TRT

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Sparkss View Post
    Yes, you do seem to have a great doctor. Makes me want to start shopping around LOL.

    So that $41.50 is for 2.5 months worth? (10 weeks) That breaks down to $4.15 per week. Time for me to start researching doctors again *sigh*.
    The obvious best solution is to find a "hip, with it" local guy and get everything on insurance. If not, then you have to start going backwards, which costs more. From my limited research (because I got lucky with my local DO) you can get treated by Dr. Crisler in Lansing, MI - I've heard good things about a Dr. Saya at Defy Medical, - and I actually think Dr. Rand McClain is doing remote consults now too. I know the initial consult with Crisler is $595, and all followups are $75. Then there is whatever bloodwork is needed. We already know that GoodRx is a savior for out of pocket Test (GodRx? LOL). Start researching. (BTW - Crisler's staff likes to be contacted via email or their allthingsmale forum - you can call, but you'll have to leave a message and she'll call you back and send an email with that info ^ )

    I have no idea how switching doctors works, but maybe since you are already Rx'd TRT - it isn't that complicated to switch? I'd call every doctor on your Insurance company's list (or any, if not using insurance) and ask if they'll Rx Test Cyp for at home injection. If not, move down the list.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by The_Old_Guy View Post
    Your DO/MD went straight to 200mg/Week? What did your blood work show as far as the various Sex Hormone levels? And when is your next blood draw - I'd like to hear what 200mg/Week puts you at (and your RBC and Hematocrit).

    And did he Rx an Aromatase Inhibitor? Oh, and was he cool with SubQ? Cuz mine definitely wasn't, LOL.
    I am also curious as to how that treats your RBC/Hemocrit. Did either of you get an AI prescription? I recall @kenpoengineer noted that he takes I think it was 1/2 or 1/4 armimidex the day after his injection and that is the sweet spot for him. Maybe he can chime in.

    So far with the pellets I just take DIM (per my doctor) and that has been enough to keep my estro levels under control.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/281831-sparkss-journey-recovery.html
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by justhere4comm View Post
    ...will be starting my Sub Q protocol 100mg/2 per week.
    Ok, so it's 100mg total, and you're doing 50mg, twice per week? I read that ^ wrong.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Sparkss View Post
    I am also curious as to how that treats your RBC/Hemocrit. Did either of you get an AI prescription? I recall @kenpoengineer noted that he takes I think it was 1/2 or 1/4 armimidex the day after his injection and that is the sweet spot for him. Maybe he can chime in.

    So far with the pellets I just take DIM (per my doctor) and that has been enough to keep my estro levels under control.
    I have Exemestane coming out of my ears at home. My guy didn't bring up an AI, and I just wanted to get that script with as little interference as possible Since I knew I was going SubQ, which Crisler says can possibly mitigate the need for an AI at all, I'm just keeping a "feel" on my chesticle area - anything strange and I'll open my Aromasin and then contact him for an Rx. But I have yet to experience any E2 related issues with anything I've taken so far and while I'm a newbie at this, I'm not worried about E at TRT levels in the 6,7,800 range.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by The_Old_Guy View Post
    I have Exemestane coming out of my ears at home. My guy didn't bring up an AI, and I just wanted to get that script with as little interference as possible Since I knew I was going SubQ, which Crisler says can possibly mitigate the need for an AI at all, I'm just keeping a "feel" on my chesticle area - anything strange and I'll open my Aromasin and then contact him for an Rx. But I have yet to experience any E2 related issues with anything I've taken so far and while I'm a newbie at this, I'm not worried about E at TRT levels in the 6,7,800 range.
    The doc has the pellets dialed in to keep me in the mid 600s, which works for me. It was night and day quality of life difference when I started on it.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/281831-sparkss-journey-recovery.html
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by The_Old_Guy View Post
    Ok, so it's 100mg total, and you're doing 50mg, twice per week? I read that ^ wrong.
    Sorry. 50mg twice per week.
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by The_Old_Guy View Post
    The obvious best solution is to find a "hip, with it" local guy and get everything on insurance. If not, then you have to start going backwards, which costs more. From my limited research (because I got lucky with my local DO) you can get treated by Dr. Crisler in Lansing, MI - I've heard good things about a Dr. Saya at Defy Medical, - and I actually think Dr. Rand McClain is doing remote consults now too. I know the initial consult with Crisler is $595, and all followups are $75. Then there is whatever bloodwork is needed. We already know that GoodRx is a savior for out of pocket Test (GodRx? LOL). Start researching. (BTW - Crisler's staff likes to be contacted via email or their allthingsmale forum - you can call, but you'll have to leave a message and she'll call you back and send an email with that info ^ )

    I have no idea how switching doctors works, but maybe since you are already Rx'd TRT - it isn't that complicated to switch? I'd call every doctor on your Insurance company's list (or any, if not using insurance) and ask if they'll Rx Test Cyp for at home injection. If not, move down the list.
    I am going in today to get my next round of pellets. Since I already had him order them for me (they take a week+ to get in, so I started that process before this thread) I am going to go through with it. I don't want to leave him holding the bag on the pellets. But I will have a frank discussion on whether or not he will switch me to self-administered injections or not, when this current round of pellets is done. If not, then I am off to start doctor hunting. I have the labs to support a new prescription if needed. I am not too worried about finding one, it is just a hassle if I have to start shopping. I am hoping that my doc will weigh the cost of losing me and the rest of my family as patients (he knows me and my wife both use him for our GP) against whatever his margin is for the pellets. .


    Quote Originally Posted by justhere4comm View Post
    No sir. 200mg/ml 10ml vial. Draw was in the morning and I scored 200
    Quote Originally Posted by justhere4comm View Post
    Sorry. 50mg twice per week.
    So the biggest difference between 100mg/ml and 200mg/ml is that you only have to dose .25 ml instead of .5 ml when using the 200mg/ml? (when taking 50mg twice a week)


    What days/times do you guys do your injections? Any more feedback on the subq method? I watched the video and he did mention something like "every 10th injection you may get a hot spot" or something like that. Basically that it is not 100% pain free, but reasonably so.

    I did some research on travelling with TRT supplies, including syringes. It appears that the TSA allows them in carry-on baggage so long as the label/prescription is intact and valid. And I did read that Test-C should be stored at room temperature, so no worries there (unlike HCG).
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/281831-sparkss-journey-recovery.html

  8. Real quick and I will expand on this later. I'm actually starting out at .2 mg x2 weekly for 4-5 weeks then draw bloods.

    If in fact there is a 20% increase in T by sub q. My numbers should be predictable slightly in comparing them to 100 mg weekly.

    I'm expecting 600nl/dl.
    I may yield more or less. No HCG so we will see e2 as well. No AI at least for now.
    VEIN NUTRITION - PREMIUM BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS
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  9. I'm doing Monday 6AM, and Thursday 6PM - exactly 3.5 Days apart per week. 50mg each time (0.5ml, 0.5cc, or 50 Units... take your pick - from a 100mg/ml vial). Using either the 25G 5/8, or the 26G 3/8, the injection is 99.9% pain free for me - seriously, doing a finger prick to measure blood glucose/ketones hurts more, LOL.

  10. Thanks. What injection site are you both using?


    For sub-q why does Crissler advocate using the abs versus a more "fatty" area like the glutes? (just curious if I missed his justification). Is it considered an easier site to hit? Thanks!
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/281831-sparkss-journey-recovery.html

  11. 5/8" 25g abs in fat. I've got less fat on my butt. Go where the fat is or love handles with z.

    No pain.
    Monday and Friday morning
    VEIN NUTRITION - PREMIUM BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS
    CLICK ME > VEIN NUTRITION : USE "JUST410" for 10% OFF
    IG: @VeinNutrition

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Sparkss View Post
    Thanks. What injection site are you both using?


    For sub-q why does Crissler advocate using the abs versus a more "fatty" area like the glutes? (just curious if I missed his justification). Is it considered an easier site to hit? Thanks!
    I (unfortunately ) can do it where he does it in the video - so I do. No idea, but probably what you said, and I like being able to hold the barrel near the skin as I push the plunger.

  13. Going on 7 years of TRT here.

    -Went through a year+ of testing, changing lifestyle, getting DECA, MRI, gut health checks, etc..
    -I started at 200mg weekly for the first 3 months. Saw immediate results, but also started experiencing sides with e2 and BP.
    -Dropped back to 100mg weekly and e2 sides disappeared, symptoms subsided and felt pretty good.
    -About 2 years in, I started studying Prenenolone and DHEA supplementing and brought this to my endo. He felt it wasn't necessary as I was in the mid-range, but decided to go for it. 50mg preg and 25 mg DHEA sublingual.
    - After a couple of weeks, I was a new man. More energy than I knew what to do with, confidence, libido, overall alpha. Endo tested levels and I was at the very top of the range for preg and DHEA with test levels remaining at what they were before supplementing. No e2 issues. This has remained part of my protocol.
    - 2 years ago decided to move to 50mg e3.5d and saw some improvement in mood, but mainly it kept my test levels lower and more stable. I'd peak around 850-900 and trough in high 500s/low 600s. However, it became a PITA, literally, and scar tissue was building and the timing was inconvenient.
    -As of 6 months ago I am back to 100mg e7d and feel the same as with e3.5d, except that I have experienced improved muscle mass and fat loss. I peak around 1350 and trough in the mid 600s. Peaking on the higher, slight outside of physiological levels has improved muscle mass. I pretty quickly went from walking around 205ish to 210ish within 30 days and dropped by eye gauge 1-2%bf.

    So that is where I am. 100mg test cyp e7d, 10mg preg/25mg DHEA eod, no AI. I will keep an AI around for the times I know I'll be drinking as I tend to blow up with water gain very fast, but that is about it.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Sparkss View Post
    I did some research on travelling with TRT supplies, including syringes. It appears that the TSA allows them in carry-on baggage so long as the label/prescription is intact and valid. And I did read that Test-C should be stored at room temperature, so no worries there (unlike HCG).
    I've flown with all my stuff (testosterone, Anastrozole, syringes, hCG) in my checked baggage and never had any problems. I've never tried with a carry-on though.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Going on 7 years of TRT here.

    -Went through a year+ of testing, changing lifestyle, getting DECA, MRI, gut health checks, etc..
    -I started at 200mg weekly for the first 3 months. Saw immediate results, but also started experiencing sides with e2 and BP.
    -Dropped back to 100mg weekly and e2 sides disappeared, symptoms subsided and felt pretty good.
    -About 2 years in, I started studying Prenenolone and DHEA supplementing and brought this to my endo. He felt it wasn't necessary as I was in the mid-range, but decided to go for it. 50mg preg and 25 mg DHEA sublingual.
    - After a couple of weeks, I was a new man. More energy than I knew what to do with, confidence, libido, overall alpha. Endo tested levels and I was at the very top of the range for preg and DHEA with test levels remaining at what they were before supplementing. No e2 issues. This has remained part of my protocol.
    - 2 years ago decided to move to 50mg e3.5d and saw some improvement in mood, but mainly it kept my test levels lower and more stable. I'd peak around 850-900 and trough in high 500s/low 600s. However, it became a PITA, literally, and scar tissue was building and the timing was inconvenient.
    -As of 6 months ago I am back to 100mg e7d and feel the same as with 33.5d, except that I have experienced improved muscle mass and fat loss. I peak around 1350 and trough in the mid 600s. Staying on the higher, slight outside of physiological levels has improved muscle mass. I pretty quickly went from walking around 205ish to 210ish within 30 days and dropped by eye gauge 1-2%bf.

    So that is where I am. 100mg test cyp e7d, 10mg preg/25mg DHEA eod, no AI. I will keep an AI around for the times I know I'll be drinking as I tend to blow up with water gain very fast, but that is about it.
    I also supplement my TRT with Pregnenolone and DHEA. They are pretty cheap OTC supplements. That is interesting about the e7d vs e3.5d assessment and the pros/cons of both. Great feedback. Thanks!

    EDIT: I will add that 600+ is good for me, mid to low 500's and I literally can start to feel it. Quality of life difference between the low 600's and mid to low 500's (for me) is distinct. When I drop below 500 it is night and day different
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/281831-sparkss-journey-recovery.html

  16. Quote Originally Posted by mike33511 View Post
    I've flown with all my stuff (testosterone, Anastrozole, syringes, hCG) in my checked baggage and never had any problems. I've never tried with a carry-on though.
    I figured worst case if they took away the syringes I could just pick some up at a pharmacy at my destination. It is not like they would take away the test-c vial and alcohol wipes (so long as I am under the carry on liquid amounts, which I would be).
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/281831-sparkss-journey-recovery.html

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Sparkss View Post

    EDIT: I will add that 600+ is good for me, mid to low 500's and I literally can start to feel it. Quality of life difference between the low 600's and mid to low 500's (for me) is distinct. When I drop below 500 it is night and day different
    I agree with you. I feel my best in 600-800. Above that I see the aggression to a small degree and below that I see moodiness. However, it is matter of balance with convenience and sustainability over the long haul, so e7d is currently better. I think we all know, if you have been on for awhile, that it will be a constant adjustment.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by The_Old_Guy View Post
    GoodRx, Walgreen's, check it for your zip code. 10ml of 200mg/ml is even cheaper (when you take into account that you get more if you are at 100mg/Week).
    pretty pricey here

    Prices and coupons for 1 vial (10ml) of testosterone cypionate 100mg/ml

    Walgreens 27.91
    CVS 44.00
    Walmart 57.54
    I live in Florida.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/281831-sparkss-journey-recovery.html

  19. [QUOTE=Sparkss;5681336]pretty pricey here

    Prices and coupons for 1 vial (10ml) of testosterone cypionate 100mg/ml

    Walgreens 27.91
    CVS 44.00
    Walmart 57.54[\QUOTE]

    I live in Florida.
    That's 10 weeks of 100mg... That's $2.79 a week. ?? 1 Coffee is more 😁

  20. I got tired of dealing with Walgreens and CVS with all the BS changes regarding vial sizes- they will only dispense monthly so I have to get 1ML bottles and pay each time. Now I just pay cash and buy it straight from my doc for $75. Considering that lasts me 3 months, it's cheaper than any OTC test booster. LOL

  21. That's strange because at Walgreens with GoodRx 200mg/ml 10ml vial costs 41.58 at Walgreens while it is 35.40 or so at CVS. The only reason I get it filled at Walgreens is the proximity to our house and it's crazy driving to CVS. I'd rather not die driving surrounded by crazy old people to get my prescription. I can walk to Walgreens. (Walmart is the most expensive, isn't that odd?)

    I initially bought my needles from there after the kid behind the counter was questioning me about Sub Q and trying to find the needles... I was like, so, there is quite a bit of data on it, and I'm surprised nobody else coming here wants 5/8" 25g needles. It's worth an effort to see how beneficial it is, even in light of some solid data already form @kisaj. I want to make a go initially towards leveling my numbers out and then compare after 6 weeks of Sub Q, should I choose to go IM.
    VEIN NUTRITION - PREMIUM BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS
    CLICK ME > VEIN NUTRITION : USE "JUST410" for 10% OFF
    IG: @VeinNutrition

  22. [QUOTE=The_Old_Guy;5681349]
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkss View Post
    pretty pricey here


    That's 10 weeks of 100mg... That's $2.79 a week. ?? 1 Coffee is more ��
    yea, I edited my post after I did the math, but forgot to also edit the preface I had written
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/281831-sparkss-journey-recovery.html

  23. Quote Originally Posted by justhere4comm View Post
    That's strange because at Walgreens with GoodRx 200mg/ml 10ml vial costs 41.58 at Walgreens while it is 35.40 or so at CVS. The only reason I get it filled at Walgreens is the proximity to our house and it's crazy driving to CVS. I'd rather not die driving surrounded by crazy old people to get my prescription. I can walk to Walgreens. (Walmart is the most expensive, isn't that odd?)

    I initially bought my needles from there after the kid behind the counter was questioning me about Sub Q and trying to find the needles... I was like, so, there is quite a bit of data on it, and I'm surprised nobody else coming here wants 5/8" 25g needles. It's worth an effort to see how beneficial it is, even in light of some solid data already form @kisaj. I want to make a go initially towards leveling my numbers out and then compare after 6 weeks of Sub Q, should I choose to go IM.
    my doc said he would switch me over to test-c injections after this run of pellets (since he already purchased the pellets), which I am fine with. He did tell me about all the downsides to injections vs the pellets.

    1. Test levels fluctuate a lot more (day to day)
    2. Pulmonary Embolism is possible due to the oil in the injections
    3. Skin necrosis at injection site
    4. Scarring at injection site leading to painful nodules (collagen build up that impedes blood flow)

    But he also told me that his information was dated. He hasn't done anything other than pellets for the last decade or so it sounded, but he did used to do injections. His recollection was 1 ml - 2 ml at a time, which sounds a lot like e7d dosing and possibly lesser concentrations than we have today.

    Between the e3.5d dosing, high concentration test-c available (less overall injected each time so less oil) and that reduces or greatly mitigates his 1st two concerns. The last two can happen with pellets also, to be frank, and the chance/risk of them may be even further lessened by going sub-q.

    I got the impression that he really did not want me to switch off of the pellets, but he did say that he would do whatever I wanted, so long as he felt that I fully understood and accepted the risks. So in 5 ~ 6 months I will be jumping over. For today he actually had ordered me an extra pellet, since I used my last set up in 5 months, he expects this set to last up to 6. We will see. At the very least I may end up with a higher level of test .
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/281831-sparkss-journey-recovery.html

  24. @kisaj Sorry, tons of questions coming your way

    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    - 2 years ago decided to move to 50mg e3.5d and saw some improvement in mood, but mainly it kept my test levels lower and more stable. I'd peak around 850-900 and trough in high 500s/low 600s. However, it became a PITA, literally, and scar tissue was building and the timing was inconvenient.
    How did the building scar tissue manifest itself? Was it muscle soreness that didn't subside with rest? Hard nodules under the skin? Harder to inject over time?

    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    I agree with you. I feel my best in 600-800. Above that I see the aggression to a small degree and below that I see moodiness. However, it is matter of balance with convenience and sustainability over the long haul, so e7d is currently better. I think we all know, if you have been on for awhile, that it will be a constant adjustment.
    For e7d: How bad was the aggression? How long did it last? (hours, days) No issues with the massive swings in test levels screwing with your system? (sleep, lipids or anything else). When does the moodiness start? how does it last? (until after the next shot?) Did you feel crashed by the time the next dose was due? You may be one of the lucky ones who metabolize closer to the high end of between 4.5 and 8 days.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/281831-sparkss-journey-recovery.html

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Sparkss View Post
    @kisaj Sorry, tons of questions coming your way

    How did the building scar tissue manifest itself? Was it muscle soreness that didn't subside with rest? Hard nodules under the skin? Harder to inject over time?
    - It took a few years and I switch from cheek to cheek, but it became noticeable as the needle would not easily slide in. You can actually feel it go through the scar tissue and it's slightly painful. Once the needle is in, injection is normal, but getting it in is difficult. I've switched to different areas on the glute to help.



    For e7d: How bad was the aggression? How long did it last? (hours, days) No issues with the massive swings in test levels screwing with your system? (sleep, lipids or anything else). When does the moodiness start? how does it last? (until after the next shot?) Did you feel crashed by the time the next dose was due? You may be one of the lucky ones who metabolize closer to the high end of between 4.5 and 8 days.

    -Aggression isn't bad and very manageable, but I am hyper aware of any changes and did notice it. Typically it crops up the day after injection as would be expected and subsides on day 3-4 as test levels drop back. I do not notice any drop and by the time I am ready for next injection I am fine. I do not experience the roller coaster, but I also manage my free test, preg/DHEA, and dopamine levels pretty well, and those are all in play.
    No problem, I'm happy to provide personal experience for any guidance. Answers inline.
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