Advice on oral cycle

[Nebuser55]

Hey All,

I just finished an oral Trenavar\Epistane cycle a few weeks ago that went really well.. the dosing I used was:
Trenavar - 60\60\80\100\100\100
Epistane - 40\40\60\60\60\60

I am on PCT now using Nolva, DAA and some other natural test boosters...
Nolva - 20\20\10\10

I am looking to start another oral cycle possibly after week 6 or week 8 since cycle ended. This time going to use m-sten as well, with this dosing:
M-sten - 10\10\15\15\15\15
Trenavar - 60\60\80\100\100\100
Epistane - 40\40\60\60\60\60

Then use the same PCT as above with Nolva at 20\20\10\10.

I have all the on cycle support for liver, kidneys and heart, and plenty of protein, glutamine and creatine...

Thoughts on this dosing cycle and the use of m-sten? And is the PCT enough?

I am 35, 6'2, 240lbs and have done lighter cycles with these products before with no major issues.

Thanks in advance!

 

[heavylifter33]

I doubt you'll see much improvement with the addition of m-sten. Maybe a bit more strength but otherwise you're adding a c-17 for no real benefit.

Diminishing returns my friend.

 

[AntM1564]

I doubt you'll see much improvement with the addition of m-sten. Maybe a bit more strength but otherwise you're adding a c-17 for no real benefit.

Diminishing returns my friend.

I agree with this. Sometimes, less is more. Also, I would ditch the DAA unless your testosterone levels are low. As far as you natural anabolic, what are you considering? I would suggest AlphaMax XT or Kingsbllod since both are all in one products that will increase libido, control cortisol and boost testosterone. Right now, Nutriverse has a sale, 20% off AlphaMax XT when you add it to your cart, plus you can use the forum code AM5 for an additional 5% off. AlphaMax XT is a nice addition since it controls cortisol with two different, fully dosed ingredients (DHAA ad ashwagadnha) and helps boost testosterone and lean mass with forskolin, 3,4 dinavil, tongkat ali and ashwagandha.

https://www.nutri-verse.com/alphamax-xt-by-performax-labs/

Here is the DAA study. Essentially, if you have healthy test levels, DAA will not do anything.

Twenty-four males, with a minimum of two years' experience in resistance training, (age, 24.5 ± 3.2 y; training experience, 3.4 ± 1.4 y; height, 178.5 ± 6.5 cm; weight, 84.7 ± 7.2 kg; bench press 1-RM, 105.3 ± 15.2 kg) were randomised into one of three groups: 6 g.d(-1) plain flour (D0); 3 g.d(-1) of d-aspartic acid (D3); and 6 g.d(-1) of d-aspartic acid (D6). Participants performed a two-week washout period, training four days per week. This continued through the experimental period (14 days), with participants consuming the supplement in the morning. Serum was analysed for levels of testosterone, estradiol, sex hormone binding globulin, albumin and free testosterone was determined by calculation.

D-aspartic acid supplementation revealed no main effect for group in: estradiol; sex-hormone-binding-globulin; and albumin. Total testosterone was significantly reduced in D6 (P = 0.03). Analysis of free testosterone showed that D6 was significantly reduced as compared to D0 (P = 0.005), but not significantly different to D3. Analysis did not reveal any significant differences between D3 and D0. No significant correlation between initial total testosterone levels and responsiveness to d-aspartic acid was observed (r = 0.10, P = 0.70).

The present study demonstrated that a daily dose of six grams of d-aspartic acid decreased levels of total testosterone and free testosterone (D6), without any concurrent change in other hormones measured. Three grams of d-aspartic acid had no significant effect on either testosterone markers. It is currently unknown what effect this reduction in testosterone will have on strength and hypertrophy gains.

Three and six grams supplementation of d-aspartic acid in resistance trained men. - PubMed - NCBI

Resistance-trained men resistance trained 4 times/wk for 28 days while orally ingesting either 3 g of placebo or 3 g of D-ASP. Data were analyzed with 2 × 2 analysis of variance (P < .05).

The gonadal hormones were unaffected by 28 days of D-ASP supplementation and not associated with the observed increases in muscle strength and mass. Therefore, at the dose provided, D-ASP supplementation is ineffective in up-regulating the activity of the hypothalamo-pituitary-gonadal axis and has no anabolic or ergogenic effects in skeletal muscle.

D-aspartic acid supplementation combined with 28 days of heavy resistance training has no effect on body composition, muscle strength, and serum ho... - PubMed - NCBI
The first study I referenced regarding DAA was published recently (2015), and used subjects with at least 2 years experience resistance training, and the study also had subjects train 4-days a week. If you look at the full text (which I put a link to below), you'll see that both 3g and 6g DAA REDUCED free testosterone relative to no DAA (although the decrease was only significant in the 6g group):

 

[Nebuser55]

Thanks Rhadam.. . That does make sense and the kind of feedback I was looking for... The product I was going to buy has both Trenavar -20mg and msten -5mg per cap and I have taken it in the past, just 2 and then 3 caps a day and have seen some nice gains... but never at this higher amount for 6 weeks, and im going to bump up Trenavar to 80 or 100 and add Epistane... The product is called MegaTren, it has cause me some more bloated look then cut compared to Trenavar when I took it before so was a little apprehensive about adding to the cycle.
Would you suggest just repeating my first cycle instead?
Trenavar - 60\60\80\100\100\100
Epistane - 40\40\60\60\60\60

I'm new to trying to understand the chemistry side to all of this and it is fairly complicated lol.. so need to lean on the advice on here a bit until I am more familiar.

 

[Nebuser55]

And thanks AntM.. I'll read through that study on DAA.