1 Andro/Epiandro Cycle Log W/ Pics! Please Critique.

[ZachH]

1 Andro/Epiandro Cycle Log W/ Pics!

Bey there AM, after hours of research i think i have gained enough knowledge on setting up my first ever cycle of any kind. Been lifting for 6 years and always have my diet on point. Im a former fatty so still have a tiny bit of gyno from puberty years.

Current stats:
Age- 24
Height- 5'10"
Weight-190 LBS
Bf %- about 13%

Looking for any words of wisdom on my first ever cycle from pre cycle support, during cycle support, things to watch out for, estrogen issues, BP issues, libido issues during and after cycle, and anything else you can think of that i missed.

Here is how im planning on running the cycle:

1 week prior to cycle:
Primeval Labs Mega Cycle Support x5 tabs a day

Cycle:
1-Andro: (1-testosterone by Hi Tech) - 220/330/330/330/330/330
Epiandro: (Primeval Labs) 400/600/600/600/600/600
On cycle support: Primeval Labs Mega Cycle Support x5 tabs per day

PCT:
Clomid 25/25/25/12.5
Arimiplex by Hi Tech PCT (2 tabs per day x30 days) It has 75 mg of arimistane in in and other ingredients as well
1 week of my Mega cycle support from on cycle (to finish off my second bottle)
Week 2 of PCT: Start Diesel Test Procycle v3 6-8 tabs per day. For Test and libido purposes. Never tried it so not sure what dose will be best for me but i heard its amazing during PCT. Any thoughts on that would be cool too. My current physique pics are coming, stay tuned

 

[ZachH]

 

[MG223]

I have nolva for my pct but don't most people go with 50/50/25/25 for clomid?

 

[ZachH]

I have nolva for my pct but don't most people go with 50/50/25/25 for clomid?

Yes a lot of people do. But through all my research 25 is plenty and often better than 50 especially with lighter cycles like the andro based one im running. Correct me if im wrong experts!

 

[ZachH]

Also, in combination with everything above, throughout all aspects of the cycle i will also be taking all of my normal everyday supplements, PLEASE let me know if any these will interfere with my cycle or cause me unwanted issues.

Whey/casein protein
Creatine
BCAAS/aminos
Various caffeine based fat burners at morning and afternoon
High stim fully dosed pre workouts, sometimes that includes DMAA
Multi vitamin
CLA
Fish oil
L carnitine
ZMA + melatonin before bed
Post workout recovery drinks (Such as Post Jym)

Please look carefully and warn me of anything i should be careful of or give me the good to go!

 

[elo76]

Yes a lot of people do. But through all my research 25 is plenty and often better than 50 especially with lighter cycles like the andro based one im running. Correct me if im wrong experts!

The standard protocol is 50/50/25/25. I don't see a problem with 25/25/25/12.5 but it's your body. Will it work...probably. I'm not going to take a chance on getting my boys going again so I do the standard.

How's less better? Maybe less on sides. I noticed no sides at 50mg and increased strength throughout pct. Now years ago peeps ran it at 100mg. That will make you cry watching Seinfeld...lol.

 

[ZachH]

The standard protocol is 50/50/25/25. I don't see a problem with 25/25/25/12.5 but it's your body. Will it work...probably. I'm not going to take a chance on getting my boys going again so I do the standard.

How's less better? Maybe less on sides. I noticed no sides at 50mg and increased strength throughout pct. Now years ago peeps ran it at 100mg. That will make you cry watching Seinfeld...lol.

Okay thanks for the input ill at least do the first full week of PCT at 50 then as libido is a huge worry of mine! Lets just say my GF would be very dissappointed if i couldn't perform lol so should i take anything for libdio during cycle as well or will diesel test take care of that during PCT?

Any input on how these andros will interact with all my other basic supplements listed above would be appreciated.

I know 1 Andro and epi andro is a very dry stack, and then add in arimistane on top of it during PCT, will ultra fish oil and glucosamine chondroitin with MSM be enough joint support or will my joints be crying

 

[elo76]

One thing I just noticed is you are only running these for 6 weeks. I feel it's a must you go for 8. They might not even kick in until week 4.

For on cycle libido. If you are at all concerned. Up your epi to 1000 and add in 4 andro at 330. Also, dont bother starting 1 andro at 220. Start it at 330.

Pick up cialis for a boost when needed.

Arimistane at 75 might dry you out. You'll just have to wait and see.

 

[ZachH]

One thing I just noticed is you are only running these for 6 weeks. I feel it's a must you go for 8. They might not even kick in until week 4.

For on cycle libido. If you are at all concerned. Up your epi to 1000 and add in 4 andro at 330. Also, dont bother starting 1 andro at 220. Start it at 330.

Pick up cialis for a boost when needed.

Arimistane at 75 might dry you out. You'll just have to wait and see.

I figured 6 weeks because i have never ran any type of "un-natty" supplement before and every thing i read online suggested i start out with a 4 week cycle but like You just said, i have read others logs and said 6 to 8 weeks is necessary because the 1 andro takes a while to kick in, but epi andro kicks in pretty quickly. And i started the 1 andro at 220 because thats all the amount of capsules i would have from 2 60 ct. bottles of Hi techs 1-testosterone (110mg 1andro per pill)

Reasons i stayed away from 4 andro is 1) because im trying to lean out and get hard muscle and 2) fear of estrogen problems because like i stated in first post i still have very slight case of gyno from teenage years that never went away.

Do you or anyone else think 6 weeks would be pointless for a hardening up, cutting cycle?

 

[elo76]

I figured 6 weeks because i have never ran any type of "un-natty" supplement before and every thing i read online suggested i start out with a 4 week cycle but like You just said, i have read others logs and said 6 to 8 weeks is necessary because the 1 andro takes a while to kick in, but epi andro kicks in pretty quickly. And i started the 1 andro at 220 because thats all the amount of capsules i would have from 2 60 ct. bottles of Hi techs 1-testosterone (110mg 1andro per pill)

Reasons i stayed away from 4 andro is 1) because im trying to lean out and get hard muscle and 2) fear of estrogen problems because like i stated in first post i still have very slight case of gyno from teenage years that never went away.

Do you or anyone else think 6 weeks would be pointless for a hardening up, cutting cycle?

I wouldn't waste a run on a cut, but that's just me. You should be able to lean out and gain muscle while eating slightly over maintenance if you're "ON". Don't worry about the 4 andro, the epi andro should keep any estrogen from it at bay.

IMO...if you want to harden up and cut. Jack up the weights, drop the cals and save the cycle for a bulk. I only get one, maybe two runs in a year. I'm not going through all of the process and money to not build muscle.

 

[ZachH]

I wouldn't waste a run on a cut, but that's just me. You should be able to lean out and gain muscle while eating slightly over maintenance if you're "ON". Don't worry about the 4 andro, the epi andro should keep any estrogen from it at bay.

IMO...if you want to harden up and cut. Jack up the weights, drop the cals and save the cycle for a bulk. I only get one, maybe two runs in a year. I'm not going through all of the process and money to not build muscle.

Good point and that honestly has crossed my mind. Just read a lot of great reviews on Epiandro for cutting purposes... To save money do you think a low dose andro1 run and higer dose epiandro would be a good idea? Im scared to do a full 8 weeks because the thought of my natural test being shut off for that long scares the hell outta me. With proper pct and clomid is it almost a guarantee to get your natural test back up again or with these PH's are we risking sh!t never being right again even with proper PCT

 

[JahCure]

In for your progress bro

 

[LordGunz]

When do you start bro

 

[ZachH]

Waiting on my clomid to get in mail on Monday, to make sure i have all my ducks in a row, and then its time to give it all i got. I made a few additional changes to this as well since my original post...

Adding Alphamax XT to my PCT along with OLYMPUS LABS laxogenin or "strength unleashed" plus the clomid and arimiplex PCT as well. No diesel test because nutriverse had B2G1 free on alphamax XT and B1G1 free on olympus laxogenin!

Does that sound like a solid pct?

Clomid 50/25/25/12.5
Arimiplex by Hi tech (75 mg arimistane and others)
Alphamax XT
Olympus Strength Unleashed (laxogenin)

Also, changed my epiandro doses to 750mg for 6 weeks, since its my first cycle ever keeping 1 andro at 220 and do not want to risk losing libido at all or GF will be pissed lol.

Think it would be worth it to throw in SNS XGels into my on cycle time?? Heard Ara goes great with andro's.

As far as diet goes, ive been virtually no carbs 6 days outta the week for over 2 months now and down about 23 lbs so far, and strength continued to go up through my cut. 1 day a week i have a high carb day. Thinking about increasing my carbs once i start cycle and keeping protein fats the same as i have them right now which is about 260 protein and 95 fats. Ideally it would be my plan to lose fat and gain muscle/strength simultaneously during this cycle and heard thats very possible while "ON". Let me know your thoughts

 

[elo76]

I still think you need to run the 1 Andro at 330 and the EPI at 1000 for 8 weeks. You're wasting your money at 220 for 6 weeks on the 1. You probably won't notice anything in terms of gains man.

If I were you. I would pick up enough product to run it the full 8 weeks at the doses I stated. Dose 220/750 for a few days if you want and the run it 330/1000. I'm betting that when week 5 comes around you'll be thanking me you had extra to run 8.

As for ara and the others. Leave that stuff out of your run. Use during your "off" time. I like to run follidrone during pct.

 

[ZachH]

I still think you need to run the 1 Andro at 330 and the EPI at 1000 for 8 weeks. You're wasting your money at 220 for 6 weeks on the 1. You probably won't notice anything in terms of gains man.

If I were you. I would pick up enough product to run it the full 8 weeks at the doses I stated. Dose 220/750 for a few days if you want and the run it 330/1000. I'm betting that when week 5 comes around you'll be thanking me you had extra to run 8.

As for ara and the others. Leave that stuff out of your run. Use during your "off" time. I like to run follidrone during pct.

Does anyone think 8 weeks for my first ever cycle of anything is too much time of suppression or with proper PCT there is no risk involved? Also, if i ran 1 andro at 220 and 4 andro at 220 plus EPI at 750 do you think that would be too much for my first cycle ever? Have all my PCT in place but still scared about adding in the 4 andro because i dont want to hold too much water or look bloated and I'm worried about too much estrogen. Or do you think at 220mg a day the sides will be almost non-existent. Or is 220 a day of each plus 750 epiandro still wasting my time for my goals of losing fat and gaining strength/hard muscle at the same time?

 

[elo76]

Good luck with your run. Seems like your mind is made up and your just looking for someone to agree with what you want to do.

 

[ZachH]

Good luck with your run. Seems like your mind is made up and your just looking for someone to agree with what you want to do.

Not made up no, just scared to over do it my first go is all. Still dont want to waste my time with something that wont provide results at too low of a dose

 

[Brandinooooo]

Does anyone think 8 weeks for my first ever cycle of anything is too much time of suppression or with proper PCT there is no risk involved? Also, if i ran 1 andro at 220 and 4 andro at 220 plus EPI at 750 do you think that would be too much for my first cycle ever? Have all my PCT in place but still scared about adding in the 4 andro because i dont want to hold too much water or look bloated and I'm worried about too much estrogen. Or do you think at 220mg a day the sides will be almost non-existent. Or is 220 a day of each plus 750 epiandro still wasting my time for my goals of losing fat and gaining strength/hard muscle at the same time?

Quite a few things to say.

First off, you would be wasting your time and money with 4 weeks. 6 weeks would be absolute minimal for those ph's. Remember they take around 3 weeks to kick in so why only let them work for a week or 3? Give them the full 5 weeks to work.

With a proper pct, you will be fine. Nothing to worry about there.

4-andros estrogen conversion is very low. If your below 20% bf, I doubt you will even get bloated. I'd bet money on it.

DO NOT taper up your doses. Your just wasting those pills. Start at the full 330mg.

1/4/epi is a basic stack and is very well tolerated. Its what we suggest to most.

 

[ZachH]

Well, to everyones advice i got my cycle right and today is day #2 on cycle!! Ill be running 1/4/epi for 8 weeks, along with a low dose of SNS inhibit E (probably 2 caps a day for the duration) and taking 200mg of 5a hydroxy laxogenin a day for the entire 8 weeks along with other basic ergogenic supps such as OL tr1umph and many others. Ill keep everyone posted on my sides, gains, and anything else along the way!! Pumped.

 

[JahCure]

Well, to everyones advice i got my cycle right and today is day #2 on cycle!! Ill be running 1/4/epi for 8 weeks, along with a low dose of SNS inhibit E (probably 2 caps a day for the duration) and taking 200mg of 5a hydroxy laxogenin a day for the entire 8 weeks along with other basic ergogenic supps such as OL tr1umph and many others. Ill keep everyone posted on my sides, gains, and anything else along the way!! Pumped.

Get hyuge brew

 

[Joe12]

Well, to everyones advice i got my cycle right and today is day #2 on cycle!! Ill be running 1/4/epi for 8 weeks, along with a low dose of SNS inhibit E (probably 2 caps a day for the duration) and taking 200mg of 5a hydroxy laxogenin a day for the entire 8 weeks along with other basic ergogenic supps such as OL tr1umph and many others. Ill keep everyone posted on my sides, gains, and anything else along the way!! Pumped.

Swole' Time!!!!!

 

[ZachH]

Day 6 today. Obviously not too much to note yet. Little brain fog first few days that seems to be gone. Little recomp noticed so far. I also started taking 2 caps/day of SNS inhibit E so recomp notices probably coming from inhibit E and 2 caps OL ep1c unleashed everyday along with my 200 mg 5a hydroxy laxogenin daily.

Only side ive noticed so far is bad night sweats? Like wake up pillow soaked sweats and ive never been a night sweater like this before. Started when i started my cycle. I take my last 1 4 epi dose around 9 p.m not sure if that has anything to do with it.

Diet wise, im keeping the calories moderately low for now. 5 days out of the week around maintenance or just below, and 2 high carb days a week planned around my big lifts. Trying to stay lean until week 3 or 4 where the andro's should start to be in full effect, then i will up the calories more to make maximum gains while on cycle and hopefully stay lean or even lose fat at same time. Keeping it about 80% clean foods as sh!t foods make me feel lethargic and like overall crap.

 

[ZachH]

Day 8... Not too much to note yet. Here is a back pic from yesterday's sesh. Currently 5 '10" and 190
lbs

 

[ZachH]

Day 10. Upped epiandro to 1000mg today from 500 for first 9 days. Already feel the difference!! Current doses: 1 andro 330/day, 4 andro 220/day, epiandro 1000/day. Ill have 18 extra 250mg epiandro pills at the end of my cycle if i run 1000 mg a day the remainder of my 60 day cycle. Would it be beneficial or bad for my health if i up epi dose to 1250mg a day for the last 18 days of cycle?? ( note this is my first cycle ever)

Also added X Gels to my run so ill be maxing these gains out during these 60 days!!! Ep1c unleashed, 200mg laxo a day, 1.5 scoops tr1umph and 1G X gels plus my andros.

Other supps im taking during cycle:

ZMA
Animal Pak multi
Controlled labs greens
L carnitine
Primeval labs mega cycle support
Joint support xt + cissus xt
Inhibit E
CLA
Ultra EPA/DHA Fish oil
Various fat burners
Pre workouts
Post workouts (nutrabio post, post jym, EVL recover)
Whey/Casein
Creatine Mono
Glutamine
Various aminos/Bcaas
BLR Nootrol
4G Peak 02

 

[JahCure]

Day 10. Upped epiandro to 1000mg today from 500 for first 9 days. Already feel the difference!! Current doses: 1 andro 330/day, 4 andro 220/day, epiandro 1000/day. Ill have 18 extra 250mg epiandro pills at the end of my cycle if i run 1000 mg a day the remainder of my 60 day cycle. Would it be beneficial or bad for my health if i up epi dose to 1250mg a day for the last 18 days of cycle?? ( note this is my first cycle ever)

Also added X Gels to my run so ill be maxing these gains out during these 60 days!!! Ep1c unleashed, 200mg laxo a day, 1.5 scoops tr1umph and 1G X gels plus my andros.

Other supps im taking during cycle:

ZMA
Animal Pak multi
Controlled labs greens
L carnitine
Primeval labs mega cycle support
Joint support xt + cissus xt
Inhibit E
CLA
Ultra EPA/DHA Fish oil
Various fat burners
Pre workouts
Post workouts (nutrabio post, post jym, EVL recover)
Whey/Casein
Creatine Mono
Glutamine
Various aminos/Bcaas
BLR Nootrol

Damn that's a lot of supps brew!

Any weight gain or vascularity increase yet?

 

[ZachH]

Damn that's a lot of supps brew!

Any weight gain or vascularity increase yet?

Oh yeah for sure. And ive been eating at maintenance too. I gain weight super easy always have. So trying to keep calories low until week 4 then ill be eating in a surplus until PCT starts. strength has already gone up

 

[MrManlet]

Sorry to hijack thread but is there a difference in potency between IML epiandro and primeval labs epiandro? With the grapefruit and piperine extract added to it

 

[ZachH]

Been eating at maintenance and up about 4.5 lbs already and strength and muscle fullness starting to go up significantly already and only day 13!! Crushed back today and libido still strong but my coin purse is up tight

 

[Nac]

Other supps im taking during cycle:

ZMA
Animal Pak multi
Controlled labs greens
L carnitine
Primeval labs mega cycle support
Joint support xt + cissus xt
Inhibit E
CLA
Ultra EPA/DHA Fish oil
Various fat burners
Pre workouts
Post workouts (nutrabio post, post jym, EVL recover)
Whey/Casein
Creatine Mono
Glutamine
Various aminos/Bcaas
BLR Nootrol
4G Peak 02

Damn that's a lot of supps brew!

Man, I know myself how supp stacks can accumulate over time.

But, in part I think its a perception thing. Consider, say someone says "man what a huge list of crap, all I take is OLs K1NGSGUARD and scivation Perform!" Well, right there if you listed the individual ingredients of both those products youd end up with a 20+ compound stack lol

 

[JahCure]

4.5 lbs in 13 days is solid! Keep the gains coming!!!

 

[Joe12]

Been eating at maintenance and up about 4.5 lbs already and strength and muscle fullness starting to go up significantly already and only day 13!! Crushed back today and libido still strong but my coin purse is up tight

Holy **** you said "coin purse"

 

[ZachH]

Holy **** you said "coin purse"

Lmao why does that shock you

 

[hanslifts]

Holy **** you said "coin purse"

What does this mean lol???

 

[Joe12]

Lmao why does that shock you

Not shocking, just freaking hysterical!!!!

 

[ZachH]

Day 15. Feeling good!! Someone please help though im currently running 1000 epiandro a day and if i continue for the entire 60 days at this dose i will have 18 epiandro 250mg pills left over. Would running my epiandro dose at 1250mg a day for the last 18 days be too much for my first cycle or cause bad sides or wouldnt hurt to do it??

 

[MrManlet]

I doubt it would hurt but I've read that most people don't notice a difference between 700mg a day to 1000mg a day so worse that would happen is you just wouldn't notice a difference at all

 

[ZachH]

Thanks for your help, anyone else care to comment on the epiandro dosage question? Whether or not 1250 would have any bad sides or not be a good idea

 

[Joe12]

Thanks for your help, anyone else care to comment on the epiandro dosage question? Whether or not 1250 would have any bad sides or not be a good idea

Not sure man, I stopped at a 1000 when I ran andro 1. I ran 220 and def needed a 1000 of epi to keep my test up. I know people that have ran 330 of andro 1 with 1000 epi and still struggled. After running this stack, I think a small amount of 4 would be golden.

I won't run andro 1 again because of some sides. Im giving 19&epi a try right now, and I can tell it's already better (just my personal exp.).

 

[MrManlet]

How is 19 treating you? Are prolactin sides an issue with this as with the actually nors? Also how are the gains wet/dry etc

 

[Joe12]

How is 19 treating you? Are prolactin sides an issue with this as with the actually nors? Also how are the gains wet/dry etc

Hard to tell, I'm only on day 8...
But now that you mention it, I noticed a little more liquid from my left nipple yesterday. Who knows, I'll keep an eye on it. I'm running 19 @110, & EPI @500. Ill up it in a week.

 

[MG223]

Not sure man, I stopped at a 1000 when I ran andro 1. I ran 220 and def needed a 1000 of epi to keep my test up. I know people that have ran 330 of andro 1 with 1000 epi and still struggled. After running this stack, I think a small amount of 4 would be golden.

I won't run andro 1 again because of some sides. Im giving 19&epi a try right now, and I can tell it's already better (just my personal exp.).

I'm running 1/4/epi and I've had barely any noticeable sides besides and tad bit of back acne and some aggression here and there. Libido sucks but I've had problems with that for the past 10 years.

 

[MrManlet]

Was 1andro and epiandro really that bad? Especially with epi at 1000mg a day and 1andro at only 330

 

[MG223]

Was 1andro and epiandro really that bad? Especially with epi at 1000mg a day and 1andro at only 330

Nah it's not bad at all. I'm on day 41 of my cycle and it's going ok.

 

[MrManlet]

Will 330mg 1andro suffice for someone with multiple cycles under their belt, however have been out of the gym for about 6-8months?

 

[JahCure]

Will 330mg 1andro suffice for someone with multiple cycles under their belt, however have been out of the gym for about 6-8months?

Yes

 

[MrManlet]

So I'm on day two of epi andro 1000mgs, waiting for my andro to come in the mail. How long has epiandro take to notice anything from for you guys?

 

[yotreeman]

I'm running 1/4/epi and I've had barely any noticeable sides besides and tad bit of back acne and some aggression here and there. Libido sucks but I've had problems with that for the past 10 years.

Same on the sides, except my acne is pretty bad (for me - never had back acne before, have a decent amount now, plus several big deep bastards on my face), and my aggression/irritability is through the ****ing roof (already a bit aggressive person anyway though).

 

[yotreeman]

So I'm on day two of epi andro 1000mgs, waiting for my andro to come in the mail. How long has epiandro take to notice anything from for you guys?

All the andros seem to start kicking for me on week 2 or 3, with everything in full gear by 3-4.

 

[MrManlet]

I'm just so impatient haha I want that on feeling!