Msten

[Mr_11B]

What type of results could I see from 30mg per day of Methylstenbolone. This will be my first cycle in like a year I've done a few in the past though.

 

[TexasLifter89]

It will make you poop 200 times per day. Look around, plenty of msten feedback throughout the board.

 

[Movin_weight]

Best hormone on the market imo. If done right can transform your physique in 6 weeks

 

[Jebrook]

What type of results could I see from 30mg per day of Methylstenbolone. This will be my first cycle in like a year I've done a few in the past though.

15-20+ lbs of weight gain is pretty common on 4-5 week cycles. Honestly, 20 mg daily would be plenty enough over 4 weeks to gain 15 lbs or more.

 

[netflixNchill]

I agree, run it at 20mg a day and I promise you'll be happy by week 4

 

[Killcure666]

How much of this mass gain is maintainable though?

 

[Movin_weight]

How much of this mass gain is maintainable though?

Depends where you are at naturally and previous hormone experience. Expect half or more of the weight gain to be from glycogen/water that will dissipate within a month or two.

People that claim to keep all 20lbs after a 4-week cycle are most likely just adding fat throughout pct to offset the loss of Glyco storage.

 

[netflixNchill]

Yea, ideally expect to gain a pound of muscle a week. Maybe a tad more

 

[Mr_11B]

Yea, ideally expect to gain a pound of muscle a week. Maybe a tad more

So you suggest I run it at 20 mg per day instead of 30 ?

 

[2kvette]

agreed on the 20mg a day

 

[AnabolicGuru]

10-20lbs; it's really user dependent. My strength went up dramatically on it

 

[sinewave3]

Make sure you have your cycle supports in order and if you are still feeling good at 20 mg after 4 weeks you might be able to go 6 total.

 

[Ganjamon]

I am going into week 6 of my current blast and this is my first time using msten
I'm stacking the msten with Test E and EQ

Test E 350-500 mg a week (18 weeks)
EQ 750 mg a week (18 weeks)
Lgi Msten 10 (weeks 2-7)

My strength and endurance are slowly rising but nothing mind blowing though! I'm definitely looking more full and vascular which is nice. The worst side by far has been the ****ING LETHARGY. It's been pretty terrible the last ten days. I also already have back pumps which have been at there worst when snowboarding instead of the gym. I am up 8lbs so far and I'm looking better than I feel!
The test E is not helping with the lethargy.
I will be adding 75 mg of oral trestolone starting tomorrow. Hopefully it helps!

 

[Choppedjunior]

i think i ended up keeping 5lbs. ran up to 30mg alongside 75mg of transdermal trest. I think i gained 15lbs total, but yeah lost a lot PCT.

 

[Ganjamon]

Thats it for me! I am 22days in and I can't handle feeling like death anymore.
It's a shame because I'm up 9 lbs and looking swole and vascular as hell but
I feel like I am hungover 24 -7.

 

[goodvibes]

Thats it for me! I am 22days in and I can't handle feeling like death anymore.
It's a shame because I'm up 9 lbs and looking swole and vascular as hell but
I feel like I am hungover 24 -7.

You were complaining about lethargy and you're on test e.. what cycle supports were you running and most likely you're liver cannot handle it or your BP is off the charts. Either way it's good you stop early if you don't have the right supports or you have too many sides

 

[Ganjamon]

You were complaining about lethargy and you're on test e.. what cycle supports were you running and most likely you're liver cannot handle it or your BP is off the charts. Either way it's good you stop early if you don't have the right supports or you have too many sides

I was running Ar1mcare pro, taurine. I am not sold on support supps anyway, as they are completely unproven and discontinued use of the di-methyl is the only real solution to remedy any liver of BP issuing. I have not been drinking at all!! My liver is good and BP has been in check. I have been fighting off a chest and sinus cold which has seemed to linger around longer since starting the msten. I think my immune system has taken the biggest hit!! It's probably best to come off anyway at 22 days in. I will continue on with my cycle as planned.
Test E @ 350 mg week
EQ @ 750 mg week
Trest 50 mg oral pre workout

I am thinking about adding some Mast P and Mast E for the final 10 weeks as well.
I would prefer 800 mg of primo but it's so pricey.

 

[LAH813]

I ran it at 30mg a day and gained 14lbs of mass eating only about 2800-3000 cals a day. Got strong as hell.
Had some nasty blood pressure sides tho. Felt like my eyeballs were gonna pop out of my head

 

[goodvibes]

I was running Ar1mcare pro, taurine. I am not sold on support supps anyway, as they are completely unproven and discontinued use of the di-methyl is the only real solution to remedy any liver of BP issuing. I have not been drinking at all!! My liver is good and BP has been in check. I have been fighting off a chest and sinus cold which has seemed to linger around longer since starting the msten. I think my immune system has taken the biggest hit!! It's probably best to come off anyway at 22 days in. I will continue on with my cycle as planned.
Test E @ 350 mg week
EQ @ 750 mg week
Trest 50 mg oral pre workout

I am thinking about adding some Mast P and Mast E for the final 10 weeks as well.
I would prefer 800 mg of primo but it's so pricey.

Arimacare pro is not strong enough for 30mg of msten if you're feeling lethargic. How'd you know your liver is fine?

 

[Ganjamon]

Arimacare pro is not strong enough for 30mg of msten if you're feeling lethargic. How'd you know your liver is fine?

I have only been running 20 mg of msten and for 22 days.
I don't know what my liver values are as of right now. I am planning on mid cycle bloods but that won't be for another few weeks. You do realize that tudca does not prevent or protect you from methyl's.
The ONLY WAY is to stop taking them all together. Tudca has been used for treating ALREADY damaged livers though that are NO LONGER BEING EXPOSED TO ANY SORT IF TOXIC AGENT.

What would you suggest Brother.

 

[Choppedjunior]

I would say you'll gains 10-15 lbs. end up keeping around 5lbs or so. Did it twice around there were my end results. I have four bottles left not even sure I'll use as I'm seeing the same effects with Sarms and much safer I believe.

 

[ChocolateClen]

Theoretically speaking, if someone ran a **** ton of TUDCA and liver support. What's keeping them for running it more than 4-6 weeks?

 

[georgetown]

I would say you'll gains 10-15 lbs. end up keeping around 5lbs or so. Did it twice around there were my end results. I have four bottles left not even sure I'll use as I'm seeing the same effects with Sarms and much safer I believe.

What sarms are you referring to? LGD?

 

[Choppedjunior]

Yeah I just finished my LGD cycle of 6 weeks to try it out. I feel fuller. Lost a good amount of bf% and gained some lean lbs. not sure how much haven't done my body comp yet. Probably will next week. If I gained even 3 lean lbs to me it's better. So in maybe 12 week cycle could gain 6lbs with minimal sides if any. And I was gonna try OL Mass GH which is lgd and mk, and maybe add in a transdermal trest around week 6-12. That's just me also. I've read some have run lgd and rad and gained like 10lbs over 12 weeks. In addition since shorter pct and shorter time between cycles can run more in shorter time. Theoretically.

 

[Movin_weight]

Arimacare pro is not strong enough for 30mg of msten if you're feeling lethargic. How'd you know your liver is fine?

Lethargy from msten is not from liver stress... I've had blood work taken 2 weeks in with no elevation in enzymes. However my lipids were already trashed, and non-fasting blood sugar was in the 80's.

It's just highly selective and extremely anabolic. The nutrient shuttling and glycogen storing effects of this hormone are what I attribute the lethargy to. Along with a drop in immune system function and the overall taxing effect of muscle hypertrophy and tissue repair from increasingly intense workouts.

Try increasing your clean calorie intake and if your not gaining much weight, bc a calorie deficit will definitely increase lethargy.

I can run a 6-700mg of test for weeks and after 3-4 days on only 10mg of msten I am noticeably harder, more full, and start gaining weight.

 

[Choppedjunior]

I ran Msten 20 and my liver enzymes went pretty high and I was running transdermal trest 50mg and had to up it to 75 and still felt like **** so called the cycle off at 7 weeks. Was gonna do 8

 

[goodvibes]

Lethargy from msten is not from liver stress... I've had blood work taken 2 weeks in with no elevation in enzymes. However my lipids were already trashed, and non-fasting blood sugar was in the 80's.

It's just highly selective and extremely anabolic. The nutrient shuttling and glycogen storing effects of this hormone are what I attribute the lethargy to. Along with a drop in immune system function and the overall taxing effect of muscle hypertrophy and tissue repair from increasingly intense workouts.

Try increasing your clean calorie intake and if your not gaining much weight, bc a calorie deficit will definitely increase lethargy.

I can run a 6-700mg of test for weeks and after 3-4 days on only 10mg of msten I am noticeably harder, more full, and start gaining weight.

You're basing everything from your experience and that msten doesn't elevate liver enzymes. I don't even know where to start with you.

 

[goodvibes]

I have only been running 20 mg of msten and for 22 days.
I don't know what my liver values are as of right now. I am planning on mid cycle bloods but that won't be for another few weeks. You do realize that tudca does not prevent or protect you from methyl's.
The ONLY WAY is to stop taking them all together. Tudca has been used for treating ALREADY damaged livers though that are NO LONGER BEING EXPOSED TO ANY SORT IF TOXIC AGENT.

What would you suggest Brother.

Lots of study that it treats cholestatis but I haven't come across a study showing it will not help a liver that's exposed to toxic agent like our methyls.

 

[2kvette]

I have only been running 20 mg of msten and for 22 days.
I don't know what my liver values are as of right now. I am planning on mid cycle bloods but that won't be for another few weeks. You do realize that tudca does not prevent or protect you from methyl's.
The ONLY WAY is to stop taking them all together. Tudca has been used for treating ALREADY damaged livers though that are NO LONGER BEING EXPOSED TO ANY SORT IF TOXIC AGENT.

What would you suggest Brother.

uhm, yea. I am in pharmacy school, and thats definately not true at all. liver damage from oral steroids comes from cholestasis, which tudca prevents and treats.

 

[Ganjamon]

uhm, yea. I am in pharmacy school, and thats definately not true at all. liver damage from oral steroids comes from cholestasis, which tudca prevents and treats.

IT DOES NOT PREVENT CHOLESTASIS!
Can you show me one human study that states that it prevents liver damage.
Dude this is not the only board that visit.
I have spoken with doctors about this and there are no human studies.
On most other boards especially uncensored AAS boards with dudes that have been running heavy amounts of gear longer than you have probably been alive. They never have and never will run cycle support. The doctors on these boards will tell you that it's all herbal rubbish.
But I still ran it anyway for piece of mind and for the "it can't hurt" factor.
Tudca can be helpful once all toxic agents have been stoped and have cleared your body, but to what amount is still debatable.

 

[Movin_weight]

You're basing everything from your experience and that msten doesn't elevate liver enzymes. I don't even know where to start with you.

No my point was that I was experiencing fatigue absent of my liver enzymes being elevated.

 

[Movin_weight]

You're basing everything from your experience and that msten doesn't elevate liver enzymes. I don't even know where to start with you.

What makes you so confident that fatigue comes from liver stress? Do you have any experience with injectables, peptides, or hgh? Blood sugar fluctuations and other metabolic inconsistencies are way more likely to cause fatigue than the most resilient organ in the human body.

 

[Movin_weight]

IT DOES NOT PREVENT CHOLESTASIS!
Can you show me one human study that states that it prevents liver damage.
Dude this is not the only board that visit.
I have spoken with doctors about this and there are no human studies.
On most other boards especially uncensored AAS boards with dudes that have been running heavy amounts of gear longer than you have probably been alive. They never have and never will run cycle support. The doctors on these boards will tell you that it's all herbal rubbish.
But I still ran it anyway for piece of mind and for the "it can't hurt" factor.
Tudca can be helpful once all toxic agents have been stoped and have cleared your body, but to what amount is still debatable.

Completely true 100%.... medically onserved bodybuilders are not taking this garbage during cycles because it does nothing. Just because enzymes are elevated for a short period of time does not mean damage is being done, just that stress is being endured. That's why most will limit the time they are consuming strong orals.

I've ran oral cycles for 10-12 weeks and bloods were completely normal within 3-4 weeks of stopping.

 

[ChocolateClen]

Completely true 100%.... medically onserved bodybuilders are not taking this garbage during cycles because it does nothing. Just because enzymes are elevated for a short period of time does not mean damage is being done, just that stress is being endured. That's why most will limit the time they are consuming strong orals.

I've ran oral cycles for 10-12 weeks and bloods were completely normal within 3-4 weeks of stopping.

I agree to a point. I ran it first with no supps and felt like ass. 2nd time with on cycle felt fine. Problem here is I was sick the first time AND my diet wasn't the greatest so who know if that's why I felt like ass or if elevated enzymes also played a roll. There's so many variables you can't difinitvly say that X causes Y without proof of it

 

[2kvette]

IT DOES NOT PREVENT CHOLESTASIS!
Can you show me one human study that states that it prevents liver damage.
Dude this is not the only board that visit.
I have spoken with doctors about this and there are no human studies.
On most other boards especially uncensored AAS boards with dudes that have been running heavy amounts of gear longer than you have probably been alive. They never have and never will run cycle support. The doctors on these boards will tell you that it's all herbal rubbish.
But I still ran it anyway for piece of mind and for the "it can't hurt" factor.
Tudca can be helpful once all toxic agents have been stoped and have cleared your body, but to what amount is still debatable.

Yea, don't go around telling people this stupid sh1t. I'll be a doctor in two years too, so here's some sound medical advice. Stop listening to whoever is telling you this on other boards. They're wrong, flat out, 110% wrong. I give people NAC and UDCA all the time for drug induced cholestasis. And TUDCA has been shown to be marginally better than UDCA in treatment.

I have been on gear a long ass time. Nearly a decade of experience there, and I have my own bloodworm in the middle of a cycle with and without TUDCA.

So here's ur human studies; you must not have dug too hard to find a single one, cuz there are a million of them.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9840118/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9146783/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8674405/

Really is no debate on this; if you can't see it, ur a lost cause.

 

[2kvette]

Lethargy from msten is not from liver stress... I've had blood work taken 2 weeks in with no elevation in enzymes. However my lipids were already trashed, and non-fasting blood sugar was in the 80's.

It's just highly selective and extremely anabolic. The nutrient shuttling and glycogen storing effects of this hormone are what I attribute the lethargy to. Along with a drop in immune system function and the overall taxing effect of muscle hypertrophy and tissue repair from increasingly intense workouts.

Try increasing your clean calorie intake and if your not gaining much weight, bc a calorie deficit will definitely increase lethargy.

I can run a 6-700mg of test for weeks and after 3-4 days on only 10mg of msten I am noticeably harder, more full, and start gaining weight.

The liver stress is from cholestasis, initially you won't have any elevated liver enzymes. Bile is toxic, as the biliary ducts become cholestatic, the bile begins to get backed up in the liver. This causes inflammation to build up in hepatocytes, inducing a state called cholestatic hepatitis. The liver cells then undergo apoptosis, causing the enzymes to spill over into the blood. Eventually enough of them burst to leak so much bile it stains the skin and eyes yellow, aka jaundice.

All in all, the elevated liver enzymes do not cause lethargy. But cholestasis does.

 

[Ganjamon]

Ok Doctor.
I am not sure what supplement company your shilling for but you did not answer my question. One of those threads is an animal study and the other 2 are are about TREATMENT!! Which I already said tudca and nac have there place in treatment. But when and only when all use or exposer to toxic agents has been discontinued.
Where is there any written about prevention and control of toxic agents.
Your the one giving people the idea that there liver will indestructible by simply running milk thistle, nac or tudca.
That they can run methyl's for 6-8 weeks and drink alcohol and everything will be cool as long as you got that tudca, lol..
Show me a study where any of these show no rise or even better LOWER liver and lipid values during exposure to toxic agents.
Then I will agree with you.
while

 

[goodvibes]

The liver stress is from cholestasis, initially you won't have any elevated liver enzymes. Bile is toxic, as the biliary ducts become cholestatic, the bile begins to get backed up in the liver. This causes inflammation to build up in hepatocytes, inducing a state called cholestatic hepatitis. The liver cells then undergo apoptosis, causing the enzymes to spill over into the blood. Eventually enough of them burst to leak so much bile it stains the skin and eyes yellow, aka jaundice.

All in all, the elevated liver enzymes do not cause lethargy. But cholestasis does.

2kvette one of them recommends not taking cycle supports and the other preaches msten doesn't elevate liver enzymes. ?

 

[goodvibes]

What makes you so confident that fatigue comes from liver stress? Do you have any experience with injectables, peptides, or hgh? Blood sugar fluctuations and other metabolic inconsistencies are way more likely to cause fatigue than the most resilient organ in the human body.

Hey mister not everyone is diabetic like you that we have blood sugar fluctuations while on a bulking cycle on msten ?

You're telling me it's a higher probability that I will get blood sugar fluctuations than an elevated liver enzyme while on an msten cycle without supports? Omg I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

[goodvibes]

IT DOES NOT PREVENT CHOLESTASIS!
Can you show me one human study that states that it prevents liver damage.
Dude this is not the only board that visit.
I have spoken with doctors about this and there are no human studies.
On most other boards especially uncensored AAS boards with dudes that have been running heavy amounts of gear longer than you have probably been alive. They never have and never will run cycle support. The doctors on these boards will tell you that it's all herbal rubbish.
But I still ran it anyway for piece of mind and for the "it can't hurt" factor.
Tudca can be helpful once all toxic agents have been stoped and have cleared your body, but to what amount is still debatable.

It doesn't prevent it but it helps you move your bile when it's slowed down due to liver stress from your oral. It's not a prevention it's an aid hence the name cycle "support". Same goes with BP/cardiovascular supps like curcumin, red yeast, fish oil, etc. Doesn't prevent but it will minimize damage. I hope that's a little clearer.

 

[Movin_weight]

Hey mister not everyone is diabetic like you that we have blood sugar fluctuations while on a bulking cycle on msten

You're telling me it's a higher probability that I will get blood sugar fluctuations than an elevated liver enzyme while on an msten cycle without supports? Omg I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Again no... not what I'm saying at all. I'm simply discussing the source of fatigue/lethargy when on msten.... nothing more. Of course methylated orals cause some liver stress and elevate liver enzymes.

My point was There are other more probable causes of fatigue on cycle than liver stress, that was the only point in making.

Everyone suggests that using a testosterone base will improve lethargy correct? If the root cause of lethargy was liver related then what good would a test base do to prevent that?

From my experience, with blood work to support my experience, liver stress is not what dictates lethargy on cycle.

And why would you argue that you don't have fluctuating blood glucose levels when force feeding at a calorie surplus combined with high volume workouts, combined with AAS. Blood glucose fluctuates after any meal regardless. AAS have profound effects on glucose uptake, insulin sensitivity, and a number of other related factors. Apparently my post was clear so hope that makes more sense.

 

[goodvibes]

Again no... not what I'm saying at all. I'm simply discussing the source of fatigue/lethargy when on msten.... nothing more. Of course methylated orals cause some liver stress and elevate liver enzymes.

My point was There are other more probable causes of fatigue on cycle than liver stress, that was the only point in making.

Everyone suggests that using a testosterone base will improve lethargy correct? If the root cause of lethargy was liver related then what good would a test base do to prevent that?

From my experience, with blood work to support my experience, liver stress is not what dictates lethargy on cycle.

And why would you argue that you don't have fluctuating blood glucose levels when force feeding at a calorie surplus combined with high volume workouts, combined with AAS. Blood glucose fluctuates after any meal regardless. AAS have profound effects on glucose uptake, insulin sensitivity, and a number of other related factors. Apparently my post was clear so hope that makes more sense.

I didn't say that was the cause, I stated that it was highly probable it was liver stress since the guy was on test e so you can cross out test base problems there. He didn't run blood work so he has no idea what's going on.

If I ask you to list the cause of lethargy from taking msten how would you enumerate it starting from highest probability to the lowest?

 

[2kvette]

2kvette one of them recommends not taking cycle supports and the other preaches msten doesn't elevate liver enzymes.

What do you mean?

 

[2kvette]

Ok Doctor.
I am not sure what supplement company your shilling for but you did not answer my question. One of those threads is an animal study and the other 2 are are about TREATMENT!! Which I already said tudca and nac have there place in treatment. But when and only when all use or exposer to toxic agents has been discontinued.
Where is there any written about prevention and control of toxic agents.
Your the one giving people the idea that there liver will indestructible by simply running milk thistle, nac or tudca.
That they can run methyl's for 6-8 weeks and drink alcohol and everything will be cool as long as you got that tudca, lol..
Show me a study where any of these show no rise or even better LOWER liver and lipid values during exposure to toxic agents.
Then I will agree with you.
while

Your misunderstanding, while taking something liver toxic NAC and TUDCA/UDCA will minimize the rise of enzymes secondary to the bile build up due to cholestasis. This makes an enormous difference in the stress on the liver when you do and don't take it. The length of time and dosage people take of hepatotoxic drugs changes dramatically from patient to patient. Statins are very hepatotoxic so we always adjust the dose based on each patients liver values. This is everyday medicine in the United States.
Prophylactic treatment does nothing, cohabilatove treatment works, post treatment works. The best studies around to demonstrate this are on alcohol, which is worse than most steroids in my opinion. I can link those if you so desire.

 

[goodvibes]

What do you mean?

Oh I was just referring to the other two who were going against your words.

Love your post btw. Couldn't have said that better

 

[2kvette]

Oh I was just referring to the other two who were going against your words.

Love your post btw. Couldn't have said that better

Ohh, now I get it! Yea, I really don't believe I am reading this. People like this is are the source of all the liver toxicity case studies in the primary literature. Cuz when you look at the approved NDA for a lot of these drugs, the liver enzyme increases are marginal and transient; so the FDA approved them as safe at the recommended dosage and duration. Then someone hears online that they took dbol for 12 weeks straight and lived, so they do it too. 8 weeks later they're p1ssing motor oil and sh1tting so white it looks like toothpaste. But the other guy did it!! Well, the other guy doesn't have your hepatic physiology.

 

[Movin_weight]

Posted earlier

 

[Movin_weight]

Ohh, now I get it! Yea, I really don't believe I am reading this. People like this is are the source of all the liver toxicity case studies in the primary literature. Cuz when you look at the approved NDA for a lot of these drugs, the liver enzyme increases are marginal and transient; so the FDA approved them as safe at the recommended dosage and duration. Then someone hears online that they took dbol for 12 weeks straight and lived, so they do it too. 8 weeks later they're p1ssing motor oil and sh1tting so white it looks like toothpaste. But the other guy did it!! Well, the other guy doesn't have your hepatic physiology.

Yeah never stated that methylated oral AAS do not cause liver distress lol.

Point was that my experience has been that lethargy is independent of elevated liver enzymes....I've had bloods show zero elevation when I'm symptomatic of lethargy and visa versa.

Everyone is so quick to respond and roast without actually reading carefully.

 

[Movin_weight]

I didn't say that was the cause, I stated that it was highly probable it was liver stress since the guy was on test e so you can cross out test base problems there. He didn't run blood work so he has no idea what's going on.

If I ask you to list the cause of lethargy from taking msten how would you enumerate it starting from highest probability to the lowest?

In no particular order I would say diet, hormonal changes, blood sugar regulation, lifestyle, training, sleep patterns and a host of other things have more effect than liver stress after a week or 2 on an oral.

I've had some whacked out liver enzymes with zero symptoms of fatigue or lethargy

I mean what's the first thing people do when they start a cycle? Pound calories and train harder..... Just saying

 

[2kvette]

Yeah never stated that methylated oral AAS do not cause liver distress lol.

Point was that my experience has been that lethargy is independent of elevated liver enzymes....I've had bloods show zero elevation when I'm symptomatic of lethargy and visa versa.

Everyone is so quick to respond and roast without actually reading carefully.

It is not elevated enzymes that cause lethargy.