Step above Prohormones?

[Brandon25]

I'm about to complete by 2nd cycle. My original cycle was 8 weeks 1/4 andro with clomid for pct. After the required time off i started running 1/4 andro along with epi andro while eating in a deficit to help get ready for summer. My question is. What's next for me. Not looking to start pinning, but what's the next step up as far as results would be concerned. Looking for an example of a cutting cycle and a bulking cycle. Thanks for the help! Also, i always use clomid for pct and keep exemestane on hand just in case.

 

[fdigioia99]

Why no pinning bro? Safer then poping all those prohormones. How old are you?

 

[rkmich]

fdigioia99...was thinking to start my first PH cycle ever (47 yr old) probably epiandro + 1andro (or Sup3r DHEA transdermal), but you say pinning safer. You have got my attention. Why do you say that? Appreciate any advice you could offer for a total noob. Thanks

 

[fdigioia99]

It's just my personal opinion but test injections are more natural and less harmful on the liver. Also go see your doctor have your test levels run. You may be a candidate for TRT. I went when I turned 40 my doc prescribed it for me.

 

[rkmich]

Thanks, I was actually thinking about doing that...so do you pin or use patch or cream?

 

[fdigioia99]

Pin brother.

 

[csline]

You could look into the world of SARMS. They show promise for steroid/PH like effects with moderate, little or even no negative sides (prostate, blood pressure, hair loss, acne, liver stress, etc.) Most notable side is natural test suppression.

But there's Ostarine for lean type gains, RAD140 for lean gains, YK-11 for mass, LGD for mass. Those are the more popular ones. Check out Dr. Tony Huge from Enhanced Athlete. He's got videos on videos on explaining them. It's a good start IMO

 

[csline]

What dosage of 1/4/epi did you run. How was ot

 

[csline]

What dosage of 1/4/epi did you run. How was ot

Never mind lol read you forum explaining it.

Any sides from the Epi?

 

[heavylifter33]

Why no pinning bro? Safer then poping all those prohormones. How old are you?

And you base that on what science?

 

[fdigioia99]

And you base that on what science?

If you read the my other post you would see that I said it was my opinion. Mr scientist. Lmao

 

[Th3k1d]

And you base that on what science?

Injections (done properly and sterile) are FAR less taxing on the body than any oral product. Granted, the Andro series is light on the liver, but any other oral compound (for the most part) will do far more damage to your health than some (most) injectables. Test, mast, and the like may even be easier on your body than Andros.

 

[Th3k1d]

But, to respond to the OP...

I 100% agree with the SARMs idea.

I'm on TRT, and have ran a cycle of 1 Andro, 4 Andro, epiandro, and 11-kt once, and currently am running 1 Andro, Epi Andro, DMZ and t3.

But I have ran SARMs many times. They're solid gains, usually better than you can achieve with Andros, relatively mild, and way less side effects. LGD is hands down my favorite, as it's incredibly versatile, amazing for recomps.

If you want to run hormones however and want to avoid pinning, DMZ is still legal in the US. If legality isn't a worry, epistane is still readily available online to get shipped here.

 

[Brandon25]

Thanks for the input guys! I just can't bring myself to pin yet ha. I'm 25. 5'11. Currently weigh 187 at around 12-13 percent bf. In the middle of a 1/4/epi cycle now. Little to no sides. May try sarms or something shortly down the road. I'm not educated on that yet but definitely want something a step up from Andro with little risk of sides.

 

[csline]

And you base that on what science?

Well there have been massive amounts of studies on steroids. They're approved by the FDA and made in laboratories and prescribed to patients (well minus trenbolone). Pro hormones have practically zero scientific studies when compared to steroids, but some do exist. At least with steroids, which of course carry the possibility of many many side effects, those effects are well documented in scientific literature and it's understood how they work and how to mitigate risk. PH's just simply lack the maturity to be as understood and when people figured out that you could make compounds that the body changes into steroid, boom, PH's were selling on the shelves within months. No research, no medical use, no FDA approval.

And above all else, pinning avoids the gastrointestinal tract and thus avoids the liver.

 

[csline]

Well there have been massive amounts of studies on steroids. They're approved by the FDA and made in laboratories and prescribed to patients (well minus trenbolone). Pro hormones have practically zero scientific studies when compared to steroids, but some do exist. At least with steroids, which of course carry the possibility of many many side effects, those effects are well documented in scientific literature and it's understood how they work and how to mitigate risk. PH's just simply lack the maturity to be as understood and when people figured out that you could make compounds that the body changes into steroid, boom, PH's were selling on the shelves within months. No research, no medical use, no FDA approval.

And above all else, pinning avoids the gastrointestinal tract and thus avoids the liver.

Well in all honesty there are LOTS of steroid made by people in their kitchens and not in labs lol, but hypothetically speaking the real FDA approved steroids do exist

 

[ericos_bob]

How about a TD trest cycle? From everything I've read it's a step up from andro's. Toxicity should not be an issue with trest. Run it solo or alongside a mild methyl if toxicity is a concern. I'm in the same boat with injectables. I'd probably **** up pinning test and pump myself full of air or end up with an infection. Read plenty on test flu, debilitiating IM pain etc. I don't have access to prescription test anyway so it's all underground stuff which I trust less than buying PH's from a reputable vendor. There's more precautions to be taken which leaves more room for error.

 

[fdigioia99]

And you base that on what science?

Lol quests they told you! Lol! Should learn to be polite when you jump in a conversation you know nothing about.

 

[mike33511]

How about a TD trest cycle? From everything I've read it's a step up from andro's. Toxicity should not be an issue with trest. Run it solo or alongside a mild methyl if toxicity is a concern. I'm in the same boat with injectables. I'd probably **** up pinning test and pump myself full of air or end up with an infection. Read plenty on test flu, debilitiating IM pain etc. I don't have access to prescription test anyway so it's all underground stuff which I trust less than buying PH's from a reputable vendor. There's more precautions to be taken which leaves more room for error.

You're reading about all the worst-case scenarios. Pinning is a breeze. Alternate left and right ventroglute to start. You should have minimal PIP if the gear is good.

 

[Brandon25]

After reading a little bit I'm leaning towards possibly looking into SARMs for my next run. Haven't read up much but what would an example run look like for bulking and one for cutting as well.

 

[Brandon25]

Heck idk maybe I wanna try the whole AAS route. Just not to sure about the whole pinning thing.

 

[Woody]

Transdermals.

 

[Th3k1d]

If you want to add size or recomp, lgd. Ostarine to cut.

 

[210LBS]

I've said it several times - the logs I've seen on today's andros don't really impress me that much given the potential side effects. SARMS still scare me because of how new they are. And real gear is a no go for me because I also don't want to inject. So, now I've been looking at the old school PHs (which are basically oral steroids), which I'm seeing better results with from old logs. I'm still toying with the idea of 19norDHEA as possible first run though.

 

[mike33511]

I've said it several times - the logs I've seen on today's andros don't really impress me that much given the potential side effects. SARMS still scare me because of how new they are. And real gear is a no go for me because I also don't want to inject. So, now I've been looking at the old school PHs (which are basically oral steroids), which I'm seeing better results with from old logs. I'm still toying with the idea of 19norDHEA as possible first run though.

Skip anything DHEA.

Run Halodrol 50/50/75/75/100/100.

Fairly mild, yet very effective first cycle. Sides should be minimal. Just keep an eye on your BP, but this would be the case with any methyl.

 

[210LBS]

Skip anything DHEA.

Run Halodrol 50/50/75/75/100/100.

Fairly mild, yet very effective first cycle. Sides should be minimal. Just keep an eye on your BP, but this would be the case with any methyl.

I already bought a BP monitor thinking I would use it when I decide to run a cycle. Also, I see epicatechin is good for BP. Even though I've never used epicatechin it seems like it could serve a purpose on cycle. But yes, h-drol and Pmag are the 2 I've been looking at right now.

 

[ericos_bob]

It's just that there are plenty of orals I can take before I go with pinning test which are still relatively safe. You're right they are worst case scenarios with pinning test. If you're doing 500mg/EW test E you also have potential for sides.

Halo is what I'm planning on running alongside DT. On average it seems many have seen a lean 15lbs on halo as a first cycle. Nothing too serious to dig up in the way of sides from halodrol logs but it seems lethargy and dry joints have been a problem for some which is why I think trest would make a perfect stack and should further add to the gains . I have thought about SARM's but really they're not any safer than mild methyls when you look at some of the post cycle bloods. Liver values, cholesterol, suppression is just as bad at BBing doses and you're short changed of gains unless you happen to be a great responder.

 

[shockrock3]

Take the PH's...better than pinning. Too many variables in pinning...was the product made in a sterile environment i.e. not contaminated...making sure the injection area is clean/sterile, PIP (post injection pain), blowing throw nerves, abscess, etc. etc. Did the whole pinning thing for ~13 yrs. becomes quite annoying after awhile.

Take a good liver support like TUDCA and follow proper protocol i.e. PCT/cycle length and you're good to go. Love PH's and designer steroids a million times better.

 

[mike33511]

It's just that there are plenty of orals I can take before I go with pinning test which are still relatively safe. You're right they are worst case scenarios with pinning test. If you're doing 500mg/EW test E you also have potential for sides.

Halo is what I'm planning on running alongside DT. On average it seems many have seen a lean 15lbs on halo as a first cycle. Nothing too serious to dig up in the way of sides from halodrol logs but it seems lethargy and dry joints have been a problem for some which is why I think trest would make a perfect stack and should further add to the gains . I have thought about SARM's but really they're not any safer than mild methyls when you look at some of the post cycle bloods. Liver values, cholesterol, suppression is just as bad at BBing doses and you're short changed of gains unless you happen to be a great responder.

I agree. In general, SARMs are a waste of time.

 

[BennyMagoo79]

After reading a little bit I'm leaning towards possibly looking into SARMs for my next run. Haven't read up much but what would an example run look like for bulking and one for cutting as well.

LGD for 12 weeks at something like 5/5/10/10/10/10/12.5×6 for bulk and maybe osta at 25 for 6 weeks (never tried the osta but LGD is pretty effective (

Oh and full PCT after both (i ran clom at 30/30/15/15 with nolva at 2p/20/10/10 after my LGD run.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

The next step would either be a long ester test cycle or a methylated oral; test would be the safer option

 

[fueledpassion]

When you step out of the presumptuous social morality that our society places on us in regards to PED's, and you step into the world of actual facts and the lesser known benefits of pinning to get your "edge", you'll find that options expand greatly and the risk of "taking two steps forward and one to two steps back again" greatly diminishes.

Basically, your bodybuilding efforts will stop looking like the futures and emerging stock markets and more like a steady, but modest return-on-effort over time.

That being said, if you decided to pin, my first recommendation would be to start with peptides, particularly GHRP and CJC or Mod. Those few taken in liberal doses can do some serious work and are really introductory in terms of IM invasiveness.