Andros cycle/TUDCA/Alcohol

ELROCK

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I just started a mild andros cycle. I am about 10 days in on Sup3r-2/Sup3r-4 planned for 6 weeks. I am using Am1macare Pro as my cycle support. It has a low dose 200 mg of TUDCA in it. The wife and I tend to have 1-2 drinks in the evenings after we put the baby to bed. This is usually our time to relax and be together as we both lead stressful careers. I would say 4 nights per week we do this. My question is since I take the TUDCA before I consume the alcohol (which supposedly you should not do) do you think this will accelerate liver damage? Even if the alcohol content is so low and the TUDCA dose is so low also? I know the andros are very mild on the liver, but maybe I am making things worse with the addition of TUDCA. I have everything on hand that is in Amimacare Pro besides the TUDCA so maybe taking everything in it minus the TUDCA might be better in my situation?

I get bloodwork done regular and my LFTS always come back within normal ranges. I have done few test only cycles and a few SARM cycles (osta & LGD) in the past and never had any issues. This is my first PH cycle though so I am a little more concerned about the combination now. What you guys think?
 
Nickespo89

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Neither of those compounds are methylated. They are pretty liver safe. You should be fine even without liver care technically speaking. However props to you for going the extra mile to keep it safe. Besides the arimistane in the on cycle is good for lowering cortisol.
 
Smont

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I just started a mild andros cycle. I am about 10 days in on Sup3r-2/Sup3r-4 planned for 6 weeks. I am using Am1macare Pro as my cycle support. It has a low dose 200 mg of TUDCA in it. The wife and I tend to have 1-2 drinks in the evenings after we put the baby to bed. This is usually our time to relax and be together as we both lead stressful careers. I would say 4 nights per week we do this. My question is since I take the TUDCA before I consume the alcohol (which supposedly you should not do) do you think this will accelerate liver damage? Even if the alcohol content is so low and the TUDCA dose is so low also? I know the andros are very mild on the liver, but maybe I am making things worse with the addition of TUDCA. I have everything on hand that is in Amimacare Pro besides the TUDCA so maybe taking everything in it minus the TUDCA might be better in my situation?

I get bloodwork done regular and my LFTS always come back within normal ranges. I have done few test only cycles in the past and never had any issues. This is my first PH cycle though so I am a little more concerned about the combination now. What you guys think?
One or 2 drinks is fine. I know guys that party every weekend on dbol and anadrol, im not recommending it but there alive so i cant see some andros putting you at risk
 

Ag99

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You're probably fine, but if it were me I'd just drop the ACP, especially since it's not necessary for your cycle anyway. Then just run the solo supps you have that make up ACP...
 
Smont

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You're probably fine, but if it were me I'd just drop the ACP, especially since it's not necessary for your cycle anyway. Then just run the solo supps you have that make up ACP...
What?
 
Smont

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Hes got a good all in 1 support supplement, what sense would it make to stop taking it just to take them all individual
 

Ag99

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Op said he takes the tudca before consuming alcohol, which should be avoided as it can be damaging. Might not be a huge deal in this specific case, but I'd probably avoid it myself...
 
Smont

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Op said he takes the tudca before consuming alcohol, which should be avoided as it can be damaging. Might not be a huge deal in this specific case, but I'd probably avoid it myself...
Tudca will help protect your liver from the alcohol, im not sure what your getting at
 
rascal14

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I wouldn't worry about it. You're on plenty of cycle support and Andros are mild.
 

Ag99

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Tudca will help protect your liver from the alcohol, im not sure what your getting at

Can't find the study right now, but it has to do with the timing. Should not be taken before (also taking into account the half life) consuming alcohol.
 

uprightrows

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Tudca will help protect your liver from the alcohol, im not sure what your getting at
Tudca is used (among other things) for mitigating and even helping the process of repairing certain types liver damage in alcoholics/people with alcohol related liver damage AFTER they stop drinking. It will not protect your liver from alcohol and it is EXTREMELY dangerous to pre-load it or take it before a period of excessive drinking, especially if you already have a compromised liver (trust, I'm an alcoholic, luckily my liver is intact).

No one on should take tudca and think that it is a green light to go drink, it actually makes it significantly more dangerous, and another reason not to drink heavily on any cycle that requires tudca (as if you needed another reason if you are taking a compound harsh enough to warrant the use of liver support). OP, 200mg and one drink is not going to kill you or probably have any negative ramifications, just don't go downing a fifth lol. Actually given the cycle you're taking you probably shouldn't be taking tudca at all, but probably already know that
 

Ag99

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I wouldn't worry about it. You're on plenty of cycle support and Andros are mild.
Agreed, given the cycle isn't methylated, the low dose of tudca, and the low amount of alcohol consumption. I just tend to take a very conservative approach...
 
Smont

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Tudca is used (among other things) for mitigating and even helping the process of repairing certain types liver damage in alcoholics/people with alcohol related liver damage AFTER they stop drinking. It will not protect your liver from alcohol and it is EXTREMELY dangerous to pre-load it or take it before a period of excessive drinking, especially if you already have a compromised liver (trust, I'm an alcoholic, luckily my liver is intact).

No one on should take tudca and think that it is a green light to go drink, it actually makes it significantly more dangerous, and another reason not to drink heavily on any cycle that requires tudca (as if you needed another reason if you are taking a compound harsh enough to warrant the use of liver support). OP, 200mg and one drink is not going to kill you or probably have any negative ramifications, just don't go downing a fifth lol. Actually given the cycle you're taking you probably shouldn't be taking tudca at all, but probably already know that
Were not talking about excessive drinking were talking about 1 or 2 drinks here n there, hel be fine
 
Smont

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Also no1 said taking it is a green light to drink. Every1 takes threads that ask 1 simple question and blow it up into a million different things all the time.
 
Smont

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Serious question. Y would tudca be dangerous with alcohol?
 

uprightrows

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Mainly because it severely exacerbates the damage caused by excessive alcohol when administered prior to consumption. I'll try and dig up some pubmeds for you when I'm finished eating, I'm not 100% sure on this but I think I remember it having to do with the negatively affecting the acetaldehyde dehydrogenase enzyme pathway and possibly some other metabolic pathways and some how increasing oxidation damage to heptatocytes and liver stress. If they give you Tudca or Udca in a medical setting, they do their damnedest to make sure you do not drink afterward. Again, A drink is fine, we are talking excessive consumption here and often in people whose livers are not in the best shape to begin with. Also Tudca is used mainly for acute treatment in bilary conditions, IE cholestasis, which is a great precaution for PH/AAS, but a lot of alcohol related damage is not really caused by cholestasis, so there is rarely a good reason to take it with alcohol anyway. Interesting side note, there is promising new research that tudca might be very effective in promoting neuroproctive factors in people with traumatic brain injuries and potentially other degenerative brain disorders.
 
Smont

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I take nac all the time year round but i usually take extra around times when i know im gonna do some partying. Hopefully i havnt been doing extra damage. Nothing bad has ever came of it. Now i gotta do some extra googling
 
rascal14

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I can't remember exactly, but I've always seen that's TUDCA after drinking makes it worse, but taking it before is good. It may be the opposite, I don't remember.
 
ELROCK

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I take nac all the time year round but i usually take extra around times when i know im gonna do some partying. Hopefully i havnt been doing extra damage. Nothing bad has ever came of it. Now i gotta do some extra googling
If I remember correctly NAC is safe to dose like that. It's just the TUDCA that has the negative effect before drinking.
 
ELROCK

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Were not talking about excessive drinking were talking about 1 or 2 drinks here n there, hel be fine
We're only talking 1-2 drinks basically every other night sometimes on consecutive nights though. The alcohol is usually red wine or some sorta stout beer, but lately I have been enjoying IPAs.
 
Ricky10

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Can't find the study right now, but it has to do with the timing. Should not be taken before (also taking into account the half life) consuming alcohol.
Exactly, I thought this was pretty well known and stated on most of the bottles.
 
ELROCK

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It just would really suck if my cycle support winds up causing more harm then good.
 

uprightrows

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Smont NAC is fine year round, drinking or not, I do the same thing (along with genetics, might be the reason my liver is still so functional)
ELROCK, you'll be fine bro, it's a low dose (people often take 750mg-1g for support, and even more can be used in a medical context) and if you keep it at 1 or 2 drinks a couple times a week you'll be ok.
 
ELROCK

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Another questions, has anyone run Sup3r-2 before?
 

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When you guys are referring to "before drinking", how much time are we talking? That morning, an hour or two before? I'm in a similar scenario but not sure when to dose the Tudca on the couple of Saturday's I'd indulge in a few
 
Sparkss

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Another questions, has anyone run Sup3r-2 before?
I am roughly 7 weeks into an 8 week run. It really kicked in for me around week 6. I should add that I am also on doctor administered TRT, so YMMV. I use NAC and Policosanol for on cycle support (just to be safe, I already know it tanked my lipids/cholesterol). I read somewhere that Tudca is damaging if taking too much, or when not needed, as it causes over production of bile, which is damaging to a liver that doesn't need it (if I recalled the article correctly).
 
ELROCK

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I am roughly 7 weeks into an 8 week run. It really kicked in for me around week 6. I should add that I am also on doctor administered TRT, so YMMV. I use NAC and Policosanol for on cycle support (just to be safe, I already know it tanked my lipids/cholesterol). I read somewhere that Tudca is damaging if taking too much, or when not needed, as it causes over production of bile, which is damaging to a liver that doesn't need it (if I recalled the article correctly).
I only plan on running it for 6 weeks so that's not good news for me that it takes that long to really notice it. I noticed slight strength, slightly harder muscles and slight increase in aggression (in and out of gym). I started noticing these effect in the 2nd week.

How have your results been?

Keep us posted with you run!
 
Sparkss

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I was already taking Orig1n when I started Sup3r-2, so that may have masked some of the benefits (like increased glycogen stores, etc.). I started to see strength and energy increases about a week or two ago. I recorded all of it in my workout log (in my signature) but I did not create a dedicated log just for the Sup3r-2 run, sorry :(. I like it and next time I plan to run it longer and stack a few other items with it. Since I am not worried about being shutdown (the TRT technically has me perpetually shut down) I was thinking of maybe adding another bottle to my run, to make it 12 weeks, since I only just started seeing the benefits. I am currently running the regular dosage (1 pill in the morning, 1 before lunch). I will be doing a blood work right after I finish my run, as I am due for one for my doctor. So I will be able to assess the affect on things like lipids, etc, which I already know took a hit (I had labs done a couple of weeks back, just CBC, CMP, lipid panel). I started taking policosanol at that time and it seemed to help how I felt.

P.S. I stocked up on the Sup3r-2 when they had their clearance sale, so I have a "few" bottles stashed away :).

EDIT: I do have #s, like weight, waist circumference, and what not. I sort of shifted gears from a bulk to a recomp (after the bulk kind of got away from me). But I am not sure I trust the #s as I see more with the strength increases and more in the mirror than I do on the scale or even the tape measure.
 
ELROCK

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You mind throwing a link up for your log? I am on my phone. Or the thread name so I can search for it. Would like to follow along.
 
Sparkss

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http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/281831-sparkss-journey-recovery.html

I started Sup3r-2 around Christmas time, but again the strength increases kicked in a couple of weeks ago. I was on HST so my weights were going up anyways, but I could feel the strength overall. I also saw an energy boost from Endur3+ EAA intra last week, but it may have been partially due to the Sup3r-2 (but it matched up more so on my timeline with Endur3+)
 
ELROCK

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http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/281831-sparkss-journey-recovery.html

I started Sup3r-2 around Christmas time, but again the strength increases kicked in a couple of weeks ago. I was on HST so my weights were going up anyways, but I could feel the strength overall. I also saw an energy boost from Endur3+ EAA intra last week, but it may have been partially due to the Sup3r-2 (but it matched up more so on my timeline with Endur3+)
You think your Endur3+ is over shining the strength gains from the Sup3r-2 LOL..... Nah man that's the PH your on!

Edit: Never mind I see what your saying now (I think). You are saying you feel the ENERGY from the Endu3r+. Is that what you are referring to?
 
Sparkss

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You think your Endur3+ is over shining the strength gains from the Sup3r-2 LOL..... Nah man that's the PH your on!

Edit: Never mind I see what your saying now (I think). You are saying you feel the ENERGY from the Endu3r+. Is that what you are referring to?
yes, the energy came on the same day I started using the Endur3+. It does have a carb source in it too, which may help fuel the workouts. The strength was there before, and I definitely equate that to the PH, but the energy really helped me to power through the last few workouts in near record time (for me). Bear in mind that my body is beat all to h*ll (sciatica, bulging discs/lower back issues, blown shoulder/reconstructive surgery that also re-attached my bicep) And my gym is a corner of my office at home with a small fold up incline bench and a set of power blocks. So there is a fair amount of transition time when I change exercises and have to re-adjust the equipment. So maintaining energy and flow is a challenge, but it makes it that much more obvious when I see an uptick in it :).
 

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