I'm always on cycle and I see no problems...

Dr. Anabolic

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Long time reader and I'd like to get everyone's opinions on what I've been doing the past 11 months. I am a healthy 6 foot, 190 pound muscular 35 yo male who has been bodybuilding for the past 20 years. Last year I got on TRT and HCG. I wanted to get bigger/stronger but I didn't want to go on and off anabolic cycles. I'm not looking to be gigantic or Arnold-like, I simply want to look like a damn good bodybuilder but not to the extreme. So I decided to try the following and be on this cycle continuously. I get my labs every 3 months and everything is checking out with zero problems thus far.

Weeks 1-12: 400mg/week Test Cyp and 500 HCG/week (to keep the boys nice and healthy), Arimidex 0.5mg EOD or daily (takes some experimenting to get this right as I am sensitive to estrogen).

Weeks 12-22: 50mg Anavar, 175mg/week Test Cyp, 400 HCG, Arimidex 0.5 once a week, liver supplement.

Repeat.

Side notes: At one point my nipples felt sensitive but I simply added 20mg Nolvadex daily for 4 weeks and problem solved. I take a few other over the counter supplements like fish oil and a multi as well. My diet is good (not great). I follow an intermittent fasting diet where I eat almost whatever I want under two conditions:
1) My daily caloric intake is at the value of my current goal (whether it be to maintain, lose weight, or gain) and yes I count calories.
2) My protein intake for the day is reached.

My RBC and Hct were slightly elevated around week 10 but I donated blood which lowered it to acceptable levels. Lipids and all were fine. Liver function tests were normal which leads me to think I might be able to get away with a 12 week Anavar cycle but I don't want to push my luck.

Now my question: can I simply repeat this cycle indefinitely as long as my labs check out? I am always "on" something and getting fantastic results, my labs are normal, and I'm not "sensitizing" myself to testosterone as I do cycle it to a lower dose but I am not sure if this will work long term.

Thoughts?
 
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Dr. Anabolic

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What exactly is your point of this post? I have a doctorate and the site is anabolic minds so I put two and two together. I belong to other forums where my posts are in the thousands, this obviously isn't one of them. I know you are a frequent poster here with high rep, but I just don't see the point of posting one liners which don't contribute to the thread. Not even in the other forums I belong to I don't understand why people do this. If it is repeatedly marked as a stupid question I will simply delete the post but I feel it is a legit question.
 
Nac

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Long-term cruise/blasting Id be cognizant of the potential heart risks in particular, and proactively seeking to do everything reasonable to keep blood pressure at "normal" levels and minimise the atherosclerosis/plaque/clotting risks of the cardiovascular system in general.
 

Dr. Anabolic

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Long-term cruise/blasting Id be cognizant of the potential heart risks in particular, and proactively seeking to do everything reasonable to keep blood pressure at "normal" levels and minimise the atherosclerosis/plaque/clotting risks of the cardiovascular system in general.
Thanks for the reply and great concern. Blood pressure is something I can easily monitor and I surely wouldn't counter it with a prescription medication with this protocol. Cholesterol, lipid panels etc can easily be monitored for atherosclerosis/plaques along with periodic EKGs or x-rays to evaluate for cardiac hypertrophy and such. Clots, same thing that is easily monitored with d-dimer, PTT/PT, CBC, and so on. These are easy and basic tests to monitor which you can order online if you want.

This is the point of the post, these cycles aren't that extreme when you consider what the upper end bodybuilder takes. I have no history of cardiac disease or anything that would interfere with this routine either. The effects of the testosterone are given a "break" while on Anavar and the liver is given a break on the upper testosterone as well.
 
Nac

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Sure, testing/bloods is great. But, me, Im wanting to proactively at least minimise CVD factors via diet and supplements, if not reduce any accumulations I may already have. Im talking stuff that may not necessarily show via a "normal" blood test (Im not paying exhorbitant clinic fees to do rare and exotic testing...unless prescribed).
 
DTA

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What exactly is your point of this post? I have a doctorate and the site is anabolic minds so I put two and two together. I belong to other forums where my posts are in the thousands, this obviously isn't one of them. I know you are a frequent poster here with high rep, but I just don't see the point of posting one liners which don't contribute to the thread. Not even in the other forums I belong to I don't understand why people do this. If it is repeatedly marked as a stupid question I will simply delete the post but I feel it is a legit question.
Anabolic rage checks out
 

Bunshichi

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Well you don't really give your receptors a break, as Oxandrolone binds to them as well.

But other than monitoring the usual health markers I don't see a big problem other than desensitisation.
However one can also run 600mg test year round without big problems for some long time.
 

user567

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No one knows the long term effects (20+ years). At 35 you are playing with fire. If you were 55 I'd say go for it. But this is reckless IMO and your setting yourself up long term to have potentially serious issues. No reason at 35 you cant get ripped with a few cycles a year. I suspect when you older your not going to care so much about your physique but your going to care a lot about your general health. My 2 cents
 
heavylifter33

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What exactly is your point of this post? I have a doctorate and the site is anabolic minds so I put two and two together. I belong to other forums where my posts are in the thousands, this obviously isn't one of them. I know you are a frequent poster here with high rep, but I just don't see the point of posting one liners which don't contribute to the thread. Not even in the other forums I belong to I don't understand why people do this. If it is repeatedly marked as a stupid question I will simply delete the post but I feel it is a legit question.
Oh really? What school did you attend? What is your specialty?
 
ALX393

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Well you don't really give your receptors a break, as Oxandrolone binds to them as well.

But other than monitoring the usual health markers I don't see a big problem other than desensitisation.
However one can also run 600mg test year round without big problems for some long time.
Not that I'm very knowledgeable with these things but I'm just throwing some ideas to the spin of things but back to the androgen receptor.. or any other body function.. won't your body be dependent on everything you are taking at some point including probably all the extra stuff wether it's to keep your heart healthy? I mean unless you don't mind paying a visit to the doc. Often till the day of your death and popping or pinning how many different things just so you remain "normal" .. sure this stuff if fun and gets you all sorts of different excitements but there's more to life then having to depend on meds or supps to keep you normal.. "oh it's lunch break, time to pop some meds for my heart to function properly." -doesn't sound like fun to me.. only saying this because God knows what problems one may have in the future even though things are "normal" for now.
 

Bunshichi

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Well if you can develop bodily dependence depends on the form of regulation of the body at the specific part.
 
Nac

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Meh, way I see it, I eat certain foods largely for their purported health benefits and not for any Epicurean fulfilment...why not look at certain suppz the same way. Theyre all ultimately ingested compounds that have certain value by virtue of their utility.

So, whether the compound comes in the form of a food or a capsule, is largely irrelevant. You depend on certain foods for health, you depend on certain supplements for health: you depend on certain compounds. Source is, again, moot.
 
fueledpassion

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I'd consider anti-inflammatory supplements. Maybe NOW foods Curcubrain, Vit K-2, Nattokinase, etc. keep the blood healthy. That's the main thing to focus on IMO. You'll more likely prevent enlargement of the heart and long term organ damage from high BP.

If you also tinker with your carbs during these cycles you could potentially keep the gains coming slow and steady.
 

Dr. Anabolic

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Sure, testing/bloods is great. But, me, Im wanting to proactively at least minimise CVD factors via diet and supplements, if not reduce any accumulations I may already have. Im talking stuff that may not necessarily show via a "normal" blood test (Im not paying exhorbitant clinic fees to do rare and exotic testing...unless prescribed).
Great point. But if one has the money and these easily available resources for this exotic testing (great wording lol) than why not?

Anabolic rage checks out
Yes I do apologize, as you can clearly tell from my posting my rage sometimes get out of control and I will try to tone down my language.

Well you don't really give your receptors a break, as Oxandrolone binds to them as well.

But other than monitoring the usual health markers I don't see a big problem other than desensitisation.
However one can also run 600mg test year round without big problems for some long time.
"Desensitization" is a very interesting aspect that many don't even realize. I see some guys taking 300mg Test as a "TRT dose" and little do they know the anabolic effects will slowly taper off yet the side effects from that dose will still be prevalent. Very ignorant of them, and dangerous. At the 600mg Test for a year I'd hope they surely come off for a long break.

No one knows the long term effects (20+ years). At 35 you are playing with fire. If you were 55 I'd say go for it. But this is reckless IMO and your setting yourself up long term to have potentially serious issues. No reason at 35 you cant get ripped with a few cycles a year. I suspect when you older your not going to care so much about your physique but your going to care a lot about your general health. My 2 cents
Thanks for the input and valid points. However, is it really playing with fire if you are carefully monitoring, heck maybe it's even more healthier because you are so conscious of your health. The test and anavar are two different mechanisms here and your body is given a break when on the other. Now if I said I was going to take 500+ Test/week and 80mg Anavar together and never cycle off, even with careful monitoring I can without a doubt say this a stupid thing to do which will have it's negative effects on you eventually. However, I'm here to brainstorm and get others opinions on how the cycle I listed in the original post would be unhealthy. Now you say "nobody knows", which means nobody can really prove it's not safe either.

Oh really? What school did you attend? What is your specialty?
Yeah I'll hop right on that because me simply telling you that will prove it. Oh and steroid talk, would you like me to post my full name as well? I'm not here to discuss my credentials I was simply clarifying why I chose the screen name I have. I am not giving medical advice or claiming to be an expert in the area and what my doctorate is in is irrelevant as I was simply clarifying why I chose my screen name.

Not that I'm very knowledgeable with these things but I'm just throwing some ideas to the spin of things but back to the androgen receptor.. or any other body function.. won't your body be dependent on everything you are taking at some point including probably all the extra stuff wether it's to keep your heart healthy? I mean unless you don't mind paying a visit to the doc. Often till the day of your death and popping or pinning how many different things just so you remain "normal" .. sure this stuff if fun and gets you all sorts of different excitements but there's more to life then having to depend on meds or supps to keep you normal.. "oh it's lunch break, time to pop some meds for my heart to function properly." -doesn't sound like fun to me.. only saying this because God knows what problems one may have in the future even though things are "normal" for now.
Depending on meds to remain "normal" vs depending on meds to "excel beyond normal" are two different things. Call it vanity or whatever, but if a certain medication makes me stronger, faster, and bigger for the rest of my life you bet I will be dependent on it as long as it is relatively safe. Which is a gray area, which is why I am posting on here- to get input from people who have perhaps thought of this or even tried it out themselves.
 
DTA

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Great point. But if one has the money and these easily available resources for this exotic testing (great wording lol) than why not?


Yes I do apologize, as you can clearly tell from my posting my rage sometimes get out of control and I will try to tone down my language.



"Desensitization" is a very interesting aspect that many don't even realize. I see some guys taking 300mg Test as a "TRT dose" and little do they know the anabolic effects will slowly taper off yet the side effects from that dose will still be prevalent. Very ignorant of them, and dangerous. At the 600mg Test for a year I'd hope they surely come off for a long break.


Thanks for the input and valid points. However, is it really playing with fire if you are carefully monitoring, heck maybe it's even more healthier because you are so conscious of your health. The test and anavar are two different mechanisms here and your body is given a break when on the other. Now if I said I was going to take 500+ Test/week and 80mg Anavar together and never cycle off, even with careful monitoring I can without a doubt say this a stupid thing to do which will have it's negative effects on you eventually. However, I'm here to brainstorm and get others opinions on how the cycle I listed in the original post would be unhealthy. Now you say "nobody knows", which means nobody can really prove it's not safe either.


Yeah I'll hop right on that because me simply telling you that will prove it. Oh and steroid talk, would you like me to post my full name as well? I'm not here to discuss my credentials I was simply clarifying why I chose the screen name I have. I am not giving medical advice or claiming to be an expert in the area and what my doctorate is in is irrelevant as I was simply clarifying why I chose my screen name.


Depending on meds to remain "normal" vs depending on meds to "excel beyond normal" are two different things. Call it vanity or whatever, but if a certain medication makes me stronger, faster, and bigger for the rest of my life you bet I will be dependent on it as long as it is relatively safe. Which is a gray area, which is why I am posting on here- to get input from people who have perhaps thought of this or even tried it out themselves.
I'm just messing with you bro. I'd be interested to see how your blood work is long-term. I hate my cruises
 

Cycloman

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IMO you don't want to cruise with added gear. Just keep to the TRT dose. Also, if your liver values were not affected with 50mg of Var / daily it was probably fake. You may opt to increase the HCG dose during the cruise and lower the test amount. Lastly, your AI during the blast seems a bit low for 400mg / week of Test - but everyone is different. I would need 1mg ED myself at that level
 

Dr. Anabolic

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IMO you don't want to cruise with added gear. Just keep to the TRT dose. Also, if your liver values were not affected with 50mg of Var / daily it was probably fake. You may opt to increase the HCG dose during the cruise and lower the test amount. Lastly, your AI during the blast seems a bit low for 400mg / week of Test - but everyone is different. I would need 1mg ED myself at that level
Thanks. I actually was at 0.5 daily for awhile as it took some playing around w doses. Why do you recommend increasing the hcg during the cruise? If anything I was going to lower it. Also i was thinking of increasing the cruise and blast to 250,500 test cyp, respectively. What do you think of that dose?
 

Cycloman

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Hey bro. A few more thoughts for you: regarding HCG - we are finding a wealth of subjective benefits as it backfills other hormone pathways and stimulates multiple LH receptor sites throughout the body. Most guys on TRT dose 250-300 IUs the day before and the day of their weekly shot as it helps bump your body's Test level a bit as your Cyp shots kick in. Personally - I'm on 300 EOD but I use Androgel and this combo keeps me at over 1,000 (and that's in the Trough so likely 1200-1400 after the injection / application ). I love it. Anyway - back to you - during the cruise - you can get a little more bang for the buck with the HCG (although you do need to watch E2). For what you listed above - personally that's way too high on a cruise. 250 mg / wk is borderline cycle. I don't know all your particulars in terms of how you absorb, etc but I would think 125-150 mg weekly test plus 250 IU HCG 2x week with an AI would put you at the top of normal (likely higher). Don't get lulled by the Testosterone buzz bro ( 80s lifter / bodybuilder here so I know believe me - I have to fight myself to keep to my maintenance dose). Health first. Also if you have never tried blasting before - do 350mg / week. This will get you some nice gains while minimizing sides.
 
Justlooking5

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Did you guys see improvements in the gym (size, strength, body comp improvements) just from starting TRT? If so, what kinds?
 

Dr. Anabolic

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Hey bro. A few more thoughts for you: regarding HCG - we are finding a wealth of subjective benefits as it backfills other hormone pathways and stimulates multiple LH receptor sites throughout the body. Most guys on TRT dose 250-300 IUs the day before and the day of their weekly shot as it helps bump your body's Test level a bit as your Cyp shots kick in. Personally - I'm on 300 EOD but I use Androgel and this combo keeps me at over 1,000 (and that's in the Trough so likely 1200-1400 after the injection / application ). I love it. Anyway - back to you - during the cruise - you can get a little more bang for the buck with the HCG (although you do need to watch E2). For what you listed above - personally that's way too high on a cruise. 250 mg / wk is borderline cycle. I don't know all your particulars in terms of how you absorb, etc but I would think 125-150 mg weekly test plus 250 IU HCG 2x week with an AI would put you at the top of normal (likely higher). Don't get lulled by the Testosterone buzz bro ( 80s lifter / bodybuilder here so I know believe me - I have to fight myself to keep to my maintenance dose). Health first. Also if you have never tried blasting before - do 350mg / week. This will get you some nice gains while minimizing sides.
Yes you are right I meant 500 a week HCG (divided into two doses of 250)! I corrected this in the original post. My biggest concern w increasing the hcg is the E2 as I'm relatively sensitive to estrogen and gyno. Is the difference bw 400 and 500mg Test worth it when you account in side effects? How long do YOU run your blasts?
 

Cycloman

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Yes - I see a lot of improvements. It's very noticeable and I've only been on TRT for a little over 2 months. Strength is up ( every lift I have increased by a few plates), recovery and most of all - vascularity (I haven't had veins like this in my arms since my 20s).

The biggest improvement is in mood, cognitive ability, energy and how I handle stress. All I can say is it's been a total game changer for me and thank God I finally found a good DR who understands this stuff and was willing to help me. Most of them were too happy to leave me with the testosterone level of a 65 y/o because I was 'normal'.
 

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Dr A - keep in mind that I'm 50 y/o so my goals may be very different than yours. My number #1 priority is to not screw with myself (prostate, hematacrit, etc.) - also - I have only been on TRT officially since February of this year (I went 'on' in October then tried an HPTA restart with clomid but I couldn't maintain the Test level - so I said 'screw it' - I'm going on".

I have been slowly trying different combounds and planning a short blast (4 weeks). I've done a lot of research on this and for me - this would be a good way to go to assess sides. I have some Test E from an UGL and have been adding about 30-60 mg each week to my normal protocol (after my normal TRT blood tests came back) to see how I reacted. That amount was not a 'blast' I was just making sure the stuff was legit, and to see how I reacted. so far so good - so probably this spring, I will either 1) blast with 350 Test E solo, or 2) keep my current protocol but add an additional 100-200 mg of Test E on top of it. I was also thinking about Sarms but you can't do a short cycle with those - so I'll stick to Test for now and see how it goes.
 
fueledpassion

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Regarding stimulating LH production - there is another product out there by Synthetek that stimulates LH activity through exogenous ATP. I was surprised to find that study and how ATP does many things in the body once introduced but to stimulate LH is something novel in it's class of supplementation.

It requires injection though but the stuff behaves almost like a mild PH when I add it to any cycle. Worth considering, IMO if you are taking daily or EOD doses of something already. It's water-based and can be added to any oil to dilute it and make the shot less painful in general...
 
Justlooking5

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Yes - I see a lot of improvements. It's very noticeable and I've only been on TRT for a little over 2 months. Strength is up ( every lift I have increased by a few plates), recovery and most of all - vascularity (I haven't had veins like this in my arms since my 20s).

The biggest improvement is in mood, cognitive ability, energy and how I handle stress. All I can say is it's been a total game changer for me and thank God I finally found a good DR who understands this stuff and was willing to help me. Most of them were too happy to leave me with the testosterone level of a 65 y/o because I was 'normal'.
As a 34 y/o with the testosterone levels of an average 85 year old (369 ng), I totally get what you're saying. I am likely to start TRT if I can't improve my levels.

Just curious, when you say you added a few plates on every exercise, are you talking like a 45 on each side for bench and squat for example?

Also, and this is a bit weird so forgive me, but morning/nocturnal erections is supposed to be one of the best ways of assessing testosterone levels.

Did you have morning and/or nocturnal erections before TRT, and did you start having them or having more of them after starting TRT? Was there any change?

I do not get morning wood ever and I see it as a major sign my test levels are fubar.
 

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So the plates I was referring to were from the machines not 45s . There was a time when my lifts progressed as such but no longer . But I figure I'm up a good 20-40 lbs depending on the exercise which isn't bad in 2 months.

Regarding the woods (nocturnal erections) yes indeed - they are back in force. Prior to TRT, even with a natural Testosterone of 430 Ng/dl (low normal) I never remember getting them. It was years. They actually wake me up sometimes and when I get up to go to the bathroom I have to hunch over the bowl and aim like I was in college if you get my drift. Despite the mega increase in wood I still need viagra or similar products for intercourse. I didn't expect that but after a certain age I guess it's still a different make and model to when we were in our 20s.
 
fueledpassion

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As a 34 y/o with the testosterone levels of an average 85 year old (369 ng), I totally get what you're saying. I am likely to start TRT if I can't improve my levels.

Just curious, when you say you added a few plates on every exercise, are you talking like a 45 on each side for bench and squat for example?

Also, and this is a bit weird so forgive me, but morning/nocturnal erections is supposed to be one of the best ways of assessing testosterone levels.

Did you have morning and/or nocturnal erections before TRT, and did you start having them or having more of them after starting TRT? Was there any change?

I do not get morning wood ever and I see it as a major sign my test levels are fubar.
For many, the one shot per week TRT only marginally improves energy and libido, TBH. What will assuredly work well is if you do daily injections, preferably with Test-P or phenylprop although enanthate and cyp are better than not doing daily shots at all. You need to model your natural hormonal setup at 15-16 years old to get that sex drive like you need it. That means daily pulsation, not a blast at the beginning of the week that rides out for 7 days.
 

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What dose would you use for a daily test E or Cyp injection?
 
fueledpassion

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What dose would you use for a daily test E or Cyp injection?
well, for simplicity sake, if you wanted to take 140mg/wk of Test-C/E, you'd do 20mg daily. Insulin needles are fine with this amount and sub-q is also ok. You don't have to do IM shots in this case because the volume is so low (only using a 1/10th of a mL daily). You'll also find that you need less AI with this approach too.

If you have enough spots you can dose when cycling large amounts of Test (say 800mg/wk), you could rotate EOD like that with similar results in the sense that you'll get better control over your estrogen and your sex drive and mood will be more stable.

Test-P would be best but I would be careful with sub-q dosing and only do sub-q in my glutes due to the tendencies of propionate to enflame the area injected. The rest would be in triceps/shoulders and quads.
 

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