Stacking Vs. More Test

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    Stacking Vs. More Test


    If anyone has experience with both higher dose test only cycles and more typical cycles with 3 or so drugs I'd like to hear your opinion on which worked out better, pro's con's etc...I know stacking is the most common way to do cycles but it doesn't seem like there should be any chemical reasons for test to become less effective on its own vs lower doses of multiple drugs.
    I know it is hard to say how many mg of Deca or D-bol = X amount of test but I wonder if increasing test might yeild similar anabolic effects for less money and simplicity (and lets not incluse tren) I don't compete either so I really don't have a need to use different sets of drugs for offseason and cutting. Jus wonderin if anyone thinks this route might be a better choice for the more casual user, or am I just crazy.

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    Duchaine's theory of post-mediated growth

    this may help ya a little. i'm still wondering about this myself and contemplating a future cycle with test solo at 2grams/wk.
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    9 times out of 10, adding an oral to test makes it better. There are 2 different pathways, creatine synthesis and protein synthesis. Just adding more test will not do the same thing.
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    Dr. D, as usual, you are exactly right in regards to oral steroid use. For example, most like to stack test with another anabolic (typically deca or eq) and an oral. However, wouldn't just using more test itself along with an oral be just as effective as stacking? Or does the law of dimensioning returns come into play?
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    Quote Originally Posted by XxCrisisxX
    Dr. D, as usual, you are exactly right in regards to oral steroid use. For example, most like to stack test with another anabolic (typically deca or eq) and an oral. However, wouldn't just using more test itself along with an oral be just as effective as stacking? Or does the law of dimensioning returns come into play?
    Yeah, diminishing returns occurs within 2-4 weeks of onset of any androgen use, it can't be avoided but can be combated by increasing doses, at least for awhile. The main advantage in stacking injectables is just to avoid the sides of increasing doses of test, but it is a matter of common experience that adding a different androgen midcycle can improve stale gains. So it's not as simple as it seems. On long cycles, I suggest stacking and orals should be rotated too with a brief pause inbetween.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Yeah, diminishing returns occurs within 2-4 weeks of onset of any androgen use, it can't be avoided but can be combated by increasing doses, at least for awhile. The main advantage in stacking injectables is just to avoid the sides of increasing doses of test, but it is a matter of common experience that adding a different androgen midcycle can improve stale gains. So it's not as simple as it seems. On long cycles, I suggest stacking and orals should be rotated too with a brief pause inbetween.
    If during a long cycle you wanted to use the same oral twice, how much space in between to make the second go round worth while? Or should the same oral not be used at all?
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    Rotating orals seems like a wise choice to make, but I always worry about lipids so I tend to shy away from them (although having superdrol and some oxandrolone in a cycle would be friggin sweet). So, perhaps upping the test dose mid-cycle would kick-start gains again? Or should i simply add another androgen (NPP maybe)? Thanx alot Dr. D.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuromancer
    If during a long cycle you wanted to use the same oral twice, how much space in between to make the second go round worth while? Or should the same oral not be used at all?
    I don't know, I've never really tried that, I usually start with one oral and milk it for a month, then break for a week or so and finish with a different oral. I increase the test all the way though and only pyramid the oral back down, or keep the test aroud 600-800mg and start stacking in other stuff like 1T or transdermals after a few weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by XxCrisisxX
    Rotating orals seems like a wise choice to make, but I always worry about lipids so I tend to shy away from them (although having superdrol and some oxandrolone in a cycle would be friggin sweet). So, perhaps upping the test dose mid-cycle would kick-start gains again? Or should i simply add another androgen (NPP maybe)? Thanx alot Dr. D.
    Both approaches would work, you just have to experiment really. Sorry man, guess I really didn't help much after all!
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    I usually start with one oral take a week off then go on another one. Never tried taking the same one twice. I would think it depends on the oral your taking. As Dbol will only do so much then gains will stop. This is why I run phases in my cycles. It keeps my body guessing and I see gains throughout the entire cycle not just in the first 4 weeks.
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    Dr. D, excuse my ignorance, but what is the significance in pyramiding down an oral steroid?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminis
    ...I run phases in my cycles. It keeps my body guessing and I see gains throughout the entire cycle not just in the first 4 weeks.
    Bingo! It's all about phases, even the cycle itself can be viewed as a phase.
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    Quote Originally Posted by XxCrisisxX
    Dr. D, excuse my ignorance, but what is the significance in pyramiding down an oral steroid?
    It lets your body's SHBG and other blood factors adjust and also you are less likely to "crash and burn" during PCT. PCT goes smoother and your less likely to lose gains or get depressed. RBC and immune proteins, clotting factors, CNS neurotransmitters, etc.. don't suddenly shock your system back to normal levels either. You should basically avoid extremes in most cases. Esters usually phase themselves out well enough not to worry about it, but orals are best pyramided in my experience.
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    I'll have to try that next cycle. Thanks Dr. D!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminis
    I usually start with one oral take a week off then go on another one. Never tried taking the same one twice. I would think it depends on the oral your taking. As Dbol will only do so much then gains will stop. This is why I run phases in my cycles. It keeps my body guessing and I see gains throughout the entire cycle not just in the first 4 weeks.
    Interesting. I am planning a test deca dbol to start here fairly soon and I was thinking of frontloading the test and deca, but perhaps along this line of thinking I shouldn't frontload the deca to allow it to kick in its normal time (week 5 or so) so that things are changing even 5 or 6 weeks into the cycle.

    Thanks J
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    oh, and sorry crisis...don't mean to jack your thread..
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    Nueromancer, how about this:

    1-12 Test with frontload
    1-4 Pyramid up the Dbol
    5-10 NPP
    10-14 Start relatively high and pyramid down dbol or another oral.

    That would be a sweet-ass cycle. And you would only have to pin twice a week.
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    I wouldn't do two runs of an oral, I just don't see a point in it. When I come off dbol after using it to kickstart a cycle I don't get any weaker, and for me all the super sweet dbol/anadrol gains come within about two weeks. After that my gains are more "normal" - so why run another oral when I could just run more test/tren.
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    Quote Originally Posted by XxCrisisxX
    Nueromancer, how about this:

    1-12 Test with frontload
    1-4 Pyramid up the Dbol
    5-10 NPP
    10-14 Start relatively high and pyramid down dbol or another oral.

    That would be a sweet-ass cycle. And you would only have to pin twice a week.
    Indeed, I suppose I could brew up some NPP, but I already have the deca brewed

    But then again I am agreeing with ex, after running the oral once I don't think I want to run it again. I just have an abundance of dbol (No you can't have it!! ) and trying to figure if it would be worth while.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    It lets your body's SHBG and other blood factors adjust and also you are less likely to "crash and burn" during PCT. PCT goes smoother and your less likely to lose gains or get depressed. RBC and immune proteins, clotting factors, CNS neurotransmitters, etc.. don't suddenly shock your system back to normal levels either. You should basically avoid extremes in most cases. Esters usually phase themselves out well enough not to worry about it, but orals are best pyramided in my experience.
    I think 3 weeks were a too short period, but when i pyramided SD 10/20/10/0* my recovery has been completely smooth. I know SD is not very suppressing, but still this make me think...

    [*started pct 5 days after]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuromancer
    Interesting. I am planning a test deca dbol to start here fairly soon and I was thinking of frontloading the test and deca, but perhaps along this line of thinking I shouldn't frontload the deca to allow it to kick in its normal time (week 5 or so) so that things are changing even 5 or 6 weeks into the cycle.

    Thanks J
    You could do that or run the deca past the test to enter a predom. anabolic enviro.
  

  
 

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