Gyno prone, new bulking cycle

[MJW]

I finished pct from a 6 week halodrol and 12 week test cycle. Did test e at 500mg and halo at 50 or 75mg (whatever the recommended was). Halodrol wasn't suppose to convert to estrogen, but after my cycle I started feeling lumps. Took exemestane and it helped a little bit it isn't completely gone. My pct was nolva/Clomid and exemestane. Also took arimicare as a cycle support...

Anyways, I'm looking for a new lean bulking cycle that Won't give me too many issues with estrogen sides.

I'm thinking either
anavar/deca/test
Or
Winstrol/deca/test
Maybe even consider throwing in some halodrol into the mix because I have a bottle left. Let me know what you think. I think next time I'm gonna use arimidex instead of exemestane.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Testosterone aromatizes into estrogen bro...The gyno is most likely from the test. Running deca with test will only make issues worse

 

[MJW]

Testosterone aromatizes into estrogen bro...The gyno is most likely from the test. Running deca with test will only make issues worse

Well yeah of course test does. But deca doesn't convert to estrogen as much as test does. So I figure that I would dose my ai better and I would be gtg. I really don't get why I'm prone to all these estrogen sides... I mean I'm only 7% bf.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Well yeah of course test does. But deca doesn't convert to estrogen as much as test does. So I figure that I would dose my ai better and I would be gtg. I really don't get why I'm prone to all these estrogen sides... I mean I'm only 7% bf.

I'd have some caber or prami with the deca too; and as far as i know, being gyno prone is just a person dependent thing

 

[Nac]

You can always run your test lower than deca. This will reduce potential excessive aromatization, and with a suitable AI dose all but eliminate any possible prolactin issues with deca.

 

[MJW]

Sucks because I got some dbol that I wanted to try and that's definitely not an option now lol.

 

[MJW]

I'd have some caber or prami with the deca too; and as far as i know, being gyno prone is just a person dependent thing

Would caber be necessary while using an ai?

 

[Nac]

Would caber be necessary while using an ai?

Using it shouldnt be necessary if controlling your e2, but have it available if needed. Your risk factor increases as your test dose increases.

 

[kcstreetracer]

Yeah most the time prolactin issues arise from elevated e2. Keep estrogen in check and prolactin shouldn't be a issue. But have the caber on hand just in case.

 

[MJW]

Yeah most the time prolactin issues arise from elevated e2. Keep estrogen in check and prolactin shouldn't be a issue. But have the caber on hand just in case.

Maybe I needed caber on my last cycle...

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Maybe I needed caber on my last cycle...

You needed an aromatize inhibitor

 

[MJW]

You needed an aromatize inhibitor

Had exemestane

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Had exemestane

Hmmmm, i dunno then

 

[MJW]

For a dry cycle would like winny/halodrol/deca/test be good? Or maybe var instead of winny if I can get a hold of it?

 

[MJW]

Exemestane is doing absolutely nothing. Nips still sore with a small lump. Wtf do I do? Maybe run the exemestane with some nolva???

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Exemestane is doing absolutely nothing. Nips still sore with a small lump. Wtf do I do? Maybe run the exemestane with some nolva???

Yea either run nolva or raloxifene with the exemestane

 

[MJW]

How much nolva you think? And how long?

 

[MJW]

Yea either run nolva or raloxifene with the exemestane

???

 

[Distilled Water]

You have no idea what's raising estrogen. Could be prolactin based. Spend 50, get estro checked and plan of attack that way

 

[ChocolateClen]

Ralox ****ing works wonders holy ****

 

[AnabolicGuru]

You have no idea what's raising estrogen. Could be prolactin based. Spend 50, get estro checked and plan of attack that way

Yea definitely do this before you take any more drugs; i forgot to mention it

 

[AnabolicGuru]

How much nolva you think? And how long?

Probably 40mg then taper down to 20; Raloxifene would probably be the better alternative though

 

[shanedoolie1]

I've heard plenty of guys say that the ph epi will get rid of lingering gyno. Not saying run that now, but it's something to possibly check into for your next cycle. ?

Edit to include*
Epi is also known to cause rebound gyno quiet often tho once stopped. People just run a suicide inhibitor a little longer and don't have any rebound.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I've heard plenty of guys say that the ph epi will get rid of lingering gyno. Not saying run that now, but it's something to possibly check into for your next cycle. ?

Epistane has some antiestrogenic effects, but being a designer steroid, even it can cause gyno to occur

 

[MJW]

You have no idea what's raising estrogen. Could be prolactin based. Spend 50, get estro checked and plan of attack that way

Gonna go get bloods again. Only thing I'm doing that could possibly raise estrogen lately is drink alcohol.

 

[shanedoolie1]

Epistane has some antiestrogenic effects, but being a designer steroid, even it can cause gyno to occur

Ha, yea remember back when some bs companies thought it would be a good idea to put low dose epistane in their "PCT" Test booster products!?

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Ha, yea remember back when some bs companies thought it would be a good idea to put low dose epistane in their "PCT" Test booster products!?

Damn that's dumb lmfao; reminds me of people adding ostarine to their pct nowadays

 

[shanedoolie1]

Damn that's dumb lmfao; reminds me of people adding ostarine to their pct nowadays

Lol right! Lmao, look at this ****..
~Copy&Pasted~

Arimestage PCT 50v.2, like version 1, adds 50mgs of Epiandrosterone per cap to replace the 5mgs of epistane that made this Arimestage 5 one of the most infamous products on the market.*

"Most INFAMOUS" Ha!! Yea...not in a good way ****tards

 

[Montego1]

There is so much bs slung in this thread it's ridiculous.

Your original problem sounds like estrogen rebound. Halo doesn't convert to estrogen but it can cause gyno symptoms through a different pathway but again, I bet this wasn't the cause.

How much Aromasin were you using?

No cycle will give you "estrogen sides" if you properly plan your AI and have bloodwork done consistently. I recommend 3-4 times during your first couple cycles just to know how you will react.

99% of guys who use dopamine antagonist like caber and prami DO NOT NEED THEM. Again, elevated estrogen will increase prolactin as a response.

Deca surely has plenty of potential to aromitase on its own. Low test on any cycle is dumb. If you run low test to "avoid sides" you need more bloodwork so you can properly adjust your ai to avoid sides.

 

[Nac]

Low test on any cycle is dumb.

Care to explain why that isnt a retarded generalisation? Ive seen plenty of cycles that use trt doses of test to great effect.

If you run low test to "avoid sides" you need more bloodwork so you can properly adjust your ai to avoid sides.

Lol are you new to AAS forums? 99% of these guys dont even get pre/post bloods done, and youre saying they should get potentially multiple bloods done on cycle.

Running "high" doses of test is not always gonna be productive. Sometimes you can let the other compounds (tren, or deca, or trest, etc) do the work and let the test keep you feeling normal. Means you wont need to be so concerned with e2/AI.

 

[MJW]

Care to explain why that isnt a retarded generalisation? Ive seen plenty of cycles that use trt doses of test to great effect.



Lol are you new to AAS forums? 99% of these guys dont even get pre/post bloods done, and youre saying they should get potentially multiple bloods done on cycle.

Running "high" doses of test is not always gonna be productive. Sometimes you can let the other compounds (tren, or deca, or trest, etc) do the work and let the test keep you feeling normal. Means you wont need to be so concerned with e2/AI.

Pretty sure he meant that gyno shouldn't be the reason behind running test at a lower dose. Obviously for some cycles it may be better, but if proper precautions are taken, then you should be able to run test at higher doses.

 

[Nac]

Pretty sure he meant that gyno shouldn't be the reason behind running test at a lower dose.

He made an absolute claim:

"Low test on any cycle is dumb"

Any cycle. Not just cos of "gyno". Without further explanation, his comment sounds like meathead "moar test for the gainz brah!!"

Obviously for some cycles it may be better, but if proper precautions are taken, then you should be able to run test at higher doses.

To be clear, I am NOT advocating low test (trt doses) across the board. Im just against the idea that test must be run at doses higher than trt.

 

[Distilled Water]

He made an absolute claim:

"Low test on any cycle is dumb"

Any cycle. Not just cos of "gyno". Without further explanation, his comment sounds like meathead "moar test for the gainz brah!!"



To be clear, I am NOT advocating low test (trt doses) across the board. Im just against the idea that test must be run at doses higher than trt.

If you want to gain size....yes low test is dumb, running anything other than test for sheer size is dumb. Maybe EQ. Maybe low dose tren ace.

If you're prone to high estro, deca is worthless as sides will go bonkers regardless of ancillary products.

People use a myriad of compounds to replace a good diet, training and cardio. Seen the best results on test and gh.

 

[Nac]

If you want to gain size....yes low test is dumb, running anything other than test for sheer size is dumb. Maybe EQ. Maybe low dose tren ace.

Ive seen guys run trt doses of test (100-200mg pw) with deca (600mg+ pw) and get great gains. And no sides.

Ive seen guys run trt doses as low as 100mg pw with tren and get great gains. And they didnt need to drop the tren due to sides.

Etc etc

How is any of this dumb?

 

[Distilled Water]

Ive seen guys run trt doses of test (100-200mg pw) with deca (600mg+ pw) and get great gains. And no sides.

Ive seen guys run trt doses as low as 100mg pw with tren and get great gains. And they didnt need to drop the tren due to sides.

Etc etc

How is any of this dumb?

That weren't 170lbs? Doubt it.

Test is anabolic it's what is more prone to muscle mass. Tren is an androgen, size isn't put on by tren it self. Deca was designed to strengthen bones....

Not saying you can't do it, but it's not optimal or even the norm. Why trash your body internally if you don't need to? How did they look after they were off the compounds?

 

[Nac]

The point is they didnt *have* to use high doses of test. You can try and diminish this fact with "bet they only 170lb" and "wat did they look like after they were off", but its irrelevant.

They didnt need to run high doses of test with the other compounds to see gains they were happy with. Thats it. Simple.

 

[Distilled Water]

The point is they didnt *have* to use high doses of test. You can try and diminish this fact with "bet they only 170lb" and "wat did they look like after they were off", but its irrelevant.

They didnt need to run high doses of test with the other compounds to see gains they were happy with. Thats it. Simple.

It's 100% relevant. If they didn't keep their look, they didn't get their desired affect. I can run 750mg/wk of test for 16 weeks and gain 30lbs. When I get off or drop to 200mg TRT I'll be slightly less full but I'll "look" the same. I may lose a few lbs due to decreased glycogen retention.

When trens done, you lose the hardness and vascularity and strength. When deca is over you'll lose ALL your fullness and both tren and deca will destroy your insides. High test, BP may become slightly elevated. Won't kill your lipids, won't touch liver values, won't jack up your estro.

 

[Nac]

Waaaait a sec bro...when youre talking here about running "high test", you mean test by itself right?

Lol I can agree with that.

The disagreement Im having with the other guy is regarding high test when in combination with other AAS.

I know youve run test as low as 350mg with other compounds. I wouldnt call 350mg "high".

 

[Montego1]

Care to explain why that isnt a retarded generalisation? Ive seen plenty of cycles that use trt doses of test to great effect.



Lol are you new to AAS forums? 99% of these guys dont even get pre/post bloods done, and youre saying they should get potentially multiple bloods done on cycle.

Running "high" doses of test is not always gonna be productive. Sometimes you can let the other compounds (tren, or deca, or trest, etc) do the work and let the test keep you feeling normal. Means you wont need to be so concerned with e2/AI.

Unless you're going into a show then yes it's dumb.

The whole goal of this adventure is to build muscle. Nothing does that better then test. Nandralone is a close second but test is king.

So because someone is lazy or cheap, that means that you shouldn't get multiple bloodwork panels done to see how you react? That's asinine. This isn't fish oil and creatine. There are some major possible harmful effects from AAS and being lazy or too cheap to pull bloods is silly.

And no I'm not new to AAS forums.

 

[Montego1]

Waaaait a sec bro...when youre talking here about running "high test", you mean test by itself right?

Lol I can agree with that.

The disagreement Im having with the other guy is regarding high test when in combination with other AAS.

I know youve run test as low as 350mg with other compounds. I wouldnt call 350mg "high".

And yeah, I wouldn't run ANYTHING higher then my test dose in any cycle.

 

[Nac]

Unless you're going into a show then yes it's dumb.

The whole goal of this adventure is to build muscle. Nothing does that better then test. Nandralone is a close second but test is king.

So because someone is lazy or cheap, that means that you shouldn't get multiple bloodwork panels done to see how you react? That's asinine. This isn't fish oil and creatine. There are some major possible harmful effects from AAS and being lazy or too cheap to pull bloods is silly.

And no I'm not new to AAS forums.

Lots of generalisations in there, some of which I can agree with.

But:

And yeah, I wouldn't run ANYTHING higher then my test dose in any cycle.

Guy runs a trt dose of test with his 400mg /wk tren ace. Has a great cycle, decent gains, and absolutely no sides. Youre saying "fuk that bro, dumb, you need to increase your test to at least your tren dose. Too bad if this gives you sides and makes you feel like sh1t...its on you to fix those sides by getting bloods and running the appropriate ancilliaries."

Lol cmon man. Saying you have to run test at a certain "ratio" no matter what is bone-headed. The world isnt black and white like that.

 

[Montego1]

Lots of generalisations in there, some of which I can agree with.

But:




Guy runs a trt dose of test with his 400mg /wk tren ace. Has a great cycle, decent gains, and absolutely no sides. Youre saying "fuk that bro, dumb, you need to increase your test to at least your tren dose. Too bad if this gives you sides and makes you feel like sh1t...its on you to fix those sides by getting bloods and running the appropriate ancilliaries."

Lol cmon man. Saying you have to run test at a certain "ratio" no matter what is bone-headed. The world isnt black and white like that.

If you want to run low test and higher tren and miss out on the muscle mass you could actually put during that cycle because you cant dial in your support supps, knock yourself out.

Yes if you cant dial in your ancillaries that's on you.

I never said you HAD to. I said if you don't you're dumb and missing out due to laziness or cheapness. Take your pick.

 

[Montego1]

And tren isn't ideal for bulking either.

I'm sure you'll argue that point as well.

 

[Nac]

Bro, in the context of this discussion its moot to me whether tren is an ideal bulker or not. If someone wants to run tren, and they get great overall results doing so with a trt dose of test, all fukn good as far as Im concerned.

 

[Nac]

If there is anyone reading this who is at least open to the idea that trt doses of test with other AAS may, like, work, the OP in the thread below is a great guide to tren:

Atomini's tren guide

He may not be 240lbs 8% bodyfat, but he knows his science, has extensive experience, and was respected on the boards.

 

[MJW]

Update: gonna kill this mofo... Got caber and arimidex on the way.

 

[MJW]

So most of the gyno has gone away. In just afraid that once I stop the exemestane that ill have rebound again. Should I dose some Clomid or nolva again after stopping the AI?