Why don't people use just test?

PapaPumpp

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I have a question, might be simple for you to answer.
But I still see people using Pro hormones and SARMs for first cycles. But why?
I even asked myself that question as well. Because not to long ago about a week ago I wanted to use a PH or SARM for a first cycle. But then I realized and researched test is much safer.

So why is there people still using PH and such? Is there something I'm missing? Or should I sick with the old stuff (test e) for a first cycle.
 
DemntedCowboy

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Whats your age, weight, bf, and Diet?
 
DemntedCowboy

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First cycle I would stick to Test-E for 12 to 16 weeks by itself. You'll be happy with that as a first run
 
DemntedCowboy

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I was a little heavier than you but I ran Test-E @ 600mg a week for 16 weeks my first run
 
jgntyce

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OP, your receptors are fresh and since this will be your first run, you will make excellent gains.
 

PapaPumpp

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I was a little heavier than you but I ran Test-E @ 600mg a week for 16 weeks my first run
I been reading that the average is 500mg a week, but I was thinking about 400mg a week since I want to kind of evaluate the sides/gains (trying to see how my body will react from the skin issues acne and anything else) then work my way up for the next cycle.

Do you think this would be a good idea? I'm defiantly open to options
 
DemntedCowboy

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That would be good. I'm not recommending 600 for you. Just saying what I ran. Make sure you have your PCT, I prefer Nolva, and an AI just incase you need it.
 
DemntedCowboy

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I been reading that the average is 500mg a week, but I was thinking about 400mg a week since I want to kind of evaluate the sides/gains (trying to see how my body will react from the skin issues acne and anything else) then work my way up for the next cycle.

Do you think this would be a good idea? I'm defiantly open to options
I have a buddy getting ready for his first run and he's running 300 a week
 

PapaPumpp

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I have a buddy getting ready for his first run and he's running 300 a week
I was thinking on running that to, but also heard it might be a waste. So I'm trying to find the in between to see lol.
Thanks for the help!
 
DemntedCowboy

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I was thinking on running that to, but also heard it might be a waste. So I'm trying to find the in between to see lol.
Thanks for the help!
If you do decide to run that low. I would recommend to front load your first shot
 
Nac

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I think 500mg has stood the test of time as the generic recommendation in part due to it striking a reasonable balance between manageability, potency/efficacy, and allowing for (overcoming) any diet/training/rest/genetic "shortfalls".

Some people will make great gains on less than 500mg. But when everyone claims to have diet/training down, and you know due to experience many dont, there is no practical way on a forum like this to tell the difference (generally). So, cookie-cutter recommendations.
 

PapaPumpp

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I played college ball with guys who ran 250 a week a blew up. 250 will put most out of natty ranges (over 1,500ng/nl)
I wanted to do 250 a week, but I heard that was a waste to. I guess only one way to find out. Like I said above my goal is to determine the sides from 250 mg 300 and 400 mg
 
goalinmind

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I agree with running a first or second cycle with just test and see how you like it. Some want to go in and add a bunch of extra compounds and they don't even understand how to get their blood work in check. Test is great for entry level, after you've done it a while and you understand how you respond to those cycles add a little extra in
 

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it hits faster, works pretty damn good for a kickstart but for a solo it's just stupid since using orals for more than 4 weeks gon fuk u up,

gotta love dmz for 4 weeks + 12 weeks of test-e, 16 weeks of pure magic
 

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I wanted to do 250 a week, but I heard that was a waste to. I guess only one way to find out. Like I said above my goal is to determine the sides from 250 mg 300 and 400 mg
my first cycle was 250 mg/wk. great gains in strength, recovery and endurance. lost some fat, gain a little bit of muscle (I was eating more for a recomp).

gains in size are more dose dependent with testosterone than strength, IMO.

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.figures-only
 

CatSnake

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I have a question, might be simple for you to answer.
But I still see people using Pro hormones and SARMs for first cycles. But why?
I even asked myself that question as well. Because not to long ago about a week ago I wanted to use a PH or SARM for a first cycle. But then I realized and researched test is much safer.

So why is there people still using PH and such? Is there something I'm missing? Or should I sick with the old stuff (test e) for a first cycle.
honestly, I think there are 2 main reasons.

1. people that orals are safer, since it's not a needle, and people consider those types of drugs more dangerous (maybe because of stuff like heroin... I dunno?). however, testosterone at moderate dosages is pretty benign, whereas most orals are pretty tough on the liver.

2. legality. it's way easier to get SARMs right now, since they're kinda legal. and some prohormones are still legal, too... the irony is, testosterone is almost always cheaper...
 
TheBigJS

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2. legality. it's way easier to get SARMs right now, since they're kinda legal. and some prohormones are still legal
But you've got to go illegal for PCT so whats the difference? Your Clomid source will have test, tren, everything.

IMHO it's three things, all silly and one totally wrong.
1; fear of needles
2; unwilling to be properly "on the hot sauce"
3; mistaken belief PH's and SARMS are either safer and/or more effective.
 
Nac

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I dont think a fear of needles is silly. On the contrary, its instinctual and totally understandable.
 

CatSnake

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But you've got to go illegal for PCT so whats the difference? Your Clomid source will have test, tren, everything.

IMHO it's three things, all silly and one totally wrong.
1; fear of needles
2; unwilling to be properly "on the hot sauce"
3; mistaken belief PH's and SARMS are either safer and/or more effective.
well, you can get "research chems" and still hang out in the grey area .... ;)

but yeah, I think the fear is unfounded.
 

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PHs are easier to get for me anyway. I wouldn't have a clue on where to get test or anything else for that matter.
 
sandpig

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I wanted to do 250 a week, but I heard that was a waste to. I guess only one way to find out. Like I said above my goal is to determine the sides from 250 mg 300 and 400 mg
Everyone is different.

You might be a hyper responder and blow up on that.

Only one way to find out.
 
JahCure

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Some people may risk losing employment if they wanted to use illegal injectable test.
 
yates84

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Bro, if you have a good connection for test and can commit to injecting yourself every few days then you are stupid not to run test from the jump. If you are not sure of a legit source or can't commit to pinning then eat some orals. Pretty simple.
 
brofessorx

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I have a question, might be simple for you to answer.
But I still see people using Pro hormones and SARMs for first cycles. But why?
I even asked myself that question as well. Because not to long ago about a week ago I wanted to use a PH or SARM for a first cycle. But then I realized and researched test is much safer.

So why is there people still using PH and such? Is there something I'm missing? Or should I sick with the old stuff (test e) for a first cycle.
Why do people jack off instead of just having sex?
 
brofessorx

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I played college ball with guys who ran 250 a week a blew up. 250 will put most out of natty ranges (over 1,500ng/nl)
Running 250/weekly and training for a triathlon. I have to be careful or I'll jump up in weight like literally in a few days.
Went on vacation for 4 days, gained 8lbs. The point being, if you want to you can gain on 250/week easily for sure.
 
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brofessorx

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I think 500mg has stood the test of time as the generic recommendation in part due to it striking a reasonable balance between manageability, potency/efficacy, and allowing for (overcoming) any diet/training/rest/genetic "shortfalls".

Some people will make great gains on less than 500mg. But when everyone claims to have diet/training down, and you know due to experience many dont, there is no practical way on a forum like this to tell the difference (generally). So, cookie-cutter recommendations.
I think 500 is common because most 10ml vials of test are 200-250.
 
brofessorx

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Bro, if you have a good connection for test and can commit to injecting yourself every few days then you are stupid not to run test from the jump. If you are not sure of a legit source or can't commit to pinning then eat some orals. Pretty simple.
If 4-androstenediol was still legal, I'd rather use that than injecting 2x per week, though I'd probably go for what peeps do with trest now.

I'd inject 1x per week and use 4-diol daily pre workout. That isht was freaking awesome preworkout.
 
brofessorx

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heavylifter33

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I have a question, might be simple for you to answer.
But I still see people using Pro hormones and SARMs for first cycles. But why?
I even asked myself that question as well. Because not to long ago about a week ago I wanted to use a PH or SARM for a first cycle. But then I realized and researched test is much safer.

So why is there people still using PH and such? Is there something I'm missing? Or should I sick with the old stuff (test e) for a first cycle.
Here's a wild idea: I can buy a PH/DS on ebay and not worry about committing a felony.

WOW. What a concept.
 

kisaj

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Running 250/weekly and training for a triathlon. I have to be careful or I'll jump up in weight like literally in a few days.
Went on vacation for 4 days, gained 8lbs. The point being, if you want to you can gain on 250/week easily for sure.
Easily. I am on a 300mg run right now on week 7 and have gained 13lbs with little water weight. You train right, eat a bit above maintenance or more and weight just piles on a test cycle.
 
fueledpassion

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To answer your question about why folks don't just take test, my answer to that is just copying and pasting what I said in another thread when it comes to using AAS vs. SARMs and PH's. This is the truth for 95% of the weight-lifting population. I would know, I used to think this way about it too. Anyone outside of WADA-sanctioned athletic events or with employers that test for this this sort of thing pretty much fall into this category as far as reasoning behind taking PH's instead of gear:

"Just grown men wanting to have the results of AAS but scared about pinning and unrealistic fears about getting caught.

Let's just be honest. For most, it's never about having the label of being"natty" or the sides associated with steroid use. It's mostly about an unrealistic fear of pinning and of getting caught.

Soldiers, law enforcement and anyone else that is subject to tests by their employers have REALISTIC fears."

There is one more element to it though - a growing population of millennials that have ZERO idea where true north is on the moral compass and so I've noticed that the younger generation tends to depend on the government to define what is right and wrong or good/bad. Terrible I know but in the wake of this socialist/marxist movement in society, people really are looking at government to determine what they can/can't do and what they should/shouldn't do. PH's are not clearly spelled out like AAS, at least some of them aren't. And as far as I can tell, the Steroid Act really only addresses businesses and commercial handling, which is why the government included some phrasing called "intent to distribute" so they could ding just about everyone that possesses the drugs in high enough quantities. Little known to society, until the individual mandate of Obamacare, federal legislation that calls fo regulation of the individual citizen never existed and other than that example mentioned above, it still doesn't.
 
fueledpassion

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Easily. I am on a 300mg run right now on week 7 and have gained 13lbs with little water weight. You train right, eat a bit above maintenance or more and weight just piles on a test cycle.

Yeah the older I get the more true this becomes but I still have a ways to go before I can just "easily" put on 13lbs on 300mg/wk and slightly above maintenance. But I prefer slower weight gain anyways for longevity's sake.
 

PapaPumpp

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Yeah the older I get the more true this becomes but I still have a ways to go before I can just "easily" put on 13lbs on 300mg/wk and slightly above maintenance. But I prefer slower weight gain anyways for longevity's sake.
I wanted to start low and work my way up, but almost everyone says start at 500mg. More then Likly I'll start at 250mg to see the sides and how I react. And with this I would still pin twice a day, Mon and Thur, .5ml on those days (instead of the whole 1ml) to keep everything "stable" right now I'm taking it slow and researching the ways to pin now. Just wondering if this sounds good.
 

PapaPumpp

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Here's a wild idea: I can buy a PH/DS on ebay and not worry about committing a felony.

WOW. What a concept.
Most PH/DS are illegal as well, sure some are still legal but not as great. Even the correct PCTs you have to take are not necessarily legal for human consumption like the ones at a research chem site.

But the more I read, it just doesn't make sense, the sides with PH can be worse then regular test.

Thanks for the input
 

kisaj

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Yeah the older I get the more true this becomes but I still have a ways to go before I can just "easily" put on 13lbs on 300mg/wk and slightly above maintenance. But I prefer slower weight gain anyways for longevity's sake.
Yeah, this has been an unusually successful run. Even I am surprised at how easily I am putting on weight and strength.
 

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How about finding legit sources buying UG test? That is my biggest concern in this market. PH's are still legal where I live and I can research countless reviews and feedback with brands before commiting to a product. Chances are if i did order test I'd have it seized in customs before it arrived anyway. As for sides, running test at supraphysical levels has plenty of them to compare with PH's. The lack of liver toxicity is a plus but then again not all orals are highly liver toxic either.
 
fueledpassion

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How about finding legit sources buying UG test? That is my biggest concern in this market. PH's are still legal where I live and I can research countless reviews and feedback with brands before commiting to a product. Chances are if i did order test I'd have it seized in customs before it arrived anyway. As for sides, running test at supraphysical levels has plenty of them to compare with PH's. The lack of liver toxicity is a plus but then again not all orals are highly liver toxic either.
From my experience, Test is the least faked. But to your point, there is a reiable source of MENT injection here in states and for cheap...

MENT would be as strong as anything else out there...
 

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To answer your question about why folks don't just take test, my answer to that is just copying and pasting what I said in another thread when it comes to using AAS vs. SARMs and PH's. This is the truth for 95% of the weight-lifting population. I would know, I used to think this way about it too. Anyone outside of WADA-sanctioned athletic events or with employers that test for this this sort of thing pretty much fall into this category as far as reasoning behind taking PH's instead of gear:

"Just grown men wanting to have the results of AAS but scared about pinning and unrealistic fears about getting caught.

Let's just be honest. For most, it's never about having the label of being"natty" or the sides associated with steroid use. It's mostly about an unrealistic fear of pinning and of getting caught.

Soldiers, law enforcement and anyone else that is subject to tests by their employers have REALISTIC fears."

There is one more element to it though - a growing population of millennials that have ZERO idea where true north is on the moral compass and so I've noticed that the younger generation tends to depend on the government to define what is right and wrong or good/bad. Terrible I know but in the wake of this socialist/marxist movement in society, people really are looking at government to determine what they can/can't do and what they should/shouldn't do. PH's are not clearly spelled out like AAS, at least some of them aren't. And as far as I can tell, the Steroid Act really only addresses businesses and commercial handling, which is why the government included some phrasing called "intent to distribute" so they could ding just about everyone that possesses the drugs in high enough quantities. Little known to society, until the individual mandate of Obamacare, federal legislation that calls fo regulation of the individual citizen never existed and other than that example mentioned above, it still doesn't.
You can't copy anybody and end with anything. If you copy, it means you're working without any real feeling.
 
THOR 70

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OP,

From my experience, here are some points to consider.

I'm 6'4" 250 and I like 400mg just as much as 1g of test. Not much difference in benefits for me. I can "feel" 250mg even at my weight.

I favor shorter runs of 8-10 weeks as I feel diminishing returns after that. Also there is theory of less shutdown/better recovery in pct the less time on.

You can start low and slow and judge sides/feel. Maybe start at 250mg for 4 weeks and if all good bump to 500mg. Only downside with this is it is a shock to the body every time hormones change drastically. Nothing major side wise from my experience but maybe a burst of acne on back/shoulders.

Nothing is set in stone from a cycle stand point. But as many have said there are standard/widely accepted protocols that majority of people respond well to. Good luck
 

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heyboy I hate you sometimes
I say what I want to say and do what I want to do. There's no in between. People will either love you for it or hate you for it.
 

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