before you use steroids, you should understand estrogen

[heckler7]

its really simple but every cycle you see starts out with questions of what steroids should I use to illicit maximum gains, Nobody cares about what estrogen blocker to use till they **** up and start having negative sides. all this could be eliminated by managing your estro correctly.
here are some basics
1 when your testosterone is out of balance your body produce an enzyme called aromatase that take some of the extra testosterone and conversts is to estrogen
2 research what your using and see if its side affects is heavy aromatase like dbol or anadrol for instance
3 if your cycle is with strong aromatising steroids you are gonna need a stronger AI like aromisin or even both adex and aromisin
4 adex binds to estrogen for 4 days then starts to release some back into your system
5 aromisin is called a suicide inhibitor cause it completely eliminates a percentage of the aromatase enzyme and also eliminates estrogen bound to the aromatase enzyme so you wont get estrogen rebound

labs are you best insight into how your cycle is going but here are the basic signs of estrogen balance

too high, no boner, loss of libido, acne, lethargy, anger

too low, good boner but no orgasm or not a good orgasm, dry skin mood swings

not everyone is the same but the point is there is more to cycles than just what steroid will give you the quickest gains, if you dont plan you entire cycle correctly you wont get past the first couple of weeks to even make sustainable gains

 

[Bunshichi]

You are right about estrogen being an important topic. But at some points you said things where you might have thought the right thing but wrote the wrong.

Aromatase is produced consecutively and is just the way the body produces estrogen.
It won't only convert extra testosterone and the aromatase-level is not effected by testosterone-levels.

Adex does not bind to estrogen but binds the aromatase and competes with testosterone. If Adex levels shrink the probability of testosterone binding the aromatase rises again.

Aromasin indeed leads to a part of the aromatase being eliminated. However it does nothing directly to estrogen. The missing rebound is due to the point that new aromatase needs to be created before it could work.

 

[heckler7]

You are right about estrogen being an important topic. But at some points you said things where you might have thought the right thing but wrote the wrong.

Aromatase is produced consecutively and is just the way the body produces estrogen.
It won't only convert extra testosterone and the aromatase-level is not effected by testosterone-levels.

Adex does not bind to estrogen but binds the aromatase and competes with testosterone. If Adex levels shrink the probability of testosterone binding the aromatase rises again.

Aromasin indeed leads to a part of the aromatase being eliminated. However it does nothing directly to estrogen. The missing rebound is due to the point that new aromatase needs to be created before it could work.

you body wants to create a balance called homeostasis, when testosterone levels are too high, your body counters by producing more estrogen. this is a fact
I was trying to make a simplified explanation of how these AI works, I think you took it 2 steps further in the technical explanation

 

[heckler7]

good video

https://youtu.be/TiupOvSBBuE

 

[Bunshichi]

you body wants to create a balance called homeostasis, when testosterone levels are too high, your body counters by producing more estrogen. this is a fact
I was trying to make a simplified explanation of how these AI works, I think you took it 2 steps further in the technical explanation

Yeah well that is somehow right and somehow it isn't.
Its more of a problem of enzyme kinetics here. The same amount enzyme with a higher concentration of substrates will carry out more reactions in the same time, as the incidence of substrate and enzyme "bump" to each other and bind is hightened and the product substrate gradient is shifted towards substrate.

So the body does indeed produce more estrogen but without producing more aromatase. The endocrine system does not do this active at that point.
However homeostasis is achieved/held in this case if one thinks of it simply as estrogen/testosterone quotient, wich indeed is important but certainly not the only variable involved.

Yes. Exactly. You gave a very simplyfied explanation and its always difficult to find the point where one explaines things as simple as possible without essentially altering the information. Because I feel one could misunderstand your words because of that I felt the need to explaine a little more detailed.

 

[rascal14]

Thanks Dr. Google.

 

[booneman77]

Thanks Dr. Google.

clearly not a dr. with that grammar haha

 

[Joedoubledose]

The body does not "produce more estrogen" it does produce more aromatase in an action to create more estrogen . Also another thing to note is estrogens half life in the body is very short . Not to nit pick but just throwing in my 2¢

 

[rascal14]

clearly not a dr. with that grammar haha

That was my second insult. Lol

 

[Bunshichi]

The body does not "produce more estrogen" it does produce more aromatase in an action to create more estrogen . Also another thing to note is estrogens half life in the body is very short . Not to nit pick but just throwing in my 2¢

Could you give me the source to the body producing more aromatase, as this is exactly the opposite to my current knowledge.

 

[Bunshichi]

Thanks Dr. Google.

Just to be sure, but you don't mean me. Or do you?

 

[rascal14]

Just to be sure, but you don't mean me. Or do you?

No not you.. Lol

 

[Joedoubledose]

Could you give me the source to the body producing more aromatase, as this is exactly the opposite to my current knowledge.

Aromatase levels are affected by e2 levels and GnRH , which is responsible for the production of LH and FSH , when someone has a level of testosterone for example , at a ratio much higher then estrogen especially someone who's using aas , the body creates a negative feedback loop to induce homeostasis . Pretty self explanatory . High e2 and the body decreases aromatase production, low e2 the body increases production.Did you not know that when the body is in a deficit it wants to compensate ?or did you not know that GnRH effects aromatase production? Or Did you think aromatase production is constant and never altered ? Simply look up any scholarly article or peer reviewed journal on the effects of GnRH at the PII promoter sites and their affect on cyp19.

 

[Joedoubledose]

Btw I think it's funny you ask for sources yet I have yet to see you post a source in any of the treads you've responded too, just that you've read sources . But for ****s and giggles here's one I found from the end society by a group from a university in France titled "regulation of aromatase expression in rat pituitary" http://www.saegre.org.ar/biblioteca/arbol_bibliografico/agosto2006/en.2005-1650v1-lab.pdf

 

[booneman77]

Could you give me the source to the body producing more aromatase, as this is exactly the opposite to my current knowledge.

Well, I don't know where you got your current "knowledge" but it's flat out ass backwards.

Aromatase is an enzyme. Enzymes are what your body makes to covert one thing into another.

You sound like an idiot asking for sources to common knowledge and thus why we're all laughing AT you.

 

[Joedoubledose]

Well, I don't know where you got your current "knowledge" but it's flat out ass backwards.

Aromatase is an enzyme. Enzymes are what your body makes to covert one thing into another.

You sound like an idiot asking for sources to common knowledge and thus why we're all laughing AT you.

Missed you bud

 

[Bunshichi]

Well, I don't know where you got your current "knowledge" but it's flat out ass backwards.

Aromatase is an enzyme. Enzymes are what your body makes to covert one thing into another.

You sound like an idiot asking for sources to common knowledge and thus why we're all laughing AT you.

I did not say something different anywhere.
Please point out where you mean.

Well I got my knowledge of enzymes from studying biology. Now I will have to ask you. Where did you get yours?


As for the grammar part:
Lets see you writing something german spontanously.
English is not my first language and for school-english I don't think my language is that bad.

 

[Georgiepecker]

Yes people should be planning for everything, that's why you research for months or years before jumping into it though.....

 

[Bunshichi]

No not you.. Lol

Oh. Well **** did not see that at first. Thought I was meant indeed.

Too tired right now xD

 

[brofessorx]

Hey hey, let's all have a nice discussion before I start knit picking everyone's post in the anabolic section.
To the op, I think you meant to post this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3143915/#!po=4.37500
That's for all of you guys. Study up.
Oh, and anadrol is a 5a reduced steroid incapable of aromatization. For more info on estrogen like sides from 5a reduced steroids and other steroids incapable of aromatizing, search/read Patrick Arnold's blog.

 

[Bunshichi]

Aromatase levels are affected by e2 levels and GnRH , which is responsible for the production of LH and FSH , when someone has a level of testosterone for example , at a ratio much higher then estrogen especially someone who's using aas , the body creates a negative feedback loop to induce homeostasis . Pretty self explanatory . High e2 and the body decreases aromatase production, low e2 the body increases production.Did you not know that when the body is in a deficit it wants to compensate ?or did you not know that GnRH effects aromatase production? Or Did you think aromatase production is constant and never altered ? Simply look up any scholarly article or peer reviewed journal on the effects of GnRH at the PII promoter sites and their affect on cyp19.

Btw I think it's funny you ask for sources yet I have yet to see you post a source in any of the treads you've responded too, just that you've read sources . But for ****s and giggles here's one I found from the end society by a group from a university in France titled "regulation of aromatase expression in rat pituitary" http://www.saegre.org.ar/biblioteca/arbol_bibliografico/agosto2006/en.2005-1650v1-lab.pdf

OK. You got me wrong and I got you also wrong.
I'm not saying aromatase level is not regulated at all. I'm just saying that higher testosterone levels won't lead to higher aromatase-levels. The study you linked supports that.
I did not have time to read it completely, yet.
But yes, "consecutively" was not the exact right choice of words.

OK, yes its certainly possible that I did not post a source yet. But as you know its a ****load of work to quote everything you say. I asked you for a source politely as I thought you would back the claim from the OP that more testosterone rises aromatase and this was completely against my knowledge. However I could be wrong at some points, so I asked for the source to verify this information.
IF someone asks me to give a source to a specific information I am willing to do it. However nobody did as I remember. But again I could be wrong there and the notification system does not work right since I started using different devices, so if you see a post of someone asking me for a source please hit me up so I can come back to it.
I don't know how you do it. But I will continue asking for sources if I have a need to verify something. And I will continue posting without sources, until someone wants a specific source wich I will post then. For me it's enough to have to quote everything at work.

 

[Joedoubledose]

OK. You got me wrong and I got you also wrong.
I'm not saying aromatase level is not regulated at all. I'm just saying that higher testosterone levels won't lead to higher aromatase-levels. The study you linked supports that.
I did not have time to read it completely, yet.
But yes, "consecutively" was not the exact right choice of words.

OK, yes its certainly possible that I did not post a source yet. But as you know its a ****load of work to quote everything you say. I asked you for a source politely as I thought you would back the claim from the OP that more testosterone rises aromatase and this was completely against my knowledge. However I could be wrong at some points, so I asked for the source to verify this information.
IF someone asks me to give a source to a specific information I am willing to do it. However nobody did as I remember. But again I could be wrong there and the notification system does not work right since I started using different devices, so if you see a post of someone asking me for a source please hit me up so I can come back to it.
I don't know how you do it. But I will continue asking for sources if I have a need to verify something. And I will continue posting without sources, until someone wants a specific source wich I will post then. For me it's enough to have to quote everything at work.

Eh I mean you can say testosterone does, it is not the direct hormones to cause it to raise but elevated testosterone will cause the negative feedback loop, see what I'm saying ? The elevated testosterone level is responsible for the body registering that e2 is lower then it should be .

 

[Bunshichi]

Eh I mean you can say testosterone does, it is not the direct hormones to cause it to raise but elevated testosterone will cause the negative feedback loop, see what I'm saying ? The elevated testosterone level is responsible for the body registering that e2 is lower then it should be .

Then again due to enzyme kinetics e2 will raise almost immediately leading to aromatase secretion being reduced so one effect works against the other.

 

[brofessorx]

Im taking it none of you newbies read the article I posted. It will explain/inform to you all about estrogen, aromatase, ai's The actual difference in them, too much test aromatizing, hypogonadism, etc, and it's all about males!
I don't know why I try.

 

[Bunshichi]

Im taking it none of you newbies read the article I posted. It will explain/inform to you all about estrogen, aromatase, ai's The actual difference in them, too much test aromatizing, hypogonadism, etc, and it's all about males!
I don't know why I try.

Well actually I was at work the last ten and a half hours. For a little forum discussion I can find the time sometimes. But for reading an article it is another story.

 

[heckler7]

Yes people should be planning for everything, that's why you research for months or years before jumping into it though.....

this guy gets it

 

[heckler7]

The body does not "produce more estrogen" it does produce more aromatase in an action to create more estrogen . Also another thing to note is estrogens half life in the body is very short . Not to nit pick but just throwing in my 2¢

just my .2, you are correct but for a new guy that doesnt understand the side effects all they see on labs is high E2, so in the end it does raise E2

 

[heckler7]

The body does not "produce more estrogen" it does produce more aromatase in an action to create more estrogen . Also another thing to note is estrogens half life in the body is very short . Not to nit pick but just throwing in my 2¢

just my .2, you are correct but for a new guy that doesnt understand the side effects all they see on labs is high E2, so in the end it does raise E2

 

[fueledpassion]

Aromatase levels are affected by e2 levels and GnRH , which is responsible for the production of LH and FSH , when someone has a level of testosterone for example , at a ratio much higher then estrogen especially someone who's using aas , the body creates a negative feedback loop to induce homeostasis . Pretty self explanatory . High e2 and the body decreases aromatase production, low e2 the body increases production.Did you not know that when the body is in a deficit it wants to compensate ?or did you not know that GnRH effects aromatase production? Or Did you think aromatase production is constant and never altered ? Simply look up any scholarly article or peer reviewed journal on the effects of GnRH at the PII promoter sites and their affect on cyp19.

This would align with many anecdotal reports of adding HCG to TRT = more water and estrogen issues for many people, yet some (the ones who probably did not have enough estrogen to begin with) feel better on it.

I think this also aligns itself with the notion that DHT steroids such as Masteron tend to amplify the results of AAS cycles because it is known to help alleviate estrogen levels in some ways.

What I'd like people to talk about is how fat cells, the size of fat cells and the number of fat cells affect estrogen/test ratios. I'm a big believer that there is something related in lbs of fat vs. number of estrogen receptors in the body because the leaner I get, the less issues I have with estrogen control. Others would probably tell you the same thing that when they dipped down into the single BF digits, things got easier in terms of controlling estrogen on cycle.

 

[brofessorx]

This would align with many anecdotal reports of adding HCG to TRT = more water and estrogen issues for many people, yet some (the ones who probably did not have enough estrogen to begin with) feel better on it.

I think this also aligns itself with the notion that DHT steroids such as Masteron tend to amplify the results of AAS cycles because it is known to help alleviate estrogen levels in some ways.

What I'd like people to talk about is how fat cells, the size of fat cells and the number of fat cells affect estrogen/test ratios. I'm a big believer that there is something related in lbs of fat vs. number of estrogen receptors in the body because the leaner I get, the less issues I have with estrogen control. Others would probably tell you the same thing that when they dipped down into the single BF digits, things got easier in terms of controlling estrogen on cycle.

If anyone bothered to read the actual info in the article I posted they'd have read about the the topic of fat cells and aromatase/estrogen with the response from researchers on it.
But no one does, then everyone wonders why ibry is such a d1ck to everyone.

 

[fueledpassion]

If anyone bothered to read the actual info in the article I posted they'd have read about the the topic of fat cells and aromatase/estrogen with the response from researchers on it.
But no one does, then everyone wonders why ibry is such a d1ck to everyone.

A link would be a good start...

 

[Joedoubledose]

A link would be a good start...

Last post on the first page ...

 

[brofessorx]

A link would be a good start...

Really.....

 

[Kha0s]

Good post man. Too many people minimize the importance of keeping estrogen under control. Better to start right than try to play catch up once you are experiencing sides.

 

[fueledpassion]

Really.....

I thought you were referring to a post or study from a long time ago.

But let's not kid ourselves, you don't need a scapegoat to be a d1ck!

 

[Nac]

Has anyone got any studies/research showing the relation between aromatase and fat cells?

Thanks guise!

 

[Joedoubledose]

Has anyone got any studies/research showing the relation between aromatase and fat cells?

Thanks guise!

You're better of researching yourself as people don't usually like to spoon feed no offense

 

[brofessorx]

You're better of researching yourself as people don't usually like to spoon feed no offense

:lol:

I thought you were referring to a post or study from a long time ago.

But let's not kid ourselves, you don't need a scapegoat to be a d1ck!

Word :spankme:

Has anyone got any studies/research showing the relation between aromatase and fat cells?

Thanks guise!

Are you trolling me?

 

[Nac]

I thort the timing wouldve made it obvious I was taking the p1ss. You guise suck.

 

[JoeStethics]

do you guys think i would need an AI at 150mg test a week? running test and tren, gonna get caber for tren.