LDG 4033 or Andros-which is better muscle builder?

[JoePaul39]

Based on experience, is LGD 4033 or a properly dosed cycle of 1 andro/4 andro/Epi Andro a more effective muscle builder cycle? Also, with LGD 4033 Would Arimicare Pro by Olympus Labs be an effective enough AI to avoid any potential gyno issues?

 

[Cgkone]

Based on experience, is LGD 4033 or a properly dosed cycle of 1 andro/4 andro/Epi Andro a more effective muscle builder cycle? Also, with LGD 4033 Would Arimicare Pro by Olympus Labs be an effective enough AI to avoid any potential gyno issues?

I think the andro combo.
1 andro can be very powerful
500mg 1 andro
1000 epiandro
4 andro as needed for energy/sex/mood

 

[AdelV]

I think the andro combo.
1 andro can be very powerful
500mg 1 andro
1000 epiandro
4 andro as needed for energy/sex/mood

Andro cycle will probably cost 5x more

 

[Cgkone]

Andro cycle will probably cost 5x more

Agreed

BUT....its a better cycle. IMO

Your actually feel ON
Libido will be strong
Size and strength are going up dramatically.

The upside of LGD
One pill.

 

[HAMinTheTrap]

Not to hijack the thread, but if already on a test+var cycle which one would be a better addition to it synergistically to increase possible mass gains, lgd or 1-andro?

I know its an unconventional mix... but I have some laying around. Probably will keep it simple and save them for later, but if i were to...

 

[JoePaul39]

I think the andro combo.
1 andro can be very powerful
500mg 1 andro
1000 epiandro
4 andro as needed for energy/sex/mood

500 mg 1 andro is not too high? I think I recall you said on some of your posts you are a trainer. Do you have clients taking 500 mg? Most I have ever taken in 345.

 

[JoePaul39]

Andro cycle will probably cost 5x more

The andro cycle will probably remain legal longer than the LGD 4033. I think the FDA is targeting SARMS and predict they will shortly add those to the banned listed. One other thing the LGD 4033 has going for it is it is safer since it doesn't mess with lipid values, liver, or kidneys.

 

[JoePaul39]

Agreed

BUT....its a better cycle. IMO

Your actually feel ON
Libido will be strong
Size and strength are going up dramatically.

The upside of LGD
One pill.

I heard LGD 4033 can cause potential gyno, would Arimacare Pro by Olympus Labs be a sufficient AI to take to prevent this? It has Arimistane in it. Also with LGD 4033, does the same cycling protocol follow as with the andros (i.e. 8 weeks on 4 weeks PCT, followed by at least 12 weeks off)? On a side note, it's kinda funny because everyone wants to avoid permanent shut down so they don't have to go on TRT, but I would think those people who are on TRT and taking a sarm would have more gains than someone who isn't on TRT because they would still have testosterone (though it is being artificially infused).

 

[NoAddedHmones]

The andro cycle will probably remain legal longer than the LGD 4033. I think the FDA is targeting SARMS and predict they will shortly add those to the banned listed. One other thing the LGD 4033 has going for it is it is safer since it doesn't mess with lipid values, liver, or kidneys.

Lol LGD deffintely messes with your lipids at bodybuilder dosages.

 

[JoePaul39]

Lol LGD deffintely messes with your lipids at bodybuilder dosages.

Interesting to know. There is a lot of false information on the internet. You are an Olympus Labs rep, would Arimacare Pro by OL be a sufficient AI for LGD?

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Interesting to know. There is a lot of false information on the internet. You are an Olympus Labs rep, would Arimacare Pro by OL be a sufficient AI for LGD?

I have found lgd to give the least potential grief in terms of estro related sides (particularly the first few weeks of the cycle) compared to say enobosarm. In saying that the rapid drop in shbg can lead to these events occurring and you should have a real AI on hand.

 

[Nac]

LGD vs 1+4andro?

Well, I think the comparison is disingenuous cos youll likely want to run LGD itself with a "base", not solo. So really a more fair and accurate question is

LGD + base vs andro combo

If you stack LGD with trest, itll prolly beat an andro combo easy peasy Japanesy.

 

[irishiron300]

LGD vs 1+4andro?

Well, I think the comparison is disingenuous cos youll likely want to run LGD itself with a "base", not solo. So really a more fair and accurate question is

LGD + base vs andro combo

If you stack LGD with trest, itll prolly beat an andro combo easy peasy Japanesy.

^ this, TD Trest with LDG would be

 

[IconicForm]

We have a lot of customers stacking LGD with Dermacrine

 

[Cscott622]

I heard LGD 4033 can cause potential gyno, would Arimacare Pro by Olympus Labs be a sufficient AI to take to prevent this? It has Arimistane in it. Also with LGD 4033, does the same cycling protocol follow as with the andros (i.e. 8 weeks on 4 weeks PCT, followed by at least 12 weeks off)? On a side note, it's kinda funny because everyone wants to avoid permanent shut down so they don't have to go on TRT, but I would think those people who are on TRT and taking a sarm would have more gains than someone who isn't on TRT because they would still have testosterone (though it is being artificially infused).

I dont think arimacare pro should be your go-to for an AI. I think you could run it, ive ran it and currently am on cycle, but mostly for the prolactin/liver and cardio support

 

[dbl38]

What about LGD would cause a need for an AI? I read the study saying that it would not aromitize?

 

[Jinsun]

I heard LGD 4033 can cause potential gyno, would Arimacare Pro by Olympus Labs be a sufficient AI to take to prevent this? It has Arimistane in it. Also with LGD 4033, does the same cycling protocol follow as with the andros (i.e. 8 weeks on 4 weeks PCT, followed by at least 12 weeks off)? On a side note, it's kinda funny because everyone wants to avoid permanent shut down so they don't have to go on TRT, but I would think those people who are on TRT and taking a sarm would have more gains than someone who isn't on TRT because they would still have testosterone (though it is being artificially infused).

Arimistane is not strong enough. It can lower e2 by max 10 points. And that's being optimistic. It will most probably lower it by 5 to 8 points. Certanly not enough to have any significant impact on gyno prevention.

 

[AntM1564]

Arimistane is not strong enough. It can lower e2 by max 10 points. And that's being optimistic. It will most probably lower it by 5 to 8 points. Certanly not enough to have any significant impact on gyno prevention.

This. Arimistane will help control cortisol, but will not lower estrogen. You should always have a real AI on hand just in case of increased estrogen. Get aromasin, it is cheap and easy to find.

 

[Cgkone]

500 mg 1 andro is not too high? I think I recall you said on some of your posts you are a trainer. Do you have clients taking 500 mg? Most I have ever taken in 345.

Well a lot of people get by at the recomended dose.
The only one I push is epiandro.
Epiandro under 500mg is weak IMO.

But to answer your question when people are ready to take a drug and they are hoping to get stronger AND they are tripping off needles and legality.....
I always will choose 1 andro/epiandro/maybe 4 andro.
Maxes are going to go up.

Its a ton of more pills and as somebody mentioned a lot more expensive but its going to pile weight on the bar better than LGD.

 

[Cgkone]

LGD vs 1+4andro?

Well, I think the comparison is disingenuous cos youll likely want to run LGD itself with a "base", not solo. So really a more fair and accurate question is

LGD + base vs andro combo

If you stack LGD with trest, itll prolly beat an andro combo easy peasy Japanesy.

No fair!!
If we get to add drugs to our recommended combos I have some options.....
??

 

[JoePaul39]

Well a lot of people get by at the recomended dose.
The only one I push is epiandro.
Epiandro under 500mg is weak IMO.

But to answer your question when people are ready to take a drug and they are hoping to get stronger AND they are tripping off needles and legality.....
I always will choose 1 andro/epiandro/maybe 4 andro.
Maxes are going to go up.

Its a ton of more pills and as somebody mentioned a lot more expensive but its going to pile weight on the bar better than LGD.

You said "maxes are going to go up", so eventually your clients end up needing to up the dosages after a few cycles to see similar returns after a few cycles?

 

[Cgkone]

You said "maxes are going to go up", so eventually your clients end up needing to up the dosages after a few cycles to see similar returns after a few cycles?

I actually don't know anybody that used the andro combos over and over.
Most people opt for a cheaper more productive cycle(injectable).
But if you train correctly for strength and only run the andro combos once a year in a peaking phase they will work over and over.
When I said maxes are going up I was talking about lifts.
Anyways......
The question is easy.
The 3 andro combo is going to smoke LGD.
In my opinion in everyway.
But it costs more and you have to eat pills all day.

 

[Mike Arnold]

S23 and RAD-140= better than ANY DHEA-based "andro" product...period.

S23 and YK-11= better than ANY DHEA-based "andro" product...period.

S23 and LGD= better than any DHEA-based "andro" product...period.


Any of those cycles will provide straight up steroid-like gains--gains will be similar to a moderate test and Anavar/Winstrol cycle. No DHEA prohormone is going to do that.

In my opinion, I think ANY of those compounds, even when used ALONE, can potentially provide better results than any Andro combination. The main factor here responsible for determining results is the DOSE employed. A LOT of guys only use 5-10 mg of LGD and then compare that to 1000+ mg's of 1-Andro, 4-Andro, and Epiandro.

However, if LGD is used at a higher dose (20-30 mg/day, but preferably 20 mg and stacked with another SARM), the results will certainly trump ANY DHEA-based cycle available. The problem is that most companies only sell LGD in 300 mg bottles, so the individual can only use 10 mg/day for 30 days. NOT good enough. I guarantee that if anyone were to use, say, 20 mg/day of S23 and 20 mg/day RAD-140, LGD, or YK...the results will be VERY good. Remember, these compounds are already fully active (unlike DHEA-based Andros, in which only a small portion becomes metabolically active) and display greater muscle building potency than testosterone according to all studies. If you want to make crazy size and strength gains (I'm talking like 20-25+ lbs in 6-8 weeks, assuming the individual hasn't already run a bunch of cycles and is approaching their natural genetic limit), then add MK-677 to the mix. You will never consider an Andro cycle again, especially because all three of these compounds can be used for less than the cost of an Andro cycle.

The good news is that SOME companies sell their SARMs in 600 mg bottles while also pricing them cheaper than most companies are selling their 300 mg bottles for. This allows the individual to make TRUE steroid like gains for about $100-$150 a month ($150 if MK is added to it) for an affordable amount of money.

SARMs at the proper doses are BY FAR the most potent muscle builders on the market today--bar none.

 

[Cgkone]

S23 and RAD-140= better than ANY DHEA-based "andro" product...period.

S23 and YK-11= better than ANY DHEA-based "andro" product...period.

S23 and LGD= better than any DHEA-based "andro" product...period.


Any of those cycles will provide straight up steroid-like gains--gains will be similar to a moderate test and Anavar/Winstrol cycle. No DHEA prohormone is going to do that.

In my opinion, I think ANY of those compounds, even when used ALONE, can potentially provide better results than any Andro combination. The main factor here responsible for determining results is the DOSE employed. A LOT of guys only use 5-10 mg of LGD and then compare that to 1000+ mg's of 1-Andro, 4-Andro, and Epiandro.

However, if LGD is used at a higher dose (20-30 mg/day, but preferably 20 mg and stacked with another SARM), the results will certainly trump ANY DHEA-based cycle available. The problem is that most companies only sell LGD in 300 mg bottles, so the individual can only use 10 mg/day for 30 days. NOT good enough. I guarantee that if anyone were to use, say, 20 mg/day of S23 and 20 mg/day RAD-140, LGD, or YK...the results will be VERY good. Remember, these compounds are already fully active (unlike DHEA-based Andros, in which only a small portion becomes metabolically active) and display greater muscle building potency than testosterone according to all studies. If you want to make crazy size and strength gains (I'm talking like 20-25+ lbs in 6-8 weeks, assuming the individual hasn't already run a bunch of cycles and is approaching their natural genetic limit), then add MK-677 to the mix. You will never consider an Andro cycle again, especially because all three of these compounds can be used for less than the cost of an Andro cycle.

The good news is that SOME companies sell their SARMs in 600 mg bottles while also pricing them cheaper than most companies are selling their 300 mg bottles for. This allows the individual to make TRUE steroid like gains for about $100-$150 a month ($150 if MK is added to it) for an affordable amount of money.

SARMs at the proper doses are BY FAR the most potent muscle builders on the market today--bar none.

Respect your opinion to the fullest.
But the question is.
LGD or legal andro combo.
I think 1 andro alone will make a man stronger than LGD.
BUT both times I've taken LGDit was under 15mg.
After reading what you wrote it makes me want to revisit LGD at 30mg

 

[Cgkone]

S23 and RAD-140= better than ANY DHEA-based "andro" product...period.

S23 and YK-11= better than ANY DHEA-based "andro" product...period.

S23 and LGD= better than any DHEA-based "andro" product...period.


Any of those cycles will provide straight up steroid-like gains--gains will be similar to a moderate test and Anavar/Winstrol cycle. No DHEA prohormone is going to do that.

In my opinion, I think ANY of those compounds, even when used ALONE, can potentially provide better results than any Andro combination. The main factor here responsible for determining results is the DOSE employed. A LOT of guys only use 5-10 mg of LGD and then compare that to 1000+ mg's of 1-Andro, 4-Andro, and Epiandro.

However, if LGD is used at a higher dose (20-30 mg/day, but preferably 20 mg and stacked with another SARM), the results will certainly trump ANY DHEA-based cycle available. The problem is that most companies only sell LGD in 300 mg bottles, so the individual can only use 10 mg/day for 30 days. NOT good enough. I guarantee that if anyone were to use, say, 20 mg/day of S23 and 20 mg/day RAD-140, LGD, or YK...the results will be VERY good. Remember, these compounds are already fully active (unlike DHEA-based Andros, in which only a small portion becomes metabolically active) and display greater muscle building potency than testosterone according to all studies. If you want to make crazy size and strength gains (I'm talking like 20-25+ lbs in 6-8 weeks, assuming the individual hasn't already run a bunch of cycles and is approaching their natural genetic limit), then add MK-677 to the mix. You will never consider an Andro cycle again, especially because all three of these compounds can be used for less than the cost of an Andro cycle.

The good news is that SOME companies sell their SARMs in 600 mg bottles while also pricing them cheaper than most companies are selling their 300 mg bottles for. This allows the individual to make TRUE steroid like gains for about $100-$150 a month ($150 if MK is added to it) for an affordable amount of money.

SARMs at the proper doses are BY FAR the most potent muscle builders on the market today--bar none.

Actually I've got s23/sr9009 on the shelf just need more LGD.
I was so under whelmed by 12 mg of LGD that I had basically written it off.

 

[christ83189]

Actually I've got s23/sr9009 on the shelf just need more LGD.
I was so under whelmed by 12 mg of LGD that I had basically written it off.

Have you tried s23 out yet? I keep hearing about how awesome it is but havent come across anyone whos actually tried it so idk where thats coming from. Makes me want to take it for a test spin though lol

 

[Cgkone]

Have you tried s23 out yet? I keep hearing about how awesome it is but havent come across anyone whos actually tried it so idk where thats coming from. Makes me want to take it for a test spin though lol

Nope I'm going to though that's been on my list for a couple months now . Once everybody started talking about how strong it was. I've only tried ostarine lgd rad and S4 in my opinion S4 s**** on all of the other ones. But then again after reading what Mike Arnold wrote maybe I'm not running lgd high enough to fully respect it

 

[christ83189]

Nope I'm going to though that's been on my list for a couple months now . Once everybody started talking about how strong it was. I've only tried ostarine lgd rad and S4 in my opinion S4 s**** on all of the other ones. But then again after reading what Mike Arnold wrote maybe I'm not running lgd high enough to fully respect it

Yeah thats strange though ive only ever heard of people taking lgd 10-15mg and heard its the s***.

 

[Cgkone]

Yeah thats strange though ive only ever heard of people taking lgd 10-15mg and heard its the s***.

I got absolutely zero from lgd besides being a little bit Fuller in the muscles. But that was under 15 mg. No on feeling no real strength increases nothing other than a little bit more fullness in my muscles. I have three or four half-eaten bottles of lgd because I kept thinking I was getting bunk stuff. After I knew I had a bottle of legit lgd and still wasn't feeling s*** from it I just kind of given up on it. I thought 15 mg was high. But I'm totally willing to do a 30 milligram experiment and revisit lgd

 

[christ83189]

I got absolutely zero from lgd besides being a little bit Fuller in the muscles. But that was under 15 mg. No on feeling no real strength increases nothing other than a little bit more fullness in my muscles. I have three or four half-eaten bottles of lgd because I kept thinking I was getting bunk stuff. After I knew I had a bottle of legit lgd and still wasn't feeling s*** from it I just kind of given up on it. I thought 15 mg was high. But I'm totally willing to do a 30 milligram experiment and revisit lgd

Id like to see how that goes. Im taking it right now at 10mg about 3 weeks in. Freaking starving all the time and the lethargy is kicking my butt. Getting bigger and leaning out some. I was using dermacrine to combat the lethargy and its doing absolutely nothing. Just got on trt only a few days removed from my first pin so hopefully thatll help soon. I was planning on running it for 8 weeks so in a few weeks ill know just how good it is. Ive just never heard anyone say they didnt get anything out of it. Maybe you're just a nonresponder to it or something (if thats even a thing lol)

 

[Cgkone]

Id like to see how that goes. Im taking it right now at 10mg about 3 weeks in. Freaking starving all the time and the lethargy is kicking my butt. Getting bigger and leaning out some. I was using dermacrine to combat the lethargy and its doing absolutely nothing. Just got on trt only a few days removed from my first pin so hopefully thatll help soon. I was planning on running it for 8 weeks so in a few weeks ill know just how good it is. Ive just never heard anyone say they didnt get anything out of it. Maybe you're just a nonresponder to it or something (if thats even a thing lol)

trt is going to help a lot it's just going to take a while.
I've never heard anybody say they had lethargy on lgd while on trt so you'll be fine once that test kicks in

 

[christ83189]

trt is going to help a lot it's just going to take a while.
I've never heard anybody say they had lethargy on lgd while on trt so you'll be fine once that test kicks in

Awesome. Never done test before but everything ive read says that too. I researched it a TON before getting on it. And really i was super lethargic before ever touching the lgd anyways so im used to it. It just gets hard sometimes when im working. It hits real hard sometimes when im driving too and that sucks lol

 

[Cgkone]

Awesome. Never done test before but everything ive read says that too. I researched it a TON before getting on it. And really i was super lethargic before ever touching the lgd anyways so im used to it. It just gets hard sometimes when im working. It hits real hard sometimes when im driving too and that sucks lol

Do you power lift also?

 

[Cgkone]

Awesome. Never done test before but everything ive read says that too. I researched it a TON before getting on it. And really i was super lethargic before ever touching the lgd anyways so im used to it. It just gets hard sometimes when im working. It hits real hard sometimes when im driving too and that sucks lol

You just got to be patient because for some people low amounts of test take a really long time to kick in

 

[christ83189]

Do you power lift also?

Yeah thats my main syle of program. Im running 5/3/1 right now. Want to compete eventually but i took a hiatis from the gym for a bit so im working on getting my strength back right now. Im shooting for doing a meet later this year or maybe early next year

 

[Cgkone]

Yeah thats my main syle of program. Im running 5/3/1 right now. Want to compete eventually but i took a hiatis from the gym for a bit so im working on getting my strength back right now. Im shooting for doing a meet later this year or maybe early next year

That was my main gripe from LGD.
No real strength increase.
That was my main point in this thread
You give a guy recommended doses of LGD and another guy recommended doses of the typical legal dhea andro combos, I bet most of the time the guy running the andro is going to get a bigger strength increase.
Are you feeling stronger on LGD?
And have you ran the andro combo?

 

[christ83189]

That was my main gripe from LGD.
No real strength increase.
That was my main point in this thread
You give a guy recommended doses of LGD and another guy recommended doses of the typical legal dhea andro combos, I bet most of the time the guy running the andro is going to get a bigger strength increase.
Are you feeling stronger on LGD?
And have you ran the andro combo?

Yeah i ran the andros and got absolutely nothing from it from what i can remember. Leaned out a bit. So far strength has been steadily increasing. Not anything crazy but im hoping it gets better. Some guys say they got way stronger. Thats one of the things that made me want to run it. So im hoping its not wasted money lol. Im at that point right now where the gains should start coming faster so we'll see

 

[Cgkone]

Yeah i ran the andros and got absolutely nothing from it from what i can remember. Leaned out a bit. So far strength has been steadily increasing. Not anything crazy but im hoping it gets better. Some guys say they got way stronger. Thats one of the things that made me want to run it. So im hoping its not wasted money lol. Im at that point right now where the gains should start coming faster so we'll see

MSTEN and a test base would blow your PTs out of the water.
Since you ok with injecting your options are limitless.

 

[christ83189]

MSTEN and a test base would blow your PTs out of the water.
Since you ok with injecting your options are limitless.

My personal favorites are dmz and msten actually. Ive always wanted to try out an injectible cycle but the legality issue kinda gets in the way. I dont know where to get them and know that they're legit and also if my wife found out i picked some illegal AAS she would flip. It was hard enough convincing her to let me get on doctor prescribed testosterone to treat my low t lol

 

[Cgkone]

My personal favorites are dmz and msten actually. Ive always wanted to try out an injectible cycle but the legality issue kinda gets in the way. I dont know where to get them and know that they're legit and also if my wife found out i picked some illegal AAS she would flip. It was hard enough convincing her to let me get on doctor prescribed testosterone to treat my low t lol

Once there are vials in the house its easy to sneak other vials in the house.

 

[christ83189]

Once there are vials in the house its easy to sneak other vials in the house.

Thats true. I would just need to find a source. And ordering it online would be tough cause shes the one thats home when the packages come in. Trust me its something ive been thinking about for a while. When the opportunity arises im gonna take it for sure

 

[discgolf]

Any results?

 

[JoePaul39]

Yeah i ran the andros and got absolutely nothing from it from what i can remember. Leaned out a bit. So far strength has been steadily increasing. Not anything crazy but im hoping it gets better. Some guys say they got way stronger. Thats one of the things that made me want to run it. So im hoping its not wasted money lol. Im at that point right now where the gains should start coming faster so we'll see

Did you run the andros while on trt or before? Reason I ask is because I am probably going to be going in trt soon and have andros stocked up that I don’t want to waste. Problem is dr would
Run labs every 3 months. If I ran an 8 week cycle of andros on trt, do you think 4 weeks after cycle would be sufficient time for the lipids and estrogen levels to return to normal for doctors lab work? Also, I heard blood thickening is a concern with trt patients, did the andros cause you a problem with that if u took them while on trt?

 

[christ83189]

Did you run the andros while on trt or before? Reason I ask is because I am probably going to be going in trt soon and have andros stocked up that I don’t want to waste. Problem is dr would
Run labs every 3 months. If I ran an 8 week cycle of andros on trt, do you think 4 weeks after cycle would be sufficient time for the lipids and estrogen levels to return to normal for doctors lab work? Also, I heard blood thickening is a concern with trt patients, did the andros cause you a problem with that if u took them while on trt?

I wasnt on trt when i took them. And idk for sure about the bloods but i would imagine that would be emough time. And yes blood thickening is an issue that you gotta watch through blood work and donate when necessary but i dont know if andros woukd effect that... Im not the most knowledgable person in the world about this stuff. Im still learning myself

 

[JoePaul39]

I wasnt on trt when i took them. And idk for sure about the bloods but i would imagine that would be emough time. And yes blood thickening is an issue that you gotta watch through blood work and donate when necessary but i dont know if andros woukd effect that... Im not the most knowledgable person in the world about this stuff. Im still learning myself

I would think the andros could increase blood thickens for trt folks. From what I read increased test is the cause of the blood thickening and andros increase test. I know you can donate blood to decrease the thickness. Somebody needs to write a book on taking prohormones if on trt lol. I was considering lgd4033 instead since it doesn’t increase test from what I have heard, thus no blood thickening concerns. Problem is I have 2 8 week cycles worth of andros and would be a shame to waste all of that. Maybe if u ran andros now with the trt you would get gains from the added test from the trt injections. When you ran them before your system stopped making test.