Baby face --> how to treat it with hormones?

[muchstronger2]

And here comes my biggest complex in life: my baby face!

I have good muscular structure, I am thick rugby-player type, I usually get that I have a big neck.

I recently upped my T levels "naturally" with the clomids in the 1000s, have normal levels of estrogens.

So everything indicates high T except my baby face and skin texture.

I would like to go from this kind of texture:
Baby-faced robbers jailed after attacking man over PIZZA


To this:

Jason Statham - Quelle est sa taille ?

Thicker, more grain, oilier, more defined.


- is DHT the hormone responsible for the difference in the 2 faces?

- is it the only hormone involved?

- can I expect a change towards the 2nd pic if I start taking 50mg Proviron daily?

- was it a change that happened during puberty and my low DHT levels during puberty doomed me with a baby face for life?

 

[bigsmall]

You could get in an accident with a grinder?

 

[Bunshichi]

Well first of all there is much, really much involved in the look of the face and that reaches further than simply hormonal levels.

You can change the look of your face drastically with long time steroid and growth hormone abuse. But really now, you won't be happy with a face more markedly because it still will not look like you imagine.
Trust me its no solution.

And by the way be happy if you have baby like skin. Thats like one of the biggest presents the dark lord of steroids (or whoever you believe in) can make

 

[jakz]

Grow a beard.

 

[muchstronger2]

Grow a beard.

That's part of my problem: my beard is neither thick or dense enough for me to grow it.

Would a year round dose of Proviron help with that?

 

[mike33511]

How old are you? I bet you will be happy you have a "baby face" once you reach the age of 40 or so.

 

[jakz]

Dude. When I was 18 people estimated me as 22, feels bad! It's ok now that people estimate me as 30, BUT when I reach 50 this is going to be a different story.

 

[muchstronger2]

Can you guys not reframe the problem and try to make me satisfied with something I'm not?

I'm 28.

I'm looking for a solution to my problem.
If you have one you're welcome to comment.
If you don't there's no point trying to convince me I should be happy

 

[jakz]

Look. Comes down to genes. Since you want some facial hair run a cycle. Make some gains and as a bonus grow some bad ass facial hair.

 

[Alan1]

Use Evomuse Eviscerate or MPA Vasoburn as your aftershave lotion.

From babyface to chiseled cheeks in no time!

 

[jakz]

Back in High School we wanted rugged beards. What you will need is:
1.Single blade razer (Like those disposable ones)
2.Soap to make foam with.
3.The cheapest, worst and most painful aftershave you can find.

ShAve with the single blade razer EVERYDAY even if there is no hair and apply the aftershave. After a month we were sporting some seriously hard 5 o clock shadow! I'm being dead serious. It will NOT be pleasant, but you will look good

 

[kisaj]

Embrace it. People look for the fountain of youth with 100's of millions of $$ spent on face creams, injections, facials, etc to achieve what you have naturally. Consider yourself lucky.

..or just drink and smoke more while forgoing sunblock everyday.

 

[jameschoi]

Just curious what supps are you taking.

 

[vujade]

embrace your baby face. you will appreciate it one day.

im 47 now, and my baby face has helped me to get women 10 to 15 years younger then me.

 

[gagandugan]

Having baby face when you're older is amazing actually. I agree with Vujade 100%. It will pay off. In the meantime, grow a beard. Shave every day even if you don't have facial hair.

 

[muchstronger2]

Just curious what supps are you taking.

Multi
Fish oil
Probiotics
Sylimarin
Lecithin
NAC
Digestive enzymes
Choline Inositol
Glycine

 

[Volvo140G]

Everyone has things they wish were different... the grass is always greener and every lawn has weeds!

If you wanna follow Alan1's advice, evomuse eviscerate is on sale at Nutriverse

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-deals/291556-hot-spring-deals.html

 

[yates84]

Lol I am 33 and still get carded for beer any time I purchase. Learn to accept the fact that you look younger and play it to your advantage. I got a 6 years younger wife out if the deal so thanks baby face!

 

[hazard12]

http://ergo-log.com/people-with-low-cortisol-levels-have-younger-looking-face-for-longer.html

BOOM!

Evidence points towards DHT and cortisol for your problem. Off the top of my head, id say Tren or Hallotestin, maybe dien-diol are your best bets. You could try a low dose of tren with a low dose of test although im not sure how down you are for the suppression.

If you are looking for something with little supression, id say try getting a hydrocortisone prescription and some epiandro for DHT.

 

[Bunshichi]

Seriously most harsh stuff will do.
However I still feel the need to inform you again, you will not look like you imagine and probably don't really like your "ne" face as well.

 

[GreekTheBrick]

It's in the genes man. This was my sadness of my life. When I learnt to stand my feet on the ground and became experienced on how to manipulate people with my attitude and make them feel vulnerable, at 26 I dated older women, way more experienced in sex. Now at 38 I have a range of success from 18-45 women. I feel it was a blessing in disguise

 

[Ninja23]

Give minoxidil a shot

 

[muchstronger2]

I started Proviron 50mg/day to give a shot to that DHT experiment.

Ordered Bayer Proviron from Turkey, is it often faked?

 

[hairygrandpa]

That's part of my problem: my beard is neither thick or dense enough for me to grow it.

Would a year round dose of Proviron help with that?

It would make you horny, that's all.

You will need 2 friends.
A boxer to break your nose -and a wrestler to give you cauliflower ears.

 

[Fx4life]

500 test made a drastic difference in how I looked after 10 weeks

Then added tren and mast...finally grew facial hair and actually started to look my age

 

[ybg]

Did you try to get a really short haircut, like cutting all of your hair with a hair trimmer?

 

[Supercellular]

This doesn't sound like a bad thing to me...

 

[muchstronger2]

My DHT came back at 46ng/dl (16-76), so one point below median.

Would we say that 50mg/day Proviron will bring me over the upper limit of the range?

 

[BodyOfWotan]

Baby face practically means that your jawline and cheekbones aren`t pronounced (sharp) enough to really be seen and cause those sexy manly lines on your face?

Get cut as hell with DHT derivatives and below 8%BF and go on a low sodium / high potassium diet. You can supplement your water with potassium nitrate or potassium chloride, which will also help lower blood pressure (on cycle). This will get you a lean face and expose some bone structure.
Always control prolactin and estrogen on cycle or cycle with some DHT compound at all times ( Win, Anavar, Mast, Proviron).
Potassium will keep any water weight off and it`s even healthy for BP and kidneys.


Secondly you can chew gum to grow your facial muscles, which can give the appearance of a wider jaw.
And grow some beard and thick eyebrows with DHT.

Thirdly gain some f****** confidence. If your DHT is that low at High Test levels, you probably have low 5-AR levels or really long CAG repeat. DHT is the main hormone for confidence and secondary sexual characteristics, it`s basically responsible for all the good benefits of T besides mass building. Since you never had a lot of it you could supplement with 5-AR, its available as a research chemical.

 

[muchstronger2]

Baby face practically means that your jawline and cheekbones aren`t pronounced (sharp) enough to really be seen and cause those sexy manly lines on your face?

Get cut as hell with DHT derivatives and below 8%BF and go on a low sodium / high potassium diet. You can supplement your water with potassium nitrate or potassium chloride, which will also help lower blood pressure (on cycle). This will get you a lean face and expose some bone structure.
Always control prolactin and estrogen on cycle or cycle with some DHT compound at all times ( Win, Anavar, Mast, Proviron).
Potassium will keep any water weight off and it`s even healthy for BP and kidneys.


Secondly you can chew gum to grow your facial muscles, which can give the appearance of a wider jaw.
And grow some beard and thick eyebrows with DHT.

Thirdly gain some f****** confidence. If your DHT is that low at High Test levels, you probably have low 5-AR levels or really long CAG repeat. DHT is the main hormone for confidence and secondary sexual characteristics, it`s basically responsible for all the good benefits of T besides mass building. Since you never had a lot of it you could supplement with 5-AR, its available as a research chemical.

My DHT came back at 46ng/dl (19-75)
I wouldn't mind a boost.

Supplement with 5AR??
Care to elaborate how and where?

I know some supplements can boost 5AR but never seen the enzyme itself as a supplement

 

[hairygrandpa]

Baby face practically means that your jawline and cheekbones aren`t pronounced (sharp) enough to really be seen and cause those sexy manly lines on your face?

Get cut as hell with DHT derivatives and below 8%BF and go on a low sodium / high potassium diet. You can supplement your water with potassium nitrate or potassium chloride, which will also help lower blood pressure (on cycle). This will get you a lean face and expose some bone structure.
Always control prolactin and estrogen on cycle or cycle with some DHT compound at all times ( Win, Anavar, Mast, Proviron).
Potassium will keep any water weight off and it`s even healthy for BP and kidneys.


Secondly you can chew gum to grow your facial muscles, which can give the appearance of a wider jaw.
And grow some beard and thick eyebrows with DHT.

Thirdly gain some f****** confidence. If your DHT is that low at High Test levels, you probably have low 5-AR levels or really long CAG repeat. DHT is the main hormone for confidence and secondary sexual characteristics, it`s basically responsible for all the good benefits of T besides mass building. Since you never had a lot of it you could supplement with 5-AR, its available as a research chemical.

Great info here, interesting post!

 

[BodyOfWotan]

My DHT came back at 46ng/dl (19-75)
I wouldn't mind a boost.

Supplement with 5AR??
Care to elaborate how and where?

I know some supplements can boost 5AR but never seen the enzyme itself as a supplement

5-AR (5-alpha reductase) can be purchased online as a research chemical/ peptide, most commonly available as a powder or IM injection under the abbreviation SRD5A2.
It is used to test Finasteride and related pharmaceuticals ( which one should never touch).

Drawback is that I have no info or clue on dosage, but I believe that even extremely small amounts could yield amazing results.

Another Brofessor/ Broscientist idea of mine is to use SRD5A2 and test suspension, in order to produce bioidentical DHT cheaply and then make it into DHT prop/enan/cyp. DHT as an esterified steroid is theoretically available as Anaboleen (Stanolone), I have just never come across it and I believe it would cost a fortune. Moreover the process of using SRD5A2 to make DHT might be more cost efficient in terms of SRD5A2 used and less is wasted.

On a different note, I believe that using SRD5A2 in combination with Any Test ester might enable competitive athletes to test negative for steroids while using Test, because most of the test is converted to DHT and the athletes aren´t as swole as they`d be on pure test.

I have long been planning on making a post about DHT and the abovementioned as well as much more. Hoping I well get to it soon. Great to see, that interest exists.

 

[muchstronger2]

5-AR (5-alpha reductase) can be purchased online as a research chemical/ peptide, most commonly available as a powder or IM injection under the abbreviation SRD5A2.
It is used to test Finasteride and related pharmaceuticals ( which one should never touch).

Drawback is that I have no info or clue on dosage, but I believe that even extremely small amounts could yield amazing results.

Another Brofessor/ Broscientist idea of mine is to use SRD5A2 and test suspension, in order to produce bioidentical DHT cheaply and then make it into DHT prop/enan/cyp. DHT as an esterified steroid is theoretically available as Anaboleen (Stanolone), I have just never come across it and I believe it would cost a fortune. Moreover the process of using SRD5A2 to make DHT might be more cost efficient in terms of SRD5A2 used and less is wasted.

On a different note, I believe that using SRD5A2 in combination with Any Test ester might enable competitive athletes to test negative for steroids while using Test, because most of the test is converted to DHT and the athletes aren´t as swole as they`d be on pure test.

I have long been planning on making a post about DHT and the abovementioned as well as much more. Hoping I well get to it soon. Great to see, that interest exists.

Could it lead to endogenous 5AR downregulation, and therefore deficiency upon supplementation cessation?

 

[heckler7]

meth will make you look older in a month

 

[hazard12]

^^^^ LOL

 

[BodyOfWotan]

Could it lead to endogenous 5AR downregulation, and therefore deficiency upon supplementation cessation?

No. It`s an enzyme.

 

[uprightrows]

On a different note, I believe that using SRD5A2 in combination with Any Test ester might enable competitive athletes to test negative for steroids while using Test, because most of the test is converted to DHT and the athletes aren´t as swole as they`d be on pure test.

This would not work. WADA tests do not work by directly measuring the levels of testosterone you have, nor do they test based on how swole an athlete appears lol

 

[hazard12]

No. It`s an enzyme.

Your comment makes no sense...How do you think test downregulation works? At some point in the chain of downregulation, I guarantee there are enzymes whos genetic expression has been downregulated and therefore there is less of its product (the enzyme itself). An enzyme can totally be downregulated or upregulated, thats basically one of the ways how you end up with product downregulation or upregulation, another being reduced substrate.

 

[BodyOfWotan]

I wouldn´t argue that it`s impossible, but rather unlikely to occur if your using it in order to get DHT up to reasonable or slightly above average levels.
Do you have any scientific evidence that 5-AR is actually downregulated during exogenous supplementation?

 

[hazard12]

I wouldn´t argue that it`s impossible, but rather unlikely to occur if your using it in order to get DHT up to reasonable or slightly above average levels.
Do you have any scientific evidence that 5-AR is actually downregulated during exogenous supplementation?

See, you are saying different things. Your first comment was a blanket statement which I found not to be true at all. Now if you want to get specific and talk about THIS enzyme in THIS pathway then yeah, 5ar downregulation isnt really a thing with AAS. However, I have seen many finasteride users who somehow managed to downregulate theirs almost permanently (they say they "destroyed" theirs but enzymes are generated and destroyed every day, the only way to end up with long term problems is if the genetic expression of it is downregulated). I dont think 5ar is product inhibited or stimulated in any measureable manner. This is why DHT creams, epiandro and other DHT sources dont really change how your body converts testosterone to DHT. As I said though, apparently there ARE ways to mess with your 5ar in the long term just not AAS related.

Its hard to say what would happen with exogenous 5ar injections. In theory there shouldnt be any problem. However, in theory, finasteride shouldnt cause any long term problems. I am weary about this scenario because this is more like the finasteride scenario than the AAS. You arent messing with the substrate but rather the enzyme itself. There is very little if any scientific data looking at this from what I can tell so ud be shooting in the dark.

Personally, Id rather supplement with substrates or DHT itself before id ever **** with my 5ar.

 

[Bunshichi]

Your comment makes no sense...How do you think test downregulation works? At some point in the chain of downregulation, I guarantee there are enzymes whos genetic expression has been downregulated and therefore there is less of its product (the enzyme itself). An enzyme can totally be downregulated or upregulated, thats basically one of the ways how you end up with product downregulation or upregulation, another being reduced substrate.

Thats true for sure.

We have enzyme kinetics with constitutively active enzymes only needing to bind the substrate. There again is competetive inhibition.
Then there is allosteric regulation.

Then we do have a level below regulation about protein modifications leading to the enzyme being a working complex or not.

There is also regulation on translation levelregulating how much of the polypeptides will be made out of the mRNA.

And of course regulation on transcription level. There we have classic transcription factors for example. Regulation of how much mRNA is made happens here.

And between transcription and translation level splicing has to happen where some mechanisms of regulation are possible, too.


I don't know however in what ways 5-alpha-reductase is regulated with wich steps being most critical in this case.
However even downregulation of transcription to nil is certainly possible on the biological standpoint regarding all proteins.

 

[Bunshichi]

5-AR (5-alpha reductase) can be purchased online as a research chemical/ peptide, most commonly available as a powder or IM injection under the abbreviation SRD5A2.
It is used to test Finasteride and related pharmaceuticals ( which one should never touch).

Drawback is that I have no info or clue on dosage, but I believe that even extremely small amounts could yield amazing results.

Another Brofessor/ Broscientist idea of mine is to use SRD5A2 and test suspension, in order to produce bioidentical DHT cheaply and then make it into DHT prop/enan/cyp. DHT as an esterified steroid is theoretically available as Anaboleen (Stanolone), I have just never come across it and I believe it would cost a fortune. Moreover the process of using SRD5A2 to make DHT might be more cost efficient in terms of SRD5A2 used and less is wasted.

On a different note, I believe that using SRD5A2 in combination with Any Test ester might enable competitive athletes to test negative for steroids while using Test, because most of the test is converted to DHT and the athletes aren´t as swole as they`d be on pure test.

I have long been planning on making a post about DHT and the abovementioned as well as much more. Hoping I well get to it soon. Great to see, that interest exists.

Always trying to get an injectable DHT ester as well. Could even only find the base as powder at sites not that trustworthy to me.

From a less bro perspective at that point:
It depends on the quantity you want to make.

You would need even for small lab amounts a heating block with shaking function (with a shaking incubator beeing prefferable), exact pipetts and a way of DHT isolation to get rid of the used buffer and the water. For adding the ester I would have to ask a chemist.

So what you need to do is find out a buffer solution allowing for 5ar to work efficiently and to find out a time frame the enzyme needs to process a given amount of the substrate to a certain degree.

Now as you do not produce for medical standarts at least you won't have to get rid of the enzyme and left substrate before esterifying and injecting making production cheaper.

However if you wan't to produce amounts that actually allow for human use you will have have to look into system biology, with the need of some kind of bioreactor. Otherwise your convertion rate will be way to unefficient.

 

[IronWoman]

in 10 years you'll look back like WTF was I thinking. Enjoy it, these things doing last forever.

 

[BodyOfWotan]

See, you are saying different things. Your first comment was a blanket statement which I found not to be true at all. Now if you want to get specific and talk about THIS enzyme in THIS pathway then yeah, 5ar downregulation isnt really a thing with AAS. However, I have seen many finasteride users who somehow managed to downregulate theirs almost permanently (they say they "destroyed" theirs but enzymes are generated and destroyed every day, the only way to end up with long term problems is if the genetic expression of it is downregulated). I dont think 5ar is product inhibited or stimulated in any measureable manner. This is why DHT creams, epiandro and other DHT sources dont really change how your body converts testosterone to DHT. As I said though, apparently there ARE ways to mess with your 5ar in the long term just not AAS related.

Its hard to say what would happen with exogenous 5ar injections. In theory there shouldnt be any problem. However, in theory, finasteride shouldnt cause any long term problems. I am weary about this scenario because this is more like the finasteride scenario than the AAS. You arent messing with the substrate but rather the enzyme itself. There is very little if any scientific data looking at this from what I can tell so ud be shooting in the dark.

Personally, Id rather supplement with substrates or DHT itself before id ever **** with my 5ar.

Yes, I realize the blanket statement about enzymes was incorrect, good to see that you seem to think similarily about 5-AR though. You expressed very clearly what I thought, DHT can certainly be f***** up by external factors like diet and pharmaceuticals, thus the existence of Post FInasteride Syndrome (PFS). I`ve heard of individuals with PFS speculating about 5-AR supplementation, however there are simply no verifiable reports or studies.

Supplementing 5-AR does indeed pose quite the dangers- too much could lower Testosterone and Estrogen to unhealthy levels. I was suggesting 5-AR rather as a last option and out of research interest. Where I live every DHT compound except Winstrol is just too expensive.

On a different note Sorghum extract has been shown to boost 5-AR significantly (up to 52% if I recall correctly)

 

[Bunshichi]

If winstrol is too expensive, whats with anavar?

 

[Volvo140G]

Let's see your face, get an idea of what we're dealing here....

 

[BodyOfWotan]

If winstrol is too expensive, whats with anavar?

I said that every DHT compound except Winstrol is expensive, incl. Anavar ( Most expensive along with Proviron and no reputable brand).
Winstrol I can use occasionally, but obviously it`s no long term thing due to hepatoxicity.

As I said before, I`ll do a DHT dedicated thread, we`ve kinda hijacked this one...

 

[BodyOfWotan]

Let's see your face, get an idea of what we're dealing here....

Yeah. Pics so we know what we`re dealing with.

 

[Bunshichi]

I said that every DHT compound except Winstrol is expensive, incl. Anavar ( Most expensive along with Proviron and no reputable brand).
Winstrol I can use occasionally, but obviously it`s no long term thing due to hepatoxicity.

As I said before, I`ll do a DHT dedicated thread, we`ve kinda hijacked this one...

Now I get you xD
Please Tag me if you make one.

 

[muchstronger2]

Yes, I realize the blanket statement about enzymes was incorrect, good to see that you seem to think similarily about 5-AR though. You expressed very clearly what I thought, DHT can certainly be f***** up by external factors like diet and pharmaceuticals, thus the existence of Post FInasteride Syndrome (PFS). I`ve heard of individuals with PFS speculating about 5-AR supplementation, however there are simply no verifiable reports or studies.

Supplementing 5-AR does indeed pose quite the dangers- too much could lower Testosterone and Estrogen to unhealthy levels. I was suggesting 5-AR rather as a last option and out of research interest. Where I live every DHT compound except Winstrol is just too expensive.

On a different note Sorghum extract has been shown to boost 5-AR significantly (up to 52% if I recall correctly)

If you're going to go the natural route to boost 5AR you're better off leaving Sorghum and going for:

- Lecithin (phosphatidylcholine + phosphatidylserine) = +250% DHT
(backed by study)

- Butea Superba = +100% DHT
(only anecdotal evidence)