Andro 1,4,epi combo advice. Which combo and how it worked for you?

[treukauf]

I have been creeping on these forums for years and am finally going to bite the bullet/pill. Let me preface this with injecting will not work for me because of multiple issues even though I see the advantage of it. I know there are a lot of good companies, but I jumped on the Olympic UK train. The only things I have used in the past are ostarine and bioforge.

Background: 32 yearold, Male, 212 lbs 6’0”. Ive been weight lifting consistently for the last 10 years with good gains (although my fiancé has forced me to also start going to xfit as well : ( ) I just had a full blood workup and everything was good, Testosterone was 480 ng/dl.

Goal: Gain strength, Muscle, and fat loss is a far third. I plan to eat clean and heavy, but slimming up the stomach is always nice. I know I should separate bulking and cutting. Fourth energy and feeling more like a 25 yearold would be great as well. Motivation and energy plays such a strong role in making it to the gym and pushing myself. A few months ago I had a mild shoulder injury from imbalance and had some issues with tendonitis in my knees patella tendon.



I bought:



Sup3r 1 Elite (dry, known for decent gains, lethargy, libido drop)

Sup3r 4 Elite (wetish, almost a test base, should help even out the 1 andro.)

Sup3r Epi Elite (dry, but aids in energy, libidio mood ect.)

Sup3r DHEA (aids in energy, raises test, hoping to help combat 1 andro too)

Sup3r PCT

Lean Extreme (just have it laying around)

Joyfull Joints

Ar1mcare pro (on cycle support) just saw a post on this causing ed for someone! Not sure this is needed?

Alphamaxx for post

Clomid or Nova??? Not sure which one to go with and I have seen both used on these stacks. I still need to find a source on these before I start.


Question: I have read lots of logs and lots of conflicting info. I’m a beginner and nervous to stack all 3. I would rather add them one at a time to tell if one is causing issues (BP or having a heart attack at a stupid xfit work out haha). I have read some of the science for each, but I am looking for real world recommendation. Is Super DHEA overkill in this mix or will it help with energy? Is it really intelligent to mix Sup3r 1, 4, epi? If not which pair would be better for my goals 1,4 1, epi epi, 4 and with or without the DHEA cream? Looking for real world opinions from people who have used the compounds. I have naturally fairly low blood pressure, but LGD made me light headed and feel like crap the first week.

PS is there a better transdermal test base out there?

Thanks for any help

 

[Whisky]

Hey bro, I’m running my first cycle at the moment using 1/4/epiandro plus mk677....it’s in the cycle logs with everything set out so you can see dosing etc.....I checked it on here before I started so I know it’s solid.

From what I read and from my first 2 weeks I do think you need to stack them from the start. I’ve had a bit of lethargy even with the 4 and epi in there....wouldn’t fancy it without either tbh.

Southpawsd also running a log on these - couple of weeks ahead of me.

I’m really enjoying it btw good first ph stack I think

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I’d just run them all together since you already have them. Aim for 6-8 weeks. As far as a transdermal test base, I wouldn’t see it as necessary imo since you already have the 4-andro which would convert into testosterone. I’d read up on clomid and nolva to see which you prefer; personally, clomid treats me better. 50/50/25/25 or 50/25/25/12.5 for clomid dosage

 

[SFreed]

My last was Sup3r 1 / Super Epi / Sup3r DHEA. Ran for 8 weeks. Pct was Clomid at 50/25/25/25/12.5/12.5 eod. Also had Ar1macare on cycle and AlphaMax after 2nd week of pct. Enjoyed it tremendously and will do it again at some point I'm sure.

I'd say run it all

 

[treukauf]

What dosing did you run for the sup3rs? Any sides? Thanks

 

[SFreed]

What dosing did you run for the sup3rs? Any sides? Thanks

Sup3r 1 was at 330, DHEA was 2 ml. Epi worked up to 1000, but I didn't notice much difference and dropped it back to 750 daily. Only issue I had was when I started pct. 50 mg Clomid didn't agree with me. Dropped down to 25 after 3 or 4 days and felt great. Other than that, absolutely zero sides. Strength was up, felt great for a guy my age

 

[SFreed]

Here's the log from when I ran it. I'll warn you ahead of time; it's a complete derail, with maybe 75 relevant posts. The rest is 54 pages of off color comments and pictures.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/288412-sfreeds-gettin-strong.html

 

[The_Old_Guy]

My cherry run was with 1-Andro and 4-AD (Sublingual from AMS). Just start with those two, IMO. The 4-AD will increase T (as a base) better than a TD DHEA product - since you are taking a drug any way (1-Andro), the 4-AD isn't going to cause any (much?) additional support damage (Liver Values, etc...).

Edit: Ok, just saw that you bought everything already - I'd still save the DHEA and Epi for later use if needed (ie. 4-AD solo isn't cutting it). I guess maybe the Epi is ok too, but if you are new, the fewest compounds the better, to start is the usual advice.

You did LGD before too? You just have Ostarine listed in the first part. No idea what Bioforge is - a Test Booster? Both LGD and Ostarine will tank Testosterone - what did you use as a base for those? How long ago? Did you PCT with a SERM? This stuff is actually way more mild than those SARMS - this stuff relies on two steps of enzymatic conversion to work - those SARMS went straight to the Androgen Receptors.

PCT with Clomid and/or Nolva is up to you - big debate on what is better, and if both together are overkill for 1-Andro/4-AD or at all.

You need health support supplements that cover at least Liver, Lipids, and maybe BP if your BP monitor starts getting high. Separates or All In One is up to you.

I mean really - if you've already taken Ostarine and LGD, you're stepping backward on the risk scale - I hope you didn't think SARMs were side effect minimal/free?

 

[treukauf]

Old guy. The Ostarine was when it first came out and everyone was swearing it wasnt suppressive haha. My friend had actually bought a bunch of it because he loved the energy. I ran a fairly small dose of supossedly powder ostarine, under 20mg(50mg for powder was rec dose on the bottle. Supposedly less absorbed in powder form). I ran it for 6 weeks. Added a natty pct and bioforge at the end. Zero sides. No noticed suppression awesome energy and leaned out with no change in diet. Maybe a little strength gains. Upon further research my friend had gotten it at a local muscle shop and i wonder if its really straight ostarine(i questioned the store and they said they have 3rd party testing). I really did enjoy taking it. Biotivio bioforge really works for me too. Its like popping a viagra every morning with a side of 1,3 d.

Thanks for your advice. What did you dose your 1,4 at and did you use clomid or nolva?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

If your Ostarine was legit, and you took 20mg/day - you were suppressed. See UncleSARM's blood work below. What you *felt* doesn't matter - tons of people feel great even when hypo-gonadal - I am one of them. But who knows, it was just as likely to be Rice Flower... they recco'd 50mg! on the product???...oh geez. No comment on natty Test Boosters after using drugs.

My stuff was sublingual - so no comparison can be made. Follow your label directions, which will probably mimic the 1-Andro study at 330mg. 4-AD is probably 220'ish? If you don't get lethargic, your 4-AD dosage is doing it's job.

I always used both SERMs to PCT: 25mg Clomid and 10mg Nolva for 6-8 weeks. The stuff is cheap enough, and the safety data for that short of a use is fine by me. YMMV - maybe you'll want to start watching Lifetime TV even at 25mg, in which case change something, LOL.

 

[treukauf]

Old guy, sorry i wasnt under the impression that osta didnt cause suppression. Ive read lots of posts on heavy suppression from it. I just got lucky. I wouldnt do it again with out a real serm. At that time the web was flooded with people saying it didnt cause suppression and could be used for a pct haha. Dont believe reps . For this cycle i will 100% do a serm. Have you had good luck with research liquids or do you go pharma grade only. Im leaning pharma after seeing lots of quality control or mislabeling issues.

 

[SouthPawSD]

Im currently running Sup3r 1 @ 440mg, Sup3r 4 @ 440, and Sup3r Epi @ 750-1250 (on rest day 750, started 1250 on workout days cuz of the PWO effect I get) and I am loving it. Strength is shoot through the roof. I'm also using Ari1macare Pro. I am having a really good recomping effect as well. I would say it is perfect for your goals. I chose this as my first cycle and I think it is worth every penny. My strength goals are way ahead of schedule of what I thought I would get. Start all from the beginning. I accidently ordered more than I thought or I would run it at 330mg vs 440.

IMO the Sup3r DHEA is only needed on this stack if you get super lethargic (or if you get some ALOT lol). I haven't experienced any lethargy other than when I dropped caffeine. 4 andro should be enough.

For PCT I am going to run Clomid at 50/25/25/12.5 along side Sup3r PCT, ARA and HMB. I'm logging as well like Whisky said.

Do it you won't regret it

 

[AntM1564]

My first run was 1/4 andro at 330 mg/day. I also used bps dermacrine as a base. I loved the results. A good increase in strength and scale weight, but with improved body composition. I had aromasin on hand for cycle and pct, but did not need it. My PCT was clomid and AlphaMax XT and I recovered fine, seen by bloodwork. You only need a SERM for your PCT, but it does not hurt to run a natty anabolic. AlphaMax XT will help control cortisol, increase libido, and testosterone. It is a very good first cycle in my opinion.

 

[JoePaul39]

Hey bro, I’m running my first cycle at the moment using 1/4/epiandro plus mk677....it’s in the cycle logs with everything set out so you can see dosing etc.....I checked it on here before I started so I know it’s solid.

From what I read and from my first 2 weeks I do think you need to stack them from the start. I’ve had a bit of lethargy even with the 4 and epi in there....wouldn’t fancy it without either tbh.

Southpawsd also running a log on these - couple of weeks ahead of me.

I’m really enjoying it btw good first ph stack I think

How much weight did you lose after your cycle during PCT?

 

[JoePaul39]

Sup3r 1 was at 330, DHEA was 2 ml. Epi worked up to 1000, but I didn't notice much difference and dropped it back to 750 daily. Only issue I had was when I started pct. 50 mg Clomid didn't agree with me. Dropped down to 25 after 3 or 4 days and felt great. Other than that, absolutely zero sides. Strength was up, felt great for a guy my age

Same question for you that I asked Whisky. I am running a similar cycle to what you ran, how much weight did you lose during PCT?

 

[Whisky]

How much weight did you lose after your cycle during PCT?

I was up 11lbs at one point - finished pct up 7lbs and same bf from when I started....

 

[JoePaul39]

Im currently running Sup3r 1 @ 440mg, Sup3r 4 @ 440, and Sup3r Epi @ 750-1250 (on rest day 750, started 1250 on workout days cuz of the PWO effect I get) and I am loving it. Strength is shoot through the roof. I'm also using Ari1macare Pro. I am having a really good recomping effect as well. I would say it is perfect for your goals. I chose this as my first cycle and I think it is worth every penny. My strength goals are way ahead of schedule of what I thought I would get. Start all from the beginning. I accidently ordered more than I thought or I would run it at 330mg vs 440.

IMO the Sup3r DHEA is only needed on this stack if you get super lethargic (or if you get some ALOT lol). I haven't experienced any lethargy other than when I dropped caffeine. 4 andro should be enough.

For PCT I am going to run Clomid at 50/25/25/12.5 along side Sup3r PCT, ARA and HMB. I'm logging as well like Whisky said.

Do it you won't regret it

I know I am a broken record, but how much weight did you lose during PCT?

 

[JoePaul39]

My first run was 1/4 andro at 330 mg/day. I also used bps dermacrine as a base. I loved the results. A good increase in strength and scale weight, but with improved body composition. I had aromasin on hand for cycle and pct, but did not need it. My PCT was clomid and AlphaMax XT and I recovered fine, seen by bloodwork. You only need a SERM for your PCT, but it does not hurt to run a natty anabolic. AlphaMax XT will help control cortisol, increase libido, and testosterone. It is a very good first cycle in my opinion.

How did your cycle turn out for you? Did you drop body fat percentage? How many pounds was your net gain after PCT and how many pounds of it did you lose during PCT?