Alternative to Test Due to low kidney function (SERM?)

tshaw024

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Hi All,

Recently found out that my kidney function isn't as great as it should be but nothing that isn't manageable or can't be reversed. Guess that's what on again off again creatine and improper supplementation will do to you after ten years.

I recently switched from a traditional workout to more HIIT training to cut some fat and went from 210 lbs and 12% bf to 192 lbs and 10% bf... yes you read that correctly... I mainly just lost muscle and not fat.

Anyways I'm totally bummed and want to get my mass back without adding a ton of fat. I'm trying to stay away from anything hormonal because I don't want to mess with my test levels and am looking for a more holistic approach. Any recommendations on a great muscle building alternative would be greatly appreciated. I know a little about SERM's and not sure if there are hormonal implications there but thinking that may be my best solution. Just not sure if that would have any undesired effect on my kidneys or not.

Thanks in advance!
 

cstallion

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Not to be a jerk, but are you sure it’s due to supplementation, specifically creatine? Or is it lifestyle related, i.e. tons of energy drinks or soda?
 

tshaw024

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Appreciate the question. I don't drink soda or energy drinks, maintain a pretty healthy lifestyle from a diet standpoint. Very could chance it could just be genetic but since I've stopped taking creatine my GFR levels have actually improved.

I'm told that the molecules in creatine are just too large for the kidneys to process which leads to damage in the lining over time.
 

cstallion

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Appreciate the question. I don't drink soda or energy drinks, maintain a pretty healthy lifestyle from a diet standpoint. Very could chance it could just be genetic but since I've stopped taking creatine my GFR levels have actually improved.

I'm told that the molecules in creatine are just too large for the kidneys to process which leads to damage in the lining over time.
Wow, that’s very interesting to say the least. Thanks for responding! And good luck in your journey brother!
 
StatePlan1425

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Appreciate the question. I don't drink soda or energy drinks, maintain a pretty healthy lifestyle from a diet standpoint. Very could chance it could just be genetic but since I've stopped taking creatine my GFR levels have actually improved.

I'm told that the molecules in creatine are just too large for the kidneys to process which leads to damage in the lining over time.
If your nephrologist told you this, then get a new doc immediately. If just your GP, then he’s wrong but not surprising. The reason your eGFR went down (Edit: went UP)* after stopping creatine use is that you are making less creatinine. Creatinine is a by product of creatine phosphate metabolism. Since this is something that is relatively constant it is a good molecule to measure to determine how well the kidneys are filtering. If you supplement with creatine, you are now producing more of the metabolite and thus it appears your eGFR is lower. Remember, the “e” in eGFR is “estimated” there are a couple of different algorithms used that take into consideration race, sex and age. But neither consider supplementation.

If you’re concerned about your kidneys, stay off creatine and a heavy protein diet for 30-45 days (washout period), make sure you are fully hydrated (a recent thread talks about this) and get bloods for creatinine and BUN. That should be a good baseline to know if you have any issues.

*Edit: I erroneously typed “eGFR went down” instead of “up” after ceasing creatine. eGFR went up because serum creatinine went down due to cessation of creatine. Sorry for any confusion my error may have caused.
 
booneman77

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Hi All,

Recently found out that my kidney function isn't as great as it should be but nothing that isn't manageable or can't be reversed. Guess that's what on again off again creatine and improper supplementation will do to you after ten years.

I recently switched from a traditional workout to more HIIT training to cut some fat and went from 210 lbs and 12% bf to 192 lbs and 10% bf... yes you read that correctly... I mainly just lost muscle and not fat.

Anyways I'm totally bummed and want to get my mass back without adding a ton of fat. I'm trying to stay away from anything hormonal because I don't want to mess with my test levels and am looking for a more holistic approach. Any recommendations on a great muscle building alternative would be greatly appreciated. I know a little about SERM's and not sure if there are hormonal implications there but thinking that may be my best solution. Just not sure if that would have any undesired effect on my kidneys or not.

Thanks in advance!
First, I think you really need to have a more educated convo with your doc (as state mentioned)... it sounds like he may need to get some new info.

As for the SERM, those are 100% hormonal. They will not work the same as pure test or the like, however they will certainly have a hormonal impact as well as some milder impact on other things such as liver/lipid levels.

If you want to try something to help, but do not want something hormonal, you need to look into some of that natural supps like CEL M-test or even some of the natural anabolics out there such as SNS X-gels, or CEL Epi-plex. These are all non-hormonal, but geared towards helping to build muscle through alternate pathways and signaling.
 

user567

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Hi All,

Recently found out that my kidney function isn't as great as it should be but nothing that isn't manageable or can't be reversed. Guess that's what on again off again creatine and improper supplementation will do to you after ten years.

I recently switched from a traditional workout to more HIIT training to cut some fat and went from 210 lbs and 12% bf to 192 lbs and 10% bf... yes you read that correctly... I mainly just lost muscle and not fat.

Anyways I'm totally bummed and want to get my mass back without adding a ton of fat. I'm trying to stay away from anything hormonal because I don't want to mess with my test levels and am looking for a more holistic approach. Any recommendations on a great muscle building alternative would be greatly appreciated. I know a little about SERM's and not sure if there are hormonal implications there but thinking that may be my best solution. Just not sure if that would have any undesired effect on my kidneys or not.

Thanks in advance!
Everytime I get blood work done my BUN and Creatinine are out of range. Now before I get blood work done I take a supplement called Kidney Stuff, and I lower my protein intake for 3 days before my test. Also you need to quit working out a few days before your test. When I do this my tests come back normal.

When muscle breaks down and rebuilds your kidneys are working extra hard get rid of it from the body. If your using muscle for energy (catabolic) your going to have high values as well. Same goes for processing protein from the body.
 

tshaw024

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Not sure why you say that, like I said my GFR actually increased (meaning kidney function improved) when I cut out the creatine completely. Although thanks so much for the supplement recommendations, that's exactly the type of thing I'm looking for. Since they are non-hormonal I would assume there is no post-cycle necessary?
 
Chados

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Not sure why you say that, like I said my GFR actually increased (meaning kidney function improved) when I cut out the creatine completely. Although thanks so much for the supplement recommendations, that's exactly the type of thing I'm looking for. Since they are non-hormonal I would assume there is no post-cycle necessary?
Exactly.
 
booneman77

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Not sure why you say that, like I said my GFR actually increased (meaning kidney function improved) when I cut out the creatine completely. Although thanks so much for the supplement recommendations, that's exactly the type of thing I'm looking for. Since they are non-hormonal I would assume there is no post-cycle necessary?
Nope. Anything non hormonal would not
 

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