint and a torn labrum as well. 10-15mg of ostarine is all it takes for healing to occur, and i had great success with it. Ostarine allowed me for over a year to lift 90% pain free, and i’m still taking it to this day to heal my surgery faster. As far as muscle mass, don’t expect too much. 3-5 pounds muscle tissue.

Glad to hear that Ostarine helped you out with your joint issues. Were you taking Ostarine before your surgery, or only after you had surgery?

Also, I understand that the only way to really "fix" a labrum tear is via surgery, but at this point, even if I can get only a little relief from Ostarine, I'll be happy with that. I also think that a lot of my pain symptoms during lifting are due to rotator cuff tendinitis moreso than the labrum tear, and from what I've heard, Ostarine can be pretty effective at treating tendon-related injuries.

 

[carsonkeelor]

Glad to hear that Ostarine helped you out with your joint issues. Were you taking Ostarine before your surgery, or only after you had surgery?

Also, I understand that the only way to really "fix" a labrum tear is via surgery, but at this point, even if I can get only a little relief from Ostarine, I'll be happy with that. I also think that a lot of my pain symptoms during lifting are due to rotator cuff tendinitis moreso than the labrum tear, and from what I've heard, Ostarine can be pretty effective at treating tendon-related injuries.

I took it for a year prior to my surgery and it did wonders for me. I also took it post surgery and my PT said I improved faster than he’s ever seen, and I’m back in the gym now just three months post-surgery.

 

[SpicedCider]

I took it for a year prior to my surgery and it did wonders for me. I also took it post surgery and my PT said I improved faster than he’s ever seen, and I’m back in the gym now just three months post-surgery.

Just curious, how long did it take for you to start noticing relief of joint pain symptoms when you were taking Ostarine prior to getting surgery?

 

[carsonkeelor]

Just curious, how long did it take for you to start noticing relief of joint pain symptoms when you were taking Ostarine prior to getting surgery?

Week or two

 

[Newth]

I know that ostarine is typically taken as a cutting/recomp agent, but I would actually like to gain as much muscle as possible on my cycle (not actually cutting/recomping). Do you know how effective it is as a general agent for lean bulking? I know ostarine probably wasn't the best choice for my goals, but I also have several joint-related issues (shoulder labrum tear, rotator cuff tendinitis, healed meniscus tear that still gives me some issues), so I was also curious to try ostarine even if just to assess its tendon injury-healing effects.

I get where your coming from with the healing side of things, consider adding 5mg of LGD 4033 to add a lil extra anabolicness then, good luck.

 

[Newth]

carsonkeelor I was under the impression the Nolva did effect LH production, in a positive way unlike estrogen though.

 

[pracata]

I have used ostarine for years (cycling, not continuously) , 20mg is fine and there is no real reason to go above that for recomp or cutting. 12-16 weeks is probably ideal, but 8-10 will still get you results if you are cutting hard and your diet is on point. Yes, you should run a PCT with a SERM if you are using 20mg/day for =/>8 weeks. I personally use clomid at 25mg for 4 weeks, but nolva is fine too if you prefer that or it's more available. I have had bloods done for most of my cycles and test is always significantly lowered along with LH and FSH (lowered but not zero) every time I use real ostarine. I have had elevated e2 levels from it a few times, and using an AI does lower it, only had to do that once. I know several people who have also had elevated e2 from it with blood work, none of them developed actual gyno it was always puffiness or sensitivity and an AI corrected the problem for all of them. I would have one on hand just to be safe, and if you can afford it, get blood work done.

Also, is everyone starting an ostarine cycle right now? So many posts about this lately

What AI did you use?

 

[Wobmarvel]

I see what you’re getting at here, but ostarine actually suppresses your natural testosterone production because your body thinks it’s being supplemented with external testosterone (ostarine in reality). Therefore, less testosterone in your body.

Can still cause aromatisation though. Let's say out of all the natural test in your body 40% gets aromatised to estrogen to maintain ballance (that figure could be way off just making an example). Now you take ostarine at 20mg per day and your natural test gets suppressed to 40% of what it was because your body thinks its getting the other 60% from the osta. Now your body aromatises 100% of your natural test because its trying to maintain the same ballance but because osta is not actual test and is fooling your body this is how I believe gyno may occur. In this case an AI would still do the job.

 

[carsonkeelor]

Can still cause aromatisation though. Let's say out of all the natural test in your body 40% gets aromatised to estrogen to maintain ballance (that figure could be way off just making an example). Now you take ostarine at 20mg per day and your natural test gets suppressed to 40% of what it was because your body thinks its getting the other 60% from the osta. Now your body aromatises 100% of your natural test because its trying to maintain the same ballance but because osta is not actual test and is fooling your body this is how I believe gyno may occur. In this case an AI would still do the job.

Very good theory I must say, but the problem I see here is that IF 40% was originally aromatized and your natural test gets suppressed to 40% (same as original aromatization) and then the entirety of natural test you have left is suppressed (100% of 40%, which is still the original 40% before any suppression) then you would have the exact same amount of estrogen in your body as you originally did. Also, ostarine can suppress you as your body things it’s testosterone, but ostarine is NOT very strong whatsoever, especially not at 20mg and the difference between normal levels of test and what your body thinks the levels are with ostarine, are not very much higher, meaning that estrogen wouldnt go up very high. I could see this problem being present if you took around 50mg per say.

 

[Wobmarvel]

Very good theory I must say, but the problem I see here is that IF 40% was originally aromatized and your natural test gets suppressed to 40% (same as original aromatization) and then the entirety of natural test you have left is suppressed (100% of 40%, which is still the original 40% before any suppression) then you would have the exact same amount of estrogen in your body as you originally did. Also, ostarine can suppress you as your body things it’s testosterone, but ostarine is NOT very strong whatsoever, especially not at 20mg and the difference between normal levels of test and what your body thinks the levels are with ostarine, are not very much higher, meaning that estrogen wouldnt go up very high. I could see this problem being present if you took around 50mg per say.

You are right. The amount of estrogen would be the same but the level of actual test would be lower so your percentage of estrogen vs actual test would in this case be 100% estrogen and 0% test. The ostarine is obviously not actual test so even though your body thinks it is because of its binding affinity it will still throw your hormones out of whack. If your natural tesyt dropped to 10% of its original level and all of that aromatized then your estrogen would be only a quarter of what it was naturally but gyno symptoms could still occur because that 10% would be 100% off the naturally occurring hormones in your body.

 

[Wobmarvel]

This is me presuming that a hormone imballance can cause gyno which may not actually be the case. I realise that simply estrogen over a certain level will cause it hence why guys taking vast amounts of anabolic steroids can get it even though their test levels are 4000% above normal and way over their estrogen levels. It's just my theory as to how certain sarms and prohormones could cause gyno issues when they are marketed as safe due to not aromatising.

 

[carsonkeelor]

You are right. The amount of estrogen would be the same but the level of actual test would be lower so your percentage of estrogen vs actual test would in this case be 100% estrogen and 0% test. The ostarine is obviously not actual test so even though your body thinks it is because of its binding affinity it will still throw your hormones out of whack. If your natural tesyt dropped to 10% of its original level and all of that aromatized then your estrogen would be only a quarter of what it was naturally but gyno symptoms could still occur because that 10% would be 100% off the naturally occurring hormones in your body.

Ostarine sure as hell doesn’t shut you down all the way to 10%. It doesn’t very much at all in my experience. No atrophy experienced. Even with my 500mg test cycle I wasn’t shut down completely. All i’m saying is the change is balance wouldn’t be very drastic.

 

[carsonkeelor]

This is me presuming that a hormone imballance can cause gyno which may not actually be the case. I realise that simply estrogen over a certain level will cause it hence why guys taking vast amounts of anabolic steroids can get it even though their test levels are 4000% above normal and way over their estrogen levels. It's just my theory as to how certain sarms and prohormones could cause gyno issues when they are marketed as safe due to not aromatising.

It’s a good theory and needs scientific evidence.