T3, why some say yes it's awesome and some say don't touch it ?

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  1. MK-667, HH6 may be enough to hold off any muscle wastage?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post
    MK-667, HH6 may be enough to hold off any muscle wastage?
    Or sufficient pro intake.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post
    MK-667, HH6 may be enough to hold off any muscle wastage?
    Easily, I would think. In fact, if I were to subscribe a good "natty-like" fat-burning stack to someone, I'd have them take:

    Somatozine @ 25mg/day
    T3 @ 50mcg/day
    ECA @ 25/100/81, 2-3 times per day

    And 60 minutes fasted cardio daily w/ 1.75-2g protein per lb of mass, carbs from veggies only, & a healthy portion of MCT/EFA's. That right there would shred anyone quick in about 6 weeks.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Easily, I would think. In fact, if I were to subscribe a good "natty-like" fat-burning stack to someone, I'd have them take:

    Somatozine @ 25mg/day
    T3 @ 50mcg/day
    ECA @ 25/100/81, 2-3 times per day

    And 60 minutes fasted cardio daily w/ 1.75-2g protein per lb of mass, carbs from veggies only, & a healthy portion of MCT/EFA's. That right there would shred anyone quick in about 6 weeks.
    Do you generally include the aspirin for each dose of ECA? I usually don't take the aspirin since a descent dose of fish oil once a day has a similar effect physiologically. Though I suppose it doesn't hurt to include it.

    Also why only 100 mg caffeine? Do you find that ratio works better vs 200 mg per dose? (I do 25/200... would 50/200 be any different?)

  5. I am currently on DNA MK677 at 30 mg pre bed with 200mcg huperzine a and 3 g melatonin, is Somatozine available for shipping to UK.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    Do you generally include the aspirin for each dose of ECA? I usually don't take the aspirin since a descent dose of fish oil once a day has a similar effect physiologically. Though I suppose it doesn't hurt to include it.

    Also why only 100 mg caffeine? Do you find that ratio works better vs 200 mg per dose? (I do 25/200... would 50/200 be any different?)
    Yes, fish oils, white willow bark, nattokinase or even Vit K complex would be ok to replace aspirin with but I'd pick Natto or Fish oils first. I also would recommend 2-4g of Taurine with anything that potentially fiddles with the heart, such as Ephedrine, Clen or Albuterol.

    As for the caffeine, if you don't already have a tolerance to it, I'd start at lower doses b/c after all, what is 200mg going to do that 100mg wouldn't also do? I'd rather take more Ephedrine than bump the caffeine to 200mg from the start. Obviously, this depends on tolerance but ideally, we start with those doses above ^^^ and work our way up to 50mg Ephedrine and 200mg caffeine per dose.

    Fish oils in place of Aspirin is fine too. But remember, I'm suggesting baby Aspirin, not a full dose.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by paul56778 View Post
    I am currently on DNA MK677 at 30 mg pre bed with 200mcg huperzine a and 3 g melatonin, is Somatozine available for shipping to UK.
    Ask Mike Arnold, but I would bet yes.

  8. I have taken T3 for 4 weeks and several times for 3 months. If your on AAS you can ramp up to 100mcgs you will sweat like a mad man at night
    ....
    However, I have my best results at 62.5mcgs. yes It is catabolic if you aren't on gear and eating lean. Only take when doing a cut cycle for the summer or if your doing bulk cycle in the winter to enhance protein metabolism.

    Best,
    Jimpro

  9. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    nattokinase or even Vit K complex would be ok to replace aspirin with but I'd pick Natto or Fish oils first..
    Interesting.... I was surprised to see that they inhibited prostaglandins as well....

  10. I have been off T3 for a month now, this is now week 5 off t3 for me, i dropped it cold turkey from a 3 month run, overall i feel fine now, 1st few days to 1 week were rough and i felt sluggish but feel normal now, also have not had any rebound weight gain or fat increase but have been dieting / in a cut for past month to prevent that from occurring.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by CatSnake View Post
    Interesting.... I was surprised to see that they inhibited prostaglandins as well....
    That is the main pathway that aspirin takes to inhibit pain, reduce fever and control blood clotting (thins the blood). I'm not sure that Natto takes the same mechanism of action though.

    https://www.drsinatra.com/lower-your...th-nattokinase

    The doctor on that website link above says you can take 100mg Natto daily with 81mg of Aspirin for enhanced effect on BP since they each take a different pathway and reduce blood pressure in different ways. According to that article, Aspirin makes the platelets less sticky while Natto basically does what plasmin would normally do in the body, which is to break down the enzyme responsible for excessive blood clotting.

    Something I didn't know though is that as we age, our body loses its ability to produce adequate amounts of plasmin, making us more at risk of excessive clotting as we age.

    The two key ways steroids increase BP is through excessive red blood cell formation, causing thickness and excessive clotting and increased sodium retention in the blood, again causing thicker, denser blood.

    My personal thought is to take Natto and Dandelion Root & LIv52. Those three combined keeps your BP in check by reducing clotting, thinning the blood a little bit and keeping the liver and kidneys highly functional even in the midst of methylated steroids. The only other required piece is to drink at minimum a gallon of water per day but preferably about a gallon per 100lbs of lean mass.

    Natto @ 100mg/day (recommended dose on bottle)
    Dandelion @ 3 grams per day (1500mg X 2)
    Liv52 @ 6-9 tablets per day
    1 gallon of water per 100lbs of lean mass

    Rarely do people have more than 200lbs of lean mass but in those cases, 2G is totally reasonable. I generally try to get 1.5G per day to keep my kidneys flushed out.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    That is the main pathway that aspirin takes to inhibit pain, reduce fever and control blood clotting (thins the blood). I'm not sure that Natto takes the same mechanism of action though.

    https://www.drsinatra.com/lower-your...th-nattokinase

    The doctor on that website link above says you can take 100mg Natto daily with 81mg of Aspirin for enhanced effect on BP since they each take a different pathway and reduce blood pressure in different ways. According to that article, Aspirin makes the platelets less sticky while Natto basically does what plasmin would normally do in the body, which is to break down the enzyme responsible for excessive blood clotting.

    Something I didn't know though is that as we age, our body loses its ability to produce adequate amounts of plasmin, making us more at risk of excessive clotting as we age.

    The two key ways steroids increase BP is through excessive red blood cell formation, causing thickness and excessive clotting and increased sodium retention in the blood, again causing thicker, denser blood.

    My personal thought is to take Natto and Dandelion Root & LIv52. Those three combined keeps your BP in check by reducing clotting, thinning the blood a little bit and keeping the liver and kidneys highly functional even in the midst of methylated steroids. The only other required piece is to drink at minimum a gallon of water per day but preferably about a gallon per 100lbs of lean mass.

    Natto @ 100mg/day (recommended dose on bottle)
    Dandelion @ 3 grams per day (1500mg X 2)
    Liv52 @ 6-9 tablets per day
    1 gallon of water per 100lbs of lean mass

    Rarely do people have more than 200lbs of lean mass but in those cases, 2G is totally reasonable. I generally try to get 1.5G per day to keep my kidneys flushed out.
    thanks for the info , so u think that would be sufficient enough that u don't have to donate blood ?
    also I'm doing the female hormone panel blood work before I start my cycle and it says metabolic profile it includes TSH is that good enough to have an idea of thyroid levels before u start a cycle ?

  13. Quote Originally Posted by hamdysayed View Post
    thanks for the info , so u think that would be sufficient enough that u don't have to donate blood ?
    also I'm doing the female hormone panel blood work before I start my cycle and it says metabolic profile it includes TSH is that good enough to have an idea of thyroid levels before u start a cycle ?
    Unfortunately TSH only isn't adequate to understand your thyroid health.

    High TSH but normal to low T4/T3 levels indicates primary hypothyroidism. Low to normal TSH with high T4/T3 levels indicates secondary hypothyroidism which just means that something you are taking is suppressing TSH because it is raising active thyroid. An example of this scenario is taking exogenous T3. Low TSH and low T4/T3 could mean pituitary issues, which is concerning and troublesome.

    You need all three at least and even better is to have reverse T3 in there as well.

    As for the supps I mentioned above being enough to not have to give blood, it really depends on genetics. If I had seen a few dozen people doing before and after tests with those supps while on steroids, I could definitively tell you so but I can't cause that data doesn't exist. You need to do the CBC test, which is in that female test you mentioned. That is the only way to know for sure. That said, I've heard of natto supplementation alone lowering hematocrit by 3-4% >>> that could be enough to keep you at the edge of normal, which is acceptable for long periods of time.

    The other variable is the type of steroid and the dose and length of cycle. Those supps with test only at moderate doses for moderate lengths of time...perhaps it is fine. Perhaps it is plenty. Hard to know for sure until you test. If running Test/Tren/EQ/Anadrol? Absolutely not in the slightest. You'll need to consider almost all options to keep the blood healthy.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Unfortunately TSH only isn't adequate to understand your thyroid health.

    High TSH but normal to low T4/T3 levels indicates primary hypothyroidism. Low to normal TSH with high T4/T3 levels indicates secondary hypothyroidism which just means that something you are taking is suppressing TSH because it is raising active thyroid. An example of this scenario is taking exogenous T3. Low TSH and low T4/T3 could mean pituitary issues, which is concerning and troublesome.

    You need all three at least and even better is to have reverse T3 in there as well.

    As for the supps I mentioned above being enough to not have to give blood, it really depends on genetics. If I had seen a few dozen people doing before and after tests with those supps while on steroids, I could definitively tell you so but I can't cause that data doesn't exist. You need to do the CBC test, which is in that female test you mentioned. That is the only way to know for sure. That said, I've heard of natto supplementation alone lowering hematocrit by 3-4% >>> that could be enough to keep you at the edge of normal, which is acceptable for long periods of time.

    The other variable is the type of steroid and the dose and length of cycle. Those supps with test only at moderate doses for moderate lengths of time...perhaps it is fine. Perhaps it is plenty. Hard to know for sure until you test. If running Test/Tren/EQ/Anadrol? Absolutely not in the slightest. You'll need to consider almost all options to keep the blood healthy.
    I see, I'll be running 60 mg anavar and transdermal bold base 200mg per ml and test base 100 mg per ml dmso, will do mid cycle bloodwork to check on blood count to be safe.
    so which thyroid test u would recommend

  15. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Unfortunately TSH only isn't adequate to understand your thyroid health.

    High TSH but normal to low T4/T3 levels indicates primary hypothyroidism. Low to normal TSH with high T4/T3 levels indicates secondary hypothyroidism which just means that something you are taking is suppressing TSH because it is raising active thyroid. An example of this scenario is taking exogenous T3. Low TSH and low T4/T3 could mean pituitary issues, which is concerning and troublesome.

    You need all three at least and even better is to have reverse T3 in there as well.

    As for the supps I mentioned above being enough to not have to give blood, it really depends on genetics. If I had seen a few dozen people doing before and after tests with those supps while on steroids, I could definitively tell you so but I can't cause that data doesn't exist. You need to do the CBC test, which is in that female test you mentioned. That is the only way to know for sure. That said, I've heard of natto supplementation alone lowering hematocrit by 3-4% >>> that could be enough to keep you at the edge of normal, which is acceptable for long periods of time.

    The other variable is the type of steroid and the dose and length of cycle. Those supps with test only at moderate doses for moderate lengths of time...perhaps it is fine. Perhaps it is plenty. Hard to know for sure until you test. If running Test/Tren/EQ/Anadrol? Absolutely not in the slightest. You'll need to consider almost all options to keep the blood healthy.
    For an 8 week TD test/bold/tren cycle what can you do to keep blood healthy, not talking about regular on-cycle support supps?

    Apologies for hijacking the thread

    Great info in here!

  16. Quote Originally Posted by hamdysayed View Post
    I see, I'll be running 60 mg anavar and transdermal bold base 200mg per ml and test base 100 mg per ml dmso, will do mid cycle bloodwork to check on blood count to be safe.
    so which thyroid test u would recommend
    TSH and free T4 should be fine. Some endos also do total T4 and T3. But TSH and Free T4 are adequate for diagnosing any thyroid issue usually.
    But to be comprehensive, assuming it doesn’t cost you extra if insurance covers it, do:

    TSH
    T4
    Free T4
    T3
    (Free T3 If you want to be extra anal about it lol)

  17. Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    TSH and free T4 should be fine. Some endos also do total T4 and T3. But TSH and Free T4 are adequate for diagnosing any thyroid issue usually.
    But to be comprehensive, assuming it doesn’t cost you extra if insurance covers it, do:

    TSH
    T4
    Free T4
    T3
    (Free T3 If you want to be extra anal about it lol)
    man thyroid tests kinda expensive I'm doing the private md!!!!

  18. Quote Originally Posted by hamdysayed View Post
    man thyroid tests kinda expensive I'm doing the private md!!!!
    Honestly people will disagree but as a “screening” tool TSH by itself is fine. If you don’t have symptoms and your TSH is normal then you are fine. If your TSH comes back abnormal or borderline then get more tests. But it’s not worth the $ since you are paying for it yourself

  19. Quote Originally Posted by hamdysayed View Post
    thanks for the info , so u think that would be sufficient enough that u don't have to donate blood ?
    also I'm doing the female hormone panel blood work before I start my cycle and it says metabolic profile it includes TSH is that good enough to have an idea of thyroid levels before u start a cycle ?
    Donating blood is good for you. There is really no reason not to do it unless your hematocrit or iron is low.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    Honestly people will disagree but as a “screening” tool TSH by itself is fine. If you don’t have symptoms and your TSH is normal then you are fine. If your TSH comes back abnormal or borderline then get more tests. But it’s not worth the $ since you are paying for it yourself
    well I'm only doing it so I can have reference to my levels after t3 cycle is done.
    I feel great now

  21. Quote Originally Posted by mike33511 View Post
    Donating blood is good for you. There is really no reason not to do it unless your hematocrit or iron is low.
    I'll doit mid cycle

  22. Quote Originally Posted by hamdysayed View Post
    well I'm only doing it so I can have reference to my levels after t3 cycle is done.
    I feel great now
    In that case just get the TSH and you can compare that to your future value and how you feel. Just assume your levels of T3 and T4 are normal and if you have problems after you use T3 then you can spend money on additional tests if you need to.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by hamdysayed View Post
    I see, I'll be running 60 mg anavar and transdermal bold base 200mg per ml and test base 100 mg per ml dmso, will do mid cycle bloodwork to check on blood count to be safe.
    so which thyroid test u would recommend
    Complete Thyroid Panel. If you've been on a low carb diet or in a severe deficit, add reverse T3 to it.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Complete Thyroid Panel. If you've been on a low carb diet or in a severe deficit, add reverse T3 to it.
    what kind of problem could I experience ?

  25. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Complete Thyroid Panel. If you've been on a low carb diet or in a severe deficit, add reverse T3 to it.
    I can't afford that one right now, what possibly could go wrong after t3 cycle if everyone say it's safe ?
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