M-Sten cycle

[kma2402]

About to be starting a 4 week cycle of M-Sten in the next week or 2. Anyone have a good on cycle support they recommend?

Trying to use something new instead the same one I've used in the past. Suggestions are welcome. This is not my first time with prohormones but I have taken the past 2 years off from them to give my body a break

So far I have:

-M-Sten @ 20mg/day for 4 weeks
-PES erase pro
-clomid
-fish oil
-multi

 

[nosnmiveins]

dont waste your money on support supps...unless you just have cash you want to burn

 

[kma2402]

Why is that? I've always heard it's good to take fish oil and a couple other things to help with blood pressure etc.

 

[booneman77]

About to be starting a 4 week cycle of M-Sten in the next week or 2. Anyone have a good on cycle support they recommend?

Trying to use something new instead the same one I've used in the past. Suggestions are welcome. This is not my first time with prohormones but I have taken the past 2 years off from them to give my body a break

So far I have:

-M-Sten @ 20mg/day for 4 weeks
-PES erase pro
-clomid
-fish oil
-multi

CEL Cycle assist and Tudca are exactly what I just used for Msten+Dimathadrol.

Get some taurine as well for the back pumps that will come

i take fish oil all the time so i dont add that

 

[kma2402]

Good deal. I appreciate the feedback Booneman!

 

[Smont]

dont waste your money on support supps...unless you just have cash you want to burn

I kinda agree, i dont think there a total waste but its greatly exaggerated on how much you need them. Go spend 10 bucks on a bttl of nac and call it a day.

 

[kma2402]

What is nac? Not trying to sound dumb but I've been out of the game for a couple years. Been having to get new supps since a lot of what I used to take is no longer available

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I'd either go with cel cycle assist or olympus labs ar1macare pro; both should be with an additional 500-1000mg of tudca

 

[AnabolicGuru]

dont waste your money on support supps...unless you just have cash you want to burn

Take a cycle with support and one without support with bloodwork supporting your claims; otherwise quit advising against it bro

 

[Br1ck_Sh1thouse]

I'd either go with cel cycle assist or olympus labs ar1macare pro; both should be with an additional 500-1000mg of tudca

What he said ^^

 

[kma2402]

Thanks for all the feedback guys!

 

[2kvette]

Why is that? I've always heard it's good to take fish oil and a couple other things to help with blood pressure etc.

BP is such BS, unless you have a preexisting hypertension, the possible BP elevations are minor. Fish oil is good though, corrects lipid profile which is negatively effected by androgens. TUDCA is good too. I always run TUDCA, NAC, Fish oil year round. Never had a liver maker come back elevated. And I got years and years of cycles under the old belt.

 

[2kvette]

CEL Cycle assist and Tudca are exactly what I just used for Msten+Dimathadrol.

Get some taurine as well for the back pumps that will come

i take fish oil all the time so i dont add that

Dimethadrol is mithras right? just wondering, how was it with msten?

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Dimethadrol is mithras right? just wondering, how was it with msten?

Mithras and msten would probably make for some massive strength gains lmao. Msten alone blew my lifts out of the water

 

[2kvette]

Mithras and msten would probably make for some massive strength gains lmao. Msten alone blew my lifts out of the water

But dinethadrol is mithras right?

 

[AnabolicGuru]

But dinethadrol is mithras right?

Yup; the compound name is dimethandrostenol

 

[nosnmiveins]

Take a cycle with support and one without support with bloodwork supporting your claims; otherwise quit advising against it bro

ive run about 10 cycles with orals, been off everything for 6 months. bloods just came back 2 weeks ago and everything is perfectly fine.

so now what?

 

[simplestacked]

I'm
Running Msten right now in week 2 of 4 and I highly suggest u get taurine for the back pumps highly, Anything with nac in it will suffice for liver protection

 

[nosnmiveins]

Take a cycle with support and one without support with bloodwork supporting your claims; otherwise quit advising against it bro

Just to make my point a little more clear. I am a fan of running certain supps on cycle.....just NOT those all-in-one cycle supports that cost an arm and a leg. Or the OTC PCT garbage that does nothing for recovery.

"Hey buy our ph but dont forget to grab our STRONG all inclusive PCT... oh yeah and our cycle support so your guts dont turn into goo"

You need tudca/nac, fish oil, multivitamin (this one not even really needed) and then nolva or clomid for PCT. Simple, effective and cheap.

Its just one more way companies push their products to make the most amount of money as possible. you would cry if you found out what their cost was compared to what its sold for. ESPECIALLY anything that comes in caps....the markuo is beyond retarded. i worked for a supp company for 2 years

 

[kma2402]

I agree.

Here's my cycle.

4 Weeks

M-Sten: 20mg/day

Cycle assist

NAC

Tudca

PES erase pro

Clomid

Fish oil

Multi

What do you guys think about starting the Erase Pro at the 3rd week? So I can run it during PCT with clomid. Trying to get my Test back up as quick as possible

 

[booneman77]

BP is such BS, unless you have a preexisting hypertension, the possible BP elevations are minor. Fish oil is good though, corrects lipid profile which is negatively effected by androgens. TUDCA is good too. I always run TUDCA, NAC, Fish oil year round. Never had a liver maker come back elevated. And I got years and years of cycles under the old belt.

100% disagree with this. I've personally seen exceptional increases in bp on cycle and have had to take pharma meds to settle it and I have borderline too low bp normally.

 

[booneman77]

Dimethadrol is mithras right? just wondering, how was it with msten?

Yes, and it was awesome. Strength was amazing, stayed lean and hard, and was full as all hell all day. Very close second to IM Trest and epistane for me (my favorite cycle)

 

[booneman77]

I agree.

Here's my cycle.

4 Weeks

M-Sten: 20mg/day

Cycle assist

NAC

Tudca

PES erase pro

Clomid

Fish oil

Multi

What do you guys think about starting the Erase Pro at the 3rd week? So I can run it during PCT with clomid. Trying to get my Test back up as quick as possible

Don't waste your erase on cycle. It won't do anything.

 

[kma2402]

Booneman your clutch. I appreciate the feedback!

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Just to make my point a little more clear. I am a fan of running certain supps on cycle.....just NOT those all-in-one cycle supports that cost an arm and a leg. Or the OTC PCT garbage that does nothing for recovery.

"Hey buy our ph but dont forget to grab our STRONG all inclusive PCT... oh yeah and our cycle support so your guts dont turn into goo"

You need tudca/nac, fish oil, multivitamin (this one not even really needed) and then nolva or clomid for PCT. Simple, effective and cheap.

Its just one more way companies push their products to make the most amount of money as possible. you would cry if you found out what their cost was compared to what its sold for. ESPECIALLY anything that comes in caps....the markuo is beyond retarded. i worked for a supp company for 2 years

Ahh I gotcha; I agree with that. I was under the understanding that you were saying to take nothing while on cycle.

 

[booneman77]

Ahh I gotcha; I agree with that. I was under the understanding that you were saying to take nothing while on cycle.

Ha that's how I read it as well.

It's def true that there is severe markup on most things but if I can get an all encompassing support for under $20 I say it's worth it. Almost everything in them (especially the better brands) has benefits on and even off cycle

 

[2kvette]

100% disagree with this. I've personally seen exceptional increases in bp on cycle and have had to take pharma meds to settle it and I have borderline too low bp normally.

Like what? How much we talking here? Most I've ever seen is somewhere in the range of 5-10mmHg. So if we start off assuming a normalish BP of 120/80, and go up to 130 or even 135, that still puts you bellow 140, which is where they start treating. What was ur pre BP and in cycle BP?

My point is this, BP elevations for a few weeks is not something to be concerned about. Long term BP elevations is; long term high systole=LVH.

 

[mike33511]

Like what? How much we talking here? Most I've ever seen is somewhere in the range of 5-10mmHg. So if we start off assuming a normalish BP of 120/80, and go up to 130 or even 135, that still puts you bellow 140, which is where they start treating. What was ur pre BP and in cycle BP?

My point is this, BP elevations for a few weeks is not something to be concerned about. Long term BP elevations is; long term high systole=LVH.

Methylated orals jack up my BP like crazy. I took nothing for it (except hawthorne berry) my first cycle and the highest I measured was around 165/95. Needless to say, I felt terrible. The last time I had my BP measured off cycle, it was 118/62.

I'm taking Tadalafil and an ACE inhibitor on my current cycle, and my BP has been fine. Higher than normal, but nothing like it was.

 

[rtmilburn]

Methylated orals jack up my BP like crazy. I took nothing for it (except hawthorne berry) my first cycle and the highest I measured was around 165/95. Needless to say, I felt terrible. The last time I had my BP measured off cycle, it was 118/62.

I'm taking Tadalafil and an ACE inhibitor on my current cycle, and my BP has been fine. Higher than normal, but nothing like it was.

Wow with a PED5 inhibitor and and ACE inhibitor your BP is still higher??? I would be passing out from to low BP left and right with that combo

 

[mike33511]

Wow with a PED5 inhibitor and and ACE inhibitor your BP is still higher??? I would be passing out from to low BP left and right with that combo

Higher than 118/62, but still in the normal range.

 

[booneman77]

Like what? How much we talking here? Most I've ever seen is somewhere in the range of 5-10mmHg. So if we start off assuming a normalish BP of 120/80, and go up to 130 or even 135, that still puts you bellow 140, which is where they start treating. What was ur pre BP and in cycle BP?

My point is this, BP elevations for a few weeks is not something to be concerned about. Long term BP elevations is; long term high systole=LVH.

Im talking normal for me around 100-110/70-80 max vs 145+ at one point... Thats a SEVERE increase.

Even acute levels, for even hours, that high become insanely dangerous

 

[rtmilburn]

Im talking normal for me around 100-110/70-80 max vs 145+ at one point... Thats a SEVERE increase.

Even acute levels, for even hours, that high become insanely dangerous

Wouldn't say acute 145ish is dangerous now 165+ sure but I've had spouts of (handful of days at most ) where i was 180s and one of 209/111(scared the hell out of me felt like I was dying) I was completely natural, no supplements, not taking stimulants, was well hydrated, working and running daily when that happened and the doctor was at awww. Still haven't figure it out I run normal in high 130s/90s but also have spouts of way to low (90s/40s) and I've had every test in the book and all are normal and my ECG results the doctor said LITERALLY COULDN'T BE BETTER.

 

[2kvette]

Im talking normal for me around 100-110/70-80 max vs 145+ at one point... Thats a SEVERE increase.

Even acute levels, for even hours, that high become insanely dangerous

Lol, no. Going from 100-110 to 145 is a drastic increase, I would agree, but I wouldn't call it dangerous unless it's been that way for years. A few hours of elevated BP at 140 something I don't bat an eye at. I'll give you an example, practice guidelines for a patient with type 2 diabetes and hypertension both, only require systole to be 140 or less. So even with the added risk factor of diabetes, a systolic of 140 or less for the rest of their lives is considered acceptable and a negligible risk. For patients on adderall we expect pretty wild increases in blood pressure in the 3-6 hour window after they take a dose, even up to the 140-145 range; but this too is considered acceptable risk. Now 165, we're easily into stage 2 hypertension territory, that worries me. I personally would start worrying until I get past 140 sustained, and seriously start worrying past 145 sustained.

 

[booneman77]

Wouldn't say acute 145ish is dangerous now 165+ sure but I've had spouts of (handful of days at most ) where i was 180s and one of 209/111(scared the hell out of me felt like I was dying) I was completely natural, no supplements, not taking stimulants, was well hydrated, working and running daily when that happened and the doctor was at awww. Still haven't figure it out I run normal in high 130s/90s but also have spouts of way to low (90s/40s) and I've had every test in the book and all are normal and my ECG results the doctor said LITERALLY COULDN'T BE BETTER.

it makes a difference tho what "normal" is for that person... someone like me who normall runs so low, 145+ IS dangerous becuase your body isnt used to that. Same as it would be for you running normal in the 130s and shooting up to 200... its still a major change and we all know the body does not like things like that

 

[booneman77]

Lol, no. Going from 100-110 to 145 is a drastic increase, I would agree, but I wouldn't call it dangerous unless it's been that way for years. A few hours of elevated BP at 140 something I don't bat an eye at. I'll give you an example, practice guidelines for a patient with type 2 diabetes and hypertension both, only require systole to be 140 or less. So even with the added risk factor of diabetes, a systolic of 140 or less for the rest of their lives is considered acceptable and a negligible risk. For patients on adderall we expect pretty wild increases in blood pressure in the 3-6 hour window after they take a dose, even up to the 140-145 range; but this too is considered acceptable risk. Now 165, we're easily into stage 2 hypertension territory, that worries me. I personally would start worrying until I get past 140 sustained, and seriously start worrying past 145 sustained.

right, but when the walgreens meter reads 145 and that 30+ point higher than normal and youve been ahving severe headaches, its time to say something is wrong. The point was that these things can and often do cause drastic increases and thus require something to keep them in check.

 

[2kvette]

right, but when the walgreens meter reads 145 and that 30+ point higher than normal and youve been ahving severe headaches, its time to say something is wrong. The point was that these things can and often do cause drastic increases and thus require something to keep them in check.

Did you sit for 5 minutes without talking or moving before taking the bp? But no, arterial compliance is pretty much the same for everyone regardless of your personaly normal physiological bp, consequently LVH roughly occurs at the same bp and all that crap. But I rarely see any BP increase at all for androgens, and what I do see is very very minor. Not saying that there aren't outliers who dont get a crazy spike of 30mmHg like you did, but i never see anything that isnt minor.

 

[booneman77]

Did you sit for 5 minutes without talking or moving before taking the bp? But no, arterial compliance is pretty much the same for everyone regardless of your personaly normal physiological bp, consequently LVH roughly occurs at the same bp and all that crap. But I rarely see any BP increase at all for androgens, and what I do see is very very minor. Not saying that there aren't outliers who dont get a crazy spike of 30mmHg like you did, but i never see anything that isnt minor.

not sure where it is that you're "rarely seeing" other people's BP, but based on how often I hear guys talking about crazy spikes on cycle, I'd have to say that yes, it is a common occurrence rather than an "outlier"...

 

[2kvette]

not sure where it is that you're "rarely seeing" other people's BP, but based on how often I hear guys talking about crazy spikes on cycle, I'd have to say that yes, it is a common occurrence rather than an "outlier"...

At the hospital, and clinic is where I see it.

 

[2kvette]

not sure where it is that you're "rarely seeing" other people's BP, but based on how often I hear guys talking about crazy spikes on cycle, I'd have to say that yes, it is a common occurrence rather than an "outlier"...

Oooooo! And btw, I just remembered how some androgens affect BP. Aldosterone receptor agonization!!! And 2-methyls we're pretty good at it too, anadrol(2-formyl derived), msten, superdrol, all were on the list as agonists for the receptor.

 

[booneman77]

At the hospital, and clinic is where I see it.

Figured you were either a medical professional or full of bs ha.

How often do people actually reveal that they're taking something tho? Even if results show bad, I'd think many would keep that secret (as ill advised as that is)

 

[2kvette]

Figured you were either a medical professional or full of bs ha.

How often do people actually reveal that they're taking something tho? Even if results show bad, I'd think many would keep that secret (as ill advised as that is)

they usually dont have to. its prescribed, i see test all the time, anadrol once, anavar a few times, and winstrol once. testosterone I rarely see bp increases if dose is 200mg/wk or less. var no bp increase, winstrol saw it actually decrease a little, anadrol made it rise though.

 

[booneman77]

they usually dont have to. its prescribed, i see test all the time, anadrol once, anavar a few times, and winstrol once. testosterone I rarely see bp increases if dose is 200mg/wk or less. var no bp increase, winstrol saw it actually decrease a little, anadrol made it rise though.

ah, yes that's why you wouldn't see it as much... these methylated ph's are a whole diff animal vs IM test at trt doses

 

[2kvette]

ah, yes that's why you wouldn't see it as much... these methylated ph's are a whole diff animal vs IM test at trt doses

Yea that's another thing; these PH's aren't studied the same. Plus doses used are pretty wild; in excess of what's needed I think. But I'm a firm believer that here is no benefit beyond 400mg/wk of test. Also, I'll throw this little odd nugget out. I once saw test prescribed at 50 ever 4 weeks. I was like wtf? What's the point?

 

[booneman77]

Yea that's another thing; these PH's aren't studied the same. Plus doses used are pretty wild; in excess of what's needed I think. But I'm a firm believer that here is no benefit beyond 400mg/wk of test. Also, I'll throw this little odd nugget out. I once saw test prescribed at 50 ever 4 weeks. I was like wtf? What's the point?

yeah i see guys starting threads about things like that dose all the time... I swear there are really only a few endo's that seem to really have a handle on modern trt

 

[2kvette]

yeah i see guys starting threads about things like that dose all the time... I swear there are really only a few endo's that seem to really have a handle on modern trt

Yea! I was like why even bother at 50mg every 4 weeks? 50mg per week would boost you into low end physiological range for like 3-4 days at most. I was gonna call the prescriber and be like why are you doing this cuz the reason wasn't in the chart. But my preceptor wouldn't let me?

 

[DUbz86]

100% disagree with this. I've personally seen exceptional increases in bp on cycle and have had to take pharma meds to settle it and I have borderline too low bp normally.

I agree hawthorn berry alone does wonders for my BP on cycle

 

[rtmilburn]

Yea! I was like why even bother at 50mg every 4 weeks? 50mg per week would boost you into low end physiological range for like 3-4 days at most. I was gonna call the prescriber and be like why are you doing this cuz the reason wasn't in the chart. But my preceptor wouldn't let me?

Was it female patient as that seems to be the typical protocol for women

 

[booneman77]

Yea! I was like why even bother at 50mg every 4 weeks? 50mg per week would boost you into low end physiological range for like 3-4 days at most. I was gonna call the prescriber and be like why are you doing this cuz the reason wasn't in the chart. But my preceptor wouldn't let me?

Haha that's because you're a kid.

 

[dvw]

My blood pressure does Spike substantially on M sten

 

[2kvette]

Haha that's because you're a kid.

But I'm 25...