TRT

[The_Old_Guy]

I could have sworn there was a dedicated TRT section...

Anyway, I am now in the club. Rx'd 100mg Test Cyp per week, which I am doing 50mg twice a week - SubQ per the Dr. Crissler protocol. From what I'm seeing 100mg/Week is a decent first script - I go back in 3 weeks, I assume for bloodwork to check levels. Insurance company wanted hoops to be jumped through to pay for the Test Cyp - I declined the hoops and paid out of pocket at the whopping price of $2.70 per week for the generic. Depending on where I am in 3 weeks, I hope my GP is equally as cool about getting me "optimal", as he was the initial consult - but no complaints so far.

 

[Randallk21]

I started off at 200 a week and man did it make a difference.

 

[justhere4comm]

I thought there was as well. Seeing my doc tomorrow about my levels, and potential need for TRT. I'd be happy with 100mg per week split, but would not turn my nose up at 200mg if that is what he wanted to start out with. (Seems a bit on the top end from my research on the topic).

I look forward to following this thread. Maybe it should eventually become a sticky?

 

[mike33511]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/

 

[justhere4comm]

I think The Old Guy meant, a sub-forum of Anti-Aging specifically geared towards TRT.

 

[Admin]

I think The Old Guy meant, a sub-forum of Anti-Aging specifically geared towards TRT.

That is basically.

 

[mike33511]

I think The Old Guy meant, a sub-forum of Anti-Aging specifically geared towards TRT.

That link is it.

200mg is the top end. No need to start at that amount. I'm very interested in subq injections for TRT. Dr. Crisler believes that they allow for less testosterone to be needed to achieve the same levels, and that they result in less aromatization, as well.

 

[Admin]

I could have sworn there was a dedicated TRT section...

Anyway, I am now in the club. Rx'd 100mg Test Cyp per week, which I am doing 50mg twice a week - SubQ per the Dr. Crissler protocol. From what I'm seeing 100mg/Week is a decent first script - I go back in 3 weeks, I assume for bloodwork to check levels. Insurance company wanted hoops to be jumped through to pay for the Test Cyp - I declined the hoops and paid out of pocket at the whopping price of $2.70 per week for the generic. Depending on where I am in 3 weeks, I hope my GP is equally as cool about getting me "optimal", as he was the initial consult - but no complaints so far.

You do a local guy?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/

Ah crap, thought I looked too! Thanks. Tablet won't bring it up, have get back to the desktop.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

You do a local guy?

Yea, same guy I (rarely) go to for antibiotics or something. Older D.O. - late 50's early 60's maybe. I almost went straight to Dr. Crissler for $595 plus whatever else. But I figured I'd see what my local guy can do first, and at least save the consult and blood work fees using insurance. He needed convincing as far as the method - he started talking about Gels/Creams... Told him no way, kids, wanted shots, and I travel a lot too, so can't come in for them.

 

[Admin]

Ah crap, thought I looked too! Thanks. Tablet won't bring it up, have get back to the desktop.

On the app is will be under Anti-Aging discussion, then Male Anti-Aging.

 

[MidwestBeast]

That link is it.

200mg is the top end. No need to start at that amount. I'm very interested in subq injections for TRT. Dr. Crisler believes that they allow for less testosterone to be needed to achieve the same levels, and that they result in less aromatization, as well.

Had never heard of that protocol, but definitely intriguing stuff. In to follow along just because I saw it was The_Old_Guy who started this thread and I appreciate what he posts.

Hoping to not join that club for another 10+ years, but love learning ahead of time.

 

[Admin]

Less test needed, and also less estrogen since you are giving it a more stable release with more frequent shots.

 

[Randallk21]

There should be a sub forum in the anabolics. The male anti-aging one gets ignored like the plague.

 

[Admin]

There should be a sub forum in the anabolics. The male anti-aging one gets ignored like the plague.

Umm....it is.

 

[Randallk21]

Umm....it is.

I guess I didn't word something right, but what I was talking about was a TRT section up there with cycle info, old school hormone use, etc. maybe it shows up different on my phone than a computer.

 

[Nac]

Looking forward to all the meatheadz "bro 100mg is way not enuff get on my 250mg cruise level!!"

 

[Randallk21]

Looking forward to all the meatheadz "bro 100mg is way not enuff get on my 250mg cruise level!!"

lol right. 24 hours after an 80mg injections my test was in excess of 1500.

 

[Toren]

It's nice to see someone is trying the sub-q injection method. Not many people know about it or are willing to try it with Test injections. I've looked into it a bit but I am far from well-read on the topic.

Where are you injecting? Abdomen? Shoulder? From what I've read, injections into fat deposits equate to a very slow release of the active but can also cause calcifications and lumps. Your saving grace may be the fact that you are only doing small injections each time so the amount of fluid will be small.

Definitely interested in your response to this protocol. Thanks for another great thread topic!

 

[The_Old_Guy]

It's nice to see someone is trying the sub-q injection method. Not many people know about it or are willing to try it with Test injections. I've looked into it a bit but I am far from well-read on the topic.

Where are you injecting? Abdomen? Shoulder? From what I've read, injections into fat deposits equate to a very slow release of the active but can also cause calcifications and lumps. Your saving grace may be the fact that you are only doing small injections each time so the amount of fluid will be small.

Definitely interested in your response to this protocol. Thanks for another great thread topic!

From the man himself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdY8_QHXDrM

First injection was with a 5/8" 25G, but I just got a box of 3/8" 26G in today's mail for tonight's.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

On the app is will be under Anti-Aging discussion, then Male Anti-Aging.

Found it.

 

[Nac]

From the man himself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdY8_QHXDrM

First injection was with a 5/8" 25G, but I just got a box of 3/8" 26G in today's mail for tonight's.

So Im assuming Crissler doesnt make any recommendations for those who wish to also blast. Does he mention a subq upper limit or anything of the sort?

Like, can I pin my 3ml tezt/tren/deca subq?

 

[Jebrook]

So Im assuming Crissler doesnt make any recommendations for those who wish to also blast. Does he mention a subq upper limit or anything of the sort?

Like, can I pin my 3ml tezt/tren/deca subq?

Not unless you want a golf ball size lump that will stick around for months. Lol.

 

[Nac]

Not unless you want a gold ball size lump that will stick around for months. Lol.

Yeah well thats my assumption on blasting too.

Guess that means one of a couple things.

No blasting. Fuk that.

Subq pin for trt dose of test, 2nd IM pin for other compounds. But what if I wanna run higher than trt dose of test?

Looks like this subq really just for trt purposes only.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Yeah well thats my assumption on blasting too.

Guess that means one of a couple things.

No blasting. Fuk that.

Subq pin for trt dose of test, 2nd IM pin for other compounds. But what if I wanna run higher than trt dose of test?

Looks like this subq really just for trt purposes only.

Or do multiple 0.5cc injections? I didn't feel the 5/8" pin, and I really didn't feel the 3/8" I just did - so multiple sites is nothing. But I have no idea how much you can push in one site. He has a forum.

 

[mike33511]

Or do multiple 0.5cc injections? I didn't feel the 5/8" pin, and I really didn't feel the 3/8" I just did - so multiple sites is nothing. But I have no idea how much you can push in one site. He has a forum.

I believe he recommends no more than 0.5cc in a single subcutaneous injection. He also advises not to pinch the skin, as one would with an hCG injection, and this should minimize the appearance of painful lumps.

 

[Nac]

I believe he recommends no more than 0.5cc in a single subcutaneous injection. He also advises not to pinch the skin, as one would with an hCG injection, and this should minimize the appearance of painful lumps.

Hmm, the data on subq looks really fukn good, but dunno how I feel about doing up to half a dozen seperate pins EOD on a blast. Might try the technique next cruise and go from there. May end up reassessing my blasts.

 

[mike33511]

Hmm, the data on subq looks really fukn good, but dunno how I feel about doing up to half a dozen seperate pins EOD on a blast. Might try the technique next cruise and go from there.

The only reason I would ever do it on a blast is if I were pinning ED.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I believe he recommends no more than 0.5cc in a single subcutaneous injection. He also advises not to pinch the skin, as one would with an hCG injection, and this should minimize the appearance of painful lumps.

Yea, I just watched his vid twice and then did it. It's easy and virtually pain free. I'm going into the lower Ab fat like where he does it on himself in the vid. This is so user friendly, IM (for TRT) seems like the Dark Ages

 

[Sparkss]

Or do multiple 0.5cc injections? I didn't feel the 5/8" pin, and I really didn't feel the 3/8" I just did - so multiple sites is nothing. But I have no idea how much you can push in one site. He has a forum.

Yea, I just watched his vid twice and then did it. It's easy and virtually pain free. I'm going into the lower Ab fat like where he does it on himself in the vid. This is so user friendly, IM (for TRT) seems like the Dark Ages

no PIP? I am going in for my second round of pellets, my doctor's preferred method. I already am less than a fan of the method, but would need to find a new doctor and likely have to allow my test to tank again for new labs if I wanted to switch to pinning. But the < $3 per week seems like a steal compared to what I pay for the pellets. Plus I have never pinned. Seems like you just do it twice a week? I thought I saw EOD mentioned. You mentioned you travel, how is it travelling with the syringe/vials? Do you need to check your bags? How much per month do the syringes cost (on avg)? TIA!!!

 

[Nac]

Surely you guys have local needle exchanges? You pay for your first lot, but all subsequent are free when you do returns.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

no PIP? I am going in for my second round of pellets, my doctor's preferred method. I already am less than a fan of the method, but would need to find a new doctor and likely have to allow my test to tank again for new labs if I wanted to switch to pinning. But the < $3 per week seems like a steal compared to what I pay for the pellets. Plus I have never pinned. Seems like you just do it twice a week? I thought I saw EOD mentioned. You mentioned you travel, how is it travelling with the syringe/vials? Do you need to check your bags? How much per month do the syringes cost (on avg)? TIA!!!

My doctor thinks I travel - hedged my bet. 100 syringes (about a year) costs a whopping $25. I guess you can pin lesser amounts more often, but I saw twice a week for 100mg, so went with that. Apparently the half life of Cypionate is 5-8 days from what I'm seeing. How much are the pellets? Are you paying? Tell him you got fired and need the cheapest option - which is Cypionate.

 

[Sparkss]

Surely you guys have local needle exchanges? You pay for your first lot, but all subsequent are free when you do returns.

have not heard of that but then again have not had a need for needles outside of a dr's office before

 

[Nac]

Apparently the half life of Cypionate is 5-8 days from what I'm seeing.

Per the PK study I have its the same as enanthate, 4.5 days. Whats your source on 5-8?

 

[Sparkss]

My doctor thinks I travel - hedged my bet. 100 syringes (about a year) costs a whopping $25. I guess you can pin lesser amounts more often, but I saw twice a week for 100mg, so went with that. Apparently the half life of Cypionate is 5-8 days from what I'm seeing. How much are the pellets? Are you paying? Tell him you got fired and need the cheapest option - which is Cypionate.

The pellets are about $120 per month ($700 at implantation, they last right at 5 moths). No help from insurance, but I use my HSA, so at least it is tax free $$. The Test-C option is a lot cheaper. I am scheduled to go in next Wednesday. I may lay the ground work at that visit for other options, saying that is the last procedure that I can afford, and see where that goes. Then I have 5 months to find another doctor if this one doesn't want to entertain other options for me. I just honestly didn't realize that test-c was so much cheaper. When I looked on some of the "online pharmacy" sites they were about $100 per month for test-c + arimidex (sp?) (which I already know is not expensive). So an extra $20 per month to not have to worry about pinning or anything for up to 5 months seemed more than fair. Your cost makes me feel like I got ripped off LOL.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Per the PK study I have its the same as enanthate, 4.5 days. Whats your source on 5-8?

Don't remember, some website, yours sounds better.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

The pellets are about $120 per month ($700 at implantation, they last right at 5 moths). No help from insurance, but I use my HSA, so at least it is tax free $$. The Test-C option is a lot cheaper. I am scheduled to go in next Wednesday. I may lay the ground work at that visit for other options, saying that is the last procedure that I can afford, and see where that goes. Then I have 5 months to find another doctor if this one doesn't want to entertain other options for me. I just honestly didn't realize that test-c was so much cheaper. When I looked on some of the "online pharmacy" sites they were about $100 per month for test-c + arimidex (sp?) (which I already know is not expensive). So an extra $20 per month to not have to worry about pinning or anything for up to 5 months seemed more than fair. Your cost makes me feel like I got ripped off LOL.

GoodRx, Walgreen's, check it for your zip code. 10ml of 200mg/ml is even cheaper (when you take into account that you get more if you are at 100mg/Week).

 

[Nac]

Don't remember, some website, yours sounds better.

This pdf is a good resource, lots of data and graphs (no subq data though):

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/264848721_Pharmacology_of_testosterone_preparations

And for subq:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4721027/

In all instances Ive seen, there doesnt appear to be much difference between enanth and cyp esters.

 

[Admin]

Per the PK study I have its the same as enanthate, 4.5 days. Whats your source on 5-8?

Watson says 8 days.

 

[justhere4comm]

GoodRx, Walgreen's, check it for your zip code. 10ml of 200mg/ml is even cheaper (when you take into account that you get more if you are at 100mg/Week).

That's where I arrived at today. 200mg/ml 10ml vial and will be starting my Sub Q protocol 100mg/2 per week. GoodRx $41.50 I have a great doctor.

 

[Nac]

Watson says 8 days.

Interdasting. I know you tend to be careful with your sources.

Ive gone with what was stated in the studies linked above. Whats Watsons data

 

[Admin]

Interdasting. I know you tend to be careful with your sources.

Ive gone with what was stated in the studies linked above. Whats Watsons data

http://medlibrary.org/lib/rx/meds/testosterone-cypionate-5/

"The half-life of testosterone cypionate when injected intramuscularly is approximately eight days."

 

[Nac]

http://medlibrary.org/lib/rx/meds/testosterone-cypionate-5/

"The half-life of testosterone cypionate when injected intramuscularly is approximately eight days."

Well fuk me

Only prob with that is they dont appear to reference their source. Sure, you expect them to get it right of course, but the pdf in my link gives a quite different number.

 

[Admin]

Well fuk me

Only prob with that is they dont appear to reference their source. Sure, you expect them to get it right of course, but the pdf in my link gives a quite different number.

Their source is probably all the data they had to prove to the FDA to produce it.

There is always going to be variations based on the individual which is why I don't believe they even calculate these things with human data.

 

[Nac]

There is always going to be variations based on the individual which is why I don't believe they even calculate these things with human data.

The 4.5 day number is based on comparative measures using cyp and enanthate on......6, six, healthy males 20-29. In 1980.

Lol its only 6 individuals 40yrs ago but hey at least they human

 

[mike33511]

The 4.5 day number is based on comparative measures using cyp and enanthate on......6, six, healthy males 20-29. In 1980.

Lol its only 6 individuals 40yrs ago but hey at least they human

But n = 6. Sample size too small.

 

[Nac]

But n = 6. Sample size too small.

Lol I know its small but its the only data on male homosapienz Ive seen presented.

 

[Sparkss]

That's where I arrived at today. 200mg/ml 10ml vial and will be starting my Sub Q protocol 100mg/2 per week. GoodRx $41.50 I have a great doctor.

Yes, you do seem to have a great doctor. Makes me want to start shopping around LOL.

So that $41.50 is for 2.5 months worth? (10 weeks) That breaks down to $4.15 per week. Time for me to start researching doctors again *sigh*.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

That's where I arrived at today. 200mg/ml 10ml vial and will be starting my Sub Q protocol 100mg/2 per week. GoodRx $41.50 I have a great doctor.

Your DO/MD went straight to 200mg/Week? What did your blood work show as far as the various Sex Hormone levels? And when is your next blood draw - I'd like to hear what 200mg/Week puts you at (and your RBC and Hematocrit).

And did he Rx an Aromatase Inhibitor? Oh, and was he cool with SubQ? Cuz mine definitely wasn't, LOL.

 

[justhere4comm]

Your DO/MD went straight to 200mg/Week? What did your blood work show as far as the various Sex Hormone levels? And when is your next blood draw - I'd like to hear what 200mg/Week puts you at (and your RBC and Hematocrit).

And did he Rx an Aromatase Inhibitor? Oh, and was he cool with SubQ? Cuz mine definitely wasn't, LOL.

No sir. 200mg/ml 10ml vial. Draw was in the morning and I scored 200. You keep your mits off my sex hormones.

He never mentioned. May post bloods here. No AI but I told him about it. Lol.

I had to talk him into sub q. He got the feeling I was really not going to be doing anything else. He's really smart on a great many things. Great pharmacologist.

He mentioned several times about it being sports related. The protocol. Ha.

Well I'm on my own for three months. Then new bloods from him.