EPI and MMA

[M90]

Hi all,

New to this forum and just wondering if anyone can educate me.

Im 27, 5ft 8, 140lbs at 12/14% body fat.

I have 2 prohormones. Genetic Rebuild SD Rebuild and Genetic Rebuild Epi.

I am looking to recomp my body. So was thinking of using epi at 40mg each day for 6 weeks.

My question is, will MMA have an impact on the gains? As I want to build as much muscle as possible and MMA classes will be high cardio. Will this create more fat loss than anything or isit not worth using at all?

Also will it be better to eat at maintanence or surplus?

Thanks

 

[JahCure]

You may want to think about stacking your epi with some sort of mild test base (4-ad/4-andro/epiandro).

MMA will only impact gains if you are eating under maintenance calories. As long as you are factoring in calories burned due to MMA with your TDEE, and eating a surplus of calories, you will gain weight.

Your question regarding eating maintenance or surplus is dependent upon what you want to gain from the cycle.

 

[M90]

You may want to think about stacking your epi with some sort of mild test base (4-ad/4-andro/epiandro).

MMA will only impact gains if you are eating under maintenance calories. As long as you are factoring in calories burned due to MMA with your TDEE, and eating a surplus of calories, you will gain weight.

Your question regarding eating maintenance or surplus is dependent upon what you want to gain from the cycle.

I've only got superdrol and Epi. I bought epi to cut fat and superdrol do bulk in winter.

Id be going MMA classes 2/3 times a week and weight training 2 days a week but full body compounds with 1 extra exercise per body part.

I was actually initially wanted to cut but seeing as I dont really weigh much, I am thinking of a recomposition. So cut fat while gaining muscle. I've read either eat at maintanence or surplus would be best - just wondering if anyone done this before? I am thinking keep proteings high whilst carbs mid range.

 

[Chados]

If you're lean already youll see some difference if cutting or bulking but youre not gonna blow up. Now if you're not lean you won't see much of it at all.

 

[M90]

If you're lean already youll see some difference if cutting or bulking but youre not gonna blow up. Now if you're not lean you won't see much of it at all.

When you say lean, how lean do you mean? I'm not exactly fat, im about 12-15% body fat. Most of my fat is around my abs so wna cut fat so my abs show.

 

[Chados]

I think you're gonna notice at least with gym some strength gains and some lean mass. Epistane isn't something you wanna bulk with really. More of a cut or to polish your body. With mma only im not sure how it'll affect you but I would guess you could see some change. Superdrol is just on another level and here you can put on some pounds for sure. Without test and without really hitting the weights I doubt that people around you would go (what happened to you?) But I'm sure you will see some difference in the mirror.

The nice benefit you'll have with epi is that the gains are lean and while they're small also easy to maintain, however I wouldn't do it without test.

 

[hyperCat]

I think the SD is gonna have a negative impact on your cardio, so just keep that in mind. Keep your BP in check.

 

[rgurleyjr]

You can consider Cardarine for it's benefits with endurance and some say fat loss.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

My question is, will MMA have an impact on the gains?

Dr. Mike Israetel Rolls many times a week - I doubt MMA will hurt your gains.

 

[M90]

I think you're gonna notice at least with gym some strength gains and some lean mass. Epistane isn't something you wanna bulk with really. More of a cut or to polish your body. With mma only im not sure how it'll affect you but I would guess you could see some change. Superdrol is just on another level and here you can put on some pounds for sure. Without test and without really hitting the weights I doubt that people around you would go (what happened to you?) But I'm sure you will see some difference in the mirror.

The nice benefit you'll have with epi is that the gains are lean and while they're small also easy to maintain, however I wouldn't do it without test.

Thanks. I think I'll use it to recomp my body so burn fat while maintaining muscle. I'll use superdrol in winter to bulk but I don't know whereto get test from so thats out the question.

My other question is about dosage and pct.

The capsules are 20mg each and have 90 in total. So either I do 40mg for 6 and half week. Or start at 20mg for few days then 40mg for 6 weeks?

Also nolva at 10mg for 2 weeks?

 

[M90]

I think the SD is gonna have a negative impact on your cardio, so just keep that in mind. Keep your BP in check.

Have you tried SD before?

 

[hyperCat]

Yep, been awhile tho. Seem to remember getting winded pretty easily during cycle. Same with m1 alpha, but that might just be me.

 

[Chados]

Is this your first time? In that case of go normal dosage or slightly higher on epi.. 1. You'll gain more on first cycle most likely 2. You don't know if you'll get sides and it's easier to recover with not so high. The nolva I'm not sure , most common is probably 40 20 20 20 for a month. It's impossible to really know how your body reacts but don't think you'll get sides from epi. Maybe kickstart with 20 then 10

 

[M90]

Is this your first time? In that case of go normal dosage or slightly higher on epi.. 1. You'll gain more on first cycle most likely 2. You don't know if you'll get sides and it's easier to recover with not so high. The nolva I'm not sure , most common is probably 40 20 20 20 for a month. It's impossible to really know how your body reacts but don't think you'll get sides from epi. Maybe kickstart with 20 then 10

I've done sd matrix before and epi couple years ago but I didn't really have a diet or anything so probably didn't make the most out of it.

I been reading online and apparently epi kicks in after 4 weeks. So to make the most of the gains coming after the 4th week, i thought id start low and go ramp it up.

 

[Chados]

I wouldn't listen to people telling you when it kicks in. It's very different from person to person and it's also less noticable depending on your look. You're not gonna make huge gains but mostly lean out and get strenght. I wouldn't be scared to go higher on epi but I would never recommend it because I am not a doctor.. just from personal experience. It's easy even without pct to keep gains. I don't think you have to overthink epi too much. Just eat clean , no fast sugar and high on protein and I think you'll be happy with the results. Just remember going out of a cycle doesn't mean you can go back to eating anything. You have to treat your body well to keep yourself lean. The muscles might be there but you will loose that nice lean look.

 

[Woody]

You can make very noticeable, quality gains on epistane for sure. If you've never ran it, I'd prolly start at 20 for a couple days, then 30, then 40 for rest of run. If it's quality epistane, 40mg will be plenty.

And yes, Epi generally takes 3-4 weeks to kick in. Sure, everyone is different but the odds are that it will take 3-4 weeks for you to start to see the results and 6-8 week runs are preferred

As far as PCT, nolva 20/20/10/10. You can extend your PCT out longer, too. I generally do 6-8 week PCT.

 

[M90]

I wouldn't listen to people telling you when it kicks in. It's very different from person to person and it's also less noticable depending on your look. You're not gonna make huge gains but mostly lean out and get strenght. I wouldn't be scared to go higher on epi but I would never recommend it because I am not a doctor.. just from personal experience. It's easy even without pct to keep gains. I don't think you have to overthink epi too much. Just eat clean , no fast sugar and high on protein and I think you'll be happy with the results. Just remember going out of a cycle doesn't mean you can go back to eating anything. You have to treat your body well to keep yourself lean. The muscles might be there but you will loose that nice lean look.

Thanks man, appreciate your help. I eat clean most of the time anyway. Im not really going for a bodybuilders look anyway, just want to lean out and put on solid muscle.

 

[M90]

You can make very noticeable, quality gains on epistane for sure. If you've never ran it, I'd prolly start at 20 for a couple days, then 30, then 40 for rest of run. If it's quality epistane, 40mg will be plenty.

And yes, Epi generally takes 3-4 weeks to kick in. Sure, everyone is different but the odds are that it will take 3-4 weeks for you to start to see the results and 6-8 week runs are preferred

As far as PCT, nolva 20/20/10/10. You can extend your PCT out longer, too. I generally do 6-8 week PCT.

I cant do 10mg because the caps are 20mg each and theres 90 capsules. So I was thinking of using 20mg for first 3days then 40mg for 6weeks. Or maybe 20mg for 2weeks then 40mg for 5 and half weeks? What do you reckon?

Also if im going to be on a deficit will I gain muscle? Or just maintane?

 

[rtmilburn]

I think you're gonna notice at least with gym some strength gains and some lean mass. Epistane isn't something you wanna bulk with really. More of a cut or to polish your body. With mma only im not sure how it'll affect you but I would guess you could see some change. Superdrol is just on another level and here you can put on some pounds for sure. Without test and without really hitting the weights I doubt that people around you would go (what happened to you?) But I'm sure you will see some difference in the mirror.

The nice benefit you'll have with epi is that the gains are lean and while they're small also easy to maintain, however I wouldn't do it without test.

Bull**** epi is a great bulker too

 

[Chados]

You can break the pills. It doesnt matter if it's 31 or 35 or 30 just kinda take about half. And this is not a strong product so 10 might even be an overdose. It's hard to say the exact amounts normally with aas you go 40 then 20 so to your point they are 20 yes and that's why people take it like that. That doesn't mean you need 40 to kickstart .. people think better safe than sorry you know.

 

[Chados]

Oh really? At what mg? Epi is far from the best bulker in the ph world and compared to aas it's nothing. Epi is like a winstrol or anavar (ph) at best

 

[pyrobatt]

Hi all,

New to this forum and just wondering if anyone can educate me.

Im 27, 5ft 8, 140lbs at 12/14% body fat.

I have 2 prohormones. Genetic Rebuild SD Rebuild and Genetic Rebuild Epi.

I am looking to recomp my body. So was thinking of using epi at 40mg each day for 6 weeks.

My question is, will MMA have an impact on the gains? As I want to build as much muscle as possible and MMA classes will be high cardio. Will this create more fat loss than anything or isit not worth using at all?

Also will it be better to eat at maintanence or surplus?

Thanks

Mma matches may have some negatives regarding gains. How well does your broken nose heal and will it prevent training? Lol

Serious note, shouldn't hurt. In fact, great way to train for an aesthetic physique.

I would say the major thing to look out for is lethargy. This can be fixed by either using a test base or sometimes increasing serotonin. Test base preferred. 5htp or other serotonin increasing supps as an alternative.

In the absence of estrogen and test you will eventually run into lethargy.

Chaos and pain sells a test base of sorts although I'm not here to advertise.
If you're interested, look into chemical 4.

 

[rtmilburn]

Oh really? At what mg? Epi is far from the best bulker in the ph world and compared to aas it's nothing. Epi is like a winstrol or anavar (ph) at best

Haha face palm!!!! GTFO seriously you don't know ****. Anavar is one of, if not the best, steriod at building real muscle mass. Just because something doesn't throw on 20lbs of, glycogen and/or estrogen induced, water retention doesn't mean it's not a bulker. Epi is as good at putting on lean muscle mass; as any designer out there. Superdrols effects will be more quick and drastic but you can only run it for 4 weeks and you lose a ton in pct.(the water weight) Other than masteron and proviron all steriods can be used to bulk. Some just put extra water weight on you the you WILL lose in pct. If it is his first cycle and his diet is right 15lbs of keepable muscle from epi is totally realistic.

 

[Chados]

Really? So now you're saying you are on longer cycles and on higher doses and it's still strong? You're saying that anavar is one of the best to build mass? It's easily one of the worst. What do you mean by real muscle mass? Do you get fake muscles from test? Dbol? Anavar is mild and expensive and women use it. You cant possibly compare one thing that you run for longer and a higher doses with something you run for 3-4 weeks on. I have gained more than 10 on epi but I do that on everything and I stand by that epistane and anavar aren't great bulkers and works way better to polish or to cut.

 

[rtmilburn]

Really? So now you're saying you are on longer cycles and on higher doses and it's still strong? You're saying that anavar is one of the best to build mass? It's easily one of the worst. What do you mean by real muscle mass? Do you get fake muscles from test? Dbol? Anavar is mild and expensive and women use it. You cant possibly compare one thing that you run for longer and a higher doses with something you run for 3-4 weeks on. I have gained more than 10 on epi but I do that on everything and I stand by that epistane and anavar aren't great bulkers and works way better to polish or to cut.

Fuk you. Seriously don't know sh!t. And yes you don't put on 20 fuking pounds of real muscle on dbol you put on maybe 10 of muscle and at least another 10 of water weight. Just because something doesn't but on sh!t tons of water weight on doesn't make it a bad bulker. Run test and var then run test and dbol see which cycle gives more lbs after pct is complete? I will bet my left nut the var group wins that, which actually makes it the better bulker.

 

[rtmilburn]

Seriously op(@m90) do not take advice from someone who has only 51 post. Listen to Woody pyrobatt The_Old_Guy they know their stuff. They have been here forever and are experienced.

Unlike Chados who can't identify the difference between water weight and muscle(what's next you gonna tell me tbol also a sh!tty bulker too)

 

[rtmilburn]

Seriously op( M90 ) do not take advice from someone who has only 51 post. Listen to Woody pyrobatt The_Old_Guy they know their stuff. They have been here forever and are experienced.

Unlike Chados who can't identify the difference between water weight and muscle(what's next you gonna tell me tbol also a sh!tty bulker too)

 

[Chados]

Haha so mad its unbelievable. . Talking about raging on anavar are you? My posts got nothing to do with my experience you fool. You have no argument what so ever except saying you put on water on dbol which I haven't denied at all so that's not an argument. Sir you are an absolute rookie if you believe that anavar is a great bulker, just the way you reply and the insane arguments with putting words in my mouth and at the same time not really backing up anything of what you said make me think you're 18 and you spent a lot of money on anavar. I also love how you say don't listen to him, listen to these guys they know, that's the stupidest argument ive ever heard.. you're basically gonna listen to people because you (think) knows because they have more posts. You have 4500 posts almost, and what do you know? NOTHING. You don't just blindly believe what people you dont know says, you ask for an opinion and if you're smart enough you double check it with other people. I can guarantee you that if this guy goes on the internet and types in anavar as bulker he will believe me and not you.

 

[rtmilburn]

Haha so mad its unbelievable. . Talking about raging on anavar are you? My posts got nothing to do with my experience you fool. You have no argument what so ever except saying you put on water on dbol which I haven't denied at all so that's not an argument. Sir you are an absolute rookie if you believe that anavar is a great bulker, just the way you reply and the insane arguments with putting words in my mouth and at the same time not really backing up anything of what you said make me think you're 18 and you spent a lot of money on anavar. I also love how you say don't listen to him, listen to these guys they know, that's the stupidest argument ive ever heard.. you're basically gonna listen to people because you (think) knows because they have more posts. You have 4500 posts almost, and what do you know? NOTHING. You don't just blindly believe what people you dont know says, you ask for an opinion and if you're smart enough you double check it with other people. I can guarantee you that if this guy goes on the internet and types in anavar as bulker he will believe me and not you.

No I'm not out of control mad. I just hate stupid people. You can cut on any steriod and you bulk on any steriod. Diet is the factor the rest is water weight. Are gonna tell me tren sucks at bulking too? The matter of the fact is the a 6 week epi will lead to similar if not greater kept muscle mass after pct then a 4 week sd cycle.(which makes it the better bulker)

 

[Chados]

I would never say tren is a bad bulker but that's tren not anavar. Were talking about anavar here and epi. You have the need to call people names and you can't tell me what compounds you've used to compare your information. Everybody knows diet is everything but there are maybe 10-15 extremly popular steroids like deca dbol tren test winstrol tbol etc etc. Anavar is on the absolute bottom here and I bet the reason why you say this is because it's mild and because you've never used an injection so you rather pay the price of anavar. Guess what? I don't care, if it makes you happy and you like it go for it, but my opinion and thank god I don't have to listen to your is that anavar sucks. and since you mentioned tren.. this is the best overall compound , cut bulk whatever you're gong get some serious lean mass and you can get away with eating something bad sometimes but it's extremly harsh.

 

[rtmilburn]

I would never say tren is a bad bulker but that's tren not anavar. Were talking about anavar here and epi. You have the need to call people names and you can't tell me what compounds you've used to compare your information. Everybody knows diet is everything but there are maybe 10-15 extremly popular steroids like deca dbol tren test winstrol tbol etc etc. Anavar is on the absolute bottom here and I bet the reason why you say this is because it's mild and because you've never used an injection so you rather pay the price of anavar. Guess what? I don't care, if it makes you happy and you like it go for it, but my opinion and thank god I don't have to listen to your is that anavar sucks. and since you mentioned tren.. this is the best overall compound , cut bulk whatever you're gong get some serious lean mass and you can get away with eating something bad sometimes but it's extremly harsh.

Also you clearly haven't used real var. Var is well known legend for putting on keepable lean body mass. You saying how var sucks shows you don't known much and you've probably never used it or if you did it was clearly fake. At least we can agree the tren is great at about everything if you can handle it.

 

[Chados]

I'm asking you what you're basing that anavar is so good? I don't think anavar is useless at all. It's definitely more effective then using nothing but if you're saying it's so good I would like to know what you compare it with? Since you're not denying what I said i belive you haven't used test as an example, winstrol? Primo? Anything? I have used epi, I have used anavar.. I love anavar because its not so toxic just like epistane , you feel good and safe during cycle and you will notice something if you're in the right condition. The only thing I question is why people and this is coming from a guy who was scared using test for years, why do people use anavar 5-10 times a year instead of using test one or two times? Why don't people stack anavar with test? That would make way more sense to me as a cycle. Woman can benefit greatly from anavar but as a man it's just not that strong, and on top of that it's so damn expensive. Hey if you have the money or if you don't wanna take test by all means but at one point you'll have to go higher and higher and the price will be insane and the results will be less then on a single test cycle.

 

[M90]

Well this has escalated lol

I've started my cycle today. So I've took my first capsule this morning.

I'm gonna go with 20/20/40/40/40/40 so I still get 4 weeks at 40mg and 2 weeks to get it going. Im currently on a 40/40/20 macro split so 160g Protein 160g Carbs and 40g Fats - I am looking to reduce my bofy fat and gain lean muscle even if its 7lbs.

I will be doing pct with Nolva at 20/20/10/10

Ive read epi has a half life of 7 hours? So take with breakfast and one with post workout meal/dinner.

Also guys, does epi ruin your sex drive or anything? I'm gna be seeing my gf nearer the end of 6th week so wondering what will happen lol

 

[rtmilburn]

I'm asking you what you're basing that anavar is so good? I don't think anavar is useless at all. It's definitely more effective then using nothing but if you're saying it's so good I would like to know what you compare it with? Since you're not denying what I said i belive you haven't used test as an example, winstrol? Primo? Anything? I have used epi, I have used anavar.. I love anavar because its not so toxic just like epistane , you feel good and safe during cycle and you will notice something if you're in the right condition. The only thing I question is why people and this is coming from a guy who was scared using test for years, why do people use anavar 5-10 times a year instead of using test one or two times? Why don't people stack anavar with test? That would make way more sense to me as a cycle. Woman can benefit greatly from anavar but as a man it's just not that strong, and on top of that it's so damn expensive. Hey if you have the money or if you don't wanna take test by all means but at one point you'll have to go higher and higher and the price will be insane and the results will be less then on a single test cycle.

test is best of course not arguing that. I could see how I may have implied other wise but that's is not what I meant. Anything taken should be taken with test. Other than that I'm done arguing with you. Im out of this thread as arguing with you is not going anywhere. Even though var is by far the best oral, for literally any goal. Epi is good bulker. I'll take 12-15 pounds of epi, that you almost all of after pct(if a good pct) over 20-25 on sd that you loose 10-15ish during pct(no matter how good pct is)

 

[Chados]

I also take epi ahead of sdrol for several reasons but that doesn't mean it's stronger. You still haven't answered my question so I'll just leave it at that. Agree to disagree

 

[Chados]

Sorry for that. I can't promise anything cause nobody can. I highly doubt you'll notice any sideeffect at all even without nolva. I think 7lbs is a good goal to have on epi cause you don't wanna really bulk on it. You want lean gains that's when it shines. If you decide to do it again, if you keep the gains I don't see it being as effective at all and that's worth thinking about. You can split the dosage that's correct, id say it's more for steady bloodlevels than for gains so whatevers more convenient for you.

 

[rtmilburn]

Sorry for that. I can't promise anything cause nobody can. I highly doubt you'll notice any sideeffect at all even without nolva. I think 7lbs is a good goal to have on epi cause you don't wanna really bulk on it. You want lean gains that's when it shines. If you decide to do it again, if you keep the gains I don't see it being as effective at all and that's worth thinking about. You can split the dosage that's correct, id say it's more for steady bloodlevels than for gains so whatevers more convenient for you.

This is my very last post here. I really don't want to agrue anymore. Although if he wants to bulk, there is ZERO reason not to. Epi is also well suited for bulking. This is a decision op needs to make. Although it does seem he'd rather recomp. And I agree 7lbs for a recomp is a good goal.

 

[Chados]

I'm.not arguing with you. I was earlier discussing with you and we clearly have different opinions and you jumped on me so I only asked you a simple question, what do you have to back it up with? Personal experience with other compounds? You decided not to answer that. My opinion stands and I'm comparing it to other compounds not comparing it to being natural because then there's no competition. I will let you have your opinion cause as long as I can't convince you there's no point in talking about it and same goes the other way around.

 

[Woody]

Oh really? At what mg? Epi is far from the best bulker in the ph world and compared to aas it's nothing. Epi is like a winstrol or anavar (ph) at best

I didn't read the rest of the arguments... so this may have been covered, but Epi is far from like Winstrol or Anavar. Var for males has to be run at an insanely costly dose, so lets throw that out. Epi is an AAS on its own - its not a prohormone. Regardless, Epi on a solid diet can add solid lean mass. Epistane is stronger than Halodrol. You won't blow up like SD or Dbol, but you aren't adding a ton of glycogen or water weight. Regardless, most people run Dbol with test so its not exactly an apple:apple comparison.

TL;DR: Epi is versatile. Great cutter, solid bulker. Will add lean mass, but all depends on diet and training.

 

[CatSnake]

I've only got superdrol and Epi. I bought epi to cut fat and superdrol do bulk in winter.

Id be going MMA classes 2/3 times a week and weight training 2 days a week but full body compounds with 1 extra exercise per body part.

I was actually initially wanted to cut but seeing as I dont really weigh much, I am thinking of a recomposition. So cut fat while gaining muscle. I've read either eat at maintanence or surplus would be best - just wondering if anyone done this before? I am thinking keep proteings high whilst carbs mid range.

is your goal to be better at MMA or compete, or is it just something you enjoy doing?

I'll be honest-these are both 2 compounds that I would never take when training MMA. SD made me feel like crap all the time (although it did increase my strength and size) and Epi dried me out so much my joints were constantly killing me, and made it hard to want to work out.

 

[Chados]

The gains made are very close is what I mean. None of these are huge bulker but they add nice mean mass .. I considered it a ph as it's marketed as such

 

[M90]

Sorry for that. I can't promise anything cause nobody can. I highly doubt you'll notice any sideeffect at all even without nolva. I think 7lbs is a good goal to have on epi cause you don't wanna really bulk on it. You want lean gains that's when it shines. If you decide to do it again, if you keep the gains I don't see it being as effective at all and that's worth thinking about. You can split the dosage that's correct, id say it's more for steady bloodlevels than for gains so whatevers more convenient for you.

I've done epi before at 30mg for 4 weeks and I didn't have many sides and only did pct for 2 weeks so it made me think it was bunk. This is why ive decided to do 40mg and a longer cycle.

 

[M90]

This is my very last post here. I really don't want to agrue anymore. Although if he wants to bulk, there is ZERO reason not to. Epi is also well suited for bulking. This is a decision op needs to make. Although it does seem he'd rather recomp. And I agree 7lbs for a recomp is a good goal.

Yes I am looking to recomp. Sd for bulk in winter.

 

[M90]

is your goal to be better at MMA or compete, or is it just something you enjoy doing?

I'll be honest-these are both 2 compounds that I would never take when training MMA. SD made me feel like crap all the time (although it did increase my strength and size) and Epi dried me out so much my joints were constantly killing me, and made it hard to want to work out.

I enjoy doing some form of martial art so will be doing 1 day kickboxing and 1 day mma. I won't be competing just for self defence really.

And I just want to gain muscle and have a fightere physic. Tbh my joints are already aching from heavy lifting.

I was 8 stones 3 years ago. Went up to 12 stones with some fat and now down to 10 stone at around 12% bf - so looking to recomp and lose fat whilst going up to 11 stone lean.

 

[Chados]

Alright well then you got my point I've been trying to make here. It's not that strong is it? The most important thing while taking steroids to get a lean look is to be in shape already, the problem isn't to gain muscles but if you're not in shape you'll end up like a strongman body and not like a bodybuilder. Now you seem to be in decent shape so you should be able to see results quickly. One tip is to not lift that heavy, yes you can lift heavy but to build especially on steroids you want the muscle to burn and you won't get that by lifting a dumbell twice because it's too heavy. Aim for a weight that you can only lift 12 times, if you can do 13 you do that, if the next set is 11 so be it. The only time you should do 1-5 is when you've been working out and you're about to leave the gym and just holding a dumbell hurts. Reason behind this is that you're able to push yourself way more now and the recovery will be much better.

 

[M90]

Alright well then you got my point I've been trying to make here. It's not that strong is it? The most important thing while taking steroids to get a lean look is to be in shape already, the problem isn't to gain muscles but if you're not in shape you'll end up like a strongman body and not like a bodybuilder. Now you seem to be in decent shape so you should be able to see results quickly. One tip is to not lift that heavy, yes you can lift heavy but to build especially on steroids you want the muscle to burn and you won't get that by lifting a dumbell twice because it's too heavy. Aim for a weight that you can only lift 12 times, if you can do 13 you do that, if the next set is 11 so be it. The only time you should do 1-5 is when you've been working out and you're about to leave the gym and just holding a dumbell hurts. Reason behind this is that you're able to push yourself way more now and the recovery will be much better.

Well Im not gna lie and say I gained loads but then again I had a high fat percentage and a bad diet.

I've lost alot of fat now and cleaned my diet up since then so hopefully should see better results.

Yh ive read to do hypertrophy training during the cycle so high reps and heavy strength during pct. So I was thinking mixing it up. So for example on chest day id do heavy flat bench but lower incline bench.

 

[M90]

Just an update guys. I've been on Epi for 5 and half weeks.

First week I had major lethargy and problems sleeping. After 2 weeks I have been fine no lethargy or sleeping issues. This could be due to increasing my vitamin C and Iron intake but don't know.

However, I have not gained anything from the PH!! I have been eating either under maintenance or just at maintenance and have not lost fat, or increased strength or anything! If anything I feel smaller as if I've lost muscle!? �� I have been training alot harder though so not sure if this is linked to anything?

Or if the Epi is bunk?!!?

Now I want to bulk but not dirty bulk. Can anyone advise what the best surplus would work? Without gaining fat?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Just an update guys. I've been on Epi for 5 and half weeks.

Epi/DHT only will drop Testosterone levels (ie. Anavar, Masteron, Proviron etc.. definitely will - 2 Step PHs might to a lesser degree due to conversion rates being a "who knows how much" type of deal). For males, DHT drugs are usually taken alongside Testosterone. At least that's what I hear from guys like Skip Hill, Jordan Peters, Dr. Scott Stevens, S2H, etc... Add 4-AD and see if things get better?

 

[Sphinx12]

Add 4-AD and see if things get better?

Isn't it a little late to add the 4-AD? He is 5.5 weeks in already.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Isn't it a little late to add the 4-AD? He is 5.5 weeks in already.

I don't know - maybe, maybe not if he was planning a 12 weeker? I didn't read all the details.