First sarms cycle, questions about my protocol, and time between sarms cycles

[Slapoyjoe]

Hello. I’m new here, and hope to learn from you guys.

I’m 46, 5’11, 205 pounds, ca 16 % bf, and currently on month 4 of a bulk. I track macros and get 260-300 grams of protein ed on ca 3500 cals.

I’ve been lifting since 1984, and was always natural until I started my first sarms cycle 4 weeks ago: 10 mg lgd, 25 mg ostarine, 10 mg mk-677 ed.

I’ve made very good gains over the past 4 weeks on lifts and have gained weight. I’m as strong as I’ve been since I was 16, which means a 300-pound bench. I’m feeling all alpha in the gym, and the veins are popping. So I’m really happy and I’m thinking about what comes next.

My protocol and plans (revised based on feedback):

1) Current (planned) protocol: 8-week cycle (10mg lgd, 25 mg ost, 10 mg mk-677) followed by Rebirth by Black Lion (serm) and T support. My natural T level is 795. Can I extend my initial cycle to 10 or 12 weeks? The idea would be to take 6-8 weeks to recover and then start a cutting cycle as soon as I am recovered.

2) My cutting stack will include: ostarine 15 mg, S4 25 mg, and GW1516 10 mg ed for 8-12 weeks, depending on results and how I feel. Should I continue the mk-677 on the cut? I would follow the cutting stack with a couple months totally off while hopefully looking shredded at maintenance cals of 2800 before recomping for the fall using this same stack before the next winter bulk. My cutting macros are ca 2200-2300 cals with minimum of 200 grams of protein.

Does this protocol seem reasonable to you guys?, and important: How long do you think I need between the two cycles?

I’m grateful for your advice.

 

[Jm88888]

Hello. I’m new here, and hope to learn from you guys.

I’m 46, 5’11, 205 pounds, ca 16 % bf, and currently on month 4 of a bulk. I track macros and get 260-300 grams of protein ed on ca 3500 cals.

I’ve been lifting since 1984, and was always natural until I started my first sarms cycle 4 weeks ago: 10 mg lgd, 25 mg ostarine, 10 mg mk-677 ed.

I’ve made very good gains over the past 4 weeks on lifts and have gained weight. I’m as strong as I’ve been since I was 16, which means a 300-pound bench. I’m feeling all alpha in the gym, and the veins are popping. So I’m really happy and I’m thinking about what comes next.

My protocol and plans:

1) Current (planned) protocol: 8-week cycle (10mg lgd, 25 mg ost, 10 mg mk-677) followed by DAA and zma for T support. My natural T level is 795. Can I extend my initial cycle to 10 or 12 weeks? The idea would be to take some time to recover and then start a cutting cycle 1 March or shortly after as soon as I am recovered.

2) My cutting stack will include: ostarine 15 mg, S4 25 mg, GW1516 10 mg ed for 8-12 weeks, depending on results and how I feel. Should I continue the mk-677 on the cut? I would follow the cutting stack with a couple months totally off while hopefully looking shredded at maintenance cals of 2800 before recomping for the fall using this same stack before the next winter bulk. My cutting macros are ca 2200-2300 cals with minimum of 200 grams of protein.

Does this protocol seem reasonable to you guys?, and important: How long do you think I need between the two cycles?

I’m grateful for your advice.

If you do LGD you need a test base.
4 andro or trestolone. Dermacrine at the least. My opinion. And you’ll need Clomid for pct. if you do trest get some Aromasin. I just did a cycle of Lgd, mk, trestolone. 10 week run.

 

[Dgordan]

I've read it's not good to take ost more than 6 weeks, I'm currently running a Sarms cycle including ost and am about to reach my final week with it. Otherwise I'd say your set up seems fine in terms of amounts. I'm going to take about 5 weeks between my current and next cycle.

What's your pct look like?

 

[Dgordan]

If you do LGD you need a test base.
4 andro or trestolone. Dermacrine at the least. My opinion. And you’ll need Clomid for pct. if you do trest get some Aromasin. I just did a cycle of Lgd, mk, trestolone. 10 week run.

Never heard of needing a test base for LGD; also one of the things I'm currently running. Why do you suggest this?

 

[Jm88888]

Never heard of needing a test base for LGD; also one of the things I'm currently running. Why do you suggest this?

Surprised you never heard this.... LGD shuts down your production of TEST. Did you review the clinical trial statistics? They show dramatic drop in testosterone production with only 1mg per week. You’ll likely be doing 500-1500% more than that.

Hope this helps...

 

[Slapoyjoe]

I don’t run a T base because my natural T is 795 and I’m very happy with that at my age. My PCT will consist of dragonsblood, zma, and DAA. I’m fine if it takes a bit longer to bounce back than taking clomid or nova tbh.

So, considering my goals, how long should I take between sarms bulking and cutting cycles? Can I extend my lgd, ost, and mk-677 cycle to 10 or 12 weeks?

Should I not take mk-677 during the cutting stack?

 

[cstallion]

I don’t run a T base because my natural T is 795 and I’m very happy with that at my age.

Not anymore lol!

 

[Slapoyjoe]

Not anymore lol!

It will come back. I’m not worried about it at all. What do you think of my planned protocol, and how long should I take between cycles?

 

[cstallion]

It will come back. I’m not worried about it at all. What do you think of my planned protocol, and how long should I take between cycles?

Dude, not to be a dick, but you’re 46. Granted you didn’t take harsh compounds, but your system isn’t exactly a spring chicken either. I’m not saying you are shut down by any means, but DAA and ZMA most likely won’t work for you. At least it won’t get you back up to the mid 700s like before your stack. I’d get some Clomid and do things the proper way if I were you. Take bloods after 8 weeks and then reevaluate from there.

 

[cstallion]

It will come back. I’m not worried about it at all. What do you think of my planned protocol, and how long should I take between cycles?

And to answer your last question, how long should you wait between cycles, you should wait until you recovered from your previous cycle. Unless you just want to steer yourself right into a TRT clinic.

 

[Slapoyjoe]

No offense taken. I’ve never done gear and have been totally natural for decades until my recent sarms cycle. Clomid is illegal here, and I have a high profile job. My questions are not about trt or clomid. So I’m not really interested in going there. I know a lot of folks here have different views, and that’s fine.

So my questions are about time between cycles, and whether I should stop the mk-677 during the cut. What would you do, keeping my goals in mind? Thanks for your help.

 

[Whisky]

No offense taken. I’ve never done gear and have been totally natural for decades until my recent sarms cycle. Clomid is illegal here, and I have a high profile job. My questions are not about trt or clomid. So I’m not really interested in going there. I know a lot of folks here have different views, and that’s fine.

So my questions are about time between cycles, and whether I should stop the mk-677 during the cut. What would you do, keeping my goals in mind? Thanks for your help.

Mk677 works best when run for spells of 3 months upwards. I’m about 10 weeks into running it. Started at 12.5 pd during a ph cycle and bumped to 25pd in pct. it can be run as long as you like really.

I was also natty until Oct last year, clomid is only available in the uk with a prescription but honestly bro it was very easy to get it shipped from a legit pharmacy. I also have nolva and exem.

I had no reason to doubt my test levels before my first run but I sure as **** don’t want to risk them afterwards. Whatever your natural test was before it isn’t that now. A serm (clomid) is basically to kickstart your hpta quickly. You probably would recover given enough time but the point is that in the time it takes you’d lose most/all the on cycle gains....all the advice above to get a serm is for a good reason bro - we’re trying to help.

My boys were back bouncing around mid week 2 of pct and at the end of week 3 (today) I’ve literally just hit 2 pbs so I’m actually starting to get stronger post cycle now which is a really good sign (I’m still running the mk)

Unless your getting bloods to check full recovery standard rule of thumb is time on cycle plus time on pct equals time off.

 

[cstallion]

No offense taken. I’ve never done gear and have been totally natural for decades until my recent sarms cycle. Clomid is illegal here, and I have a high profile job. My questions are not about trt or clomid. So I’m not really interested in going there. I know a lot of folks here have different views, and that’s fine.

So my questions are about time between cycles, and whether I should stop the mk-677 during the cut. What would you do, keeping my goals in mind? Thanks for your help.

I'm sorry man, but I can't help you. I understand about trying to keep it legal by not purchasing Clomid, and I understand about not wanting to get onto TRT. But by running said stack, you should have done your research and realized that even though these products are legal, they still require pharma grade ancillaries to recover properly.

That being said, I personally don't feel comfortable giving you any advice on OTC options like DAA and ZMA, because frankly they won't do ****. If you still insist on OTC, please go with Viron, Rebirth and Letrone as they are actually legit products. And there are multiple logs here vouching for their effectiveness. brundel might be able to help you out if you PM him.

 

[Slapoyjoe]

I'm sorry man, but I can't help you. I understand about trying to keep it legal by not purchasing Clomid, and I understand about not wanting to get onto TRT. But by running said stack, you should have done your research and realized that even though these products are legal, they still require pharma grade ancillaries to recover properly.

That being said, I personally don't feel comfortable giving you any advice on OTC options like DAA and ZMA, because frankly they won't do ****. If you still insist on OTC, please go with Viron, Rebirth and Letrone as they are actually legit products. And there are multiple logs here vouching for their effectiveness. brundel might be able to help you out if you PM him.

Dude, you did just help me. I’ve done plenty of research (I’m actually a researcher irl lol), and I will absolutely look into Viron, Rebirth, and Letrone.

 

[cstallion]

Dude, you did just help me. I’ve done plenty of research (I’m actually a researcher irl lol), and I will absolutely look into Viron, Rebirth, and Letrone.

Good deal brother. If I seemed harsh, it’s only because I wanted to get my point across that you have better options. Keep me posted and let me know if I can be of more assistance.

 

[Bintherduntht]

I'm sorry man, but I can't help you. I understand about trying to keep it legal by not purchasing Clomid, and I understand about not wanting to get onto TRT. But by running said stack, you should have done your research and realized that even though these products are legal, they still require pharma grade ancillaries to recover properly.

That being said, I personally don't feel comfortable giving you any advice on OTC options like DAA and ZMA, because frankly they won't do ****. If you still insist on OTC, please go with Viron, Rebirth and Letrone as they are actually legit products. And there are multiple logs here vouching for their effectiveness. brundel might be able to help you out if you PM him.

Nolvadex gets your nuts going.

 

[cstallion]

Nolvadex gets your nuts going.

Yes it does! Just like Clomid gets your nuts going. Not like DAA and ZMA, which don’t get your nuts going.

 

[Slapoyjoe]

I’ve revised the original post based on feedback.

What do you think of my planned protocols and cycle lengths, keeping my goals in mind?

Thanks for the positive feedback, guys. I really appreciate it.

 

[user567]

I’ve revised the original post based on feedback.

What do you think of my planned protocols and cycle lengths, keeping my goals in mind?

Thanks for the positive feedback, guys. I really appreciate it.

I would take equal time off between cycles. 8 weeks on 8 weeks off for homeostasis to come back. This is assuming your going to take a SERM for PCT. If your going to try to jump start your HPTA at age 46 with natural products your crazy

 

[user567]

I've read it's not good to take ost more than 6 weeks, I'm currently running a Sarms cycle including ost and am about to reach my final week with it. Otherwise I'd say your set up seems fine in terms of amounts. I'm going to take about 5 weeks between my current and next cycle.

What's your pct look like?

6 weeks is a complete waste of time. You should run OSTA closer to 12 weeks

 

[Slapoyjoe]

I would take equal time off between cycles. 8 weeks on 8 weeks off for homeostasis to come back. This is assuming your going to take a SERM for PCT. If your going to try to jump start your HPTA at age 46 with natural products your crazy

Rebirth is a serm, and I’ll run it along T support. I’m planning on 8 weeks off before the cutting cycle. I will be eating at a surplus and will be doing heavy lifting the whole time.

 

[Whisky]

Rebirth is a serm, and I’ll run it along T support. I’m planning on 8 weeks off before the cutting cycle. I will be eating at a surplus and will be doing heavy lifting the whole time.

Its not a serm bro........

 

[Chasingtails]

Rebirth definitely is not a serm.

While I’m sure you believe that your test levels will naturally rebound to where they currently are (and you may well be right, I won’t argue that point), I think you’re missing that the time it takes to get there is of crucial importance when you’re attempting to keep gains post cycle.

 

[Slapoyjoe]

Well. I’m in a difficult situation then I guess. Everyone here suggests I take clomid or nova but they simply aren’t options for me.

 

[Chasingtails]

Then to answer your specific question on time off if you’re going to proceed without a serm...you’ll be good to go when your natural test levels get back to where they were on pre cycle bloods (assuming all other health markers are favorable)

 

[user567]

Well. I’m in a difficult situation then I guess. Everyone here suggests I take clomid or nova but they simply aren’t options for me.

Then dont run the cycle. When you end your cycle your TEST will be super low. It will most likely take you a while to rebound. During this time those nice gains you just made will fade away. All for nothing. Do it right or dont do it. Why put your body through the roller coaster for nothing.

I am sure Clomid/Nolva isnt illegal rather you need a prescription in your country. What country are you from?

 

[Jm88888]

Well. I’m in a difficult situation then I guess. Everyone here suggests I take clomid or nova but they simply aren’t options for me.

Why are well researched, decades old, proven drugs not an option for you? But chemicals only through phase 1 trials are an option? I’m not trying to be a jerk here, but if you are ok with getting sarms you should be totally fine with using SERMs...

 

[Jm88888]

Then dont run the cycle. When you end your cycle your TEST will be super low. It will most likely take you a while to rebound. During this time those nice gains you just made will fade away. All for nothing. Do it right or dont do it. Why put your body through the roller coaster for nothing.

I am sure Clomid/Nolva isnt illegal rather you need a prescription in your country. What country are you from?

Absolutely... THIS ^

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Get a real serm for your pct and take enough time off before staring another cycle. You should’ve done a bit more research before hopping on a cycle tbh. And for you to say “I don’t need a test base because my natural test is high” shows that you don’t have the best understanding of how these things work. The purpose of a test base is to provide your body synthetic testosterone during your cycle because any suppressive compound will shutdown your natural test, resulting in less libido, energy, feeling of wellbeing, etc. I’d try to get a hold of some clomid, run it 50/50/25/25/25/25 and take a good 3-4 months off before taking anything else.

 

[SFreed]

Well. I’m in a difficult situation then I guess. Everyone here suggests I take clomid or nova but they simply aren’t options for me.

Then to answer your specific question on time off if you’re going to proceed without a serm...you’ll be good to go when your natural test levels get back to where they were on pre cycle bloods (assuming all other health markers are favorable)

Then dont run the cycle. When you end your cycle your TEST will be super low. It will most likely take you a while to rebound. During this time those nice gains you just made will fade away. All for nothing. Do it right or dont do it. Why put your body through the roller coaster for nothing.

I am sure Clomid/Nolva isnt illegal rather you need a prescription in your country. What country are you from?

Why are well researched, decades old, proven drugs not an option for you? But chemicals only through phase 1 trials are an option? I’m not trying to be a jerk here, but if you are ok with getting sarms you should be totally fine with using SERMs...

So much good info in these posts. If you cant do a SERM, and end up doing the cycle anyway, when you think you're feeling fine after your first cycle go get bloodwork done. That will determine if you're ready for your next cycle.

 

[Slapoyjoe]

This is a good solution.

I’ll get a blood test done and proceed when the evidence shows the body is ready.

 

[Slapoyjoe]

My bench is up 40 pounds, and I’m keeping my gains so far. My deadlift is way up too. I’m thrilled. Damn I feel good.

I’ve just gotten bloods back. Not even a month after ending my first sarms cycle and my T is 720. It’s a bit low, but not nearly as bad as some here suggested it would be. I’m on DAA, ZMA, and continuing MK-677. My diet is totally on point, which I’m sure also matters. I imagine that T rebound is highly individual, but I don’t think everyone needs clomid.

I’ll get a blood test in another month and if my T is back to near 800 I’m off to cycle 2.