If you had to choose TD trest or sustanon?

[Fx4life]

Been out of the game for a while and have a stock pile of TD trest, sust, equipoise, tren, and good bit of random orals. Looking to hop back on and don't want to take anything that'll make me feel run down. I want something to elevate my mood.

I'm thinking either 100mg+ trest TD every day and a random oral of my choosing OR..

3-600mg sust and 600mg equipoise a week.

What do y'all think would produce better gains, alpha feeling, and aesthetics. I haven't actually tried the TD trest yet so I don't know what to expect. I know IM trest is stronger than test but not sure I have much faith in the TD

 

[mike33511]

Sust + EQ + oral

 

[heavylifter33]

What company made your TD trest?

 

[Fx4life]

What company made your TD trest?

I have (5) Olympus dermatrest and (1) Celtic trestoderm

 

[heavylifter33]

I have (5) Olympus dermatrest and (1) Celtic trestoderm

Both solid products, great bioavailability. I'd go with the trest and an oral, make sure you have an AI on hand as estro sides are prevalent. Great way to get back in to cycling.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Both solid products, great bioavailability. I'd go with the trest and an oral, make sure you have an AI on hand as estro sides are prevalent. Great way to get back in to cycling.

this...^^ its so easy to dose and when combined with certain orals, the outcome is usually great!

 

[Nac]

With EQ your biggest concern will likely be hematocrit; be prepared to donate.

With trest your biggest concern will likely be dramatic estrogen increases; be pepperred to dose a pharma AI like a mofo possibly.

Generally speaking, youll get away with a longer cycle using the injectables vs the td/orals. Pluses and minuses here.

Id also expect greater strength increases with trest than test/eq, and wetter gainz possibly. Just how much of either you keep through PCT and beyond, well, hard to say.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Sust + EQ + oral

^^^ all the way to gainsvill

 

[jakz]

I love Sust man!

 

[MrKleen73]

Well you said no lack of energy and that puts Trest out... Lots of people get lethargic on trest. However either way you have a nice line up available to you.

 

[fueledpassion]

Well you said no lack of energy and that puts Trest out... Lots of people get lethargic on trest. However either way you have a nice line up available to you.

That is unfortunate. I have only experienced and have only seen others experience the opposite of that on the acetate IM preparation of Trest. I believe I read somewhere that the TD version converts even more heavily to estrogen, which might be the reason for lethargy. Trest Ace on the other hand gives bundles and bundles of energy.

 

[MrKleen73]

That is unfortunate. I have only experienced and have only seen others experience the opposite of that on the acetate IM preparation of Trest. I believe I read somewhere that the TD version converts even more heavily to estrogen, which might be the reason for lethargy. Trest Ace on the other hand gives bundles and bundles of energy.

Never messed with the I'M. Very tempted but also gyno prone.

 

[heavylifter33]

That is unfortunate. I have only experienced and have only seen others experience the opposite of that on the acetate IM preparation of Trest. I believe I read somewhere that the TD version converts even more heavily to estrogen, which might be the reason for lethargy. Trest Ace on the other hand gives bundles and bundles of energy.

I do not see how that would be the case. IM will have a stronger conversion to 7a-mestradiol.

 

[MrKleen73]

I do not see how that would be the case. IM will have a stronger conversion to 7a-mestradiol.

I think either way if run with something similar to DHT a lot of that can be alleviated. That or e Test base so there is still some DHT being produced.

 

[btur2915]

Run both - just have a legit ai on hand.

 

[rtmilburn]

I do not see how that would be the case. IM will have a stronger conversion to 7a-mestradiol.

Might be that it's converts more to 7a-methyl dehydronandrolone. As dehydronandrolone is practically an anti-androgen and is a BIG reason for deca dick. Maybe the 7a-methyl version is the same way. This is all assuming the trest can be 5a reduced, and I literally have NO idea if it can.

 

[fueledpassion]

I do not see how that would be the case. IM will have a stronger conversion to 7a-mestradiol.

This is where it is important to note that I'm not endorsing that statement as much as I know I've read somewhere else on this board what seemed like a legitmate explanation at the time for such a statement. I'm inclined to think IM version is probably just stronger every which way though.

 

[rtmilburn]

This is where it is important to note that I'm not endorsing that statement as much as I know I've read somewhere else on this board what seemed like a legitmate explanation at the time for such a statement. I'm inclined to think IM version is probably just stronger every which way though.

What do you think of my post above? Wonder if that has something do with it? As topical test converts more to dht than estrogen or even staying test. So I wonder if the same think could apply to trest

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

What do you think of my post above? Wonder if that has something do with it? As topical test converts more to dht than estrogen or even staying test. So I wonder if the same think could apply to trest

Take with grain of salt. I watched a video with a endo Dr. evaluating IM Trest. He explained the effect of Trest depended on 1) Individual personal chemistry and reaction to Trest. 2) The balance of Test, DHT, and Estro in the blood when Trest was injected. 3) How healthy or high/low functioning the liver is at time of pin. He explained in great detail about how Trest was so unstable and unpredictable depending on existing levels. This is not a quote but similar to a point that if you killed your E2 after previous Trest injection that is affintiy to estro conversion is that more prone and It may apply to other hormone levels.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

What do you think of my post above? Wonder if that has something do with it? As topical test converts more to dht than estrogen or even staying test. So I wonder if the same think could apply to trest

Take with grain of salt. I watched a video with a endo Dr. evaluating IM Trest. He explained the effect of Trest depended on 1) Individual personal chemistry and reaction to Trest. 2) The balance of Test, DHT, and Estro in the blood when Trest was injected. 3) How healthy or high/low functioning the liver is at time of pin. He explained in great detail about how Trest was so unstable and unpredictable depending on existing levels. This is not a quote but similar to a point that if you killed your E2 after previous Trest injection that is affintiy to estro conversion is that more prone and It may apply to other hormone levels.

 

[fueledpassion]

What do you think of my post above? Wonder if that has something do with it? As topical test converts more to dht than estrogen or even staying test. So I wonder if the same think could apply to trest

I would assume something is different because the A:A ratio changes from oral/TD vs IM. Oral/TD is something like 600:600 and IM is 2300:600.

Anyways, it doesn't matter too much. People will continue to take the less bioavailable route because it's convenient and doesn't involve needles.

 

[fueledpassion]

Take with grain of salt. I watched a video with a endo Dr. evaluating IM Trest. He explained the effect of Trest depended on 1) Individual personal chemistry and reaction to Trest. 2) The balance of Test, DHT, and Estro in the blood when Trest was injected. 3) How healthy or high/low functioning the liver is at time of pin. He explained in great detail about how Trest was so unstable and unpredictable depending on existing levels. This is not a quote but similar to a point that if you killed your E2 after previous Trest injection that is affintiy to estro conversion is that more prone and It may apply to other hormone levels.

Link to video? I'd love to watch it. Trest really is interesting to me, personally. Stuff is amazing just would like to figure out how to control my estrogen while on it. I don't care if it means only taking 10mg/day because even THAT dose is effective for energy, fat burning and mild strength gains.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Link to video? I'd love to watch it. Trest really is interesting to me, personally. Stuff is amazing just would like to figure out how to control my estrogen while on it. I don't care if it means only taking 10mg/day because even THAT dose is effective for energy, fat burning and mild strength gains.

Im not allowed to post links. I'll try to round about post it cus honestly I don't know nearly enough about Trest to have fully understood the doc

 

[rtmilburn]

I would assume something is different because the A:A ratio changes from oral/TD vs IM. Oral/TD is something like 600:600 and IM is 2300:600.

Anyways, it doesn't matter too much. People will continue to take the less bioavailable route because it's convenient and doesn't involve needles.

Well the would fit as dht version of 19nors are weaker so why would a 7amethly be any different?

 

[fueledpassion]

Well the would fit as dht version of 19nors are weaker so why would a 7amethly be any different?

Got no idea man. I'm too busy learning up on other stuff right now so I can't really answer that question atm. All I know is the difference between oral/TD Trest and IM Trest is that IM version provides considerably more fat burning, considerably more estrogen/progesterone activity & substantially more muscle gains. My understanding is that most people report a few lbs of weight gain on oral Trest and mainly just use it for energy and as a test replacement on cycle (which it is perfect for btw) but people that take IM version and eat/train appropriately seem to report 15-30lbs of weight gain, with much of that being actual tissue development. I used Trest Deaconate after a contest one time that I didn't even cut that hard on (only got down to about 8% BF) and only prepped for 6-7 weeks max and just ate when I was hungry and put on 10lbs of muscle mass, 3lbs of fat mass and 2-3lbs of extracellular water weight, all in 3 weeks only taking 150-175mg/wk. Stuff is legit.

IM Trest following a hard pre-contest style diet in effort to maximize rebound growth grants HUGE amounts of muscle gains in a short period of time and on relatively low doses (175-350mg/wk).

 

[MrKleen73]

What do you think of my post above? Wonder if that has something do with it? As topical test converts more to dht than estrogen or even staying test. So I wonder if the same think could apply to trest

Everything I have read states that trest does not convert to DHT at all. Might be wrong but I have actually seen that listed as a selling point.

Got no idea man. I'm too busy learning up on other stuff right now so I can't really answer that question atm. All I know is the difference between oral/TD Trest and IM Trest is that IM version provides considerably more fat burning, considerably more estrogen/progesterone activity & substantially more muscle gains. My understanding is that most people report a few lbs of weight gain on oral Trest and mainly just use it for energy and as a test replacement on cycle (which it is perfect for btw) but people that take IM version and eat/train appropriately seem to report 15-30lbs of weight gain, with much of that being actual tissue development. I used Trest Deaconate after a contest one time that I didn't even cut that hard on (only got down to about 8% BF) and only prepped for 6-7 weeks max and just ate when I was hungry and put on 10lbs of muscle mass, 3lbs of fat mass and 2-3lbs of extracellular water weight, all in 3 weeks only taking 150-175mg/wk. Stuff is legit.

IM Trest following a hard pre-contest style diet in effort to maximize rebound growth grants HUGE amounts of muscle gains in a short period of time and on relatively low doses (175-350mg/wk).

So you are saying it is the shiz!

 

[fueledpassion]

Everything I have read states that trest does not convert to DHT at all. Might be wrong but I have actually seen that listed as a selling point.


So you are saying it is the shiz!

Yes, I am. Despite the estrogen/progesterone baggage that comes with it , I still gravitate towards it every time. I look forward to using it in Phase 2 of my off season plan starting in November/December of this year. That said, I will not use it without Proviron, Nolva & Aromasin, lol. In fact, if I were to do it, it would end up like this:

Test @ 200mg/wk
Trest Ace @ 350mg/wk
Proviron @ 50mg/day
Aromasin @ 12.5 - 25mg/day
Nolva @ 10mg/day or EOD (just whatever it takes to control the gyno)
Masteron @ 300-400mg/wk (maybe, maybe not)

Or just get my nipple glands cut out for about $3-4K and just take Trestolone and Masteron, lol.

That would get just about anyone huge and keep them fairly hard and dry.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yes, I am. Despite the estrogen/progesterone baggage that comes with it , I still gravitate towards it every time. I look forward to using it in Phase 2 of my off season plan starting in November/December of this year. That said, I will not use it without Proviron, Nolva & Aromasin, lol. In fact, if I were to do it, it would end up like this:

Test @ 200mg/wk
Trest Ace @ 350mg/wk
Proviron @ 50mg/day
Aromasin @ 12.5 - 25mg/day
Nolva @ 10mg/day or EOD (just whatever it takes to control the gyno)
Masteron @ 300-400mg/wk (maybe, maybe not)

Or just get my nipple glands cut out for about $3-4K and just take Trestolone and Masteron, lol.

That would get just about anyone huge and keep them fairly hard and dry.

Holy Chit, can you get the glands cut out for that cheap now? I gave up on the idea when it was like 6-8000.

 

[mike33511]

fueledpassion

What do you think about this cycle set-up? I might run this in the fall.

8 weeks of:
Trest ace 100mg EOD
Mast prop 100mg EOD
50mg Anavar ED
200mg test cyp a week
Arimidex 1mg EOD (can adjust as necessary)

 

[rtmilburn]

fueledpassion

What do you think about this cycle set-up? I might run this in the fall.

8 weeks of:
Trest ace 100mg EOD
Mast prop 100mg EOD
50mg Anavar ED
200mg test cyp a week
Arimidex 1mg EOD (can adjust as necessary)

Man if all your gear is legit you will LOVE that cycle. I would keep nolva on hand just in case for any gyno flair up

 

[mike33511]

Man if all your gear is legit you will LOVE that cycle. I would keep nolva on hand just in case for any gyno flair up

I'll get Nolva to be safe. I never thought I would be buying Clomid or Nolva since I'm on TRT, but I know this is for a different purpose. Better safe than sorry with IM trest.

 

[rtmilburn]

I'll get Nolva to be safe. I never thought I would be buying Clomid or Nolva since I'm on TRT, but I know this is for a different purpose. Better safe than sorry with IM trest.

Yep exactly. Trest is a beast both good and bad. Just got to try to minimize the bad

 

[btur2915]

I'll get Nolva to be safe. I never thought I would be buying Clomid or Nolva since I'm on TRT, but I know this is for a different purpose. Better safe than sorry with IM trest.

Def dont get clomid. Nolva is much better at binding to the breast tissue than clomid. The best thing for preventing gyno is ralox if you can find it. Stuff is amazing.

 

[fueledpassion]

fueledpassion

What do you think about this cycle set-up? I might run this in the fall.

8 weeks of:
Trest ace 100mg EOD
Mast prop 100mg EOD
50mg Anavar ED
200mg test cyp a week
Arimidex 1mg EOD (can adjust as necessary)

Instead of Anavar, I'd use Primo Acetate and/or Proviron. I just don't think the Var will do anything in regards to hardening effects that Proviron wouldn't do at 75mg/day. Really, a better choice in place of either would be Winny. It would contribute to controlling estrogen and given good anabolic/strength increases as well.

Primo obviously is cost prohibitive but even 50mg/day is pretty helpful. As much as it pains me to say, I think dosing ED will be easier to control estrogen levels when it comes to Trestolone. Stuff converts heavily and if you are prone to estrogen issues, this compound will surely deliver gyno in a hurry!

 

[fueledpassion]

Let me just say that starting low and gradually tapering up is the way to go - only increasing the Trestolone as you demonstrate control over your sex hormones, namely at the progesterone and estrogen receptors. Seriously, even at 10mg/day at first, the stuff delivers a nice, endless bump in stamina and sex drive. If I really had the patience, I'd of course run Test and Trest in an inversely correlated fashion.

For instance:

Test @ 500/500/400/400/300/300/200/200 etc etc
Trest @ 70/105/140/175/210/280/350/350/ etc etc
Proviron @ 50mg/day
Winny @ 50mg/day weeks 7-12 or 9-14 (ending IM AAS at week 12)
Mast @ 350mg/wk straight thru
Arimidex @ 12.5 EOD tapered up to 25mg ED or as needed
Nolva @ 10mg ED throughout

I think if you approached it this way, you'd keep a handle on the estrogen sides and the cycle would just continue to get more and more intense this way. I can't confirm this personally as I have never run more than 175mg/wk (tried 50mg daily a while back and estrogen was spiraling out of control quickly) but many bodybuilders compare 350mg of Trestolone to a gram of Test weekly. I'd say it's probably comparable only with much more pronounced energy and fat burning coming from the Trestolone. If you can control the estrogen, this stuff at 50mg ED will change your body dramatically, given that you are strict on your regimen.

 

[mike33511]

Instead of Anavar, I'd use Primo Acetate and/or Proviron. I just don't think the Var will do anything in regards to hardening effects that Proviron wouldn't do at 75mg/day. Really, a better choice in place of either would be Winny. It would contribute to controlling estrogen and given good anabolic/strength increases as well.

Primo obviously is cost prohibitive but even 50mg/day is pretty helpful. As much as it pains me to say, I think dosing ED will be easier to control estrogen levels when it comes to Trestolone. Stuff converts heavily and if you are prone to estrogen issues, this compound will surely deliver gyno in a hurry!

Thanks for the detailed reply. I've tried Proviron a couple times and don't seem to react well to it. It gave me heart palpitations and made me feel physically weak. Winny is definitely an option, so I'll probably do that instead and take 50mg a day for the last 6 weeks. Dosing the AI every day is probably a good idea.

The inverse correlation is an interesting idea. I'm not sure if I have the patience for that either.

 

[fueledpassion]

Thanks for the detailed reply. I've tried Proviron a couple times and don't seem to react well to it. It gave me heart palpitations and made me feel physically weak. Winny is definitely an option, so I'll probably do that instead and take 50mg a day for the last 6 weeks. Dosing the AI every day is probably a good idea.

The inverse correlation is an interesting idea. I'm not sure if I have the patience for that either.

Well at least you are honest with yourself. One thing is for certain, more frequent/smaller dosing schemes and gradual tapering up and down are supreme philosophies in controlling and/or avoiding gyno issues.