SARMs: Let's end this

SARMs opinion

  • SARMs are awesome

    Votes: 25 28.1%
  • SARMs are a waste

    Votes: 22 24.7%
  • SARMs are okay

    Votes: 42 47.2%

  • Total voters
    89
jakz

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It looks like there are 3 general schools of thought on the forum considering SARMs.

First school of thought: SARMs are incredible. They provide great gains and minimal sides.

Second school of thought: SARMs are trash. No real long term research, minimal gains, strong sides.

Third school of thought: SARMs are okay, they make a good edition to a PH/AAS cycle.

Now the SARMs in question are: LGD 4033; RAD 140; SR9009; Ostarine; S4 and YK11 ALSO including Non SARMs, but fall into the same category (Also referred to as SARMs, but are PRAD modulators etc.) Cardarine, Mk 667 and anything else I missed.

Now in which category/ school of thought do you fall into? Why? and is it based on experience or is it from what you heard/ researched?
Cjg bighulksmash booneman77 thebigt angcd3 hairygrandpa rtmilburn alphagainz Clean gene ZOO jramoska SFreed CJNator HIT4ME wesb2387 Gutterpump Tank999 DennisTheDane Danes SpicedCider ryane87 Juicedeez utz BEAST73 Alpha1agreda LeanEngineer coltonwalker Brandinooooo Sparkss Studhorse blueline438 vujade Volvo140G Chuck Diesel Ag5000 lifted67 Cjg bighulksmash thebigt hairygrandpa smith_69 rtmilburn FireTitan alphagainz Clean gene ZOO jramoska SFreed CJNator HIT4ME wesb2387 Gutterpump Tank999 DennisTheDane SpicedCider ryane87 Juicedeez utz BEAST73 Alpha1agreda LeanEngineer coltonwalker Brandinooooo Sparkss Studhorse blueline438 vujade Volvo140G Ag5000 lifted67 Jebrook halfhuman ChocolateClen justhere4comm matt8483 ryane87 nostrum420 Brandinooooo HIT4ME thebigt NewAgeMayan rtmilburn hairygrandpa DUbz86 BamBam0319
 
SFreed

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I don't have enough personal experience with SARMs to really have an opinion yet.
 
BloodManor

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I have used osta and lgd a few times now. I like them with a ph cycle but not as much as a stand alone. Osta only made me lethargic and nothing else so I will never use again. I have bridged ph cycles from a lgd cycle and found lgd to give me solid gains. If you have the extra money they are good but the lacking research is a worry for many of us.
 
yates84

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They are okay but I'd rather just pin tren. My wife thinks rad is the greatest thing ever made though.
 

franks009

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Lgd works great for me. First cycle was lgd and rad140 for a 12 week run. After pct held on to 15 solid pounds. Im currently on lgd with 125mg trest and i wish it wouldnt end lol
 
LeanEngineer

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I used ostashred a few times back when it came out but I haven't really messed sarms for awhile. I think they are a good beginner supp to start with and transition you into stronger phs.
 
ChocolateClen

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Idk anything about SARMs therefor I decline to comment and vote on this situation due to a lack of general knowledge pertaining to the topic at hand.
 
JahCure

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Based on my own experiences I won't use Osta again. If I'm going to be suppressed might as well run something with more benefit.

Mk on the other hand is great. Based on my research does not seem to have negative side effects short or long term, therefore IMO, great product.
 
DemntedCowboy

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Based on my limited experience with them. I love them as a bridge between cycles.
 
nostrum420

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Based on my own experiences I won't use Osta again. If I'm going to be suppressed might as well run something with more benefit.

Mk on the other hand is great. Based on my research does not seem to have negative side effects short or long term, therefore IMO, great product.
^this

They're all different, so, it's hard to make a blanket statement. Osta did nothing for me but I loves me some MK!
 

franks009

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Idk why people even mess with osta. From the beginning it was said to be used to help preserve muscle while on a cut. Meaning help save what u already have. Not gain. If your gonna put yourself through suppression and pct why not do something to help you gain. Just my opinion
 
vujade

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I've used Osta twice. once solo and once with EpiAndro.

I want to try it on a test cycle, because from my research it should help by lowering SHBG
and helping with more free test.

LGD is a way better bulker, but causes serious lethargy about 5 weeks in without a test base.
 
wrxwhit

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I've tried osta and LGD, biggest waste of money period!

MK is awesome especially in cruise or in pct or ****ing all the time biches :)
 
Nac

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Not sure what youre trying to "end" here OP.

Pretty obvious there will be a mixed bag of opinions. But even if there were a unanimous result, that would likely indicate more about the culture and group-think here than anything absolute about SARMs.
 
LAH813

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But really if YK11 really is a myostatin inhibitor then that is pretty incredible
 

franks009

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From person to person it varies. Some it doesnt do anything apparently and for others like myself does everything it says it will do. (Only use lgd and rad) Also the brand/purity or people going the liquid route which in fact could be bunk from the getgo could all be variables
 
jakz

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Not sure what youre trying to "end" here OP.

Pretty obvious there will be a mixed bag of opinions. But even if there were a unanimous result, that would likely indicate more about the culture and group-think here than anything absolute about SARMs.
It's just a creative title. Sounds better than "let's gather a collective opinion and give an inaccurate percentage to each train of thought" :D I just want to hear everyone's opinions.
 
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BamBam0319

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I'm in the third school of thought I guess.
I'd be on MK-677 year round if I could afford that.
I believe, even on an AAS cycle, RAD-140 gives some extra fullness and pump to the muscles, and I'm all about that. Plus I read something about it reducing SHBG or otherwise enhancing the effects of testosterone in the body.
Cardarine intrigues me but it's hard to find a place to add it in considering the effects it can have on the liver. I'd almost rather run DNP for fat loss.

I've used Osta twice. once solo and once with EpiAndro.

I want to try it on a test cycle, because from my research it should help by lowering SHBG
and helping with more free test.
Does it really? I read something about RAD doing that I think, but hadn't heard that about ostarine. Maybe I've found a use for my giant bottle of OL Osta.
 
LAH813

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I'm in the third school of thought I guess.
I'd be on MK-677 year round if I could afford that.
I believe, even on an AAS cycle, RAD-140 gives some extra fullness and pump to the muscles, and I'm all about that. Plus I read something about it reducing SHBG or otherwise enhancing the effects of testosterone in the body.
Cardarine intrigues me but it's hard to find a place to add it in considering the effects it can have on the liver. I'd almost rather run DNP for fat loss.



Does it really? I read something about RAD doing that I think, but hadn't heard that about ostarine. Maybe I've found a use for my giant bottle of OL Osta.
I too have an insane amount of OL ostarine that I haven't touch yet.
 
BamBam0319

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I too have an insane amount of OL ostarine that I haven't touch yet.
I grabbed two 360ct bottles before they stopped selling in the US. Sold one to my brother and hung on to the other just in case I ended up wanting to use it. If this is true about lowering SHBG, I'm glad I did!
 

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Third for me. I am two months deep into my SARMS cycle. Not really impressed. Possibly my source though..
 
RANS0M

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Ok from my own personal experience, lots and lots of research from other boards and you tube vids.

Ostarine - Yes it's suppressive. How suppressive? It depends on the person. I had mild suppression, while others have been almost totally **** down. Some have estro sides, some don't. First run was from Primeval Labs. I noticed taking it pre workout, I was more vascular and sweating my tits off. I woke up one day around the 2 week mark, nips were on fire so I stopped taking it, I had inhibit E on hand and did a 3 week pct of nolva with purus labs d-pol and animal stak. In about a week I was fine. I took EA's osta and had no estro sides or any of the sort but had the same vascular/swearting taking it pre workout. I have a friend who put on 15 pounds on this in 8 weeks from Primeval. Maybe it was osta maybe it wasn't.

YK11 - I have a log around here somewhere on it, I was on a cut with this, osta, 4 andro snd ignit3. From YK I didn't notice muscle gain because I was in a pretty significant deficit. My endurance, recovery between sets was thru the roof. I mean 37 reps of 135 seated overhead shoulder press. I would love to try YK on a lean bulk. No estro sides and libido was intact thru the cycle thru pct and I got bloods done a few weeks after pct and was at baseline. Others on YouTube had bloods done a couple weeks into had, looking bigger, fuller, strength gone up and test levels didn't move.

MK677 - For me, I hold a lot of water naturally, i didn't get crazy bloated on this but I craved junk food like no other, I was a bottomless pit. I eat a lot of food anyway but this was another level. I doubt I'll run it again. Didn't see much strength gain.

Cardarine/GW - I haven't run this but I've done plenty of research and I'm running this soon enough, endurance is going up that's a common factor, really good on a cut. Can also be used in pct. non hormonal. Some have didn't see any difference. Once again one these sarms that is a hit or miss with people.

S4 - I was seriously thinking of running this but the vision sides have me leaning towards the negative. Apparently you need to run this in the 75 - 100 mg's to really see effects. 50 the
Minimum. Some say winstrol like effects, most don't usually run the whole cycle because of the vision sides. I've heard running at 25mg's is ok in pct being that its only suppressive once you hit that 50 mg and again some say yes some say no. No real definite answer.

SR9009 - apparently The bioavailability is the total ****s and about 90% of people don't see any results. Non hormonal, can be used in pct but is it really worth it? Ehhh who tf knows.

LGD4033 - Haven't used this but I
Might one day. Plenty of logs in here saying 10 - 15 pounds in a 8 - 12 week cycle is legit. Suppressive, need a test base. I'd go with epi andro personally. On cycle supps like any ph/aas cycle is suggested.

EA, Neobolics are my brands of choice for this stuff.
 
RANS0M

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Oh and don't listen to that Dylan character from Isarms. He's 170 and is about 20 cycles deep, sells underdosed products and says lgd doesn't need a pct. F him.
 
sandpig

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I'm another fan of MK-677

It doesn't bloat me. Just makes me fuller and rounder

I'm usually always hungry do I've never noticed a big upswing in hunger.

Does make me a bit lethargic.

LGD I'm kinda on the fence about.

Ostarine did nothing for me.
 
BennyMagoo79

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Been running mk for 9 months and found great benefit for recomp, skin healing (crows feet have gone), and the only effective treatment for my psoriasis.

Ran LGD for 12wks and was able to gain and keep 8kg with decrease in bf.

Ran RAD for 3wks before it made me sick.

Ran s4 for 4wks with slight cal deficit and lost 3kg and reduced bf from 25% to 22%.
 
vujade

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jakz

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If I can get a hold of LGD 4033 I would love to try it.
 
ChocolateClen

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I'd rather just run some DMZ and Msten honestly and BPC for the healing. Maybe MK but that's all, wouldn't touch anything else
 

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Would you all mind explaining to me what a sarm is? And what it's used for ? Is it a pct?
 

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I have run a lower dose LGD cycle and was pleased with the results and very minimal sides. Nothing earth shattering but jumped from 197- 213 in the 8 weeks. A lot was due to the diet and training being on point and no cardio I'm sure. Held steady at 207 after PCT.

Running a supplement called Drywall now that is basically LGD and Ostarine for a short 6 week cycle pre prep and am back up to about 216-218. Again, food and training are dead on point.

Sarms are not an AAS and won't give you those results but they can be a nice boost assuming you are working hard and eating right.
 

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This is a great question for that one website called google. Try it.
Hahah a joker. Sorry for asking for information I thought you may know. No need to be rude. Again sorry for asking.
 
Sparkss

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I'm in the third school of thought I guess.
I'd be on MK-677 year round if I could afford that.
I believe, even on an AAS cycle, RAD-140 gives some extra fullness and pump to the muscles, and I'm all about that. Plus I read something about it reducing SHBG or otherwise enhancing the effects of testosterone in the body.
Cardarine intrigues me but it's hard to find a place to add it in considering the effects it can have on the liver. I'd almost rather run DNP for fat loss.



Does it really? I read something about RAD doing that I think, but hadn't heard that about ostarine. Maybe I've found a use for my giant bottle of OL Osta.
I heard the opposite about Cardarine, maybe I just didn't read up enough. Was that at the typical 10 mg dosage? or higher? Can you point to any threads/articles about the liver impacts?

I did hear that about Ostarine, especially at the levels that are typically run for body building. All of the studies that rated Osta as non-toxic (to the liver) were run at 3 mg per day.
 
Plex78

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Lgd works great for me. First cycle was lgd and rad140 for a 12 week run. After pct held on to 15 solid pounds. Im currently on lgd with 125mg trest and i wish it wouldnt end lol
When you took the rad140, did you take it all at once for your dose, or did you spread taking it throughout the day?
 
BamBam0319

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This quote is taken from a human trial

"However, sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) was significantly (P = 0.048) reduced with GTx-024 3 mg versus placebo"

Here's the study...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3177038/
Very nice! Perhaps I'll hang onto my bottle then.
Would you all mind explaining to me what a sarm is? And what it's used for ? Is it a pct?
Dude...look it up
I heard the opposite about Cardarine, maybe I just didn't read up enough. Was that at the typical 10 mg dosage? or higher? Can you point to any threads/articles about the liver impacts?

I did hear that about Ostarine, especially at the levels that are typically run for body building. All of the studies that rated Osta as non-toxic (to the liver) were run at 3 mg per day.
I'll have to dig up about cardarine, but basically it accelerates the affects of anything else you're taking that's liver-toxic - steroids, alcohol, etc. It's not toxic itself, though.
I'm not sure if it's dose dependent.
 
Sparkss

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Very nice! Perhaps I'll hang onto my bottle then.

Dude...look it up


I'll have to dig up about cardarine, but basically it accelerates the affects of anything else you're taking that's liver-toxic - steroids, alcohol, etc. It's not toxic itself, though.
I'm not sure if it's dose dependent.
Ok, thanks for the info, it seems like I have some more reading to do! :)
 
BamBam0319

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Ok, thanks for the info, it seems like I have some more reading to do! :)
yates84 can probably explain it better... and I know I found a study at one point, I'll just have to find it again! Lol
 
Toren

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I want to try it on a test cycle, because from my research it should help by lowering SHBG
and helping with more free test.
I'll be transitioning into Test/Osta/11-KT in the next 2 weeks or so. The idea is to keep the Test low and amplify it, and the anabolic nature of the cycle, without increasing the potential side-effects of higher levels of Test.

I believe, even on an AAS cycle, RAD-140 gives some extra fullness and pump to the muscles, and I'm all about that. Plus I read something about it reducing SHBG or otherwise enhancing the effects of testosterone in the body.
It does! I've been cruising on 250mg of Test-E for 2.5 months. I've used Rad-140 for appx 6-7 weeks during that time. Even @ only 8mg ED, the pumps, fullness, vascularity and fatloss is amplified versus when not using Rad. I've also seen no signs of lethargy at this dose. I think people are dosing this stuff way too high and that's one of the reasons you see lethargy as a side-effect. I used it in the past at 8mg (stacked) and as a finisher to a long cycle; I did not see any lethargy. When I used it another time at 12-16mg and stacked it with LGD, I did see lethargy. It was an experiement, I do not believe in stacking SARMs and would not do it again. I gasp when I see people using 30-50mg of Rad ED. Even though most of those products probably don't meet label claims, they're probably still using way too much.

I'm not sure of the effects of Rad on SHBG, but it was shown in testing to have some protective effects on the prostate when combined with Testosterone. My guess is that protection extends to other androgen-dense tissues as well. Likely dose-dependent though and high doses of Rad (way above clinical dosing) likely work in the opposite way. We use this stuff far in excess of clinical doses so we can't claim that the end-results will be the same, or that the side-effects will be the same.

Cardarine intrigues me but it's hard to find a place to add it in considering the effects it can have on the liver. I'd almost rather run DNP for fat loss.
I added Melanotan II in with my Test/Rad cruise. The fatloss was noticeable...and to be honest, I was out of town for most of two months so I trained maybe once or twice a week during that time period. It was not my intention but I was just too busy to train more than that. My work is physical so that helps.. Many people have said that M-II helps with fatloss. I used it at a dose lower than most people use it. I use it 2x per week @ 320-400mcg each time. Got a solid tan now too!


Does it really? I read something about RAD doing that I think, but hadn't heard that about ostarine. Maybe I've found a use for my giant bottle of OL Osta.
It does lower SHBG. This is one of the reasons why so many people have E issues while on Osta. For the last 8-10 weeks of my cycle, I am back home and ready to kick things up with my training, and I will be stacking Test-E at 300-350mg EW, along with Ostarine (OLUK) at 10-15mg ED, and TD 11-KT at 125+mg ED. I think the results will be phenomenal! I don't anticipate any negative sides at those doses either.

When I originally decided to use Osta on my Test cycle, my goal was to keep Test low to negate most androgenic side-effects often seen at higher doses, while not sacrificing the anabolic benefits of higher Test cycles. The Osta should fill the anabolic void left by lower levels of Test, without beating up my hair/prostate/skin too much.
 
Toren

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When you took the rad140, did you take it all at once for your dose, or did you spread taking it throughout the day?
It has a long enough half-life where you can take it once or twice per day, depending on what is easiest for you.

I have dosed both ways and do not notice a difference in results or otherwise.
 
Sparkss

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This quote is taken from a human trial

"However, sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) was significantly (P = 0.048) reduced with GTx-024 3 mg versus placebo"

Here's the study...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3177038/
This also talks a bit about the liver toxicity (elevated ALT levels) and that at 3mg or less (of Osta)

Here is what I took away from this study (just my observation of the points that interested me)

Baselines
(doses of 0.1, 0.3, 1 and 3 mg of GTx-024 and placebo) and were instructed to take the study medication daily for 86 days at approximately the same time each day

In men, no statistically significant differences from placebo in change from baseline values for free testosterone, DHT, estradiol, follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), or LH were observed at any GTx-024 dose
Bad (or at least not "good")
One subject was discontinued by the investigator due to ALT elevation (3-mg dose). However, the ALT elevation was not considered a serious adverse event.

The decrease in SHBG was accompanied by a reduction of serum total testosterone in subjects treated with 1 mg (P < 0.001) or 3 mg (P < 0.001) of GTx-024 compared to placebo, −6.4 ± 1.1 nmol/L and −7.4 ± 1.0 (Table 5)

Although transient increases in ALT to above the upper limit of normal were observed in eight subjects in this study, the ALT observations in seven of eight subjects had resolved while on drug such that no subject had clinically significantly, abnormal levels of ALT or AST at the end of study. One subject was discontinued due to an elevation in ALT 4.2 times the upper limit of normal. The ALT level in that subject returned to normal levels after discontinuation of the study drug.
Good
insulin resistance (calculated based on the HOMA-IR [29]) was reduced in the GTx-024 1-mg and 3-mg treatment groups

Decreases in serum triglycerides were noted in the GTx-024 1- and 3-mg-dose groups compared to placebo, with the 3-mg-dose group approaching statistical significance

sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) was significantly (P = 0.048) reduced with GTx-024 3 mg versus placebo, −15.8 ± 7.9 nmol/L.
 
BamBam0319

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I'll be transitioning into Test/Osta/11-KT in the next 2 weeks or so. The idea is to keep the Test low and amplify it, and the anabolic nature of the cycle, without increasing the potential side-effects of higher levels of Test.



It does! I've been cruising on 250mg of Test-E for 2.5 months. I've used Rad-140 for appx 6-7 weeks during that time. Even @ only 8mg ED, the pumps, fullness, vascularity and fatloss is amplified versus when not using Rad. I've also seen no signs of lethargy at this dose. I think people are dosing this stuff way too high and that's one of the reasons you see lethargy as a side-effect. I used it in the past at 8mg (stacked) and as a finisher to a long cycle; I did not see any lethargy. When I used it another time at 12-16mg and stacked it with LGD, I did see lethargy. It was an experiement, I do not believe in stacking SARMs and would not do it again. I gasp when I see people using 30-50mg of Rad ED. Even though most of those products probably don't meet label claims, they're probably still using way too much.

I'm not sure of the effects of Rad on SHBG, but it was shown in testing to have some protective effects on the prostate when combined with Testosterone. My guess is that protection extends to other androgen-dense tissues as well. Likely dose-dependent though and high doses of Rad (way above clinical dosing) likely work in the opposite way. We use this stuff far in excess of clinical doses so we can't claim that the end-results will be the same, or that the side-effects will be the same.



I added Melanotan II in with my Test/Rad cruise. The fatloss was noticeable...and to be honest, I was out of town for most of two months so I trained maybe once or twice a week during that time period. It was not my intention but I was just too busy to train more than that. My work is physical so that helps.. Many people have said that M-II helps with fatloss. I used it at a dose lower than most people use it. I use it 2x per week @ 320-400mcg each time. Got a solid tan now too!




It does lower SHBG. This is one of the reasons why so many people have E issues while on Osta. For the last 8-10 weeks of my cycle, I am back home and ready to kick things up with my training, and I will be stacking Test-E at 300-350mg EW, along with Ostarine (OLUK) at 10-15mg ED, and TD 11-KT at 125+mg ED. I think the results will be phenomenal! I don't anticipate any negative sides at those doses either.

When I originally decided to use Osta on my Test cycle, my goal was to keep Test low to negate most androgenic side-effects often seen at higher doses, while not sacrificing the anabolic benefits of higher Test cycles. The Osta should fill the anabolic void left by lower levels of Test, without beating up my hair/prostate/skin too much.
Whoops lol... I'm dosing my RAD at 30mg right now. I had most of a bottle of Focused Nutrition left and they're dosed at 15mg. Noticeable difference in physique since adding it in.
I am also using MT-II at a once to twice weekly administration. I started off using it every day or every other day, and once I reached a good tan I lowered the frequency to a maintenance type dosing. Can't say if it helps with fat loss though, too many variables. Including IM L-Carnitine the last 2 weeks.
 
Toren

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Whoops lol... I'm dosing my RAD at 30mg right now. I had most of a bottle of Focused Nutrition left and they're dosed at 15mg. Noticeable difference in physique since adding it in.
I am also using MT-II at a once to twice weekly administration. I started off using it every day or every other day, and once I reached a good tan I lowered the frequency to a maintenance type dosing. Can't say if it helps with fat loss though, too many variables. Including IM L-Carnitine the last 2 weeks.
:} How long have you been on Rad for? If you're not seeing any sides from it....all's well that ends well, I guess? I def. see increased gains from higher dosing but my goals don't dictate that I need to dose anything too high any more. I've got a bunch of years on you so I don't lift or train like I used to. You're also prepping so your dosing is going to be higher than mine regardless.

What are you initial thoughts on IM L-Car? I'm debating throwing it in for the last 8 weeks of my cycle, to enhance fatloss and also increase AR density or sensitivity (can't remember right now which one it propogates). I've tried oral in the past with minimal results. Although I have never used it on cycle...


Also, in keeping with this thread, I love SARMs (Rad/Osta/LGD). I see great gains (akin to mild AAS), without noticeable negative side-effects.
 
Tank999

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Osta doesn't seem to do anything positive for me.
Lgd makes me as strong as farq and I get to keep most of it. I'd run it all year if I could!
Mk bloated me out and I panicked out. So I did more research (duh!) and learned how to run it more intelligently.
 
BamBam0319

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:} How long have you been on Rad for? If you're not seeing any sides from it....all's well that ends well, I guess? I def. see increased gains from higher dosing but my goals don't dictate that I need to dose anything too high any more. I've got a bunch of years on you so I don't lift or train like I used to. You're also prepping so your dosing is going to be higher than mine regardless.

What are you initial thoughts on IM L-Car? I'm debating throwing it in for the last 8 weeks of my cycle, to enhance fatloss and also increase AR density or sensitivity (can't remember right now which one it propogates). I've tried oral in the past with minimal results. Although I have never used it on cycle...


Also, in keeping with this thread, I love SARMs (Rad/Osta/LGD). I see great gains (akin to mild AAS), without tnoticeable negative side-effects.
Probably not much longer than a week or two lol, I don't remember exactly. I may reduce to 15mg (1 pill) a day just to avoid sides preemptively, and extend my use of it.
I am prepping, however still more than 16 weeks out so calories are STILL increasing, and I'm damn sure gonna take advantage of it. I actually rarely lift heavy, as I'm sure you've read in my contest prep log.
So far I really like the carnitine. I sweat like crazy during my workouts and I believe it has helped in keeping me tight and lean while increasing cals. Vascularity has increased as well, which may also be attributed to the RAD, but I started the carnitine first and noticed it shortly after implementing the carnitine. DEFINITELY more worth it and effective than the oral version.
I'll not detract from this thread anymore and just talk about my non-SARMs in my log.
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

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Important question:

Did the SARMs in question come from an approved AM sponsor?
 
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