Suggestion for pre-contest cut

[Nullifidian]

Suggestion for pre-contest cut needed

I know it is a long way off, but I like to be prepared WAY in advance for things. I'm planning on hopefully competing in the NPC NYC Metropolitan Bodybuilding Comp in March next year. I'll be cutting for about 16 weeks prior to the comp. So from late November this year up until mid-March. It will be first contest. Some say I'm retarded for doing such a tough show for my first contest, but I firmly believe in myself and I believe I can do it and place. I'm aiming for light-heavyweight. I'm currently around 215 (I fluctuate daily between 215 and 220) at 5'6.5". My current approximate bodyfat is around 15%. I'm going to continue to bulk all the way up to November. If I see myself gaining too much fat however I'll try to switch things to a recomp rather than a bulk.

Anyway, I'm trying to plan my cut. I'm planning on using some T3 and some clen. Possibly Melting Point if that pans out well (seperately though, probably with ECA).

I'd like some suggestions on some dosing schedules for the cutting drugs. I'd also like some suggestions on which androgens one might hypothetically recommend, for what length, and when relative to the comp. I know one of those androgens will be Test Prop obviously, the question is what other(s) to include and for how long.

I've been planning for what my diet and cardio will be like so I'm pretty sure I'll be ok in that respect. As for training, I find I work well going by gut instinct; i.e. I train to the degree I feel capable that day. I like to change things around a lot with respect to rep ranges, which exercises, how many sets, rest times, etc.


As for water, for my first comp I think I'll stay away from diurretics. I'm also not going to mess with sodium loading; I've tried it before, it doesn't work well with me. I'm just going to load up on water leading up to the contest (2+ gallons per day) and then the day of the contest, only take sips.



So please offer some suggestions. Once again to list things I would like suggestions for:

1) T3/clen/MP/ECA timing
2) AAS cycle drugs to use
3) AAS cycle timing

 

[Nullifidian]

Ok here's the plan I currently came up with:


Total pre-contest will last 16 weeks. So week numbers will be based on that, not on AAS use. Speciulation about Melting Point usage is just that, speculation, only tentative.


Week 1-4: Nothing, just the basics; clean diet and cardio, in order to make sure I am losing fat consistantly without "added help".

Week 5-6: ECA + Melting Point
Week 7-8: Clen + Melting point
Week 9-10: ECA + T3
Week 11-12: Clen + T3
Week 13-15: ECA + Melting Point + Lean eXtreme
Week 16: ECA + LXT

Week 8-15: Test Prop EOD
Week 9-16: Wintrol, injectable ED.


My reasoning for stopping prop for the final week is that Prop does aromatise, and thus can cause water retention. Winstrol however dries you out, so I can continue to take that going into the final week.

I haven't figured out dosages yet. For Prop I'm thinking 100mg EOD, and for Winstrol I'm thinking 50mg ED. With Clen, I'll ramp from 40mcg all the way to about 140mcg. With T3, I'll probably gradually ramp up to like 100mcg and then back down. ECA will be 3/day dosing of 25mg Ephedrine HCL, 200mg Caffeine, and 81mg aspirin. Melting Point I obviously have no idea the dosing. LXT will be 4 caps/day.

 

[GeneTikz]

throw in some masteron too once you're already pretty lean..it's great.

 

[ryanbodybuilder]

use some tren those last 6-8 weeks at 75mg EOD

 

[Nullifidian]

Not sure if I'm ready for tren yet. I've only just done my first injectable cycle recently; all formerly legal stuff (4ad-cyp & 1-Test cyp). I know Tren sides are pretty harsh.

As for Masteron, the primary issue would probably be availability and cost.

 

[kwantam]

I know Tren sides are pretty harsh.

Well, they can be harsh. For me, they're basically not a problem at all, except when I mix tren and clen, in which case I'm a danger to myself and everyone around me, especially when driving.

-kwantam

 

[Nullifidian]

As you can see, I'll be alternating clen and ECA. If tren has that kind of effect with clen, then I'm not sure I want to try it out just yet.

 

[kwantam]

As you can see, I'll be alternating clen and ECA. If tren has that kind of effect with clen, then I'm not sure I want to try it out just yet.

Fair enough, though I was mostly just being facetious. I become (more of?) an asshole, but it's not uncontrollable.

-kwantam

 

[ryanbodybuilder]

going to use any AAS's? you posted in the anabolics room so I assume so..do you have any idea what you are going to use?

I would recommend at least running EQ, because you wont want the test bloat, and well masteron is easy to get if you have a good souce


1-16 EQ 400mg/wk
11-16 Winstrol 50mg ED

 

[glenihan]

i was running just enan for the first part of my cut, have since switched to prop/masteron/dht for the last 6 weeks (will drop the prop 1 week out) its been fabulous

 

[Nullifidian]

Prop + Masteron sounds like a good combo if I can get masteron and it doesn't bankrupt me. Not sure about DHT, but I would suppose M5AA could fit there nicely for the last 4 weeks at something like 70mg per day.

 

[Nullifidian]

So how does this sound instead of Prop and Winstrol I could go with:

Week 8-15: Test Prop EOD
Week 9-16: Masteron, twice weekly

I'm unfamiliar with dosage schemes for Masteron though. Any suggestions?

Perhaps I'd throw in a third compound near the end; something exceedingly dry.

 

[bigpetefox]

So how does this sound instead of Prop and Winstrol I could go with:

Week 8-15: Test Prop EOD
Week 9-16: Masteron, twice weekly

I'm unfamiliar with dosage schemes for Masteron though. Any suggestions?

Perhaps I'd throw in a third compound near the end; something exceedingly dry.

You'll need to find the long-acting masteron (drostanolone enanthate), if you plan to use it only 2x a week.. Masteron (drostanolone propionate) is like a fast-acting DHT, brother, and the long estered version is $$$$..

 

[Nullifidian]

You'll need to find the long-acting masteron (drostanolone enanthate), if you plan to use it only 2x a week.. Masteron (drostanolone propionate) is like a fast-acting DHT, brother, and the long estered version is $$$$..

Masteron is only Drost Enth. Drost Prop is something else. That's why I was confused when I read someone saying Masteron is cheap.

I have no problems using Drost Prop because I can just dose it along with the Test Prop. Any suggestions as to dosages though? 100mg EOD of each sound right?

 

[Nullifidian]

So the AAS portion of the cycle I guess would be Test prop and Drost prop each at 100mg EOD.

 

[bigpetefox]

Masteron is only Drost Enth. Drost Prop is something else. That's why I was confused when I read someone saying Masteron is cheap.

I have no problems using Drost Prop because I can just dose it along with the Test Prop. Any suggestions as to dosages though? 100mg EOD of each sound right?

Drostanolone dipropionate is Masterone, what do you mean?

 

[Nullifidian]

Drostanolone dipropionate is Masterone, what do you mean?

I just checked. It seems I'm a doofus. You are correct, I'm wrong. I'm not entirely sure how I got it into my head that Masteron was Drost E and not Drost Prop. I wonder if perhaps I confused it with Primo which is typically E and mistakenly thought of both of them as being Enanthate.

 

[BassMan097]

Clen + T3 = A-fib. Use at your own risk.


You might want to try a low carb diet, some cardio, and an ECA stack. Clen and T3 is just way too dangerous IMO, but you're a big boy now entering a competition, so I guess graduating to full meathead status includes using stuff that can easily kill you on the spot. Good luck.

I dont mean to rant, and i know you're an adult and apparently are commited to the sport and as such will do anything to get to the next level, but as a member of the medical community and a dedicated natural lifter, I'm just offering info that you might not have heard first hand before. I have seen 2 young men die in an ER from arrythmias induced by clenbuterol use. Stacking T3 with it is just mind-boggling.

 

[ryanbodybuilder]

why dont you post a current picture of yourself...then we can tell you what types of AAS to use......because we can recommend some for 10+ and some for -10

and yes masteron (dro pro) is cheap if you have a good source

 

[Nullifidian]

Clen + T3 = A-fib. Use at your own risk.


You might want to try a low carb diet, some cardio, and an ECA stack. Clen and T3 is just way too dangerous IMO, but you're a big boy now entering a competition, so I guess graduating to full meathead status includes using stuff that can easily kill you on the spot. Good luck.

I dont mean to rant, and i know you're an adult and apparently are commited to the sport and as such will do anything to get to the next level, but as a member of the medical community and a dedicated natural lifter, I'm just offering info that you might not have heard first hand before. I have seen 2 young men die in an ER from arrythmias induced by clenbuterol use. Stacking T3 with it is just mind-boggling.

I've used clen before, and I've used T3 before. Unlike virtually every other human beings I know, I have literally NO family history of heart problems unless you count problems that arise after you've already turned 85 years old. Everyone in my family has always had normal cholesterol levels, low blood pressure, and typically die in their 80s or 90s if they don't die from unnatural causes like a car accident or gunfire.

On T3 my heartrate and blood pressure didn't change at all. Blood pressure and everything else was exactly the same as if I were taking nothing. On clen my resting heartrate went up by about 5 beats per minute, but the only bad side effects I get from clen are muscle cramps and hand tremors. My heart and lungs responds rapidly to endurance training. Several years ago when starting my first major attempt at dieting, my cardio when from an untrained 10 minutes at 5mph, to being able to go for more than an hour straight at 8mph, as well as being capable of 15 or more sprint intervals at 12mph (1 minute sprint, 2 minute jog at 6mph). All that in less than 12 weeks. When on stimulants of any kind however, including ECA, I never do HIIT, only long distance easy pace stuff. I like to keep it below 70% while on clen and things work perfectly fine.

I know my body and I have unwavering will when it comes to dieting. The doses of clen and T3 will be dependant on how my weightloss is progressing as well as severity of sides. I've used both before and am fully aware of all the potential sides, and more importantly the sides I typicaly experience. For the most part, clen and T3 dosages will be "business as usual" for me.


I appreciate your concern, but I don't appreciate your condescending attitude. So excuse me if I think you're a complete prick. Next time you think you're being clever, get to know someone's history first before cramming your foot in your mouth.


P.S. excuse me for being pissy, I'm on PCT.

 

[BassMan097]

I've used clen before, and I've used T3 before. Unlike virtually every other human beings I know, I have literally NO family history of heart problems unless you count problems that arise after you've already turned 85 years old. Everyone in my family has always had normal cholesterol levels, low blood pressure, and typically die in their 80s or 90s if they don't die from unnatural causes like a car accident or gunfire.

On T3 my heartrate and blood pressure didn't change at all. Blood pressure and everything else was exactly the same as if I were taking nothing. On clen my resting heartrate went up by about 5 beats per minute, but the only bad side effects I get from clen are muscle cramps and hand tremors. My heart and lungs responds rapidly to endurance training. Several years ago when starting my first major attempt at dieting, my cardio when from an untrained 10 minutes at 5mph, to being able to go for more than an hour straight at 8mph, as well as being capable of 15 or more sprint intervals at 12mph (1 minute sprint, 2 minute jog at 6mph). All that in less than 12 weeks. When on stimulants of any kind however, including ECA, I never do HIIT, only long distance easy pace stuff. I like to keep it below 70% while on clen and things work perfectly fine.

I know my body and I have unwavering will when it comes to dieting. The doses of clen and T3 will be dependant on how my weightloss is progressing as well as severity of sides. I've used both before and am fully aware of all the potential sides, and more importantly the sides I typicaly experience. For the most part, clen and T3 dosages will be "business as usual" for me.


I appreciate your concern, but I don't appreciate your condescending attitude. So excuse me if I think you're a complete prick. Next time you think you're being clever, get to know someone's history first before cramming your foot in your mouth.


P.S. excuse me for being pissy, I'm on PCT.

Hey man, no hard feelings. I just dont have any respect for guys using AAS, but at the same time, i feel that I have an obligation as a member of the medical field to look out for people. Your lack of history of heart disease and hyperlipidemia means nothing. Clenbuterol is a Beta agonist, and as such, it speeds your heart rate and increases contractility, and will also dilate your airways for a perceived increase in cardio endurance. T3 is also a heart stimulant, as well as an overall metabolism booster. And since you've used both before you're going to be ok, right? Wrong...In medical school my rotation in the ER was only 6 weeks and in that short time I saw 2 'bodybuilders' die from the use of clen and god knows what else. Neither had history of heart disease. Just because you've used them before doesnt mean you can't have adverse rxns in the future. Not to mention that you're running the risk of shutting down your thyroid gland every time you use exogenous T3. An older guy i know (early 30's) was an avid user of T3 on and off for a while and guess what? His shredded physique is now a pile of fat because his thyroid went caput, and his physician can't place him on a dose of replacement therapy high enough to get him to lose the fat because he's already done so much damage to his heart.

Your lack of a family history does come into play when you talk about the long term effects of AAS (not clen/T3). Even then, however, there's no way your lipids wont be out of whack after a cycle. It's just impossible.

I did not mean to be a prick, I just feel very strongly about natural lifting and i despise what the sport has become. (like you guys using AAS give a crap, i know) I've been lifting for a long time, and i have many friends that use AAS for cosmetic reasons and have no desire to compete. As such they take much less dosage and variety of illicit drugs as compared to guys gunning for competitions. That being said, they still have had serious health problems. Every one of them.

I'm not here to be your mother or tell you what to do. But the advise I'm giving you can save your life. Cardiac stimulants arent like AAS. You dont get bloodwork and say "oh ****, its time to stop the cycle." You might only get one chance with this, and there's a good chance it could be your last. Trust me, there arent that many people that sustain supraventricular tachyarrythmias and live to tell about it.

If anything, why not try some cutting AAS and OTC ephedra for a month and then slowly introduce the clen/t3 if you must?

I know you're going to use it anyway beacuse of the contest coming up and your burning desire to break into the sport. Believe me when i tell you i know what it feels like to want something this badly. But i swear to you you can get 'contest' shredded without clen/t3.

All I can say is good luck with your pursuits and I hope you dont become another statistic.


P.S. That's all i'm going to contribute to the thread. i can go on for days talking about all the things that can go wrong with clen/t3, etc. But since you started this thread and I know you're going to pursue the aforementioned cutting cycle, i wont detract anymore from guys giving you advise on what cycle to use. Good luck.

 

[Nullifidian]

See, once again you make assumptions about me that are baseless.

Besides that you didn't even look at my tenative cutting schedule. I wasn't planning on using clen anyway until week 6.


I'm asking for suggestions to get second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. opinions about various compounds and timing, etc. I have an idea in my head of what I want to do, but I respect the opinions of others on this board who have knowledge and more importantly experience in the use of said compounds. Thus I asked for additional ideas from them to factor into planning my proposed cutting cycle. Never assume you know everything about a subject, you never know when someone could have knowledge of a concept you were unaware of.


As for saying my previous experience with clen is irrelevant, that comment is an indication of one of two things: 1) you would rather use ridiculous lies and scare tactics to push your opinion rather than sound science 2) you really are a pisspoor med student and you are talking out of your ass.

Previous experience with a drug establishes tolerance. It shows how well a person tolerates a drug and what to expect from future use of the drug. Saying previous use of the drug has no bearing on future use is just ignorant. In fact, previous use of another drug that is even in the same CLASS has major weight in predicting the effects of a drug. For example, side effects you receive from Cialis are likely going to be very similar to ones on Viagra.

 

[BassMan097]

See, once again you make assumptions about me that are baseless.

Besides that you didn't even look at my tenative cutting schedule. I wasn't planning on using clen anyway until week 6.


I'm asking for suggestions to get second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. opinions about various compounds and timing, etc. I have an idea in my head of what I want to do, but I respect the opinions of others on this board who have knowledge and more importantly experience in the use of said compounds. Thus I asked for additional ideas from them to factor into planning my proposed cutting cycle. Never assume you know everything about a subject, you never know when someone could have knowledge of a concept you were unaware of.


As for saying my previous experience with clen is irrelevant, that comment is an indication of one of two things: 1) you would rather use ridiculous lies and scare tactics to push your opinion rather than sound science 2) you really are a pisspoor med student and you are talking out of your ass.

Previous experience with a drug establishes tolerance. It shows how well a person tolerates a drug and what to expect from future use of the drug. Saying previous use of the drug has no bearing on future use is just ignorant. In fact, previous use of another drug that is even in the same CLASS has major weight in predicting the effects of a drug. For example, side effects you receive from Cialis are likely going to be very similar to ones on Viagra.

I dont expect you to be on the same level of understanding here. I guess i just wasted my time. Just like all the other meatheads with their WebMD degrees in pharmacology and doctorates from Gold's Gym University, you'll end up learning the hard way. You might want to invest in a defibrillator while you're at it. And please, dont lecture me about sound science. You're just embarassing yourself. Sure, tolerance builds up once you start a drug. But when was the last time you used clen? During the usage your beta receptors are down-regulated (hence, tolerance). However, when you stop, you get a rebound up-regulation, so the next time you take it, the same dose you used the previous time will have a greater effect.

Let's put all our cards on the table here...If you were as dedicated to the sport and dieting as you say you are, you would not need illegal drugs to reach your goal. Plain and simple. This is why i have no respect for juiceheads. You guys all rant and rave about how dedicated you all are, when your physiques are predicated on the use of illegal and harmful drugs. It all comes out in the wash though. Once you get your first medical scare and stop jucing you'll deflate like a popped balloon and then we'll see who the truly dedicated guys are.

And I hate to burst your bubble but unless you're willing to literally put your health on the line and get freakishly huge using HGH, insulin, deca out the ass, etc, you wont ever get a pro card. It's just the nature of the sport these days.

 

[Nullifidian]

Get off your soapbox and stop antognoizing people whose system of values differ your own. The people on this board are interested in performance enhancement. If you have a problem with that then you need to either keep it to yourself or leave.

You've been reported.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I dont expect you to be on the same level of understanding here. I guess i just wasted my time. Just like all the other meatheads with their WebMD degrees in pharmacology and doctorates from Gold's Gym University, you'll end up learning the hard way. You might want to invest in a defibrillator while you're at it. And please, dont lecture me about sound science. You're just embarassing yourself. Sure, tolerance builds up once you start a drug. But when was the last time you used clen? During the usage your beta receptors are down-regulated (hence, tolerance). However, when you stop, you get a rebound up-regulation, so the next time you take it, the same dose you used the previous time will have a greater effect.

Let's put all our cards on the table here...If you were as dedicated to the sport and dieting as you say you are, you would not need illegal drugs to reach your goal. Plain and simple. This is why i have no respect for juiceheads. You guys all rant and rave about how dedicated you all are, when your physiques are predicated on the use of illegal and harmful drugs. It all comes out in the wash though. Once you get your first medical scare and stop jucing you'll deflate like a popped balloon and then we'll see who the truly dedicated guys are.

And I hate to burst your bubble but unless you're willing to literally put your health on the line and get freakishly huge using HGH, insulin, deca out the ass, etc, you wont ever get a pro card. It's just the nature of the sport these days.

Yeah, at 22 you are well beyond any of us here with your vast knowledge of the medical literature on the subject.

Oh that is right, you said you were an older guy (early 30's). Well we established you as a liar now.

Bye.

 

[Nullifidian]

Thanks, Bobo. I didn't want this thread to be about arguments, I wanted it to be about pre-contest drug plans.


So as it stands here is the tentative plan:

Week 1-4: Nothing, just the basics; clean diet and cardio, in order to make sure I am losing fat consistantly without "added help".

Week 5-6: ECA + Melting Point
Week 7-8: Clen + Melting point
Week 9-10: ECA + T3
Week 11-12: Clen + T3
Week 13-15: ECA + Melting Point + Lean eXtreme
Week 16: ECA + LXT

Week 8-15: 100mg Test Prop EOD
Week 9-16: 100mg Masteron, injectable EOD.


Clen dosage plans (depending of course on how weightloss is progressing):
Weeks 7-8 -
40 40 60 60 80 80 100 100 120 120 140 140 140 140

Weeks 11-12 -
20 20 40 40 40 60 60 60 80 80 80 80 80 80

T3:
Week 9: 20 40 40 60 60 60 80
Week 10: 80 80 80 100 100 100 100
Week 11: 100 100 100 100 100 80
Week 12: 80 60 60 60 40 40 20

 

[revamping]

Inject 50-100mg of masterone (drostanalone) EOD with the testP, you wont b dissapointed if your lean enough