First Cycle Help

[AyeJay]

Hey guys, so like a lot of people I'm needing some help with my first cycle so I do this right the first time. I made this account just so I could get feedback/assistance. Before I start, I'm 24, about 210, with ~11% body fat. I've been lifting for about 6 years (since I was 18). Currently I am doing both powerlifting as a morning routine and a typical workout in the evenings. I want to train for a few competitions later down the road, and I think PHs will help a TON with aesthetics and strength. I know 24 is right on the border in terms of a first PH cycle, which is why I want input before I pull the trigger on anything.

My goal is to cut fat, increase muscle, and get leaner with more definition. I know that this isn't done with just PH's alone; nutrition is a BIG part of this all and that's the first area of input I need. While on cycle, I plan on having around 350g of protein daily, with around 40g of fat or so and around 200g of carbs. During PCT, to avoid gaining any fat, I plan on switching back to around 200g of protein, 65g of fat, and 150g of carbs. Should my numbers be different/what do you recommend?

For the actual cycle itself, it's as follows (I got this plan from another website with some slight changes)
Pre-cycle:
-Aegis preload for one week
-Talos preload for one week

Cycle:
-SUP3R-EPI 2 / 2 / 2 / 2
-Aegis recommended dosages during whole cycle
-Talos recommended dosages during whole cycle
- Basic Supports (multivitamins(Centrum??), whey, etc.)

Post Cycle:
-Nolvadex 20 / 20 / 10 / 10
-PES AnaBeta Elite 2 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 2
-DAA 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3
-PES Erase Pro 0 / 0 / 1 / 1 / 1 / 1
- Letrozole just in case
- If possible, Talos + Aegis through PCT for 4 weeks

I am waiting for the results from my pre-cycle bloodtest but I'll have those on hand before I do anything. I am extremely worried about gyno because I had a slight problem with it through puberty but it was corrected, and I feel like I'd be more susceptible to it. Again, any suggestions/recommendations are welcome. Thank you!

 

[ChocolateClen]

Get rid of the DAA post cycle, not sure about the rest of the stuff but I know you gotta drop that. It doesn't help at all

 

[AyeJay]

Ah okay, sounds good. Thanks!

 

[Afi140]

You're just running super-epi? Iirc the doses are 250mg so you're running 500mg daily for 4 weeks. If you want to stay that route you can probably go otc pct and lose the talos. I personally (Even as a first cycle and cutting ) would add in 1-andro. Epi works very well with other compounds and you can still gain mass and lose fat with a 1/epi combo.

I would also extend the cycle to 8 weeks for both compounds. They're pretty mild and since you have full pct lined up recovery should be a breeze. If you consider adding a 1-andro product you want ~300mg a day. Super mandro and super-1 elite would be the best bang for your buck at full doses.

 

[AyeJay]

The reason I wanted only 1 was because I know that side effects are hard to target if you run 2. But I will admit I don't know the strength of the PHs so I wanted to stay mild. So with the Super mandro and super-1 elite it'd be:

3 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 (3 pills per day over 8 weeks)

Does that sound right?

 

[Afi140]

The reason I wanted only 1 was because I know that side effects are hard to target if you run 2. But I will admit I don't know the strength of the PHs so I wanted to stay mild. So with the Super mandro and super-1 elite it'd be:

3 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 (3 pills per day over 8 weeks)

Does that sound right?

Yes that dosing is good. . Just don't want to see you run all the supports and pct for such a minimal cycle. Of course only run what you feel comfortable with but 1-andro would be a nice addition.

 

[jesus_sanchez]

Using pro hormones to get the results you desire is like drivin to NY on the worst roads imaginable. Take a plane (United AnabolicMinds Airways) and get there safer, sooner, and with a mountain of scientific and great anecdotal evidence to support. Cheers!!!

 

[mjdel05]

That's alot for cycle support for some epi -andro imo

 

[AyeJay]

Thanks a ton for the help. Also, since the cycle would be extended to 8 weeks, would the PCT be extended to 12 weeks as well, with Nolvadex extending the 10mL for 4 extra weeks?

 

[AyeJay]

Mjdel05, I know it's a bit overkill but like I said, it's my first cycle and I know I'm already gyno prone and I don't want to risk anything. I can ease myself into stronger PHs down the road, but this is to just get a good understanding of how I can handle PHs

 

[mike33511]

Did you already buy the Talos and Aegis? They look like crap, to be honest, the Aegis especially.

 

[AyeJay]

Yeah I already bought them. I read that with TUDCA, it's better safe than sorry. Usually you should have them when you run anything methylated, but it wouldn't hurt either

 

[mike33511]

Yeah I already bought them. I read that with TUDCA, it's better safe than sorry. Usually you should have them when you run anything methylated, but it wouldn't hurt either

Yeah, but each cap only has 85mg of TUDCA. An effective dose is 500-1000mg daily. And TUDCA is really only necessary for some of the harsher methyls.

 

[AyeJay]

I don't know 100% about effective dosages but daily you're taking 340mg, 2 pills twice a day. If the effective dosage is 500mg then yeah they're pretty bad :/

 

[ChocolateClen]

I don't know 100% about effective dosages but daily you're taking 340mg, 2 pills twice a day. If the effective dosage is 500mg then yeah they're pretty bad :/

It's better than nothing. It's just both the best out there

 

[bigsmall]

You're just running super-epi? Iirc the doses are 250mg so you're running 500mg daily for 4 weeks. If you want to stay that route you can probably go otc pct and lose the talos. I personally (Even as a first cycle and cutting ) would add in 1-andro. Epi works very well with other compounds and you can still gain mass and lose fat with a 1/epi combo.

I would also extend the cycle to 8 weeks for both compounds. They're pretty mild and since you have full pct lined up recovery should be a breeze. If you consider adding a 1-andro product you want ~300mg a day. Super mandro and super-1 elite would be the best bang for your buck at full doses.

I ran EpiAndro and 1-Andro at 330 for 6 weeks and had too much lethargy. To combat lethargy next cycle, I was going up the EpiAndro from 300 to 500-and then 750mg And Or add 200mg of 4-Andro. I want to use this cycle for a cut and was going to keep the 4-Andro low if at all. What do you think?

 

[Afi140]

I ran EpiAndro and 1-Andro at 330 for 6 weeks and had too much lethargy. To combat lethargy next cycle, I was going up the EpiAndro from 300 to 500-and then 750mg And Or add 200mg of 4-Andro. I want to use this cycle for a cut and was going to keep the 4-Andro low if at all. What do you think?

Yeah you can up epi to 750mg or even a gram a day to help. Low dose 4- andro would also help. Some people don't like it because it's technically wet and can add a little bloating but never bothered me too much.

 

[AyeJay]

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone for the help. I think I finally have things sorted out!

 

[Afi140]

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone for the help. I think I finally have things sorted out!

No problem. Feel free to pm with any more questions

 

[AntM1564]

Drop the DAA, if you have't already. You can use your money better elsewhere.

Twenty-four males, with a minimum of two years' experience in resistance training, (age, 24.5 ± 3.2 y; training experience, 3.4 ± 1.4 y; height, 178.5 ± 6.5 cm; weight, 84.7 ± 7.2 kg; bench press 1-RM, 105.3 ± 15.2 kg) were randomised into one of three groups: 6 g.d(-1) plain flour (D0); 3 g.d(-1) of d-aspartic acid (D3); and 6 g.d(-1) of d-aspartic acid (D6). Participants performed a two-week washout period, training four days per week. This continued through the experimental period (14 days), with participants consuming the supplement in the morning. Serum was analysed for levels of testosterone, estradiol, sex hormone binding globulin, albumin and free testosterone was determined by calculation.

D-aspartic acid supplementation revealed no main effect for group in: estradiol; sex-hormone-binding-globulin; and albumin. Total testosterone was significantly reduced in D6 (P = 0.03). Analysis of free testosterone showed that D6 was significantly reduced as compared to D0 (P = 0.005), but not significantly different to D3. Analysis did not reveal any significant differences between D3 and D0. No significant correlation between initial total testosterone levels and responsiveness to d-aspartic acid was observed (r = 0.10, P = 0.70).

The present study demonstrated that a daily dose of six grams of d-aspartic acid decreased levels of total testosterone and free testosterone (D6), without any concurrent change in other hormones measured. Three grams of d-aspartic acid had no significant effect on either testosterone markers. It is currently unknown what effect this reduction in testosterone will have on strength and hypertrophy gains.

Three and six grams supplementation of d-aspartic acid in resistance trained men. - PubMed - NCBI

Resistance-trained men resistance trained 4 times/wk for 28 days while orally ingesting either 3 g of placebo or 3 g of D-ASP. Data were analyzed with 2 × 2 analysis of variance (P < .05).

The gonadal hormones were unaffected by 28 days of D-ASP supplementation and not associated with the observed increases in muscle strength and mass. Therefore, at the dose provided, D-ASP supplementation is ineffective in up-regulating the activity of the hypothalamo-pituitary-gonadal axis and has no anabolic or ergogenic effects in skeletal muscle.

D-aspartic acid supplementation combined with 28 days of heavy resistance training has no effect on body composition, muscle strength, and serum ho... - PubMed - NCBI
The first study I referenced regarding DAA was published recently (2015), and used subjects with at least 2 years experience resistance training, and the study also had subjects train 4-days a week. If you look at the full text (which I put a link to below), you'll see that both 3g and 6g DAA REDUCED free testosterone relative to no DAA (although the decrease was only significant in the 6g group):

 

[AyeJay]

I found the first study a bit later after someone earlier recommended no DAA. I dropped it immediately. Thank you for the help though, it's really appreciated!