1 Androsterone / 4 Androsterone Cycle/PCT?

[Bkontrol365]

I started a cycle of "1 andro max v2" and "4 andro max" from Primevel Labs 5 days ago. doing 1 pill of each twice a day (recommended dose) . first time using any type of ph never done aas. planning on running it 6 to 8 weeks
Don't flame me i know i should have pct in order before starting cycle, I procrastinated BUT I'm ordering my things right now (they'll be here in 2 weeks) had a few questions.
Is this cycle known for being heavy on negative sides? am i going to need something like arimidex on hand, should this be used only in a gyno related emergency or through out the cycle for prevention of something bad like gyno
i take animal pak multi vitamin, i was planning on doing clomid 50/25/25/25 at end of cycle . i notice nolva is cheaper , is there any reason for this is nolva lower quality pct or would that be a good alternative to the clomid, doing nolva 20/20/10/10? Should i take a test booster through out my cycle or at the end of my cycle or this even necessary? And if it is can you guys recommend a good brand? Thanks for any responses and all input will be much appreciated

i ask because i don't want to waste my money on things i'm not going to really need on a s cycle of this sort. or that are going to be counter productive to my gains, thanks

 

[csline]

Your dosage is considered on the "low" side of the spectrum, but, this is dependent on size and weight...provide age/height/weight if possible....most people will take 300-400mg of 1-andro and 4-andro each. Of course the companies will recommended less than this so that if somebody wrecks their sh**, they can stand and say, well hey, we didn't recommend they take that.

A cycle of 1+4 andro will be (should be) light on the negative sides, HOWEVER, these are prohormones and the sides will vary person to person. In this light, it can still be said that 1-andro should display minimal negative side effects, as this compound will convert to 1-testosterone, just slightly different than the endogenous and natural hormone of regular testosterone, and as a result it does not convert to estrogen. In the world of PH's and AAS, estrogen is what accounts for most of the "negative side effects", less the DHT based steroids which carry negative side effects as well.

4-andro will convert to good ol' regular testosterone, and therefore can have some side effects (because our bodies concert test into a number of things including DHT and estrogen) however the rate at which 4-andro is shown to convert to actual testosterone and then into other compounds is pretty low, so the side effects coincide to be low as well. This is where the overall trend will say "hey, don't worry about an AI because odds are nothing bad will happen", but the individual might say, "hey, I'm sensitive to estrogen related sides and therefor I want an AI on hand just in case." ....my opinion, and in answer to your question: Arimidex should only be used if needed. I wouldn't expect any estro sides from 4-andro (especially at your dosage) minus perhaps a small bit of bloat/water retation AT MOST.

Clomid would be my recommended PCT option for a 1+4 andro stack. Nolva is a good option too, however Nolva really shines in preventing post cycle estrogen from becoming elevated, where as Clomid really shines in restarting natural testosterone production. Some cycles of PH's/AAS will lead the body to having low levels of estrogen, and then come post cycle, the body will ramp up estrogen production 10 fold. This can cause estrogen related side effects after the cycle, and this is where Nolvadex is really a great option. Some other cycles won't cause much estrogen suppression, and therefor the post cycle phase won't put the user at as much risk for estrogen related side effects (aka post cycle rebound). A cycle of 1+4 andro won't cause estrogen suppression and therefore Clomid is the better option in my option. Clomid commonly carries with it some side effects (mood sensitivity, visual changes), and I would probably recommended a dosage of 50/25/25/12.5. The "standard" dosage is 50/50/25/25, but I find that to be excessive for a cycle of 1+4 andro. Again, this will come down to A/H/W. However, I wouldn't complain about the dosage you proposed either.

Lastly, there is NO need for a test booster during cycle, as your test levels will be carried by natural production+conversion of 4-andro. If anything, use the natural test booster half way through PCT and continue for as long as you have the supply.

Hope this answers your questions.

 

[Afi140]

^didn't read all of the text but looks like he covered all the major aspects in depth. Get a serm and don't take a test booster during cycle, add one in pct. something comprehensive like OL testify or kings blood would be nice additions.

 

[Bkontrol365]

Your dosage is considered on the "low" side of the spectrum, but, this is dependent on size and weight...provide age/height/weight if possible....most people will take 300-400mg of 1-andro and 4-andro each. Of course the companies will recommended less than this so that if somebody wrecks their sh**, they can stand and say, well hey, we didn't recommend they take that.

A cycle of 1+4 andro will be (should be) light on the negative sides, HOWEVER, these are prohormones and the sides will vary person to person. In this light, it can still be said that 1-andro should display minimal negative side effects, as this compound will convert to 1-testosterone, just slightly different than the endogenous and natural hormone of regular testosterone, and as a result it does not convert to estrogen. In the world of PH's and AAS, estrogen is what accounts for most of the "negative side effects", less the DHT based steroids which carry negative side effects as well.

4-andro will convert to good ol' regular testosterone, and therefore can have some side effects (because our bodies concert test into a number of things including DHT and estrogen) however the rate at which 4-andro is shown to convert to actual testosterone and then into other compounds is pretty low, so the side effects coincide to be low as well. This is where the overall trend will say "hey, don't worry about an AI because odds are nothing bad will happen", but the individual might say, "hey, I'm sensitive to estrogen related sides and therefor I want an AI on hand just in case." ....my opinion, and in answer to your question: Arimidex should only be used if needed. I wouldn't expect any estro sides from 4-andro (especially at your dosage) minus perhaps a small bit of bloat/water retation AT MOST.

Clomid would be my recommended PCT option for a 1+4 andro stack. Nolva is a good option too, however Nolva really shines in preventing post cycle estrogen from becoming elevated, where as Clomid really shines in restarting natural testosterone production. Some cycles of PH's/AAS will lead the body to having low levels of estrogen, and then come post cycle, the body will ramp up estrogen production 10 fold. This can cause estrogen related side effects after the cycle, and this is where Nolvadex is really a great option. Some other cycles won't cause much estrogen suppression, and therefor the post cycle phase won't put the user at as much risk for estrogen related side effects (aka post cycle rebound). A cycle of 1+4 andro won't cause estrogen suppression and therefore Clomid is the better option in my option. Clomid commonly carries with it some side effects (mood sensitivity, visual changes), and I would probably recommended a dosage of 50/25/25/12.5. The "standard" dosage is 50/50/25/25, but I find that to be excessive for a cycle of 1+4 andro. Again, this will come down to A/H/W. However, I wouldn't complain about the dosage you proposed either.

Lastly, there is NO need for a test booster during cycle, as your test levels will be carried by natural production+conversion of 4-andro. If anything, use the natural test booster half way through PCT and continue for as long as you have the supply.

Hope this answers your questions.

I couldn't have asked for a better response! Thanks for sharing your knowledge on the subject. To answer your questions, i'm 24, 6"1, i've been lifting seriously for close to 3 yrs now my starting weight was 127 lbs (same ht as i am right now i was beyond skinny a true "hard gainer" started lifting to put on lean mass and to get out of the skinny kid category. also because i found a big passion for bb) my weight now i fluctuate between 164-168 . i've acquired my weight gains by constantly being in a calorie surplus, eating and training smart. I decided to try a ph to up my weight and strength gains

 

[Bkontrol365]

^didn't read all of the text but looks like he covered all the major aspects in depth. Get a serm and don't take a test booster during cycle, add one in pct. something comprehensive like OL testify or kings blood would be nice additions.

I couldn't find too many solid reviews on kings blood i found it for 49.99 . is this better than erosion would you say? I'd really like to run a t booster in conjunction with my pct

 

[csline]

I couldn't have asked for a better response! Thanks for sharing your knowledge on the subject. To answer your questions, i'm 24, 6"1, i've been lifting seriously for close to 3 yrs now my starting weight was 127 lbs (same ht as i am right now i was beyond skinny a true "hard gainer" started lifting to put on lean mass and to get out of the skinny kid category. also because i found a big passion for bb) my weight now i fluctuate between 164-168 . i've acquired my weight gains by constantly being in a calorie surplus, eating and training smart. I decided to try a ph to up my weight and strength gains

Age looks good, weight lifting experience looks good, and yes, obviously at 6'0" and 168 pounds you are very lean!!!! In this light, yea I'd say start out at 2 tabs per day. Since PL doses their products at 100mg per tab, this will put you at 200mg each. Overall, you should run this cycle for MINIMUM 6 weeks. You will want to run for 7-8 weeks though. Trust me. It won't be until week 4-5 to where you'll be saying, "nice, I can feel this stuff starting to work!" And then to only have 1-2 weeks left!? Blasphemy! Lol. 7-8 weeks is probably what you will feel to be best. Also, no harm in running the 200mg each for weeks 1-4, and then, if feeling OK, up the dosage to 300mg each. This may or may not require you to buy more bottles though. So up to you.

I think you're taking the right approach man. Again I recommend you get some Clomid for PCT, but Nolva will work just fine as well. As long as you have a SERM you're in good hands.

 

[Bkontrol365]

Age looks good, weight lifting experience looks good, and yes, obviously at 6'0" and 168 pounds you are very lean!!!! In this light, yea I'd say start out at 2 tabs per day. Since PL doses their products at 100mg per tab, this will put you at 200mg each. Overall, you should run this cycle for MINIMUM 6 weeks. You will want to run for 7-8 weeks though. Trust me. It won't be until week 4-5 to where you'll be saying, "nice, I can feel this stuff starting to work!" And then to only have 1-2 weeks left!? Blasphemy! Lol. 7-8 weeks is probably what you will feel to be best. Also, no harm in running the 200mg each for weeks 1-4, and then, if feeling OK, up the dosage to 300mg each. This may or may not require you to buy more bottles though. So up to you.

I think you're taking the right approach man. Again I recommend you get some Clomid for PCT, but Nolva will work just fine as well. As long as you have a SERM you're in good hands.

cool bro so i only have enough for a 4 week run, i'm going to order another month supply, i will see how i feel in the last month. If i up the dose to 300mg/day the last month supply will only be good for a 20 day run i will see how i feel! I'm going to place my order tomorrow night for sure getting clomid . Still not decided if i should get arimidex . and in conjunction with the clomid i want to take a t booster i'm looking at kings blood and erosion right now.

 

[Afi140]

Edit-posted twice.

 

[Afi140]

I couldn't find too many solid reviews on kings blood i found it for 49.99 . is this better than erosion would you say? I'd really like to run a t booster in conjunction with my pct

Kings blood formula is much much more comprehensive than erosion. I used a bottle last pct and loved it.

 

[Bkontrol365]

Kings blood formula is much much more comprehensive than erosion. I used a bottle last pct and loved it.

Looks like I'm going to add kings blood to the pct then. Planning on doing a log so i can put my review on that andro stack. Planning to go back to my 5x5 training method and see where my strength and gains can go

 

[Afi140]

Looks like I'm going to add kings blood to the pct then. Planning on doing a log so i can put my review on that andro stack. Planning to go back to my 5x5 training method and see where my strength and gains can go

Sounds good. Link me itt and I'll follow the ride

 

[Bkontrol365]

Sounds good. Link me itt and I'll follow the ride

Will do thanks for bro

 

[Bkontrol365]

Will do thanks for bro

*the reply

 

[JahCure]

Looks like I'm going to add kings blood to the pct then. Planning on doing a log so i can put my review on that andro stack. Planning to go back to my 5x5 training method and see where my strength and gains can go

Add in some more high volume stuff if you want to maximize gains and then drop reps and go for strength in PCT.

 

[Bkontrol365]

Add in some more high volume stuff if you want to maximize gains and then drop reps and go for strength in PCT.

Hey bro you're saying in order to get most out of this cycle i should do higher volume higher reps drop set super set style training. Then jump on a 5x5 style training in PCT ? Thanks

 

[elo76]

I agree with JahCure

Increase the volume. Up the reps/sets. When you hit PCT drop down to 3x5 or go with 3x3 like i do.

Here's an example...on cycle. I will do 5x5 for my main lift, but will do sets of 10,12 or 15 for my other exercises.

During PCT, I drop my main lift to 3x3 and so sets of 4-6 for my other exercises to preserve the muscle.

Keep your calories up during PCT.

 

[Bkontrol365]

I agree with JahCure

Increase the volume. Up the reps/sets. When you hit PCT drop down to 3x5 or go with 3x3 like i do.

Here's an example...on cycle. I will do 5x5 for my main lift, but will do sets of 10,12 or 15 for my other exercises.

During PCT, I drop my main lift to 3x3 and so sets of 4-6 for my other exercises to preserve the muscle.

Keep your calories up during PCT.

I'm going to adopt this method . for example today is lower body. Squat i will do 5 sets 5 reps then for leg extensions leg curls and such i will do 12 to 15 reps . til i feel that burn / pump. Do you suggest i do My last set till failure during cycle, for isolated muscle exercises? Thanks

 

[elo76]

You could but I prefer to add weight each time for a progressive overload.

 

[Bkontrol365]

You could but I prefer to add weight each time for a progressive overload.

That's the plan, to add 5 lbs to my main lifts each week. Thanks for your suggestions bro

 

[elo76]

That's the plan, to add 5 lbs to my main lifts each week. Thanks for your suggestions bro

No problem. I kind of plan it out so at the end of my 5x5 I'm pushing more weight than the last time I ran it. Then I switch to 3x5 bump up the weight, then 3x3. I run each one for a month, then repeat. I usually throw some DC training in there for 2-4 weeks to mix it up. Doing this I've added alot of weight to my main lifts quickly. One thing to note is that as my main lifts go up in weight, my accessory lifts go up in reps (except PCT) to keep the volume up. For example....5x5 mains/6-8 acc, 3x5 mains/12-15 acc. You get the picture. I run those on cycle. Then I drop the volume for PCT and run 3x3 mains/4-6 acc.

 

[Joseph2288]

I did a1 and 4 andro cycle recently. I just kept it simple and bought a pct off amazon works great its called mega pct

 

[csline]

I did a1 and 4 andro cycle recently. I just kept it simple and bought a pct off amazon works great its called mega pct

....oh lawd

 

[SwoleNation]

Good info in this thread... Nice work gentleman.

 

[Bkontrol365]

What's up everyone it's the start of the 4th week of my 1 Andro 4 Andro stack wanted to give everybody who's reading an update on what I've experienced so far. So the first 7 to 10 days i felt lethargic and really wasn't liking it, i was feeling bummed and quite frankly pretty unmotivated. I don't know if it's because of the prohormones i know the effects are different for every person but what i can report was that the first week i broke out with acne on my face and neck. Not only that, the 5th day into it i started noticing my nipples. . . which terrified me because of all the gyno horror stories I've read. When i say i started noticing my nipples what i mean is for no reason at all for the first week my nipples were constantly hard. My nipples never pointed thru my shirt the way they did when i started the cycle. It turned me off to the whole thing and tbh i at one point considered stopping the cycle.

Well i didn't, i ordered nolva, arimidex (even tho i don't think i need it anymore) and decided to follow thru with the cycle and i think i came to a conclusion that i had "mental gyno" . as soon as i stopped thinking about it the pointy nipple thing went away. Going into the 2nd week i started to enjoy it my workouts were going great and my energy levels were pretty high. Oh yeah Also i have to add that i haven't taken a pre workout since i started my cycle, i don't even need it! And i sweat get super focused and get insane pumps just like when I'd take a scoop pre workout. (I usually take "sidewalk kraka")
Approaching the end of 2nd week and going into the 3rd week I'm now really starting to enjoy it i can't say my strength is through the roof or has dramatically increased BUT i push for more reps then i did before!
What i can also report is that i get really sore after my workouts almost feels like when you first start resistance training and you get crazy sore the first couple sessions. I don't know if this is 1 or 4 andro working or if it's a cause of me pushing for more reps.

So now I'm liking it. This last 4 days i bumped up the dose to 300mg each per day . i feel like it's working a lot better and im excited to continue the cycle.

If you have any questions feel free to ask!

 

[elo76]

On my first run ever of andros I felt like poo for the first 2 weeks. Luckily everyone motivated me to stick it out. I'm glad I did.

 

[Bkontrol365]

Yeah that's how i was feeling, terrible for the first 10 days, after the 2 weeks it subsided i'm 2 days from hitting the one month mark and i have to say, i'm feeling great. having upped the dose to 300mgs of each per day has definitely made me feel like it's really working

 

[JoePaul39]

What would you say is the highest does one can run of 1 andro by itself and still see increased returns?

 

[Bkontrol365]

What would you say is the highest does one can run of 1 andro by itself and still see increased returns?

I wouldn't be able to tell you and i don't think Any of the bros on here will either, we don't know if you've done ph's or aas your lifting experience what results you're looking for or your age or stats.

 

[JoePaul39]

I wouldn't be able to tell you and i don't think Any of the bros on here will either, we don't know if you've done ph's or aas your lifting experience what results you're looking for or your age or stats.

Im 39, a pathetic 23.5% bodyfat, and have been lifting on and off my whole life, but only consistently for about the last year and a half. My goal is to lose body fat as quickly as possible. I am on a Keto diet and also do HIIT 4 days a week. I am at a calorie deficit of about 500 calories a day. I am currently running my first cycle of prohormones using 4 andro at 440 mg a day for an 8 week cycle. For future cycles I would like to increase the dosage, but I know from the law of diminishing returns there must be a point that if you increase the dosage too much you will no longer see returns.

 

[LAH813]

Im 39, a pathetic 23.5% bodyfat, and have been lifting on and off my whole life, but only consistently for about the last year and a half. My goal is to lose body fat as quickly as possible. I am on a Keto diet and also do HIIT 4 days a week. I am at a calorie deficit of about 500 calories a day. I am currently running my first cycle of prohormones using 4 andro at 440 mg a day for an 8 week cycle. For future cycles I would like to increase the dosage, but I know from the law of diminishing returns there must be a point that if you increase the dosage too much you will no longer see returns.

You're using the wrong Andro if you're trying to lose bf.

 

[JoePaul39]

You're using the wrong Andro if you're trying to lose bf.

Sorry...I meant to say I am taking 440 mg 1 Andro not 4 andro.

 

[LAH813]

Sorry...I meant to say I am taking 440 mg 1 Andro not 4 andro.

Lol makes more sense. I was pretty confused at your motives.
However. I think you're still doing it wrong. The Andros aren't going to help you reach your BF goal any quicker really.
Get yourself a thermogenic fat burner, get your diet in check (not just counting calories) and lift heavy ass weights. Get down to 15-16% BF then run the Andros. Particularly Epi Andro. Running at cycle at 20%bf will result in zero gains. Especially 1-andro. Also, running 1-andro by itself sounds like a mess of lethargy and sides to me.
If you're going to run 1-Andro for lean gains, you should run Epi-Andro with it.

 

[JoePaul39]

Lol makes more sense. I was pretty confused at your motives.
However. I think you're still doing it wrong. The Andros aren't going to help you reach your BF goal any quicker really.
Get yourself a thermogenic fat burner, get your diet in check (not just counting calories) and lift heavy ass weights. Get down to 15-16% BF then run the Andros. Particularly Epi Andro. Running at cycle at 20%bf will result in zero gains. Especially 1-andro. Also, running 1-andro by itself sounds like a mess of lethargy and sides to me.
If you're going to run 1-Andro for lean gains, you should run Epi-Andro with it.

I do have my diet in check. I am on a high protein/low carb diet with one high carb loading day a week. It is a diet designed by Jim Stoppani. The reason I started taking 1 andro is because when I lose say 2 pounds of weight in a week, unfortunately I lose a lot of muscle with it despite the weight training and taking a **** ton of supplements. It may be my age as I am one year shy of 40. So for example, if I lose 2 pounds in a week, typically my body fat only drops about .3%, but had the whole two pounds been fat only, given my current weight, I should have gone down 1%. I have tried only losing 1 pound a week, but I get the same results of losing muscle.. Now that I am taking 1 andro that is not happening. The weight I am losing is almost exclusively body fat. If I do a cuts without1 andro I will become "skinny fat" as I am only 195 pounds (5 foot 10) right now and like I said for every 2 pounds I drop I only seem to go down .3% fat. At that rate, if I dropped 20 pounds to 175 I would still be about 20% or 19% fat or what I call a "skinny fat" guy.

I am new to this and wasn't aware of Epi-Andro before I started the 1 andro. The next time I run a cutting cycle I will definitely be including it in my cycle with the 1 andro.