Who here is on TRT?

Justlooking5

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Hello all,

I am interested in hearing about everyone's experiences with Testosterone Replacement Therapy. I am a 34 y/o male who has what I believe to be androgen induced hypogonadism. I did several cycles of gear from age 19-24, and for the last 7-10 years my natural test levels have never risen above 400 without intervention, and my most recent results came back at 369 ng/dl despite a very good diet, sleep, and exercise regimen.

I am considering starting TRT, but would like to get more opinions. I've talked to a hormone replacement therapy clinic run by an MD, and the assistant seemed to think I'd be a good candidate with levels at 369 ng/dl. "Very low for your age."

I'm mainly concerned about:

1. Risks
2. What if I have to come off at some point?
3. Affect on lifespan

I anticipate that my quality of life would be quite a bit better as currently I have fatigue, erectile issues, low mood/motivation, family says I used to be much more vibrant person, etc.

Just looking for firsthand experiences with TRT and whether you would suggest starting it.

Thanks!
 

Randallk21

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Hello all,

I am interested in hearing about everyone's experiences with Testosterone Replacement Therapy. I am a 34 y/o male who has what I believe to be androgen induced hypogonadism. I did several cycles of gear from age 19-24, and for the last 7-10 years my natural test levels have never risen above 400 without intervention, and my most recent results came back at 369 ng/dl despite a very good diet, sleep, and exercise regimen.

I am considering starting TRT, but would like to get more opinions. I've talked to a hormone replacement therapy clinic run by an MD, and the assistant seemed to think I'd be a good candidate with levels at 369 ng/dl. "Very low for your age."

I'm mainly concerned about:

1. Risks
2. What if I have to come off at some point?
3. Affect on lifespan

I anticipate that my quality of life would be quite a bit better as currently I have fatigue, erectile issues, low mood/motivation, family says I used to be much more vibrant person, etc.

Just looking for firsthand experiences with TRT and whether you would suggest starting it.

Thanks!
1. You can google the risk, just know that they are worst case scenarios in most. If you take care of yourself TRT is highly beneficial from my experience. Only problem I've had is high hemocrit and it's been easily managed by donating blood.

2. If you have to come off you will most likely feel awfu, but wouldn't be end of world.

3. I've read of it having positive effects on diabetes and cholesterol as opposed to hypo men. Been years since I've seen that, it was when I first started TRT. Could be off a little im just trying to get you started in then right direction.
 
Justlooking5

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So you have not had any health issues or negative lipid changes?

Could you tell me your age/length of time and test levels (i.e, 800 ng/dl) on TRT?

Have you ever tried to come off? What if the current clinic you're at closes?

Thank you.
 

Randallk21

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So you have not had any health issues or negative lipid changes?

Could you tell me your age/length of time and test levels (i.e, 800 ng/dl) on TRT?

Have you ever tried to come off? What if the current clinic you're at closes?

Thank you.
No negative impact on lipids and I'm guessing mine floats around 1000. I inject 80mg twice a week and about 12 hours after an 80mg injections I had test levels in excess of 1500. 24yo been on for 3 1/2 years and I go to a doctor. If anything happens I'll find a new doctor. Thought about coming off and made it about 12 days and just couldn't take feeling that way anymore.
 
AnabolicGuru

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I'm also interested in this; can somebody who is on trt tell me how their training is? Do you feel that before trt you plateaued a lot? Did trt fix that? Just would like to know how trt effects you in the gym
 
jgntyce

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Great thread OP. Subbed.
 
justhere4comm

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I just started a protocol which is very conservative using the Sub Q protocol. After discussing this with my doctor, I will be the only one of his patients on this, and will be journaling it for him.

1. Risks, the risks of TRT are a rise in blood pressure, hematocrit, RBC, and Estriadol which I believe will be mitigated by low dose Sub Q maximizing the amount of Testosterone administered by a slower dispersion with more frequent injections Sub Q.d It will allegedly yield an increase by 20% over the amount administered. If I am on 50mg twice per week, I can theoretically inject .2 instead of .25ml that would bring the number up to 48mg, if I am using a 200mg/ml 10ml vial.

2. What if you have to come off at some point? If for health reasons you have to come off, of which I cannot think of any that come to mind, I would think it more important to address those health considerations than how you feel about not being on protocol for a time. If this is a permanent consideration, there would be alternatives to replace it most likely such as using Clomid which I have seen. I'd need more information as to what you mean by this.

3. Affect on Lifespan? Let's look at this further from a different angle.

Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) does not shorten your lifespan. There are quite good published studies now to show that TRT has in fact the potential to lengthen your lifespan. It may do this by reducing coronary artery disease, warding off Type ll diabetes and reducing visceral fat.

I think a better question to add would be.
What are some signs of Low Testosterone?

A decrease in:
  • Libido
  • Stamina
  • Energy
  • Mental Alertness
  • Aggression
  • Muscularity
An increase of
  • Osteoporosis
  • Joint Pain
  • Depression
  • Body Fat
  • Stress

Too Much Testosterone Linked to Shorter Life Spans
http://www.healthline.com/health-news/men-too-much-testosterone-linked-to-shorter-lifespan-112213
Researchers found men with the lowest testosterone levels had the highest mortality rate, followed by men with the highest testosterone levels. Overall, men with circulating testosterone levels between 9.8 to 15.8 nmol/L range tended to live the longest.
This is an interesting article that speaks to a sweet spot for longevity regarding too much or too little Testosterone with a misleading title.

Can Testosterone Lengthen a Man’s Life? (Part One)
http://www.ageology.com/can-testosterone-lengthen-a-mans-life-part-one/

Can Testosterone Lengthen a Man’s Life? (Part Two)
http://www.ageology.com/can-testosterone-lengthen-a-mans-life-part-two/

Some further reading
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/gquery/?term=TRT
 

Randallk21

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Solid post for all the new people to be game! How long have you been on 4comm?
 
justhere4comm

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Solid post for all the new people to be game! How long have you been on 4comm?
I'm on my third week, and so far so good. I'm going to test on week 8 to see where I'm at; then adjust if necessary, and report my findings to my doctor moving forward to see how this plays through.
 

InItForGainz

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I'm also interested in this; can somebody who is on trt tell me how their training is? Do you feel that before trt you plateaued a lot? Did trt fix that? Just would like to know how trt effects you in the gym
Before I was diagnosed and put on my initial TRT injections my life was seriously sh*t!

Lethargy
Low Mood
Clinical Depression
No Erections
No Sexual Desire
No Social Life
Constant Joint Pain
Weakness, Even When Walking
Soft, Saggy Muscles
No Muscle Tone Or Pump
No Improvements In Lifts

After Diagnosis And With Treatment
Loads Of Energy
Overall Good Mood
No Longer On Depression Meds
Wood!!!
Sex!!!
Introvert>Extrovert
Less Joint Pain
Feeling Stronger
Muscle Tone And Firmness Is Improving
Returning Pump Feeling
Improvements In Body Composition
 
justhere4comm

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Good to hear you are doing so much better!
 

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I'm 35, had two rounds of bloodwork done and had one really low test results and one came back normal. My dr won't help me even though I feel like hammered crap 24/7.
 

InItForGainz

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Good to hear you are doing so much better!
That was with the injections from my old Endo, it's all started to go downhill since the new Endo reduced it to the TestoGel and then lowered the dose of that too.

Hence why I'm buying my own Test and going to administer my own TRT protocol.

TRT-
60mg of Test C Every Three Days.

AI
3.25mg of Aromasin Every Three Days.

DHEA+Preg
2 Pumps Per Day

Just working on needles, storage and figuring if I need any other ancillaries now
 
justhere4comm

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That was with the injections from my old Endo, it's all started to go downhill since the new Endo reduced it to the TestoGel and then lowered the dose of that too.

Hence why I'm buying my own Test and going to administer my own TRT protocol.

TRT-
60mg of Test C Every Three Days.

AI
3.25mg of Aromasin Every Three Days.

DHEA+Preg
2 Pumps Per Day

Just working on needles, storage and figuring if I need any other ancillaries now
3.25mg? Isn't that a little high? I thought it would be more like .5 maybe but I'm not sure now.
Is the DHEA and Pregame treating you well? Are they both pump? Who makes that? I've got oral, but have yet to take them as I'm seeing how my numbers pan out after my first 8 weeks. I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible before adding anything in or making changes.
 

InItForGainz

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3.25mg? Isn't that a little high? I thought it would be more like .5 maybe but I'm not sure now.
Is the DHEA and Pregame treating you well? Are they both pump? Who makes that? I've got oral, but have yet to take them as I'm seeing how my numbers pan out after my first 8 weeks. I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible before adding anything in or making changes.
I haven't started administering the TRT yet, still figuring out which needles to use for drawing and Sub-Q injecting, looking into Insulin pins at the moment to keep pain and scarring to a minimum.
The 3.25mg of Aromasin every three days will be a starting dose, I'll adjust it from there depending on how badly the Estrogen sides are from the Test C.
I've taken DHEA+Preg a few times before in the form of BPS' TD Dermacrine. I'm going to start the Dermacrine again on Sunday to help it build up whilst I wait for my Test and Aromasin to arrive.
 
justhere4comm

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I haven't started administering the TRT yet, still figuring out which needles to use for drawing and Sub-Q injecting, looking into Insulin pins at the moment to keep pain and scarring to a minimum.
The 3.25mg of Aromasin every three days will be a starting dose, I'll adjust it from there depending on how badly the Estrogen sides are from the Test C.
I've taken DHEA+Preg a few times before in the form of BPS' TD Dermacrine. I'm going to start the Dermacrine again on Sunday to help it build up whilst I wait for my Test and Aromasin to arrive.
5/8" - 26g work well for me
Aromasin (Ah, ok and I'm really curious about this moving forward)
 

InItForGainz

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5/8" - 26g work well for me
Aromasin (Ah, ok and I'm really curious about this moving forward)
The needles come in either a 25g 1.25inch or 28g 1.5Inch. I'm quite confused as which to use for drawing and which to use for injecting...Could I use the same needle to draw and inject?
I chose to use Aromasin because it's a suicidal AI, so it'll dispose of the excess estrogen immediately and permenantly.
 
justhere4comm

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28g no way.
26g or 25g
No longer than 5/8" for subq.

I get why the AI at least on hand. I've got it.

You should be able to get 5/8" needles.
 

InItForGainz

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28g no way.
26g or 25g
No longer than 5/8" for subq.

I get why the AI at least on hand. I've got it.

You should be able to get 5/8" needles.
Why not the 28g?
Do you use the 26g for drawing and injecting?
 
justhere4comm

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Yes sir. Both.
I think it would be too difficult with 28g.
 
AnabolicGuru

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Before I was diagnosed and put on my initial TRT injections my life was seriously sh*t!

Lethargy
Low Mood
Clinical Depression
No Erections
No Sexual Desire
No Social Life
Constant Joint Pain
Weakness, Even When Walking
Soft, Saggy Muscles
No Muscle Tone Or Pump
No Improvements In Lifts

After Diagnosis And With Treatment
Loads Of Energy
Overall Good Mood
No Longer On Depression Meds
Wood!!!
Sex!!!
Introvert>Extrovert
Less Joint Pain
Feeling Stronger
Muscle Tone And Firmness Is Improving
Returning Pump Feeling
Improvements In Body Composition
Thanks! I have an appointment with the endo in a month, I'll be getting bloodwork done and seeing where im at; I personally feel that I might need trt, I'll have to mention it while im there
 
justhere4comm

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How long does it usually take to inject your 50mg with the 26?
About 10 seconds, and then I leave the needle in for a second before withdrawing.

Thanks! I have an appointment with the endo in a month, I'll be getting bloodwork done and seeing where im at; I personally feel that I might need trt, I'll have to mention it while im there
Good luck! My doctor put my feet to the fire with that conversation (GP) but only because he knows me so well, and wanted to make me sweat a little about coming to the office for injections, or the pellets, or the gel. I just started at him for a minute quizzically and then said, I'd rather do a Sub Q protocol and self-inject bi-weekly. He was like, that sounds "sports related" lol. I told him I'd document the process and journal my results after 8 weeks at 50mg per 4 days. He just smiled and wrote out the script. Bastard. I do love him, he's a great doctor.
 

InItForGainz

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About 10 seconds, and then I leave the needle in for a second before withdrawing.

So draw and inject with the 26g,
Leave in for a minute to settle,
Massage in?

Good luck! My doctor put my feet to the fire with that conversation (GP) but only because he knows me so well, and wanted to make me sweat a little about coming to the office for injections, or the pellets, or the gel. I just started at him for a minute quizzically and then said, I'd rather do a Sub Q protocol and self-inject bi-weekly. He was like, that sounds "sports related" lol. I told him I'd document the process and journal my results after 8 weeks at 50mg per 4 days. He just smiled and wrote out the script. Bastard. I do love him, he's a great doctor.
Damn! Wish my doctor was that cool
 
justhere4comm

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Damn! Wish my doctor was that cool
That's not all. He told me to get the 10ml vials like he uses in his office, and then wrote out 2ml/14 days so they could not try to sell me the 1ml vials. So 200mg/ml @ 2ml/14days (200mg/week) which I'm not doing but damn that was offing cool of him. They tried anyway at the pharmacy, so I pointed to the script and reminded them how inconvenient that would be and how my doctor stated clearly 10ml vial.
 

Randallk21

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Yes sir. Both.
I think it would be too difficult with 28g.
I inject I'm with a 30 and 31 gauge 3 times a week. I can draw 2 oils and shoot in 8-10 minutes. The extra time to draw is worth the wait to me, I'll never use a bigger needle again.
 
supaslowdx

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Been on trt for about 3 months now. I draw with an 18 and pin with a 25g-5/8". The 18 draws almost by itself and I prefer the delt for pinning. No pain and haven't had as much as a drop of blood yet. Pinning 50mg e3.5d.

This has brought me from low normal to high normal with perfect estrogen level and good cbc panel.
 
supaslowdx

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One thing I will mention though if you draw with an 18. Be sure to always try and hit the stopper on the same spot or it can eat it up pretty bad.

I use to draw with a 21 and it wasn't nearly as bad but the 18 draws probably 3 times faster; I'm impatient lol.

I've even pinned with a 21 but it did actually hurt a little, 23 is not bad, 25 is painless.
 
dondon

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Before I was diagnosed and put on my initial TRT injections my life was seriously sh*t!

Lethargy
Low Mood
Clinical Depression
No Erections
No Sexual Desire
No Social Life
Constant Joint Pain
Weakness, Even When Walking
Soft, Saggy Muscles
No Muscle Tone Or Pump
No Improvements In Lifts

After Diagnosis And With Treatment
Loads Of Energy
Overall Good Mood
No Longer On Depression Meds
Wood!!!
Sex!!!
Introvert>Extrovert
Less Joint Pain
Feeling Stronger
Muscle Tone And Firmness Is Improving
Returning Pump Feeling
Improvements In Body Composition
That's great to hear, I'm getting my blood work done so I can go on TRT. I have a question, what type of test were you on and how many mgs per week. Thanks.
 
jmyers

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I've been on TRT for over a year now. I take 200 mgs. every Monday afternoon. I'm 34 yo. and prior to TRT my T Levels were approx 235
 
dondon

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I've been on TRT for over a year now. I take 200 mgs. every Monday afternoon. I'm 34 yo. and prior to TRT my T Levels were approx 235
How are you feeling now compared to before you started?
 

InItForGainz

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That's great to hear, I'm getting my blood work done so I can go on TRT. I have a question, what type of test were you on and how many mgs per week. Thanks.
My original Endo Doctor gave me weekly 120mg Test Cypionate injections.
Now that I'm doing my own TRT I'm planning on 140mg Test Cypionate per week at 2x70mg to keep blood levels stable, prevent peaks and falls and to keep my E2 down too.

As a side note though, if you're going to be starting a new TRT protocol it won't be instant. Even with the best Endo Doctor in world it's going to take time to dial in the right type of testosterone, the right dose and dosing schedule. Everybody is different with different needs
 
Movin_weight

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Running 200mg/week and usually pin with 28-29 gauge if 1ml. I use a men's clinic which ships 10ml vial, syringes, hcg, and anastrazole to my home every 2months.

Hitting the tricep or chest is easy with the insulin syringe, but I draw with 23g.

Bloods come back 900mg (5-days post last inject)

No issues with lipids or hematocrit and been on TRT 2 years

Bp is slightly elevated but has been for a while before hrt.

Feel great otherwise.
 
jmyers

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Running 200mg/week and usually pin with 28-29 gauge if 1ml. I use a men's clinic which ships 10ml vial, syringes, hcg, and anastrazole to my home every 2months.

Hitting the tricep or chest is easy with the insulin syringe, but I draw with 23g.

Bloods come back 900mg (5-days post last inject)

No issues with lipids or hematocrit and been on TRT 2 years

Bp is slightly elevated but has been for a while before hrt.

Feel great otherwise.
What clinic do you use? If you want to PM w/ the info that'd be great. Just inquiring if they would be better/cheaper than my current doctor that prescribes me TRT
 
Movin_weight

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What clinic do you use? If you want to PM w/ the info that'd be great. Just inquiring if they would be better/cheaper than my current doctor that prescribes me TRT
It's local in Chicago... Let me know and I can send you the details
 

InItForGainz

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Running 200mg

Hitting the tricep or chest is easy with the insulin syringe, but I draw with 23g
What form of Test do you pin with the insulin syringe?
Do you pin one shot of 200mg per week or do you pin smaller amounts throughout the week?
 
Movin_weight

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What form of Test do you pin with the insulin syringe?
Do you pin one shot of 200mg per week or do you pin smaller amounts throughout the week?
Cypionate in grape seed oil. I usually do 100mg 2x per week.
 
jmyers

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A little over 1 year for me. Truly the best decision I ever made.
 
Justlooking5

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I'm 35, had two rounds of bloodwork done and had one really low test results and one came back normal. My dr won't help me even though I feel like hammered crap 24/7.
You may want to look into a TRT clinic. I've found 2 in my area who will treat levels in the low 400s and below.
 
Justlooking5

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Going in to endo this Friday, we'll see if he will help me. Then next week I'll be going to a urologist who treated me previously with clomid.

My symptoms are almost identical to InItForGainz so I have hope that I'll start feeling better once I get my levels up, either with OTC approach, or OTC + clomid, or if neither of those work, TRT.

Currently my OTC regimen is the following if anyone is curious. Each of these compounds has reasonable evidence behind it. So far I do feel a bit better but not where I want to be.

Taking:

1. Zinc Picolinate 30mg/day (best form of zinc, some studies showing + test especially for those w/ low levels)
2. KSM-66 Ashwaghanda (several studies showing increase of about 90-100pts whether levels are low or even normal)
3. Magnesium oil (better absorbed form supposedly of magnesium)
4. Olive oil 3 tbsp./day (study shows in normal men +17% test levels and +42% LH compared with butter)
5. 5,000 IU Vitamin D/day

6. Experimental: w/ mixed studies/anecdotes: I am permanently quitting watching porn as it may affect dopamine/prolactin and some people have reported increased testosterone and better gains after "nofap.":

https://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/2xqzt2/testosterone_levels_increased_100_blood_test/
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/21usr3/73_days_into_nofap_testosterone_levels_up/ <- notice this guy's prolactin was halved after starting nofap, and his test and free test were higher than he's ever been tested previously.


Without getting gross I think one of the more reliable ways to measure test levels may be nighttime/am erections, or "Nocturnal Penile Tumesence".

All men without physiological erectile dysfunction experience nocturnal penile tumescence, usually three to five times during the night, typically during REM sleep.

The cause of NPT is not known with certainty. Bancroft (2005) hypothesizes that the noradrenergic neurons of the locus ceruleus are inhibitory to penile erection, and that the cessation of their discharge that occurs during REM sleep may allow testosterone-related excitatory actions to manifest as NPT.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturnal_penile_tumescence

In other words, my thought is that if you have sufficient testosterone, it is signalling >> you to have erections which you should then have during sleep. If you have low T though, you may not be getting a strong enough signal.

I have personally noticed that zinc in particular as well as olive oil tends to make me have nighttime wood. For awhile there I was never having it, but it has resumed since starting the above protocol, though mainly only at night rather than in the a.m.

For those of you who started TRT, did you notice any change in your morning/nighttime wood frequency?
 
Justlooking5

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Also, just got back from Kaiser endo and predictably it was useless. He did say my symptoms are textbook low T but my levels (369) are still within their reference range so he suggested I go to urology for erectile issues and psych for mood issues (and seemed to not want to deal with another patient period if he could help it).

I'll be switching insurance later this year as Kaiser is the wrong org to try to deal with this problem, as they are really standardized (i.e., you could have every symptom of low t but unless you're over that 240 threshold we aren't treating you).
 
jmyers

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Also, just got back from Kaiser endo and predictably it was useless. He did say my symptoms are textbook low T but my levels (369) are still within their reference range so he suggested I go to urology for erectile issues and psych for mood issues (and seemed to not want to deal with another patient period if he could help it).

I'll be switching insurance later this year as Kaiser is the wrong org to try to deal with this problem, as they are really standardized (i.e., you could have every symptom of low t but unless you're over that 240 threshold we aren't treating you).
You might be within the "normal" range, which I hate. But, you aren't within the "optimal" range. There's a huge difference. Find an actual TRT clinic where you live and have them assess you. Most places go by that damn "normal" range when it comes to diagnosing.
 

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