Looking worse after steroid cycle

[mxrider28]

Finished up my first cycle (test e 500mg 12 weeks plus 6 weeks pct). Currently one week past pct and I feel pretty good but I feel like my body is turning to crap. Almost worse then pre cycle. Ive always had a 6 pack and now for the first time I dont. It feels impossible to get a "pump" in the gym anymore and I just feel really flat(no 3d shoulders, abs). On cycle I went from 203-222. Now I am at 213. Im still pretty close to the same size as I was when "on" 18in arms ect. but just look flat, not full at all. Do you think this is just from fat gain or could something be messed up from the hormones like cortisol or something. Here is a pic

 

[Chados]

Weight gain and just test maybe you didn't use an ai? Well this can bloat you and you've likely dropped water weight mostly . I'm sure you've put on more muscles than natural and yes with weight gain comes fat. First cycle is always hard and cortisol can be tough to control. Diet is important here.

 

[mxrider28]

I used armidex during cycle. Definitely was holding water(up 7lb first week). I drank twice during PCT. Could that have messed something up?

 

[NoAddedHmones]

A few months on that amount of Test changes your perception on what a pump should/would be...you are always going to lose that additional glycogen and some muscle hardness when your androgens return to homeostasis.

How has your diet differed from on cycle, pct and now?

 

[mxrider28]

Haha yes I was thinking it could be a mental thing. During Cycle started at 4000 cal and finished at 4500. Pct about 4300-4500. Now at 4300 but think Im going to go down to 4k to loose some fat. Worried about loosing muscle though

 

[Chados]

I used armidex during cycle. Definitely was holding water(up 7lb first week). I drank twice during PCT. Could that have messed something up?

Doubt it, doesn't help but you should be able to see results and you probably got some even if they're not fantastic you have to understand that a first cycle can be horrible cause you dont know how to do it properly with the steroid, maybe with diet etc. It's very hard to bulk on test only and expect super results cause you always expect more than what is reality until you understand the compounds. Steroids help you but the rest is really up to you. I see people coming of tren on a first cycle and look like nothing changed. If you gained 5 lbs of muscle that's a lot that you wouldn't make naturally. Bulk = no abs, cut = abs. It's hard to have both.

 

[LGTWHIT]

^^^^^^^Not when on tren ..... just saying

 

[Canes325]

How trusted is your source of PCT meds? That may be the first place I look, under doses clomid/nolva.

 

[LGTWHIT]

On a serious note, i was the same way as the OP. Never could maintain any gains after cycle even during pct. I then decided to cruise, game changer. Blasting then pct will get old real quick for most folks and the roller coaster of hormonal changes to come with it. Never again. Not suggesting this to the OP but if you are serious about this game, it’s the only way. Another option MX is to roll with MK677 in pct as it won’t effect test production and will help maintain gains etc.. GH is an option too .

 

[bigbeaph]

A few months on that amount of Test changes your perception on what a pump should/would be...you are always going to lose that additional glycogen and some muscle hardness when your androgens return to homeostasis.

How has your diet differed from on cycle, pct and now?

Amen. Putting that much extra hormone into your body changes the definition of "pump." I always add a really good pump product at pct time. There are a few that should do the job....it still is not going to be the same as that extra androgen / glycogen pump but it feels good. Adds to the image you see also. Anything to help feel good during pct is on the table.

 

[jameschoi]

Amen. Putting that much extra hormone into your body changes the definition of "pump." I always add a really good pump product at pct time. There are a few that should do the job....it still is not going to be the same as that extra androgen / glycogen pump but it feels good. Adds to the image you see also. Anything to help feel good during pct is on the table.

what pump product do you use.

 

[booneman77]

I agree with the masses here, pct will never feel the same as “normal natty” after a cycle skews your perception.

Try some x gels and citrulline, Agmatine, glycophase and/or an all inclusive pump pre like high volume. That will all certainly help and things like a gda/Agmatine will help with the nutrient partitioning that goes way down during pct as well.

Reduce xt for cortisol is also a must have for pct IMO.

 

[mxrider28]

How trusted is your source of PCT meds? That may be the first place I look, under doses clomid/nolva.

I got my test and pct stuff from the same source and I know the Test was legit because I got bloods done. My sex drive is back to normal and I feel like "normal" again but will get bloods done in another 4 weeks.

 

[mxrider28]

On a serious note, i was the same way as the OP. Never could maintain any gains after cycle even during pct. I then decided to cruise, game changer. Blasting then pct will get old real quick for most folks and the roller coaster of hormonal changes to come with it. Never again. Not suggesting this to the OP but if you are serious about this game, it’s the only way. Another option MX is to roll with MK677 in pct as it won’t effect test production and will help maintain gains etc.. GH is an option too .

Ok thanks will look into MK677. I dont want to blast and cruise just yet as im only 23 and would like kids one day.

 

[mxrider28]

Amen. Putting that much extra hormone into your body changes the definition of "pump." I always add a really good pump product at pct time. There are a few that should do the job....it still is not going to be the same as that extra androgen / glycogen pump but it feels good. Adds to the image you see also. Anything to help feel good during pct is on the table.

Thats not a bad idea. Ill look for something.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Could be mental, could be hormonal; it’s hard to say since it’s not our body. Maybe get cortisol, estradiol and thyroid tested with your next bloodwork.

 

[Glycomann]

Finished up my first cycle (test e 500mg 12 weeks plus 6 weeks pct). Currently one week past pct and I feel pretty good but I feel like my body is turning to crap. Almost worse then pre cycle. Ive always had a 6 pack and now for the first time I don't. It feels impossible to get a "pump" in the gym anymore and I just feel really flat(no 3d shoulders, abs). On cycle I went from 203-222. Now I am at 213. Im still pretty close to the same size as I was when "on" 18in arms ect. but just look flat, not full at all. Do you think this is just from fat gain or could something be messed up from the hormones like cortisol or something. Here is a pic
View attachment 159347

I've watched these patterns over the last 30+ years. Forget about adding in more chemicals. What you need to do is normalize. Basically it comes down to the three 8s. The first 8 weeks is coming down off AAS and 1/2 of that sucks. The second 8 weeks starts to get better. By the end of the third 8 weeks off you are back to normal making natty gains again. It takes some time to normalize and reestablish your hormonal axis. It takes more time than some want to believe. If you do this you will probably keep about 1/2 the weight you gained on real muscle. Really, that is most of the muscle gained because 1/2 the weight is water retention inside and outside of the muscle when on AAS. It's called the steroid pump.

 

[JCR97]

Get on some igf-1 des 50mcg bilateral I’ve used it gives you insane pumps and adds good size. I have never used test so not sure what kind of pump it gives but Many use it as a pct. also I know this may sound stupid but many guys lose motivation while in pct cause they feel the need to have something to be “on” des gives you that.

 

[swimfan65]

Doubt it, doesn't help but you should be able to see results and you probably got some even if they're not fantastic you have to understand that a first cycle can be horrible cause you dont know how to do it properly with the steroid, maybe with diet etc. It's very hard to bulk on test only and expect super results cause you always expect more than what is reality until you understand the compounds. Steroids help you but the rest is really up to you. I see people coming of tren on a first cycle and look like nothing changed. If you gained 5 lbs of muscle that's a lot that you wouldn't make naturally. Bulk = no abs, cut = abs. It's hard to have both.

My first cycle was Test at 600 wk. I got very big and very strong. For me, bulking on a Test only cycle is pretty easy..I have to run a gram a week now to do it..but its always done the trick.

 

[bigdavid]

I've watched these patterns over the last 30+ years. Forget about adding in more chemicals. What you need to do is normalize. Basically it comes down to the three 8s. The first 8 weeks is coming down off AAS and 1/2 of that sucks. The second 8 weeks starts to get better. By the end of the third 8 weeks off you are back to normal making natty gains again. It takes some time to normalize and reestablish your hormonal axis. It takes more time than some want to believe. If you do this you will probably keep about 1/2 the weight you gained on real muscle. Really, that is most of the muscle gained because 1/2 the weight is water retention inside and outside of the muscle when on AAS. It's called the steroid pump.

I agree with you here re: how long it takes to recover from AAS. A 4 week or even 8 week pct doesn’t really get you back to “normal”. It takes months for that to happen. Majority of guys I know just take 8 weeks off and go back on. I personally couldn’t deal with the ups and downs of pct so for now I do trt with hcg in between blasts. Not ideal for anyone, but testicular size is same on trt as before using (though it takes higher hcg doses than some here take, personally doing 1000 IU twice weekly) and it gets rid of the pct dip. I can say going from blasts to trt there isn’t a huge drop in size, presumably since I don’t get the catabolic hormone surges that you would get in a real pct. but unless you are willing to use clomid daily for months you won’t get natty gains right away like you said.

 

[JCR97]

Since we’re on the topic of hormonal recovery... What about sarms? How long do you think it takes to fully recover? I believe it’s less since it doesn’t affect lh and fsh as much but since they’re relatively new and haven’t been studied much who knows? I also don’t believe bloods to be 100% true because in bio there’s always another cell or hormone to be discovered and bloods don’t have all of them on there. Not to hijack your thread op just wanted to ask a simple q.

 

[Chados]

My first cycle was Test at 600 wk. I got very big and very strong. For me, bulking on a Test only cycle is pretty easy..I have to run a gram a week now to do it..but its always done the trick.

Yeah it is obviously very effective but personally I think test is quite a dirty bulker at high doses and I rather go lower on the test and add compounds, I think primo is the most underated and one of the least harmful compounds and while it's not super potent, it's a nice addition to any cycle.

 

[bigbeaph]

Yeah it is obviously very effective but personally I think test is quite a dirty bulker at high doses and I rather go lower on the test and add compounds, I think primo is the most underated and one of the least harmful compounds and while it's not super potent, it's a nice addition to any cycle.

Agreed...if you can afford the stuff! I do not think you can go wrong with primo ever.

 

[brofessorx]

That’s why I’ve said fck cycling and just stay on 100mg test per week.

 

[brofessorx]

That’s why I’ve said fck cycling and just stay on 100mg test per week.

 

[Alistair_]

OP, you look great in that picture. I think you’re being a bit moody because your hormones are still out of whack.

Seriously, considering your young age of 23, I hope you forget about using gear for for a few more years because you sure as hell don’t need it to look good.

 

[Smont]

Yeah it is obviously very effective but personally I think test is quite a dirty bulker at high doses and I rather go lower on the test and add compounds, I think primo is the most underated and one of the least harmful compounds and while it's not super potent, it's a nice addition to any cycle.

I don't know what your deal is with hating testosterone but it's crazy, if I had to pick 1 steroid and never use anything but that it would be testosterone.

 

[Chados]

I don't know what your deal is with hating testosterone but it's crazy, if I had to pick 1 steroid and never use anything but that it would be testosterone.

Test is the king but high dosage aren't . I like to stack compounds cause test alone isn't clean enough at high dosages. Example 300mg test and deca beats test at 500all day

 

[Smont]

I have no issues with test up to 750mg. Big size and strength gains very little bloating, great sense of well being and sex drive through the roof

 

[Alistair_]

I don't know what your deal is with hating testosterone but it's crazy, if I had to pick 1 steroid and never use anything but that it would be testosterone.

What dose do you like to run test at and do you stack other compounds?

 

[Smont]

I'm a big fan of test/eq, 500/500 For 20 weeks

 

[Smont]

Unfortunately I've used a lot more orals then injectables

 

[mxrider28]

OP, you look great in that picture. I think you’re being a bit moody because your hormones are still out of whack.

Seriously, considering your young age of 23, I hope you forget about using gear for for a few more years because you sure as hell don’t need it to look good.

Thanks man. My goal is to get to 220-225 at 5%bf. I dont think theres any way to get the natty. Thats the reason for the gear.

 

[Smont]

Thanks man. My goal is to get to 220-225 at 5%bf. I dont think theres any way to get the natty. Thats the reason for the gear.

5% is stage ready bodybuilder condition, you will feel like dog**** and probably not be able to get a erection maintaining that condition for more then a few weeks

 

[mxrider28]

5% is stage ready bodybuilder condition, you will feel like dog**** and probably not be able to get a erection maintaining that condition for more then a few weeks

True yes definitely not looking to maintain that but eventually reach that level for a show down the road.

 

[mxrider28]

What would you guys say my BF is at right now? 14%

 

[brofessorx]

What would you guys say my BF is at right now? 14%

10-12%

 

[Smont]

12-15

 

[Alistair_]

What would you guys say my BF is at right now? 14%

Looks more like 11% to me

 

[Alistair_]

True yes definitely not looking to maintain that but eventually reach that level for a show down the road.

I see. I was all about single digit body fat in my twenties as well. Probably because I could never reach any appreciable size at that age. Now in my 40’s i’m very happy to be 10% in the summer and 11 to 12% in the winter at 190 - 195 pounds and all I use is TRT with some LGD 4033 here and there.

 

[Alistair_]

I have no issues with test up to 750mg. Big size and strength gains very little bloating, great sense of well being and sex drive through the roof

Feeling good on cycle is what is most important to me. I’ve been on TRT for almost a year and I’m considering blasting 500mg a week for a couple months.