EQ Cruise Forever

[FRITZBLITZ]

I am just wondering if anyone has 1st or 2nd hand experience with this. I have read many actual training regiments that suggest PCT for 2 weeks and immediately cruise on Boldenone at 250-350mg/week and add 150iu HCG e2d and you can sustain this cruise indefinitely.

The main PROGRAM that seemed to be credible and claimed to work for 3 Olympains was a 8 month blast w tons of gear [excessive for most] and then PCT both clomid and nolva 2weeks and then cruise on EQ at 350mg/week 350iu HCG e2d and then repeat. I have read a few posts where non TRT guys have done a milder version 3-4 month blast x2/year but always on HCG as little as 100 iu e3d and then PCT and have a kid months after PCT and all numbers checked out then they went back to this PROGRAM.

I can see the basic science behind it, I'm just not convinced. Especially since this is not widely talked about. I'd like to hear opinions as this almost seems like a great way to run low dose gear long term without getting into the danger zone of complete suppression.

 

[sespress]

Would 350 not supress you that bad? Or do you think your counting on the HCG to keep you good (with the occasional serm)?

I dunno, long term trt always sounded strange to me until I read more about it, but that's identical replacement right? This is not identical - although who knows maybe the most you need worry about is hemocrit​ numbers with this.

Should be an interesting conversation!

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Would 350 not supress you that bad? Or do you think your counting on the HCG to keep you good (with the occasional serm)?

I dunno, long term trt always sounded strange to me until I read more about it, but that's identical replacement right? This is not identical - although who knows maybe the most you need worry about is hemocrit​ numbers with this.

Should be an interesting conversation!

350 was for BB. According to what I have read 250-350*mg/week doesn't suppress enough that the HCG can't compensate and keep normal test levels and the 2 week PCT is just to keep the whole hypothal-petuitary-testes loop awake once in a while.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Any ideas or opinions? This is worth a discussion!

 

[digit0x]

I can't imagine you would maintain any kind of normal HPTA function with AAS and HCG. Also, you would eventually desensitize to the HCG and your FSH and LH would likely plummet. No sources to site here this is just my initial thought.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Any ideas or opinions? This is worth a discussion!

the guy who don't want to hear from anyone, now wants everyone to chime in... dude you are a fukin train wreck.. no one is discussing it because you are the one who asked. don't go away mad.. just go away.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

You're not thinking it through. Your FSH, LH will be in dumps regardless of this cruise or reg cycle. The 2 week PCT is to wake up the HPTA and have it run for no reason but to have it not dormant. I know leydigs will desesify to HCG over 500iu at a time but at 150 e2d or e3d, This may work indefinably, keep in mind some TRT guys are on a similar HCG dose for over a decade. I'm not a huge fan of HCG for PCT or on cycle that ends in PCT but...If these guys are correct that 250-350 EQ is say 50-75% suppressive than I could see HCG making up for the lost 50%.

 

[B5150]

You're not thinking it through. Your FSH, LH will be in dumps regardless of this cruise or reg cycle. The 2 week PCT is to wake up the HPTA and have it run for no reason but to have it not dormant. I know leydigs will desesify to HCG over 500iu at a time but at 150 e2d or e3d, This may work indefinably, keep in mind some TRT guys are on a similar HCG dose for over a decade. I'm not a huge fan of HCG for PCT or on cycle that ends in PCT but...If these guys are correct that 250-350 EQ is say 50-75% suppressive than I could see HCG making up for the lost 50%.

guys who are on TRT in the physiological level experience benefits of improved health and health markers. Taking 300mg/w of EQ has very little value as an anabolic and will not improve health and health markers in the way that testosterone does. The idea of cruising endlessly on EQ alone is counter indicative to health and longevity regardless of suppression imho.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

guys who are on TRT in the physiological level experience benefits of improved health and health markers. Taking 300mg/w of EQ has very little value as an anabolic and will not improve health and health markers in the way that testosterone does. The idea of cruising endlessly on EQ alone is counter indicative to health and longevity regardless of suppression imho.

I totally agree if you are choosing 1 lifelong cruise compound. Test is Best. I'm just curios about the possibilities and benefits of even a mild version of this protocol

 

[rtmilburn]

I totally agree if you are choosing 1 lifelong cruise compound. Test is Best. I'm just curios about the possibilities and benefits of even a mild version of this protocol

Why not use a try dose of test with EQ?

 

[B5150]

I totally agree if you are choosing 1 lifelong cruise compound. Test is Best. I'm just curios about the possibilities and benefits of even a mild version of this protocol

you tell me. Increased RBC, increased hematocrit and hemaglobin (btw frequent blood donations can/will make you iron deficient - not good).

So those alone can/will increase blood pressure and not sure how favorable it's long term use is on lipids.

Performance enhancement is negligible at such a low dose.

Not beneficial imho

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Why not use a try dose of test with EQ?

According to this PROGRAM this won't shut you down, so that would be the main upside as far as staying on gear without shutting down. Also the guys who did this as their main PROGRAM were concerned about sperm count and were easily pausing it to have a kid then continue. Then 2 years later pause it have another kid and so on

Ex 4 months Blast Test 500mg/ EQ 600/ Deca 400/ Tren E/300
2 week PCT Clomid 150/Nolva 60 [this sounds awful but it's this proto]
4 month cruise EQ 250mg/ HCG 150iu e3d

and you just repeat this supposedly forever but lets say 4 years and then PCT 6 weeks and you never fully shutdown so you have great number

I'm not saying it's better than a TRT blast cruise just that it's possibly an option if not on TRT and trying to keep natty levels.

 

[Godstrength]

According to this PROGRAM this won't shut you down, so that would be the main upside as far as staying on gear without shutting down. Also the guys who did this as their main PROGRAM were concerned about sperm count and were easily pausing it to have a kid then continue. Then 2 years later pause it have another kid and so on

Ex 4 months Blast Test 500mg/ EQ 600/ Deca 400/ Tren E/300
2 week PCT Clomid 150/Nolva 60 [this sounds awful but it's this proto]
4 month cruise EQ 250mg/ HCG 150iu e3d

and you just repeat this supposedly forever but lets say 4 years and then PCT 6 weeks and you never fully shutdown so you have great number

I'm not saying it's better than a TRT blast cruise just that it's possibly an option if not on TRT and trying to keep natty levels.

What do you mean by being "shut down". Because 300mg/ week of eq will suppress your testosterone production. It may not do what a 19nor like deca does in the way of suppression but you will see a significant decrease in the body's natural testosterone production

Most people I know who have run anything similar to what you laid out w blast and cruise do so with also some testosterone and use the eq to keep appetite up enough to maintain the gains they got while blasting.I have known guys who drop down to low dose test and eq on cruise for reasons I stated. Primarily appetite

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

What do you mean by being "shut down". Because 300mg/ week of eq will suppress your testosterone production. It may not do what a 19nor like deca does in the way of suppression but you will see a significant decrease in the body's natural testosterone production

Most people I know who have run anything similar to what you laid out w blast and cruise do so with also some testosterone and use the eq to keep appetite up enough to maintain the gains they got while blasting.I have known guys who drop down to low dose test and eq on cruise for reasons I stated. Primarily appetite

So this is not my thoughts just what I read but 200-350mg EQ suppresses around 50-70% Test production. But with the HCG you are compensating and making up the 50-70% of Test "naturally" from the testicles so they don't shut down.

 

[CatSnake]

honestly, that's a pretty dumb protocol.

first off, 350 mg/wk of an androgen is pretty suppressive.... 200 mg/wk of testosterone is at the high range for most guys on TRT. just because it's not 2 grams a week like the blast, doesn't mean it's not gonna suppress ya..

secondly, doing high doses for a super short PCT isn't any better than doing normal doses, since you're not actually allowing the body the time to recover anyway. and that 2 weeks isn't gonna fix 16 weeks of deca at 600 mg/wk (not to mention the other compounds). deca won't even clear the body in that time.

and finally, the HCG might maintain the testicular volume, but that doesn't guarantee a full HPTA recovery. just because a guy has kids doesn't mean things are working okay down there, either. plenty of guys get their wives pregnant on cycle....

as far as this working for Olympians.... are you talking Mr Olympia or Olympic athletes? cuz I doubt many Olympic athletes will touch EQ, due to it's long detection time..... if you're talking Mr Olmpia competitors, well I've seen some of the articles they've written on cycles, and I'm pretty sure a lot of them are full of crap.

honestly, I'd just cruise on regular test. just my .02.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

honestly, that's a pretty dumb protocol.

first off, 350 mg/wk of an androgen is pretty suppressive.... 200 mg/wk of testosterone is at the high range for most guys on TRT. just because it's not 2 grams a week like the blast, doesn't mean it's not gonna suppress ya..

secondly, doing high doses for a super short PCT isn't any better than doing normal doses, since you're not actually allowing the body to recover anyway. and that 2 weeks isn't gonna fix 16 weeks of deca at 600 mg/wk (not to mention the other compounds).

and finally, the HCG might maintain the testicular volume, but that doesn't guarantee a full HPTA recovery. just because a guy has kids doesn't mean things are working okay down there, either. plenty of guys get their wives pregnant on cycle....

as far as this working for Olympians.... are you talking Mr Olympia or Olympic athletes? cuz I doubt many Olympic athletes will touch EQ, due to it's long detection time..... if you're talking Mr Olmpia competitors, well I've seen some of the articles they've written on cycles, and I'm pretty sure a lot of them are full of crap.

Ok I appreciate what you're saying. But you're taking the extreme values and saying it wont work.

Can you take use 250mg EQ and 150iu of HCG and unbox your explanation of where it's big flaws are? and assume the same blast

Also I did not explain but the 2 week hellish PCT quite a bit but it was symply to exersize the HPTA not to reverse anything .

 

[fueledpassion]

David Dunn hit all the main points.

Only purpose EQ serves is to replace T at physiological doses (100-200mg/wk) because you have estrogen issues on T. EQ is not as hard to deal with in terms of estrogen and it can maintain a somewhat decent sex drive and physical performance comparable to T at low doses. Otherwise, it's a harmful drug of choice in terms of blood health and heart health, but other than that, it's pretty drama free.

What needs to be offered is a fast-acting version of EQ/Bold. That would be helpful because tou could run a high dose (750-1000mg/wk) for a short period if time and get anabolic gainz like that of T without the drama of androgenic and estrogenic sides but it wouldn't require long cycles that are potentially harmful to your heart health.

 

[sespress]

David Dunn hit all the main points.

Only purpose EQ serves is to replace T at physiological doses (100-200mg/wk) because you have estrogen issues on T. EQ is not as hard to deal with in terms of estrogen and it can maintain a somewhat decent sex drive and physical performance comparable to T at low doses. Otherwise, it's a harmful drug of choice in terms of blood health and heart health, but other than that, it's pretty drama free.

What needs to be offered is a fast-acting version of EQ/Bold. That would be helpful because tou could run a high dose (750-1000mg/wk) for a short period if time and get anabolic gainz like that of T without the drama of androgenic and estrogenic sides but it wouldn't require long cycles that are potentially harmful to your heart health.

Is there no noester versions out there? I'm not well versed on the oils but I happen to see noester something sold as a pwo not long ago. Wasn't eq though. ... Course I also heard that whole concept of noester was crap lol so I dunno.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

David Dunn hit all the main points.

Only purpose EQ serves is to replace T at physiological doses (100-200mg/wk) because you have estrogen issues on T. EQ is not as hard to deal with in terms of estrogen and it can maintain a somewhat decent sex drive and physical performance comparable to T at low doses. Otherwise, it's a harmful drug of choice in terms of blood health and heart health, but other than that, it's pretty drama free.
So I get that long term it's less healthy than test but this is more of a question of suppression vs benefit in comparison to the results. Most info from these articles puts EQ at 1/4 as suppressive on Test production in comparison to equivalent in exogenous Test in same mg.



What needs to be offered is a fast-acting version of EQ/Bold. That would be helpful because tou could run a high dose (750-1000mg/wk) for a short period if time and get anabolic gainz like that of T without the drama of androgenic and estrogenic sides but it wouldn't require long cycles that are potentially harmful to your heart health.

So health reasons aside the comparison is the manageable Test suppression [ managed by HCG] to the benefit of continuous cruise BUT WITHOUT risking complete shutdown. I think you guys are not taking in account of the benefit of being able to cruise without being on TRT or risking perma- shutdown! because you would have your natty levels of Test getting produced VIA HCG and the included benefit of the EQ's additional results.

Is there no noester versions out there? I'm not well versed on the oils but I happen to see noester something sold as a pwo not long ago. Wasn't eq though. ... Course I also heard that whole concept of noester was crap lol so I dunno.

As for this Q, most of the guys were not on EQ but Boldenone Enanthate. This was not in any part of the routine but there is also Bold Acetate that some UGLs offer.

 

[CatSnake]

Ok I appreciate what you're saying. But you're taking the extreme values and saying it wont work.

Can you take use 250mg EQ and 150iu of HCG and unbox your explanation of where it's big flaws are? and assume the same blast

Also I did not explain but the 2 week hellish PCT quite a bit but it was symply to exersize the HPTA not to reverse anything .

my issue with people taking a low-moderate dose cycle and using HCG, is that they think it works like TRT. it doesn't.... guys on TRT typically don't maintain testosterone levels that are above normal/high-normal levels.... if you're taking androgens more that you'd normally make, why would you assume HCG responsiveness? it might work, but it might not, either. but after a blast that you mentioned earlier, I would expect significant suppression, if not almost total HPTA shutdown.

again, the 2 week PCT is worthless, unless you use fast esters and that time can be spent actually adjusting to being off AAS..... otherwise it's time where you're simply waiting for the long esters to clear.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

my issue with people taking a low-moderate dose cycle and using HCG, is that they think it works like TRT. it doesn't.... guys on TRT typically don't maintain testosterone levels that are above normal/high-normal levels.... if you're taking androgens more that you'd normally make, why would you assume HCG responsiveness? it might work, but it might not, either. but after a blast that you mentioned earlier, I would expect significant suppression, if not almost total HPTA shutdown.

again, the 2 week PCT is worthless, unless you use fast esters and that time can be spent actually adjusting to being off AAS..... otherwise it's time where you're simply waiting for the long esters to clear.

This is a great point about the 2 week pct. Cuz if everything else in this PROGRAM worked as soon as you blasted even 2 months the PCT is not going to re-enable the HPTA to fuction even with stimulation. I really need to reread those posts and articles if I'm missing something....However other than a GREAT 6week PCT I can't see anything recovering. And I'm in debate on how effective HCG is.

Back to your first part, you say TRT guys don't cruise at 900-1050? And since I'm not on TRT can you see a way to make this more in moderation as a bridge or another tool that would keep momentum while between cycles? Like I said I am really just trying to find out how this could work.

 

[CatSnake]

This is a great point about the 2 week pct. Cuz if everything else in this PROGRAM worked as soon as you blasted even 2 months the PCT is not going to re-enable the HPTA to fuction even with stimulation. I really need to reread those posts and articles if I'm missing something....However other than a GREAT 6week PCT I can't see anything recovering. And I'm in debate on how effective HCG is.

Back to your first part, you say TRT guys don't cruise at 900-1050? And since I'm not on TRT can you see a way to make this more in moderation as a bridge or another tool that would keep momentum while between cycles? Like I said I am really just trying to find out how this could work.

well, what guys cruise on in TRT is debatable, but most aren't over 900 (I'd guess that most docs keep them closer to 700, and the number we see here are pretty unique).

anyway, 350 mg/wk is gonna put most guys around 1400, which is definitely not in the normal range....

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.figures-only

^I know EQ isn't the same as test, but I'd presume it'd be similar enough to have comparable suppressive effects.

 

[fueledpassion]

I would expect it to suppress about 75% of the amount that T does, mg per mg. No empirical data whatsoever to back that up just from what I do know about EQ and it's ability to aromatize and binding affinity.

If we're gona do somthing like that though, a way better option would be:

Primo Acetate @ 50-75mg/day
Proviron @ 50mg/day

or any combination of these two adding up to no more than 125mg/day...

Would keep all the mass on just about anyone under 200-220lbs that is eating and training right. Less sides too.

 

[CatSnake]

I would expect it to suppress about 75% of the amount that T does, mg per mg. No empirical data whatsoever to back that up just from what I do know about EQ and it's ability to aromatize and binding affinity.

If we're gona do somthing like that though, a way better option would be:

Primo Acetate @ 50-75mg/day
Proviron @ 50mg/day

or any combination of these two adding up to no more than 125mg/day...

Would keep all the mass on just about anyone under 200-220lbs that is eating and training right. Less sides too.

interesting point about Proviron....

I read a study a while back, where it didn't really suppress guys with low or normal LH/FSH levels.... only those with high levels.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2892728

 

[fueledpassion]

Personally, I'd rather cruise with 75-100mg Tren-E per week long before I competely shut myself down trying to maintain gains with EQ @ 300mg/wk.

Then again, best case scenario again would be Primo-E @ 200mg/wk. You could even get Test no ester or Tren no ester and take that at a micro dose pre-WO only. Would make for an interesting cruise I think.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Personally, I'd rather cruise with 75-100mg Tren-E per week long before I competely shut myself down trying to maintain gains with EQ @ 300mg/wk.

Then again, best case scenario again would be Primo-E @ 200mg/wk. You could even get Test no ester or Tren no ester and take that at a micro dose pre-WO only. Would make for an interesting cruise I think.

Ok but Tren is extremely suppressive at any amount. I think the base of these similar routines were that they chose a compound known to increase mass stregnth ect but is far less suppressive/benefits and thus their T production can be upregulated with HCG and keep testes from ever sleeping even while being on a blast cruise. I also read a few abstracts where proviron was used in a similar way but without HCG. Even if proviron was the best it would be way to expensive.

 

[fueledpassion]

Ok but Tren is extremely suppressive at any amount. I think the base of these similar routines were that they chose a compound known to increase mass stregnth ect but is far less suppressive/benefits and thus their T production can be upregulated with HCG and keep testes from ever sleeping even while being on a blast cruise. I also read a few abstracts where proviron was used in a similar way but without HCG. Even if proviron was the best it would be way to expensive.

I know this is much easier for me to say and accept than most but you have to pay up to do it right. Primo and proviron are the way to go.

One other very unusual route I would consider but would take some research and blood work to confirm is to take about 5-10mg of M1A every day and monitor liver and lipids while on...i would actually try that first for a few months just to see what happened... Stuff is pretty strong at 30mg and 60mg is hellacious so I figure 5-10 would be manageable for long periods of time.

 

[rtmilburn]

Ok but Tren is extremely suppressive at any amount. I think the base of these similar routines were that they chose a compound known to increase mass stregnth ect but is far less suppressive/benefits and thus their T production can be upregulated with HCG and keep testes from ever sleeping even while being on a blast cruise. I also read a few abstracts where proviron was used in a similar way but without HCG. Even if proviron was the best it would be way to expensive.

The thing is hcg is suppressive. Not the mention desensitization. Hcg should be kept to a limited use.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Let me summarize everones points best I can

1 EQ is an unhealthy choice for a cruise for hematocrit reasons

2 Anavar 50 mg would be a possible replacement for EQ with HCG in this hypothetic endless cruise

2.2 350mg of EQ would raise Test levels to around 1400 far beyond help from HCG

3 Pulsing a 1 hour compound would be more effective

4 There is no way to Blast and then 2 week PCT and have any HTPA function

5 HCG is suppressive and desensitizes so the entire idea of endless cruise is impossible.

I think this a good summery. Now I want to present 4 alterations

Still haven't reread article to find why 2 week PCT but you blast for 5 months into a 6 week full PCT into 1 of these crusis

#1 so Proviron would def be a better choice except impossible to pay for so we swap out
Proviron = 17beta-hydroxy-1alpha-methyl-5alpha-androstan-3-one for Masterone= [17beta-Hydroxy-2alpha-methyl-5alpha-androstan-3-one
at 300mg/week and HCG at 100iu e3d. Puts it right at 0 suppression of endogenius test production

#2 So EQ is one of my favs so I did this quick but few non-steroid sites put EQ/Test as 40%/100% suppressive. Since I know thats wrong lets invert it to 60% for conversation sake..EQ 200mg/week with hcg at 150iue2d would put it right on the money for 0 suppression of endogenius testosterone production, even at such a low dose you throw in a few asprin and BP support and give blood once in a while.

#3 Blast for 5 months on <2gr of gear /week and don't use anymore than HCG 200iu/month on cycle.

#4 After blast do a full 6 week PCT then jump on your 6 month cruise till next blast same thing and limit this to 3 years.

I'm just going where the conversation has taken me but just from my opinion I would rather do 4 months cycle/ 6week PCT 4month cruise/PCT and rest my body. I have not heard of HCG being suppressive, and its obviously not suppressive to the testes so I'm guessing LH or FSH suppression. I do know it will overstimulate the ledigs at any dose over 500iu e2d but we are not near that. another side not of experience, the few guys I know on TRT that had to stop no PCT, still had about >150 <250 pumping out from testes so the TRT didn't put a complete stop to everything. I have also heard from an endo that you can dose up to 500mg of test in 1 week only and not have more that a slight stutter in Test production.