On Test E TRT for 6 months. Still low?

[drejb]

Hey Guys. Just got blood work done after my first 6 months Test E IM injections.

120mg/ week

60mg on Monday and 60 mg on Thursday

I initially started TRT because I had low normal total T and free T values and tons of symptoms. My doctor that prescribed it didn't really dig deep enough to figure out the root cause. I started at the dermal level, and moved to injection once we saw that my levels weren't really increasing. I did my blood test on monday at around noon, this was 4 days after my thursday 60mg injection.

Free T is still low normal. Total T is still low normal. nothing has really changed, so what is the point? I am transitioning to an endocrinologist but cannot see them until a couple months, and id rather not continue with this current doctor.

Any ideas what I should do?

 

[mike33511]

Increase dosage.

 

[Smont]

Past steroids use?

 

[drejb]

Past steroids use?

No. M1T for a couple weeks at 18 but nothing serious, went back to normal since. I ran EQ for a few weeks at 500mg a week in April but stopped after about 6 weeks. That was already 3 months into my TRT and I've been off EQ for 2 months or so

 

[Smont]

I'm confused, u said no and then listed a bunch of steroid use

 

[drejb]

I'm confused, u said no and then listed a bunch of steroid use

I meant previous to TRT. My M1T barely counted. I took a low dose for a week or less because they were given to me by a friend. It wouldn't have been long enough to shut me down 10 years later

 

[Nac]

Free T is still low normal. Total T is still low normal.nothing has really changed, so what is the point? I am transitioning to an endocrinologist but cannot see them until a couple months, and id rather not continue with this current doctor

Well I doubt this.

What youre seeing here is a trough measure. As in, the lowest point your test will be through the week. However, what numbers you measured at as a natty wouldve been peak readings. As in, the highest you will be.

If your lowest number on trt is your highest when natty, things arent too bad.

But, more importantly than the numbers, have your symptoms improved since being on trt? I dont know if your "nothing has changed" refers to just the numbers, or the symptoms as well.

 

[drejb]

Well I doubt this.

What youre seeing here is a trough measure. As in, the lowest point your test will be through the week. However, what numbers you measured at as a natty wouldve been peak readings. As in, the highest you will be.

If your lowest number on trt is your highest when natty, things arent too bad.

But, more importantly than the numbers, have your symptoms improved since being on trt? I dont know if your "nothing has changed" refers to just the numbers, or the symptoms as well.

Thanks for the insight. I didn't know that my levels would increase / decrease that much within a span of a few days. I figured the ester in test E was long enough to keep steady. My symptoms have slightly improved. I just got my E2 under control which was a huge help to my libido / anxiety. My initial readings had my E2 at almost 200 but I'm on .25 Adex E3d

 

[Nac]

Have you actually been on the test e IM for 6 mnths? Seems like only a month or two back you had some threads asking about EQ, test gels, and switching to inj.

Different physicians seem to have different ideas on what numbers are acceptable with trt. There are some who certainly aim for mid range at least for the trough measure, which is obviously higher than your reading.

But numbers aside, youd hope if you were still experiencing negative symptoms your doc would be trying to address them. Which seems odd, that its taken 6 months of ongoing test-IM treatment and your issues have not been resolved. Surely youve had numerous earlier bloods done whilst injecting the 120mg, did you raise your concerns then?

Im honestly finding it difficult to believe youve been on this protocol for 6 months. Have I misunderstood?

Anyway, regardless, the obvious thing is to try getting your symptoms addressed and alleviated. Theyre why youre on trt in the first place. I wouldnt really even be worried about the TT numbers. The way I see it, if you can start feeling normal again with trt, then look at doing blasts where you can up your test for a period, then drop back to trt (if adding muscle mass is a desire of yours). Depending on how aggressive your blasts are and how much lean tissue you build, you may eventually reach a point where your trt doses are insufficient at keeping the mass you add. At that point youd have a pretty important decision to make.

 

[drejb]

Have you actually been on the test e IM for 6 mnths? Seems like only a month or two back you had some threads asking about EQ, test gels, and switching to inj.

Different physicians seem to have different ideas on what numbers are acceptable with trt. There are some who certainly aim for mid range at least for the trough measure, which is obviously higher than your reading.

But numbers aside, youd hope if you were still experiencing negative symptoms your doc would be trying to address them. Which seems odd, that its taken 6 months of ongoing test IM treatment and your issues have not been resolved. Surely youve had numerous earlier bloods done whilst injecting the 120mg, did you raise your concerns then?

Im honestly finding it difficult to believe youve been on this protocol for 6 months. Have I misunderstood?

Anyway, regardless, the obvious thing is to try getting your symptoms addressed and alleviated. Theyre why youre on trt in the first place. I wouldnt really even be worried about the TT numbers. The way I see it, if you can start feeling normal again with trt, then look at doing blasts where you can up your test for a period, then drop back to trt (if adding muscle mass is a desire of yours). Depending on how aggressive your blasts are and how much lean tissue you build, you may eventually reach a point where your trt doses are insufficient at keeping the mass you add. At that point youd have a pretty important decision to make.

Feb 1st was my first injection. I'd like to just have normal test levels and be able to have a good physique. I'm worried I'm not able to do that with the numbers shown. Also, my symptoms still come and go

 

[Nac]

Feb 1st was my first injection. I'd like to just have normal test levels and be able to have a good physique. I'm worried I'm not able to do that with the numbers shown. Also, my symptoms still come and go

To me your options are pretty obvious. Either your doc works with you to get you feeling as normal as possible (and this may require some compromise on your end too, even "normal" natty guys have sh1tty days)....or you say fuk it and go do your own treatment.

Again, if your doc is prepared to listen and be proactive with addressing your symptoms, forget the numbers. Fuk the numbers. This is about you feeling normal (whatever you consider that to be), and then looking at the possibility of doing blast periods. Which may not even be necessary, I have no clue how much muscle youll be able to build over time on a successful trt protocol (and Im talking you specifically here).

 

[drejb]

Reviving this thread. Just realized that my Total T on TRT is lower than it actually was before starting. What am I doing wrong here? I've decided I am going to continue treatment on my own until I can find a solid endo. My doctor I am currently with is no help to me. Before I started, Total T was 490. Currently I am sitting at 360. 120mg / week 60/60. Should I increase the dose? Could this be because I tested the day before my second injection of the week?

 

[John Smeton]

Your test was four days after a 60 mgs dose.

 

[drejb]

Your test was four days after a 60 mgs dose.

My 60mg dose was Monday morning. I got my test done Thursday morning. I don't think it would dip that low in 3 days. It's Test E

 

[John Smeton]

My 60mg dose was Monday morning. I got my test done Thursday morning. I don't think it would dip that low in 3 days. It's Test E

Its a low dose. On 150 mgs by day seven Im at 240's. That said I seem to metabolize testosterone fast, comparing myself to others blood-work.

you could try 120 all at once and test on day six or seven and see it that helps. It takes a lot of trial and error to find what works best for yourself. Once you find it stick to it lol

 

[drejb]

Its a low dose. On 150 mgs by day seven Im at 240's. That said I seem to metabolize testosterone fast, comparing myself to others blood-work.

you could try 120 all at once and test on day six or seven and see it that helps. It takes a lot of trial and error to find what works best for yourself. Once you find it stick to it lol

I really hope it was just the timing of the test like you say. It's really stressing me out. Think it's the site I'm using as well? I go into the thigh with a 1.5 inch

 

[Nac]

My 60mg dose was Monday morning. I got my test done Thursday morning. I don't think it would dip that low in 3 days. It's Test E

I think we've already discussed this. You cant accurately compare a diurnal peak (natty) with a trt trough. Its dumb. Fruitless. Not even comparable.

 

[drejb]

I think we've already discussed this. You cant accurately compare a diurnal peak (natty) with a trt trough. Its dumb. Fruitless. Not even comparable.

So I'm not necessarily worse off than before I started? I had no idea it fluctuated that much.

 

[Nac]

So I'm not necessarily worse off than before I started? I had no idea it fluctuated that much.

Im just saying its like comparing your bank balance right after your wages are deposited, vs the day before. Your natty measure is a peak, the high. That trt measure is a trough, the low.

Id guarantee if you did a blood measure the day after your trt shot, itd be 2-3x higher than the current reading done the day before.

Do you see the differences here? Timing is everything. Its why you draw as a natty early morning. On trt, though, you typically want to know your lowest measure for the week.

Im not necessarily saying I agree with your doc, Id personally prefer a higher trough measure.

 

[drejb]

Im just saying its like comparing your bank balance right after your wages are deposited, vs the day before. Your natty measure is a peak, the high. That trt measure is a trough, the low.

Id guarantee if you did a blood measure the day after your trt shot, itd be 2-3x higher than the current reading done the day before.

Do you see the differences here? Timing is everything. Its why you draw as a natty early morning. On trt, though, you typically want to know your lowest measure for the week.

Im not necessarily saying I agree with your doc, Id personally prefer a higher trough measure.

Would a higher dose be the only thing that will get me to a higher trough level? I'm planning on doing this on my own now until I find the proper endo.

 

[Nac]

Would a higher dose be the only thing that will get me to a higher trough level? I'm planning on doing this on my own now until I find the proper endo.

Three basic ways to increase trough. Same weekly dose, but more frequent pins. This is both impractical and non-guaranteed. Second way is longer ester. But then you sacrifice your peaks. Third way is obviously more preferable as you know, increase weekly dose.

 

[drejb]

Three basic ways to increase trough. Same weekly dose, but more frequent pins. This is both impractical and non-guaranteed. Second way is longer ester. But then you sacrifice your peaks. Third way is obviously more preferable as you know, increase weekly dose.

Thanks for the Info NAC. Gonna try to bump to 80mg twice a week. Monday and Thursday. See how it goes

 

[Distilled Water]

You may just need more lol. Sounds dumb but we had to play with mine before settling. Some guys need 270/wk while others are dandy on 100/wk.

 

[TheBigJS]

60mg twice per week isn't a lot. No more than mid natty levels.
Finding yourself low ish just before pinning is about right IMHO.