npp vs deca

[big_pete]

first time user to both 5'11 207 lbs 2 cycles. megaplexx and test prop. want to use for bulk cycle
pros cons?
dosage?
how long to run?

 

[jakz]

Depends on a lot of factors? If you are going to use prop again, use Npp. If you are going to use a longer ester use deca.

 

[big_pete]

I'm using cyp this time around. whats a good weekly dose of deca for a first time user? how long should I run it?

 

[jakz]

See man, it's not a definite answer. Everyone is different. I would say:
Weeks 1-15: Test Cyp @ 500mg week.
Weeks 1-12: Deca @ 350mg a week.

Have caber or prami on hand in case of sides, a solid AI as well, nolva and clomid post cycle (2 weeks after last test pin) etc etc.

 

[big_pete]

sounds good jakz. I'm still looking for a legit domestic source online if you could pm me one I would appreciate it.

 

[AlwaysHungry1]

I would say npp if you're ok with eod injections deca stay in you system for a loooooong time 18 months I think

 

[Nac]

Generally speaking, deca will be more conducive to bulking goals. Certainly not a hard and fast rule, though.

 

[big_pete]

interesting. I don't mind ed or eod injections and I like the idea of npp kicking in faster and not having to run it as long. I have been reading ppl run deca for 14 weeks then run the test 2 weeks after. that's a long ass cycle.
Nac why would deca be better for bulking?

 

[Nac]

interesting. I don't mind ed or eod injections and I like the idea of npp kicking in faster and not having to run it as long. I have been reading ppl run deca for 14 weeks then run the test 2 weeks after. that's a long ass cycle.
Nac why would deca be better for bulking?

Similiar aesthetic reasons why 4-andro is seen as a "bulker" vs say epiandro. As to the oils, the longer esters seem to encourage a greater estrogen and water response. Mg for mg, long esters are potentially more anabolic than short esters. Crudely. As in, higher peak plasma level, greater nitrogen retention.

Disclaimer: this is all very generalised and impersonal. Guys will say they bulk awesomely with short esters, too. Some people hate seeing a softer look with long esters.

 

[big_pete]

makes sense. I put on quite a bit of size with test prop but it was my first time cycling test. would have swelled up regardless of ester length. nac what would you recommend I dose the deca per week?

 

[Nac]

If you go with deca, Id recommend anything in the 400-600mg range.

Jakz suggested 350mg, but Ive personally found anything less than 400 is just too subtle in effect.

 

[Chados]

300-300 Is plenty for you. You dont have to run test higher than deca, I say let the stronger compound do the job. If anything do a 250 test 300 deca. By why deca? How does your body look? This is kinda important when deciding what steroid cycle to run.

 

[Chados]

If you go with deca, Id recommend anything in the 400-600mg range.

Jakz suggested 350mg, but Ive personally found anything less than 400 is just too subtle in effect.

600 is a lot, you had fake gear ?

 

[Nac]

600 is a lot, you had fake gear ?

Have you stopped beating your wife?

500mg deca is a pretty standard bro-dose if it is your only secondary compound. I went as high as 600, didnt like it, 400 was my sweet spot.

 

[Chados]

Have you stopped beating your wife?

500mg deca is a pretty standard bro-dose if it is your only secondary compound. I went as high as 600, didnt like it, 400 was my sweet spot.

Haha what? I wasn't trying to insult you but 600 is quite high and I was asking you seriously. 600 is definitely not a standard second cycle dosage

 

[Nac]

Haha what? I wasn't trying to insult you but 600 is quite high and I was asking you seriously. 600 is definitely not a standard second cycle dosage

My research at the time indicated that 500mg deca is pretty standard for a test-dd only cycle. As I said, 400mg was my sweet spot (with 500mg test e). If youre familiar at all with my posting, youll know Im also one of the last guys to suggest there is only one way to do this. Im obviously just relaying my take on it.

 

[Chados]

My research at the time indicated that 500mg deca is pretty standard for a test-dd only cycle. As I said, 400mg was my sweet spot (with 500mg test e). If youre familiar at all with my posting, youll know Im also one of the last guys to suggest there is only one way to do this. Im obviously just relaying my take on it.

I don't see 400 being an overkill but many people go on 300 max on a first or second cycle.

 

[big_pete]

I have read 250mg deca being a therapeutic dose for joints? from what I have read 400 is pretty standard for first timers.I have heard deca would be good for a 2nd cycle and would help me bulk up big time. ill put up a couple picks of my bod

 

[big_pete]

 

[Chados]

Looking at your pictures I would pick primo,eq,winstrol or stack two of these. You're not fat but i just see these being better suited to lean out if you want that. If you go deca I would throw in winstrol last week's.

 

[big_pete]

I want to put on more size before leaning out. I think ill throw in winstrol my last weeks like you said. do you think my body fat is to high to be bulking?

 

[btur2915]

your bf is not too high to bulk. just add something like mast to keep the bloat/water down.

 

[big_pete]

what should I dose mast at

 

[btur2915]

400-600 mast depending on your other doses and ester choice.

 

[Chados]

No don't add masteron. Masteron is something that only really works on low body fat. You're not too fat to bulk but you should go for a lean bulk and my advice is primo, eq,winstrol.. add one of these, winstrol is fast and it's not something to be going for more than 6 weeks. Eq and primo are longer cycles and will put on more mass but not as lean as winstrol.. winstrol is a bit more, (the lower body fat you have the better).. I think all these will make a difference.

 

[big_pete]

I agree with lean bulking. To b honest I am not very familiar with primo , eq or winstroll. what are pros and cons of them? would 3400 cals be good for a clean bulk or is that overdoing it?

 

[jakz]

Look man. It's simple. Test and deca and use an AI to keep water down. Who cares about a bit of bloat anyway? It's not permanent!? Primo is hell expensive and eq is very slow (but keep able gains) and eq needs to be run for 16 weeks.

Why do people complicate everything?

Test, deca and dbol (for a kicker if you want) is an age tested formula.

Bulk the hell out of it, wait 8-10 weeks post pct and drop slightly under maintenance calories for a bit of fat loss.

Marathon,not a sprint.

 

[jakz]

Double post.

 

[jakz]

Also Nac confirmed what I said in my first post. For person A 200mg Deca can work great and others may not feel it under 400mg?

 

[Nac]

Also Nac confirmed what I said in my first post. For person A 200mg Deca can work great and others may not feel it under 400mg?

If I was doing 3 compounds Id maybe go 300 deca, depending what the other compounds were. Ive certainly seen some guys running under 300 just with test, and happy with results. I guess its kinda like the "should I run 500mg test for first cycle?" question. You can run lower of course. But compared to say, tren or trestolone, deca and test tend to have larger windows of tolerance or margins for error. Simply meaning, most people will get away with more generous doses.

 

[Chados]

Look man. It's simple. Test and deca and use an AI to keep water down. Who cares about a bit of bloat anyway? It's not permanent!? Primo is hell expensive and eq is very slow (but keep able gains) and eq needs to be run for 16 weeks.

Why do people complicate everything?

Test, deca and dbol (for a kicker if you want) is an age tested formula.

Bulk the hell out of it, wait 8-10 weeks post pct and drop slightly under maintenance calories for a bit of fat loss.

Marathon,not a sprint.

That's why I said pick one. Eq and tbol would be way more suited than deca dbol

 

[jakz]

That's why I said pick one. Eq and tbol would be way more suited than deca dbol

In terms of what? He said he wanted a maximum bulk. Are you saying that test and eq > deca test for mass?

 

[Chados]

I'm saying that he would get more quality gains, easier to keep, probably less sides. I don't get why people wanna go for dbol over tbol ever..

 

[AlwaysHungry1]

I'm saying that he would get more quality gains, easier to keep, probably less sides. I don't get why people wanna go for dbol over tbol ever..

I'm for that route too I believe lean gains is so much better than massive bulk with waters and fat I also believe that the lean cycles is a lot of better for your health I bulk with test and anavar and it's. going great . According to your photo I believe test eq and var or tbol it's going to do a lot of better.

 

[jakz]

Personal preference. Nothing that can't be handled with an AI.

Less sides for who? You? Me? OP? Eq can cause anxiety. Ever had real anxiety? What has no sides for you may have extreme sides for someone else. Example: I can't use dbol, but I can use Abombs, may be reversed for others.

Deca, dbol and test is the go to mass cycle for a reason. It adds mass. A lot of it.

 

[jakz]

Fat gain is going to come down to diet. Water is kept at bay with AI's.

 

[AlwaysHungry1]

Yeah real anxiety sucks a lot, also yeah deca dbol test adds a really big mass but the had side effects too!

 

[Chados]

I'm for that route too I believe lean gains is so much better than massive bulk with waters and fat I also believe that the lean cycles is a lot of better for your health I bulk with test and anavar and it's. going great . According to your photo I believe test eq and var or tbol it's going to do a lot of better.

For sure, I think the less toxic the better and you dont have the same need to do a cut afterwards.

 

[jakz]

Less toxic? Less liver toxic, sure. Have you seen what Anavar does to lipids?

 

[jakz]

Yeah real anxiety sucks a lot, also yeah deca dbol test adds a really big mass but the had side effects too!

I 100% agree. Everything has sides. Best to go by what compound works for you.

 

[Chados]

Personal preference. Nothing that can't be handled with an AI.

Less sides for who? You? Me? OP? Eq can cause anxiety. Ever had real anxiety? What has no sides for you may have extreme sides for someone else. Example: I can't use dbol, but I can use Abombs, may be reversed for others.

Deca, dbol and test is the go to mass cycle for a reason. It adds mass. A lot of it.

Oh I've had anxiety.. the problems come mostly while overdosing things. I don't dislike deca but eq gives stamina and it's more clean. Dbol is just horrible in my opinion compared to anadrol/winstrol and tbol. The gains are harder to keep and you look like bloated the whole time especially on a high dose. It's all about what body you have to start with, and I personally like the compounds eq, primo ,winstrol and tbol for this guy cause I think that will give a more lean look in the end.

 

[Chados]

Less toxic? Less liver toxic, sure. Have you seen what Anavar does to lipids?

Are you refering to me ? I never mentioned anavar but anavar is more mild for sure. I prefer winstrol over anavar any day but as far as sides, it's people using too high of a dose because anavar doesn't give anything if too low.

 

[Chados]

I agree with lean bulking. To b honest I am not very familiar with primo , eq or winstroll. what are pros and cons of them? would 3400 cals be good for a clean bulk or is that overdoing it?

Winstrol is a muscle hardener and it's great for a person that's kinda lean to get more defined muscles like abs. Both primo and eq will give lean gains but over a period of time and not as fast as deca or even winstrol and they are perfect both for cutting and to bulk. I'd like to put it this way, deca is gonna give great gains and might put on some water while primo and eq doesn't give as much muscles they tend to increase your size while lowering your fat more effectively. Winstrol is kinda tightening your skin, it makes your muscles hard and the veins are popping and will most likely add the least size, it's a polishing compound to end a cycle.

 

[jakz]

Are you refering to me ? I never mentioned anavar but anavar is more mild for sure. I prefer winstrol over anavar any day but as far as sides, it's people using too high of a dose because anavar doesn't give anything if too low.

Anavar screws up lipids like you wouldn't believe. I would maybe use anavar as a finisher to a test and Deca cycle.

 

[Chados]

Anavar screws up lipids like you wouldn't believe. I would maybe use anavar as a finisher to a test and Deca cycle.

It's not a bad idea for what it does but I would never pick anavar above winstrol personally. Then again some people complain about joint pain but I do see anavar being quite bad too with the pumps.

I just dont like dbol with deca or with anything else. It just makes you look like **** and it doesnt matter what you take for bloating cause dbol is the worst out of them all when it comes to bloating.

If he decided to go deca id rather look in to tbol,winstrol and eq or primo and perhaps anavar but I'm kinda sceptic to this one.

 

[big_pete]

I would rather not get all bloated on dbol. Right now I'm currenly on injectable trest ace 30mg ed and 600mg test cyp. been on for a week bout to throw in some msten along with the trest ace for kick start. Irealize now I should have used deca from the start. you bros think throwing it in week 2 or 3 would be too late?

 

[AlwaysHungry1]

Anavar if is legit enough will give great results only at 20-30mg also the pumps from anavar are sick for sure and the veins pop out from everywhere

 

[big_pete]

jakz what are lipids?
whats stronger winstrol or anavar?

 

[jakz]

Lipids are things like cholesterol etc. Stronger in terms of?

 

[Chados]

Winstrol is stronger but more harsh