1st Epistane & M-drol Cycle

[Smiler]

Hello please bare with me because I'm new to this,

I've been researching the Epistane cycle for the last few weeks.

I came across a site that was selling a PH stack which was: Epistane, M-drol, Milk Thistle and Clomadex.

Should I just run the Epistane by its self because this is my first pro-hormone cycle or is it ok to run with the M-drol right away?

Also please can someone clear up what I should be using for cycle assistance?

Is Clomadex a good PCT?
Should I use a SARM alongside this?

As when reading multiple forums I'm seeing different answers.

Thanks in advance,
Smiler

 

[LAH813]

MDrol? Like the superdrol clone? If so, I wouldn't stack it with anything methylated. That **** is harsh enough without stacking it with another methyl.
No clomadex isn't a good pct. you need a serm.

What are your stats? Age?height?weight?BF%?

 

[Smiler]

When reading up on this I thought this would be the case but then I wondered why the site would sell it as a deal like that.

Should I just throw the Clomadex away completely?

Which SERM would you advise and at what dosage?

Age: 23
Weight: 84kg
Height: 5ft 7

Body Fat %
Chest: 5.2
Abdomen: 22.2
Thigh: 11.4
Triceps: 7.4
Subscapular: 14.2
Suparilic: 11.8
Midaxillary: 10.6
OVERALL: 11.15

Thank you,
Smiler

 

[LAH813]

So depending on your goals you can either run the Epi or the MD, I wouldn't run them both. Epi is more dry and lean, MD is gonna be more wet and bulky.
As far as the clomadex, it's not great but you can run it alongside your SERM in PcT.
I recommend Clomid pct. 5 weeks at 25/25/12.5/12.5/12.5
Some people run it 50/50/25/25 for 4 weeks, but I always felt better at lower doses for longer.

 

[Smiler]

I think I'm going to go with the Epistane I'm looking to cut up and shred more than anything so dry look would be better.

I've seen people run 20/20/40/40/60/60
And other who run 40 all the way through which would be better?

I'll get some Clomid sorted cheers mate.

What supplements should I take whilst on the cycle: I've got Milk Thistle for liver and Fish oils for joints along with BCAA's is there anything else I should be having in there.

Sorry that I have some many questions I'd rather get everything right because I start this ****.
Much appreciated,
Smiler

 

[LAH813]

You're good bro. That's what this forum is for.

So when I ran Epi I ran it at 40/60/60/60/40/40
I'm a believer in tapering up and down on everything.
Those sups look fine. You could grab some NAC for on cycle as well. Good for your liver.
Tudca is nice post cycle but not an essential if you have NAC. Fish oil will be fine for your joints, Epi is tough on joints so you could grab some glucosamine as well if need be.
Do you have an AI for pct? Like exemestane or adex? You won't need it on cycle, but post cycle your estrogen could rebound. I'd have one on hand just in case.

 

[LAH813]

Also, are you planning on doing pre and post cycle bloods?

 

[APC80]

I take it it's German Pharmaceuticals Epi? You'll prob need to go work up to 60mg I did when I ran it. Start at either 20 or 40 the first week to see how your body responds tho. Drink tons of water and you'll be good. Side effects for me were minimal, slight lethargy at times and mouth dry as **** in the morning was about it.

 

[Smiler]

I'll look into buying some Exemestane it's seems kind of expensive but if it stops me getting Gyno then I don't care! How long is this ran for and what dosage?

So I'm going to go with:

Epi cycle: 40/60/60/60/40/40
Along with NAC, fish oils, milk thistle and glucosamine (should these support supps run over into PCT)

PCT: Clomid 25/25/12.5/12.5/12.5
Alongside Clomadex (might aswell use it)
And an AI?

By that do you mean blood tests? No I didn't even consider that should I?

Can't wait to start and see some big gains!

Cheers,
Smiler

 

[Smiler]

Yeah it is the German Pharma, how was it? Did you see some good changes mate?

 

[APC80]

It's ok, not many side effects as I said. Don't be expecting to get huge on it. It's very mild you'll get some small strength and size gains.

 

[LAH813]

I'll look into buying some Exemestane it's seems kind of expensive but if it stops me getting Gyno then I don't care! How long is this ran for and what dosage?

So I'm going to go with:

Epi cycle: 40/60/60/60/40/40
Along with NAC, fish oils, milk thistle and glucosamine (should these support supps run over into PCT)

PCT: Clomid 25/25/12.5/12.5/12.5
Alongside Clomadex (might aswell use it)
And an AI?

By that do you mean blood tests? No I didn't even consider that should I?

Can't wait to start and see some big gains!

Cheers,
Smiler

Yeah I'd start your support sups the week before your cycle then run them into pct. AI- Aromitase Inhibitor/ exemestane. You can get it pretty cheap at ***************************** they're a board sponsor and have a 35% sale right now. You don't have to do bloods, but if you want to know what's going on with your body I recommend them for every cycles you do. But it's your choice.
As far as dosing for the exemestane, I usually just go by feel. If my nips start to feel sore I'll add it in. Sometimes I won't even have to use it. Just depends.

 

[APC80]

Don't let me put ya off the epi mate it's not bad. You don't wanna run something too suppressive your first time anyway. You'll get some gains plus get yourself ready for the harder stuff, PCT practice I suppose you could call it. I'm glad I did it as I'll feel more confident now about using stronger orals.

 

[Smiler]

I just need to buy a few more things are I'm ready to go..

Thanks mate but I'm from the UK a little look around online.


APC did you see a impressive body fat loss and ripping up from it?

 

[Smiler]

Don't let me put ya off the epi mate it's not bad. You don't wanna run something too suppressive your first time anyway. You'll get some gains plus get yourself ready for the harder stuff, PCT practice I suppose you could call it. I'm glad I did it as I'll feel more confident now about using stronger orals.

Yeah I know what you're saying mate don't expect to much from my first cycle right?

My diet is going to perfect and I'll be training hard as normal.

Thanks for the tip, what did you move on to after Epi?

 

[APC80]

I used it at the end of a bulk and was eating around 3800-4000 kcal a day so I looked a hell of a lot bigger at the end. Put on 13lbs, most of it in the first 3 weeks, ran it for 5. Scale was going up a pound a day at one point, lots of glycogen retention and some fat gain as well tho due to all the food I was shoving down my throat. Wether you rip up or bulk up will depend on your diet more than anything.

It'll dry you out so you'll look leaner if you're already reasonably lean. One thing I will say is I didn't look fat at the end like I would if I'd been eating those calories without drugs.

 

[APC80]

Yeah I know what you're saying mate don't expect to much from my first cycle right?

My diet is going to perfect and I'll be training hard as normal.

Thanks for the tip, what did you move on to after Epi?

About to start GP megatren this week, looking forward to seeing what it does. You got your PCT sorted? I used nolva for 3 weeks but I dunno if it was that necessary.

 

[Smiler]

I'm going to be running a very strict diet and no alcohol whilst on the cycle going to run for six weeks.

Good luck with the megatren!

For PCT I'm just using Clomid and an AI, along with the Clomadex that I stupidly bought as part of a stack deal.

Thanks,
Smiler

 

[APC80]

Cheers good luck with the epi. Let us know how it goes I'd be interested to hear how it treats ya.

The clomadex has arimistane in it which should help control cortisol and it'll dry you out to keep any post cycle bloat down so it's not a complete waste imo.

 

[Smiler]

I'll probably do a log on here and do some before and after photos.

Thats useful I hate being bloated.

I'll keep you posted mate, cheers!

 

[Smiler]

It might be hard for me to get hold of Clomid can't this be subsituted for Nolva?

 

[AnabolicGuru]

It might be hard for me to get hold of Clomid can't this be subsituted for Nolva?

Either will work. I'd personally only use an aromatize inhibitor if you feel that you need it, and if you do, start at a lower dose so you don't crash it right away

 

[LAH813]

Either will work. I'd personally only use an aromatize inhibitor if you feel that you need it, and if you do, start at a lower dose so you don't crash it right away

This.
If you're going with Nolva do

20/20/10/10/5 for pct.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

I take it it's German Pharmaceuticals Epi? You'll prob need to go work up to 60mg I did when I ran it. Start at either 20 or 40 the first week to see how your body responds tho. Drink tons of water and you'll be good. Side effects for me were minimal, slight lethargy at times and mouth dry as **** in the morning was about it.

I am running German Pharma M-drol (10mg DMZ caps) and their Epi 20 (20mg Epi caps).

Lift, eat, hydrate... GP is clean, low sides, gtg. Bit of lethargy, take nap, take a stim drink.

 

[APC80]

I am running German Pharma M-drol (10mg DMZ caps) and their Epi 20 (20mg Epi caps).

Lift, eat, hydrate... GP is clean, low sides, gtg. Bit of lethargy, take nap, take a stim drink.

Thanks for the advice mate. Aye I was surprised I didn't get worse sides on their epi the GP stuff seems to be good that way.

I have a bottle of their mdrol but decided to start the megatren instead. How's the cycle going so far?

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Thanks for the advice mate. Aye I was surprised I didn't get worse sides on their epi the GP stuff seems to be good that way.

I have a bottle of their mdrol but decided to start the megatren instead. How's the cycle going so far?

Cycle is going well. I feel 'full and pumped' like I normally do on DMZ. I like the clean feeling of just the DMZ, but I started with Blackstone s Super DMZ 2 ~2 years ago... I prefer the DMZ + EPI Combo German Pharma. I run TUDCA and NAC, Milk Thistle daily (Nutricost, LeCheek cycle armor). Liver ALT enzyme values are only slightly elevated for a few weeks post cycle like in the 60-80 range, past few times.

I have some RAD-140 coming in the mail to with the Armistane for PCT and just cause and Also some MK-677. After this PH cycle ends, before the SARM switch I'll get post cycle bloods, maybe follow up if I remember on the board.

Anyway, their M-Drol (DMZ) alone adds weight on me. Even at low dose (I don''t ramp just take it like daily pre-workout in AM with snack). Which I like. In general between BSL and GP, I've gone from 170lbs and 20% BF at 6'2" to 210lbs and 17% BF. Now this is several cycles, over past 1.5-2 years, with some injuries, a new kid along the way, etc... Not too shabby though.

I've messed with Tren a bit, but not a full cycle yet. Still have half of bottle of Blackstone Super Trenabol (plain Trenavar) I'll stack with GP M-Drol sometime here soon.

 

[APC80]

Took the first pill this morning myself, with alphaform tudca and shark labs cycle assist. Gonna go the first week at 2 caps a day and seeing how it goes I'll prob go up to 3 then 4. Dunno how important the tudca is atm seeing I'm only dosing 10mg msten but I'd rather be safe than sorry. I'll prob put a review of megatren up here when I'm done. Mdrol and Trenavar would be a great cycle wish I'd thought of that lol

Did you have any prolactin issues at all on Trenavar, leaky nips or whatever?

 

[Smiler]

I am running German Pharma M-drol (10mg DMZ caps) and their Epi 20 (20mg Epi caps).

Lift, eat, hydrate... GP is clean, low sides, gtg. Bit of lethargy, take nap, take a stim drink.

Are you running these at the same time or bridging the epi after?

Isn't two meth based PH's bad on the liver?

 

[Sphinx12]

Are you running these at the same time or bridging the epi after?

Isn't two meth based PH's bad on the liver?

I believe GP have Mdrol (DMZ) and Epi in a stack to run it as a bridge, Mdrol weeks 1-4, Epi weeks 3-6.

With good liver support, the 2 weeks on both should not be a significant issue.

 

[APC80]

Are you running these at the same time or bridging the epi after?

Isn't two meth based PH's bad on the liver?

You could run low dose Trenavar with your epi if you're worried about your liver. I'd say 40-60mg on top of epi would give insane strength gains. Seeing you're looking to cut up it would be better than stacking it with mdrol.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Took the first pill this morning myself, with alphaform tudca and shark labs cycle assist. Gonna go the first week at 2 caps a day and seeing how it goes I'll prob go up to 3 then 4. Dunno how important the tudca is atm seeing I'm only dosing 10mg msten but I'd rather be safe than sorry. I'll prob put a review of megatren up here when I'm done. Mdrol and Trenavar would be a great cycle wish I'd thought of that lol

Did you have any prolactin issues at all on Trenavar, leaky nips or whatever?

I've not had any gyno/prolactin issues with other PH thus far... but I haven't done enough Tren, I'll let you know round 2 here. I also religously use Armistane (Ad-3 PCT by LeCheek) as an AI to supress or kill estrogen.

Liver support and blood pressure support are totally needed. Before & after cycle blood testing has proven that for the past 2 years, TUDCA + LeCheek cycle support is totally worth it. Without it a basic Halodrol cycle would blow up my ALT liver enzymes into the 300+ range. Now with liver cleansers as such, after a solid 4-5 week cycle I'm only like 70-80 in value (normal range for ALT 25-55). After 4 weeks ALT is back down to normal, keep taking liver cleanse during PCT... Takes awhile for the levels to restore, pee to return from bright orange-yellow back to clear.

Also all these PH will suppress, I find for me takes between 4-6 weeks after cycle (using AI + test booster) for my free Test levels to return to 400-500 ng/mL. Right after a M1AD or DMZ Cycle they can be supresse dto 20-40, not as low as injectables to pure zero-0 free T, but still...

I'm thinking I'll start doing the 4-Andro or RAD-140, SARM to provide a Test base to keep or kick on the gonads during or at end of my PH cycles. I'm just a minimalist and have avoided thus far.

Like Mature Muscle and Fitness fellow says on YouTube, "dose low, lift, and grow" or something like that.

Let me know how it goes. I like to take it with pre-workout drink, do warm up cardio, and hit the weights after.

 

[APC80]

1st Epistane & M-drol Cycle

Good to know the tudca I bought was worth the money, think I'll grab another bottle to see me through pct. Have pharma grade tamoxifen and BLR rebirth for pct.
Smiler forgot to mention get a good fish oil. I use Nordic oil you can get it on amazon uk it's prob the highest EPA and dha you can find, great value and tastes fine. I quadrupled the dose on epi and had no problem at all with dry joints, drank tons of water as well but you'll do that anyway with the dry mouth it gives ya.

 

[Smiler]

Good to know the tudca I bought was worth the money, think I'll grab another bottle to see me through pct. Have pharma grade tamoxifen and BLR rebirth for pct.
Smiler forgot to mention get a good fish oil. I use Nordic oil you can get it on amazon uk it's prob the highest EPA and dha you can find, great value and tastes fine. I quadrupled the dose on epi and had no problem at all with dry joints, drank tons of water as well but you'll do that anyway with the dry mouth it gives ya.

I've got some already mate but I'll keep that in mind for next time thank you!

The rest of my goods arrived today so all set to start the cycle tomorrow won't be doing a log but I will take photos to start and every week to see progress.

Here we go,
Smiler

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

You could run low dose Trenavar with your epi if you're worried about your liver. I'd say 40-60mg on top of epi would give insane strength gains. Seeing you're looking to cut up it would be better than stacking it with mdrol.

So wait, I'm on DMZ + Epi right now... So I taper off DMZ weeks 3-4, keep on Epi and Tren for weeks 4-7? I also am heading to cut land after the DMZ here...

Then go PCT Ostarine + Armistane, before a rest period (natural T recovery) and next cycle. I also have some BLR Rebirth (Ellagic Acid, E. Cottonii) SERM if needed... and those Fenugreek/Tribulus test boosters, but I think those are more placebo for me.

 

[APC80]

So wait, I'm on DMZ + Epi right now... So I taper off DMZ weeks 3-4, keep on Epi and Tren for weeks 4-7? I also am heading to cut land after the DMZ here...

Then go PCT Ostarine + Armistane, before a rest period (natural T recovery) and next cycle. I also have some BLR Rebirth (Ellagic Acid, E. Cottonii) SERM if needed... and those Fenugreek/Tribulus test boosters, but I think those are more placebo for me.

You're using osta during PCT?

 

[APC80]

I've got some already mate but I'll keep that in mind for next time thank you!

The rest of my goods arrived today so all set to start the cycle tomorrow won't be doing a log but I will take photos to start and every week to see progress.

Here we go,
Smiler

Look forward to seeing how you progress mate are you using epi for a cut or recomp?

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

You're using osta during PCT?

I mean right before a PCT. Typo.

I'll finish my PH cycle (bulk, strength) >> next do SARM cycle (lean up) >> and lastly PCT (free T recovery).

 

[APC80]

I mean right before a PCT. Typo.

I'll finish my PH cycle (bulk, strength) >> next do SARM cycle (lean up) >> and lastly PCT (free T recovery).

Ah right lol not a bad idea I have some osta here may try that myself.

 

[bigdavid]

1st Epistane & M-drol Cycle

Ugh formulas “spiking” superdrop in epistane makes me sad. Epistane by itself is the best. Superdrol turns me into a zombie ten days in. Have ran epi solo for 10 weeks before 30-40 no sides

Edit: when I say solo I also was on TRT dose Test E. Deff don’t don’t do that literally “solo”. And to be fair with superdrol running lower doses for 6 weeks or so it feels somewhat like halo.

 

[Smiler]

Just read about Epi holding water on your face anyone ever experienced this or know anything about it?

 

[APC80]

Just read about Epi holding water on your face anyone ever experienced this or know anything about it?

Yes mate I got the moon face on epi, that's why the clomadex in pct will come in handy. It's not meant to bloat you but I held water on it but then I seem to be really prone to water retention you may not get it everyone's different.

 

[Smiler]

Yes mate I got the moon face on epi, that's why the clomadex in pct will come in handy. It's not meant to bloat you but I held water on it but then I seem to be really prone to water retention you may not get it everyone's different.

Is it really obvious? And did it take long to go on PCT

Thanks,
Smiler

 

[APC80]

Is it really obvious? And did it take long to go on PCT

Thanks,
Smiler

Your face just looks rounder, goes away post cycle and arimistane helps. Think it's just part of the glycogen retention and I was eating a hell of a lot of carbs too. You may not get it but if you do I wouldn't worry as holding some water is good when building muscle.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Just read about Epi holding water on your face anyone ever experienced this or know anything about it?

Epistane has a slight antiestrogenic effect, so estrogen related sides such as gyno and moon face are unlikely, but some people will still get these issues while on cycle (such as myself) due to a decrease in shbg which can elevate estrogen. I recommend people keep an ai on hand for any cycle due to this; exemestane being a good option due to chances of rebound being extremely unlikely as it's a "suicidal" ai.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Your face just looks rounder, goes away post cycle and arimistane helps. Think it's just part of the glycogen retention and I was eating a hell of a lot of carbs too. You may not get it but if you do I wouldn't worry as holding some water is good when building muscle.

Arimistane has no effect towards estrogen in most people's cases, hence why you'll never see legit bloodwork saying otherwise. It's just some bs companies push to make extra money and help people think they'll be safe man

 

[bigdavid]

Never personally had any water retention on epi, and it’s properties would also refute that. For those who did, perhaps it was purely diet related if you were taking it while gaining.

 

[bigdavid]

Also make sure you are actually getting legit epistane. Reliable company/source, etc. could be other compounds added (not uncommon actually) and those may be aromatizing.

With that said, if you aren’t using a test base then the drop in your endogenously produced test and dht may also lead to water retention

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Never personally had any water retention on epi, and it’s properties would also refute that. For those who did, perhaps it was purely diet related if you were taking it while gaining.

Water retention and any other estro issues can happen on any cycle, even epistane. I had some estro issues while on epistane myself; it's caused by lowered shbg, which can elevate estrogen.

 

[APC80]

Arimistane has no effect towards estrogen in most people's cases, hence why you'll never see legit bloodwork saying otherwise. It's just some bs companies push to make extra money and help people think they'll be safe man

I know it has minimal effect on estrogen it dries you out tho, maybe my water retention was cortisol related but arimistane got rid of the bloat pretty quickly. As I said my heavy carb intake may have contributed to it.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I know it has minimal effect on estrogen it dries you out tho, maybe my water retention was cortisol related but arimistane got rid of the bloat pretty quickly. As I said my heavy carb intake may have contributed to it.

Yea carbs also can cause bloating