Blood pressure?

[Bodyman17]

I'm running test blend 400 and tren E 200 1/2 cc twice week. I'm on week 4 and noticing my bp is slowly creeping up. I normally run 120/80 now I'm at 140/98. Is it possible the tren causing the high bp or test

 

[bigdavid]

They both can and will cause increased BP. All AAS has that side effect, with the degree between compounds varying for multiple factors (wet vs dry, more androgenic vs less so, etc). Assuming you stick to a cycle and stop for a period of a few months afterwards your BP should return to normal. I’ve had to use Rx BP meds on some harsher cycles myself.

 

[Bodyman17]

I'm thinking about dropping the tren and stay with test and see if that helps

 

[bigdavid]

I'm thinking about dropping the tren and stay with test and see if that helps

That’s a good idea. Out of the two the tren is most responsible.

 

[Bodyman17]

Yea it's making me feel like ****

 

[bigdavid]

Yea it's making me feel like ****

Yeah tren is a very uncomfortable compound. If you think about running it again I’d suggest getting tren-ace. Much shorter half life so you can fine tune the dose. More pinning but that’s the trade off. And since you get to higher blood concentrations faster you don’t have to run it as long as tren E

 

[Nac]

How much test in total you pinning? Lots of guys find running test at 200'sh mg per wk perfect with tren. May not improve BP but could well lessen the feeling-like-sh1t. Just something to consider.

 

[bigdavid]

How much test in total you pinning? Lots of guys find running test at 200'sh mg per wk perfect with tren. May not improve BP but could well lessen the feeling-like-sh1t. Just something to consider.

Yeah I have experimented and also found lower test (around 200 like you said) helpful with tren cycles. Tren is such a strong anabolic that running test at 200 vs 400 is largely inconsequential. Obv you would have less gains if you drop Test from like 800 to 200, but that is not super common (on this forum at least). Also idk if you are running a dopamine agonist but I used caber for one tren cycle and it made me feel even worse.

 

[Bodyman17]

I wonder if I could get some lisinopril quick

 

[Harry Manback]

They both can and will cause increased BP. All AAS has that side effect, with the degree between compounds varying for multiple factors (wet vs dry, more androgenic vs less so, etc). Assuming you stick to a cycle and stop for a period of a few months afterwards your BP should return to normal. I’ve had to use Rx BP meds on some harsher cycles myself.

YOU BETTER LISTEN TO THIS MOTHER F*CKER CUZ HES A MOTHER F*CKING DOCTOR!!!!!!!

 

[Bodyman17]

I'm try and get on low dose bp med so I can finish out my cycle. I just checked it again my bp is 136/99

 

[mike33511]

YOU BETTER LISTEN TO THIS MOTHER F*CKER CUZ HES A MOTHER F*CKING DOCTOR!!!!!!!

Grow up, dude.

 

[uprightrows]

I wonder if I could get some lisinopril quick

Yeah ask your doc if you can jump on an ACE inhibitor or an ARB, most physicians will readily prescribe those. Also not a well know fact but lisinopril actually lowers free test and raises SHBG, especially with long term administration, this might not be an issue if youre getting exogenous test, but something to keep in mind. Because of this I use selective beta blockers (metoprolol) to control BP on cycle, shouldn't effect your hormones but it is a little more complicated because you have to taper if you get off it.

 

[bigdavid]

Yeah ask your doc if you can jump on an ACE inhibitor or an ARB, most physicians will readily prescribe those. Also not a well know fact but lisinopril actually lowers free test and raises SHBG, especially with long term administration, this might not be an issue if youre getting exogenous test, but something to keep in mind. Because of this I use selective beta blockers (metoprolol) to control BP on cycle, shouldn't effect your hormones but it is a little more complicated because you have to taper if you get off it.

Interesting. I didn’t know that (re lowering free test). I too use beta blockers as that’s the only BP med that seems to work for me. Atenolol...but yeah it can be dangerous to stop abruptly. Beta blockers have the added benefit of helping with anxiety on tren. Doesn’t get rid of anxiety like benzodiazepines. But it helps with the compounding anxiety from racing heart and sweating when nervous, etc.

 

[uprightrows]

Interesting. I didn’t know that (re lowering free test). I too use beta blockers as that’s the only BP med that seems to work for me. Atenolol...but yeah it can be dangerous to stop abruptly. Beta blockers have the added benefit of helping with anxiety on tren. Doesn’t get rid of anxiety like benzodiazepines. But it helps with the compounding anxiety from racing heart and sweating when nervous, etc.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9877521 if you want to read up more on lisinopri side effects.

Atenolol is good as well, it's basically a shorter half life version of metoprolol so you probably need BID dosing. Also, I'm not sure if it alleviates any mental anxiety caused by tren, since it is tissue specific for cardiac tissue and unlike propranolol does not act on other beta cells. But it will definitely have the somatic effects of lower heart rate and possibly perspiration.

 

[bigdavid]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9877521 if you want to read up more on lisinopri side effects.

Atenolol is good as well, it's basically a shorter half life version of metoprolol so you probably need BID dosing. Also, I'm not sure if it alleviates any mental anxiety caused by tren, since it is tissue specific for cardiac tissue and unlike propranolol does not act on other beta cells. But it will definitely have the somatic effects of lower heart rate and possibly perspiration.

Anxiety is linked to physiological parameters such as heart rate, shaking hands, sweating, etc. in this regard it decreases physical manifestations of anxiety and this biofeedback helps to reduce anxiety overall. And you got that backwards. Atenolol is once daily dosing. Metoprolol is twice daily.

 

[uprightrows]

hmm.. you might be right, I was thinking of the top of my head and was pretty sure atenolol had had shorter half and elimination time than metoprolol. I know my script for metoprolol is 25mg once at night

 

[bigdavid]

hmm.. you might be right, I was thinking of the top of my head and was pretty sure atenolol had had shorter half and elimination time than metoprolol. I know my script for metoprolol is 25mg once at night

I just double checked on clinpharm. But I’ve read a lot of comparative studies between beta blockers. Most people metabolize metoprolol with a half life of around 3-4 hrs. Atenolol half life around 7 hrs. Some people metabolize metoprolol slower and it can get close to 6-7 hrs but that’s not as common. I’ve gotten prescribed both. Atenolol 50 once daily is equivalent to metoprolol 50 twice daily. Metoprolol once daily can still reduce blood pressure obviously but it doesn’t last 24 hrs like atenolol does.

 

[bigdavid]

Metoprolol also has much higher cns penetration than atenolol. That fact alone is why atenolol is usually used first for BP. less central side effects. Also easier dosing

 

[uprightrows]

Maybe you weren't looking at the ER/succinate preparation

 

[bigdavid]

Maybe you weren't looking at the ER/succinate preparation

View attachment 156137

Well that’s cheating. Because there is an ER version for almost every drug lol. I only tend to care about regular versions.

 

[criticalbench]

I would personally opt for an alpha beta blocker like coreg to increase and control the hearts contraction from the beta blockage but also get the peripheral alpha blockage.. also at higher doses it provides a calcium channel response and also provides a potent antioxidant effect on the coronaries.

Lisinopril would NOT be my first ACE choice.. more along the lines of my last. HCTZ might be a better option but you don't no the source of your hypertension. If your BP got that high off of those doses.. you need to stop.

Something just isn't right and 200mg/wk of tren shouldn't do it unless you have altered kidney function. You might be retaining fluid from altered kidney function that the tren exacerbated.

 

[Bodyman17]

I checked it tonight after the gym it's creeping down now 134/88. It seems it spikes the first fees days after injections then begins to fall back down.

 

[Georgiepecker]

Just for reference I had my blood pressure at 144/90 for a few months from taking fat burners and pre workout...after stopping and starting TRT I have been around 113/65. Anyways, I didn’t suffer much side effects at 144 so If you can make it through cycle I assume you’ll have a healthy blood pressure after. Just watch it and note any side effects you feel( my ears were always hot, heart always pumping). Even feeling that way I trained like that daily for 2-3 months and never had anything bad happen.

 

[Nac]

Just for reference I had my blood pressure at 144/90 for a few months from taking fat burners and pre workout...after stopping and starting TRT I have been around 113/65. Anyways, I didn’t suffer much side effects at 144 so If you can make it through cycle I assume you’ll have a healthy blood pressure after. Just watch it and note any side effects you feel( my ears were always hot, heart always pumping). Even feeling that way I trained like that daily for 2-3 months and never had anything bad happen.

No.

Dont just accept high BP on-cycle. And dont accept it just cos you didnt have any other symptoms.

If you plan on doing this sh1t longterm, as in many cycles over time, you need to be proactive with minimising high BP.

 

[Georgiepecker]

No.

Dont just accept high BP on-cycle. And dont accept it just cos you didnt have any other symptoms.

If you plan on doing this sh1t longterm, as in many cycles over time, you need to be proactive with minimising high BP.

i had 3 doctors tell me 144 blood pressure consistent wasn’t a probably based on how I was feeling / performing, and that is why I didn’t treat it.

The obvious best choice is to treat it and not have it so high. I didn’t do that though.

 

[Nac]

i had 3 doctors tell me 144 blood pressure consistent wasn’t a probably based on how I was feeling / performing, and that is why I didn’t treat it.

The obvious best choice is to treat it and not have it so high. I didn’t do that though.

Yes.

Thing is, using AAS, we have to draw the line somewhere. We have to have some objective point where we go "ok this is unacceptable". Where that point is will depend on lots of factors. Personally, Im not too concerned if my systolic hits low-mid 140s...if my diastolic stays under 80. But thats because I know what my healthy base numbers are, and so I have a line beyond which I will find unacceptable.

Generally speaking I find most guys do absolutely jacksh1t for heart health. As in, diet, supps, meds, hydration. They pay it lip service but because its such a "quiet" thing (unless experiencing symptoms), it typically comes down to "she'll be right, bro".

Sorry to pounce on your post, but whenever I get the oppurtunity to encourage CV health I take it.

 

[Georgiepecker]

Yes.

Thing is, using AAS, we have to draw the line somewhere. We have to have some objective point where we go "ok this is unacceptable". Where that point is will depend on lots of factors. Personally, Im not too concerned if my systolic hits low-mid 140s...if my diastolic stays under 80. But thats because I know what my healthy base numbers are, and so I have a line beyond which I will find unacceptable.

Generally speaking I find most guys do absolutely jacksh1t for heart health. As in, diet, supps, meds, hydration. They pay it lip service but because its such a "quiet" thing (unless experiencing symptoms), it typically comes down to "she'll be right, bro".

Sorry to pounce on your post, but whenever I get the oppurtunity to encourage CV health I take it.

I agree with you aswell.

 

[Harry Manback]

Grow up, dude.

Doesn't concern you.

 

[criticalbench]

i had 3 doctors tell me 144 blood pressure consistent wasn’t a probably based on how I was feeling / performing, and that is why I didn’t treat it.

The obvious best choice is to treat it and not have it so high. I didn’t do that though.

Bro.. I work in healthcare.. I worked in cardiology for a while as well.. wtf doc told you that.. especially being a weight lifter.. a pressure in the 140s and coupled with the strain of isolated elevations during training places any athlete at significant risk of cardiac remodeling.

Whatever docs were telling you that most likely just didn't want to deal with you.. which is pretty sad. You can never judge an arterial pressure off of how you feel.. ive seen patients with pulse pressures in the 80s, and 20s, total pressures of 200/160 with zero side effects.. hell, most don't feel anything from hypertension.. its not until compensation occurs via the contractility that you actually notice anything..and that is a later sign.

 

[Georgiepecker]

Bro.. I work in healthcare.. I worked in cardiology for a while as well.. wtf doc told you that.. especially being a weight lifter.. a pressure in the 140s and coupled with the strain of isolated elevations during training places any athlete at significant risk of cardiac remodeling.

Whatever docs were telling you that most likely just didn't want to deal with you.. which is pretty sad. You can never judge an arterial pressure off of how you feel.. ive seen patients with pulse pressures in the 80s, and 20s, total pressures of 200/160 with zero side effects.. hell, most don't feel anything from hypertension.. its not until compensation occurs via the contractility that you actually notice anything..and that is a later sign.

Yeah I even brought it up multiple time, and that coupled with a high fasted blood sugar as well. No significant response from them unfortunately, I know when I stop all supplementation I return to around 115/65 and that is on TRT even.