rkmich
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Hello all...had another post going "47 yr old male, first PH cycle help"...and huge thanks to all for your inputs, but maybe changing direction and thought it best to start new thread
First, my stats...
Age 47
BW 170 lb
BF ~12%
Been in the strength and conditioning game a very long time, powerlifting most of the time, but past 10 years or it has been crossfit-like (strength training plus metcons). Probably in the best overall shape of my life (and coming from decades of wrestling and judo, that is saying something). Very healthy, eat very clean (paleo, carb cycling), all biomarkers very good (just had blood work done).
But for sure not a spring chicken anymore and considering PH cycle for a little extra "boost"...and by boost, a little lean mass and recomp, but mostly looking for strength boost with not too much mass gain.
After all the feedback from y'all looked like 1a + 4a (or transdermal super DHEA) was going to be best choice for a first cycle, but...
I had read good things about MSTEN (especially related to strength gains), found some, and couldn't resist, so acquired couple bottles (hard to get, wanted to jump on it while I had the chance).
I am a little nervous about the liver and blood pressure negative side effects of MSTEN as it is methylated, but it seems if you take appropriate support during cycle, keep dosage lower, and keep cycle to 4 weeks, then should not be issue.
So first, what are everyone's thoughts on running MSTEN for a first cycle? Again I am thinking to run for only 4 weeks, dosage 10-20mg (but 20mg maximum).
Second, if I were to run MSTEN plus something, what would be best? I am thinking at least a test base would be a good idea, so either 4a or Olympus transdermal super DHEA. What about 1a or Epia? Taking it a step further, how about transdermal Trest as test base? Though the high estrogen conversion of Trest makes me nervous. Never had man boobs, don't want em now! Already I had ruled out Trest, but thought I would throw it back in to get everyone's thoughts.
Maybe to ask in a simpler way...If you had MSTEN, 1a, 4a (or Super DHEA or Trest), and/or Epia, what would be a safe yet very effective 8 week cycle combining some or all of these compounds? I definitley think at least a test base (4a or other) will be a must to run along with MSTEN to counteract the loss of libido and potential lethargy that seems to be fairly common.
My first thought would be to do a "kick-start" so to speak of the first 4 weeks with MSTEN plus other 2-step conversion PH, then second 4 weeks dropping MSTEN and continuing run with the other PHs.
Of course all of this assumes appropriate on-cycle and post-cycle support, but I will get to that after I solidify the PH portion (yes, I need your help with that also ;-)).
As to the PCT, I would at least say that SERM going to be a must....At my age, I am sure shutdown going to be hard, and also difficult to bring the "boys" back to normal levels. As to finding a SERM (and also Exemestane or Arimidex), well, that is another matter I am still working on and need to figure out :-(
As a first line of thinking for the PH part of this cycle, maybe something like:
Weeks 1-4
MSTEN 20/20/20/20 (or maybe 10/20/20/20, lower dosage at first just to see how my body reacts, then kick it up to 20 id all is well)
4andro 330/330/330/330 or trasmdermal DHEA or Trest ???
Epiandro 500/500/500/500
*** My thinking is with MSTEN, no need for 1andro. But, use 4andro and Epiandro as test base as I am sure MSTEN will shut me down hard
Weeks 5-8
4andro 440/440/440/440 or trasmdermal DHEA or Trest ???
1andro 500/500/500/500
Epiandro 500/500/500/500
*** Kick-up 4andro to help with high expected shutdown at end of MSTEN cycle
*** Add 1andro in to act as a "mild" MSTEN and keep the gains going
Weeks 9-12
SERM (clomid/nolva) + OTC PCT (Kingsblood, testify, CEL Mtest, etc.)
Other on-cycle support will be:
AI on hand just in case (especially if I go with Trest)
liver (milk thistle, NAC, especially TUDCA needed with MSTEN I guess, etc.)
blood pressure
taurine (5g/day for possible back pumps)
joint supp
multi-vit, creatine, carnitine, etc (the usual "staples")
any others I should consider ???
*** Or, should I just forget the MSTEN for now and just stick with my initial 1A + 4A + EpiA cycle? Especially if I am unable to acquire a SERM and AI, there is no way I am going to run MSTEN!
Would greatly appreciate everyone's advice. Would like to start some sort of cycle within next 2 weeks or so.
Thanks!
First, my stats...
Age 47
BW 170 lb
BF ~12%
Been in the strength and conditioning game a very long time, powerlifting most of the time, but past 10 years or it has been crossfit-like (strength training plus metcons). Probably in the best overall shape of my life (and coming from decades of wrestling and judo, that is saying something). Very healthy, eat very clean (paleo, carb cycling), all biomarkers very good (just had blood work done).
But for sure not a spring chicken anymore and considering PH cycle for a little extra "boost"...and by boost, a little lean mass and recomp, but mostly looking for strength boost with not too much mass gain.
After all the feedback from y'all looked like 1a + 4a (or transdermal super DHEA) was going to be best choice for a first cycle, but...
I had read good things about MSTEN (especially related to strength gains), found some, and couldn't resist, so acquired couple bottles (hard to get, wanted to jump on it while I had the chance).
I am a little nervous about the liver and blood pressure negative side effects of MSTEN as it is methylated, but it seems if you take appropriate support during cycle, keep dosage lower, and keep cycle to 4 weeks, then should not be issue.
So first, what are everyone's thoughts on running MSTEN for a first cycle? Again I am thinking to run for only 4 weeks, dosage 10-20mg (but 20mg maximum).
Second, if I were to run MSTEN plus something, what would be best? I am thinking at least a test base would be a good idea, so either 4a or Olympus transdermal super DHEA. What about 1a or Epia? Taking it a step further, how about transdermal Trest as test base? Though the high estrogen conversion of Trest makes me nervous. Never had man boobs, don't want em now! Already I had ruled out Trest, but thought I would throw it back in to get everyone's thoughts.
Maybe to ask in a simpler way...If you had MSTEN, 1a, 4a (or Super DHEA or Trest), and/or Epia, what would be a safe yet very effective 8 week cycle combining some or all of these compounds? I definitley think at least a test base (4a or other) will be a must to run along with MSTEN to counteract the loss of libido and potential lethargy that seems to be fairly common.
My first thought would be to do a "kick-start" so to speak of the first 4 weeks with MSTEN plus other 2-step conversion PH, then second 4 weeks dropping MSTEN and continuing run with the other PHs.
Of course all of this assumes appropriate on-cycle and post-cycle support, but I will get to that after I solidify the PH portion (yes, I need your help with that also ;-)).
As to the PCT, I would at least say that SERM going to be a must....At my age, I am sure shutdown going to be hard, and also difficult to bring the "boys" back to normal levels. As to finding a SERM (and also Exemestane or Arimidex), well, that is another matter I am still working on and need to figure out :-(
As a first line of thinking for the PH part of this cycle, maybe something like:
Weeks 1-4
MSTEN 20/20/20/20 (or maybe 10/20/20/20, lower dosage at first just to see how my body reacts, then kick it up to 20 id all is well)
4andro 330/330/330/330 or trasmdermal DHEA or Trest ???
Epiandro 500/500/500/500
*** My thinking is with MSTEN, no need for 1andro. But, use 4andro and Epiandro as test base as I am sure MSTEN will shut me down hard
Weeks 5-8
4andro 440/440/440/440 or trasmdermal DHEA or Trest ???
1andro 500/500/500/500
Epiandro 500/500/500/500
*** Kick-up 4andro to help with high expected shutdown at end of MSTEN cycle
*** Add 1andro in to act as a "mild" MSTEN and keep the gains going
Weeks 9-12
SERM (clomid/nolva) + OTC PCT (Kingsblood, testify, CEL Mtest, etc.)
Other on-cycle support will be:
AI on hand just in case (especially if I go with Trest)
liver (milk thistle, NAC, especially TUDCA needed with MSTEN I guess, etc.)
blood pressure
taurine (5g/day for possible back pumps)
joint supp
multi-vit, creatine, carnitine, etc (the usual "staples")
any others I should consider ???
*** Or, should I just forget the MSTEN for now and just stick with my initial 1A + 4A + EpiA cycle? Especially if I am unable to acquire a SERM and AI, there is no way I am going to run MSTEN!
Would greatly appreciate everyone's advice. Would like to start some sort of cycle within next 2 weeks or so.
Thanks!